Looks like I made a mistake....

[gnpenning]

Nice to hear you are doing what you can and have a solid plan going forward. Too many that start these threads don't do anything on their end other than complain.

Best wishes. Keep this updated so others can see how it's done even if everything doesn't go perfect.

 

[rburke65]

This past, late Summer and early Fall, I contracted a company, after seeing his work, having a patio installed. The estimate for the job was $23K. Contract was hand written...” install patio....using this stone, these steps..” hand a hand drawing...I assumed I was going to give him ..?..10% up front. He said ‘no’....you don’t pay me until I’m all done and your happy’. I did do my research on him....I did have to wait for the dryer weather....but he did keep in contact with me... maybe I’m lucky......

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Good luck with this.

 

[383 240z]

Good luck with this.

Thanks buddy

 

[bams50]

Any update?

 

[383 240z]

Any update?

Got some lip service from him over the last couple days. I've not heard from him for a few days. I'm going to try calling him tonight.

 

[383 240z]

Another 2 weeks of nothing from the contractor. I reached out to the local PD. They in turn contacted the DA. They will be filing criminal charges on my behalf.

In the end I've spent $8000 to the contractor. Another $1500 on excavation and $900 on dropping the tree.

For that I have 9 trusses in my side yard, a big flat muddy area in my backyard, and a lot of brush and wood to clean up and split.

My plan at this point is to let the legal system do it's thing. Work as much OT as I can to build my war chest back up, and start building this myself in the spring.

 

[Git]

Sorry to hear that, and I hate so say it -but, what's the crime? Isn't this basically a contract dispute? You even said it in your first post "He took my money and has provided materials"

 

[M-technik-3]

That just blows. Glad to hear that you can work OT to try and recoup some funds.

 

[oldmxracer]

Oh damn, does that **** ! Wish You luck to get something from this scum bag !

 

[Busted Knucles]

Estimate in writing, job paid upon completion.

 

[Tracs]

Am I the only one who thinks that it is ridiculous for the Sheriffs office to be giving out details on the contractor like criminal history, domestic dispute incidents, addresses, brother's suicide? Unless the officer was a friend and relaying the information "on the side".

 

[PhilJohn]

Had a bad experince with an electrician. I contacted his bonding company. He showed up the next day. Hope it works out for you. I remember how I felt. So pissed off I couldnt sleep.

 

[383 240z]

Sorry to hear that, and I hate so say it -but, what's the crime? Isn't this basically a contract dispute? You even said it in your first post "He took my money and has provided materials"

Allegheny Co. (where I live) about 2 years ago changed the law on this. It used to be materials arriving on site was enough to meet the "good faith" criteria. They have since changed the law to read "meaningful labor must be performed" in an attempt to help curb deadbeat contractors who pull exactly what I fell for here. At least that is how it was relayed to my by the sergeant. He said the DA here has a hard on for prosecuting bad contractors.

Am I the only one who thinks that it is ridiculous for the Sheriffs office to be giving out details on the contractor like criminal history, domestic dispute incidents, addresses, brother's suicide? Unless the officer was a friend and relaying the information "on the side".

The information i received was all part of the public record. the local newspapers print stuff as they get it from the police department. Here is an example:

Ravenna

John M. Plavka, 49, last known address on Wayland Road, was charged Monday with fifth-degree felony theft after he allegedly cashed a $5,000 check paid to him for a contracting job without purchasing any materials or starting the work. A warrant was issued for Plavka’s arrest.

I am the real idiot here. I trusted the guy. I didn't background check him. I screwed up. He's a con man and I got conned.

 

[Tracs]

Allegheny Co. (where I live) about 2 years ago changed the law on this. It used to be materials arriving on site was enough to meet the "good faith" criteria. They have since changed the law to read "meaningful labor must be performed" in an attempt to help curb deadbeat contractors who pull exactly what I fell for here. At least that is how it was relayed to my by the sergeant. He said the DA here has a hard on for prosecuting bad contractors.




The information i received was all part of the public record. the local newspapers print stuff as they get it from the police department. Here is an example:

Ravenna

John M. Plavka, 49, last known address on Wayland Road, was charged Monday with fifth-degree felony theft after he allegedly cashed a $5,000 check paid to him for a contracting job without purchasing any materials or starting the work. A warrant was issued for Plavka’s arrest.

I am the real idiot here. I trusted the guy. I didn't background check him. I screwed up. He's a con man and I got conned.

OK. I misunderstood your other post and thought the PD was just giving out information willy-nilly

 

[Git]

Allegheny Co. (where I live) about 2 years ago changed the law on this. It used to be materials arriving on site was enough to meet the "good faith" criteria. They have since changed the law to read "meaningful labor must be performed" in an attempt to help curb deadbeat contractors who pull exactly what I fell for here. At least that is how it was relayed to my by the sergeant. He said the DA here has a hard on for prosecuting bad contractors.
.

That's a win for home owner's - thanks for the info.

 

[b-boy]

Where I am in Niagara County NY, they've started going after guys like this.

They've arrested several serial offenders in the last few years. Most of the contractors arrested had done this type of thing to dozens of people before they got arrested. They've been charged with fraud and grand larceny.

So there is some precedent for involving the police.

 

[jd_1138]

What is it with some contractors? They're gonna throw their contractor's license in the trash heap over a relatively small amount of money. Sure $8k is a lot (to me and OP and most of us), but in the context of a long career of being a contractor, it's chump change.

Unless your state's contractor board lets these arseholes get away with it? That would be awful.

 

[Innovate1]

Something similar happened to me - they showed up but did a lousy job. I withheld final payment but they never fixed it properly. He threatened legal action to collect. A month later his business web page was gone. Did a little digging and he seems to change what he does once people catch on that his work is poor.

Thing is legal action can be a big time sink and expense in most cases. It's often not worth it for a couple thousand dollars. And in most cases you can't collect your legal fees even if you win unless it's stipulated in the contract.

 

[Toolfool]

What is it with some contractors? They're gonna throw their contractor's license in the trash heap over a relatively small amount of money. Sure $8k is a lot (to me and OP and most of us), but in the context of a long career of being a contractor, it's chump change.

Unless your state's contractor board lets these arseholes get away with it? That would be awful.

In some states it's very easy to get a contractor's license, No experience required. Fill out the form, show proof of residence, pay the fee. I've known characters who have had licenses under their name, wife's name, mom's name, MIL's name, cousin's name, etc., in attempts to continuously avoid lawsuits and/or the IRS. Used to drive me nuts that they continued to get work and abuse the system, all the while driving brand-new trucks, living in big houses, enjoying their big boat at their summer lake house.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

You said the guy lives in Alliance, ratdoggy probably has some friends, um, err, aquantance's , that could camp in his yard and plead your case!

 

[383 240z]

Little update. All my files and communications have been turned over.
On 2-19 I got a text telling me that the contractor had "fired me" and was going to send me my money back. Shouted all sorts of expletives at me for having the police contact him and how "he knows his rights"

When I let him know (to the penny) what he owed me, and that I am still pursuing criminal charges he changed his tune. Told me that he expects lumber prices to drop this week, to give him one more week and he will order my lumber no matter what it costs him. I'm not holding my breath on him doing either. His week is up on Monday. That is when I am officially telling him I want the funds, he is done and the authorities will be handling it from here on out.

 

[Sweetcorn]

Little update. All my files and communications have been turned over.
On 2-19 I got a text telling me that the contractor had "fired me" and was going to send me my money back. Shouted all sorts of expletives at me for having the police contact him and how "he knows his rights"

When I let him know (to the penny) what he owed me, and that I am still pursuing criminal charges he changed his tune. Told me that he expects lumber prices to drop this week, to give him one more week and he will order my lumber no matter what it costs him. I'm not holding my breath on him doing either. His week is up on Monday. That is when I am officially telling him I want the funds, he is done and the authorities will be handling it from here on out.

What convinced you to give him that week? I can't see any reason in the world I would have after:
1) dealing with him being non-responsive for so long
2) requiring police involvement
3) him "firing me" and direct some explicative fueled tirade AT me
4) letting him know I'm pursuing criminal charges against him

Nothing good is going to come of this transaction. I know I don't know the whole story, but it sounds like you need to cut ties immediately.

Monday is going roll around and he will give you some line about stuff being ordered, but it won't be...

 

[joey1320]

Little update. All my files and communications have been turned over.
On 2-19 I got a text telling me that the contractor had "fired me" and was going to send me my money back. Shouted all sorts of expletives at me for having the police contact him and how "he knows his rights"

When I let him know (to the penny) what he owed me, and that I am still pursuing criminal charges he changed his tune. Told me that he expects lumber prices to drop this week, to give him one more week and he will order my lumber no matter what it costs him. I'm not holding my breath on him doing either. His week is up on Monday. That is when I am officially telling him I want the funds, he is done and the authorities will be handling it from here on out.

You must really like being yelled at, lied to and taken for a chump.
Why would you give him ANY more time???

 

[boatshoes]

Even if it gets ordered, will it be the quality lumber you expect or even the correct amount? I think it's well past time to ditch this guy

 

[madhatter]

Seems like you're giving him an opportunity to "perform meaningful work on site" so he can skate without reimbursing you. I'd try to get out while you have a chance of getting your money.

 

[383 240z]

What convinced you to give him that week? I can't see any reason in the world I would have after:
1) dealing with him being non-responsive for so long
2) requiring police involvement
3) him "firing me" and direct some explicative fueled tirade AT me
4) letting him know I'm pursuing criminal charges against him

Nothing good is going to come of this transaction. I know I don't know the whole story, but it sounds like you need to cut ties immediately.

Monday is going roll around and he will give you some line about stuff being ordered, but it won't be...

I'm not "giving" him anything. I'm still waiting until the law has an arrest warrant and can extradite him from Ohio. Not much I can really do until then anyway. This way he still thinks that he is winning and I'm playing the chump.

You must really like being yelled at, lied to and taken for a chump.
Why would you give him ANY more time???

See above. I'm just playing along at this point. I'm giving him yet another chance to break a promise. The detective I'm working with says this will only bolster my case.

Even if it gets ordered, will it be the quality lumber you expect or even the correct amount? I think it's well past time to ditch this guy

I've been in contact with the lumberyard he uses. They know that I am to be contacted before ANYTHING gets sent to the site. I work 15 mins away and can leave here pretty much whenever I need to. I can and will inspect any deliveries.

Seems like you're giving him an opportunity to "perform meaningful work on site" so he can skate without reimbursing you. I'd try to get out while you have a chance of getting your money.

Actually I'm hoping that something shows up. I doubt this guy can write a check (that isn't rubber) for $6400, If i get some lumber I'm farther ahead. I don't expect anything to show up. I'm just giving him more rope for him to make a noose.

 

[Fasthotrod]

I'm sorry to hear about the contractor nonsense... nobody should have to put up with that ****.

4" pipe that will carry the power, communications and water.

I'm not trying to tell you your business, and I don't know the Codes in your area, but the NEC doesn't typically allow for electrical to be ran in the same conduit as copper communications or water lines. If you are opening up a trench in the ground, I'd recommend running multiple PVC conduits, each with their own purpose. Unless it's a really long run, the benefit far outweighs the cost.

If you are running fiber optic rather than copper conductors for communications, it might be acceptable to run in the same conduit, but I would worry about the main power conductors damaging the fiber during the pull. In my experience, a separate conduit makes it much easier in that regard, and it you have any damage and need to do another pull, you can easily do that.

For my shop, I ran a 2" PVC conduit for power, and two 3/4" conduits for comms and signal wiring. (if needed) I bought a spool of wet rated CAT 6 for my network connections, but then did more research and found that a lot of people run fiber instead due to lightning strikes. Fiber doesn't seem to care about it, but CAT 6 can take that hit right into your routers/switches on both ends, blowing out your equipment. I'm going to continue forward with what I have for now, but if I run into that in the future I'm going to switch to fiber.

Thank to you for looking out for my brothers and sisters with the Veteran suicide prevention. Are you involved with Mission 22, or another group?

Mark

 

[Sweetcorn]

What convinced you to give him that week? I can't see any reason in the world I would have after:
1) dealing with him being non-responsive for so long
2) requiring police involvement
3) him "firing me" and direct some explicative fueled tirade AT me
4) letting him know I'm pursuing criminal charges against him

Nothing good is going to come of this transaction. I know I don't know the whole story, but it sounds like you need to cut ties immediately.

Monday is going roll around and he will give you some line about stuff being ordered, but it won't be...

I'm not "giving" him anything. I'm still waiting until the law has an arrest warrant and can extradite him from Ohio. Not much I can really do until then anyway. This way he still thinks that he is winning and I'm playing the chump.



See above. I'm just playing along at this point. I'm giving him yet another chance to break a promise. The detective I'm working with says this will only bolster my case.

Just saying...

I'm not looking to dog pile on you about the situation. I've been down similar roads in the past and wish I had acted sooner. I hope it all works out for you, but my experience says it won't.

 

[Git]

When I let him know (to the penny) what he owed me, and that I am still pursuing criminal charges he changed his tune. Told me that he expects lumber prices to drop this week, to give him one more week and he will order my lumber no matter what it costs him. I'm not holding my breath on him doing either. His week is up on Monday. That is when I am officially telling him I want the funds, he is done and the authorities will be handling it from here on out.

In my opinion (take it for what you paid for it) I think this is a wrong move. You should have already terminated the 'contract' or whatever you had in writing to make it perfectly clear that he was fired for non performance. I think if you continue to do business with him, your going to end up disappointed AGAIN.

If he can pay for lumber, then he can also write you a check for the cost of that lumber. Perhaps see about some sort of monthly payments from him until you get your money back or are satisfied with the situation instead of filing charges, and find a decent contractor this time

 

[Pike2350]

I feel for you. I had issues with my contractor on my garage, and now 2 other contractors with communication issues regarding bids that "will be sent today" for the past 2 weeks. Honestly, if I could get more contractors to even come look at the house addition I am trying to build, I'd tell the ones I'm waiting on to pound sand...but alas, contractor's are hard to come by right now.

The garage contractor took threats of reporting him to licensing to get him to respond. I am like you and can put up with a lot as long as there is communication. If you stop responding, or don't let me know what is going on, then I will assume you are shady and up to no good. My framing was over a 2 week ordeal. The hold up was the lumber yard cut the LVL beam 3" too short...but delivered it anyway. I was NEVER told this until I threatened action. The framers would show up for 2 hours one day, 2 hours 3 days later, etc. They finally just stopped showing up. To me, as the homeowner, all the material was there ready to go....but I received no information. After the threats, the contractor informed me of the issue (which I then verified with my measuring tape). Low and behold, the LVL was delivered that same day and framing finished the next 2 days.

The point of this is, too many less than great contractors need a little persuasion to do the right thing, and too many have THE WORST communication skills.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, this whole thread has been an education.

I hope the whole mess becomes a lesson to all of us on the importance of "Due Diligence"

 

[karoc]

Don't criticize the mans decisions that has already been made, I can't imagine having to go through something like this. If a member has little age on them, then I bet most have been taken advantage of one time or another. Lot stress buddy hang in

 

[ezover]

All i can say is thanks for taking one for the team. I will be checking my states laws on contractors and also adding some type of performance language when/if i have a big project.

 

[383 240z]

Thank to you for looking out for my brothers and sisters with the Veteran suicide prevention. Are you involved with Mission 22, or another group?

Mark

Till Valhalla

It might not be the best group out there but I’ve met and helped some amazing people through it.

I also wasn’t clear, I won’t be running water and power in the same conduit, just along the same path/ trench.

 

[jrsulo]

Any updates ?????

 

[383 240z]

Arrest warrant has been issued. 3 class C felony charges. I know I’ll never get the cash back. I just wrote a RFQ that I’m sending to several lumber suppliers. I cleared all the brush over the weekend, the site is ready to build on.

Once I have the quotes back, I’ll set up a rental for the skid loader with an auger attachment and make some holes, lift the trusses and get it under roof.

I have no idea when the POS will be arrested or what will happen afterwards, but I’m moving forward

 

[Ralf11]

You are doing the rest of the public a service. He needs to be put somewhere where he can't cheat people.

 

[DocParker]

I have read this entire thread with the interest only a person looking to hire a contractor would have. First,thank you for documenting the saga so well. Much to be learned from your experience and you demonstrated good character at every turn. I really feel for you and I'm sure others do too. You are correct in your assessment that you are the the one to get this done. I'll bet you get a better job this way,anyhow. Good luck and all the best.

 

[383 240z]

I have read this entire thread with the interest only a person looking to hire a contractor would have. First, thank you for documenting the saga so well. Much to be learned from your experience and you demonstrated good character at every turn. I really feel for you and I'm sure others do too. You are correct in your assessment that you are the the one to get this done. I'll bet you get a better job this way, anyhow. Good luck and all the best.

I mostly wrote this for that reason, to help others see the signs and learn from my experience. I made a few calls, and got a skid steer with an auger attachment scheduled. Lumber quotes are back, I'll be ordering some material here soon. My plan is to get the shell built, and dried in. Then come up with the cash to put the floor in. Hopefully by then I will be able to afford radiant in floor heat