PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I served on a jury trial many years ago for a guy who did just that; wouldn’t recommend that as your best course of action.
Looks like I made a mistake....
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Here is another thank you for telling the whole story so that all of us can learn from your expensive lessons. 
I read it all. THANKS!
I read it all. THANKS!
I'm slowly plugging away at it. I put the header up for the 15' door last night. I have some friends coming over Saturday to put the headers for the trusses up. Hopefully I will be able to lift the trusses up as well. I won't be able to get them set, but at least they will be up.
I've been on 50 hour weeks for just about 10 months straight. Some nights I just don't have it in me to go swing a hammer after work. Thats why i hired a contractor in the first place.
Half-fast eddie
Well-known member
Best of luck on your project.
I'm a little late to the discussion. Am I correct that general contractors in Penn don’t need a license?
I'm a little late to the discussion. Am I correct that general contractors in Penn don’t need a license?
BombShelter
Well-known member
I don't think you mentioned this but I'd be over at small claims court filing a claim. If he doesn't show up you win by default, if he does you'll probably win anyway, at least a partial amount. Go prepared down to the cent, with a full timeline and work done, even if he doesn't show you need evidence and reciepts.
You most likely won't get any money at this time, you need to know where he banks. A friend once sued their roomates and the judge made them go to the bank over lunch and come back with money. You should be able to see where your check was cashed. The process, after you win, usually means going down to the local sheriff's office filling out the correct paperwork and they will try to withdraw from his account whenever you give a go signal. They might do it for free or charge you something like $50 everytime they try.
I was stiffed a similar amount, but it was payroll, I won the case by default. I followed the court's path for getting my money back, it took a few times, the first time the account was empty. I talked to one of the contractor's workers and he let me know they had just finished a big job, I knew he'd be depositing a big check and boom, I cleaned him out.
Criminal court will just put him in jail, you'll need civil court to try to get your money, they might have some restitution but I'd work every angle.
Don't worry about the warrants, I had three guys assult me, it took over two years but two got busted, one for traffic stop and one tried to party in Tijauna; the computer kicked in and they got thrown in the slammer. Those felony warrants stay in the system a long time.....
You most likely won't get any money at this time, you need to know where he banks. A friend once sued their roomates and the judge made them go to the bank over lunch and come back with money. You should be able to see where your check was cashed. The process, after you win, usually means going down to the local sheriff's office filling out the correct paperwork and they will try to withdraw from his account whenever you give a go signal. They might do it for free or charge you something like $50 everytime they try.
I was stiffed a similar amount, but it was payroll, I won the case by default. I followed the court's path for getting my money back, it took a few times, the first time the account was empty. I talked to one of the contractor's workers and he let me know they had just finished a big job, I knew he'd be depositing a big check and boom, I cleaned him out.
Criminal court will just put him in jail, you'll need civil court to try to get your money, they might have some restitution but I'd work every angle.
Don't worry about the warrants, I had three guys assult me, it took over two years but two got busted, one for traffic stop and one tried to party in Tijauna; the computer kicked in and they got thrown in the slammer. Those felony warrants stay in the system a long time.....
The issue with that is he has nothing. I tracked him to a crappy trailer (that he was evicted from). He WAS driving a rusted and busted POS 1/2 ton early 90's Dodge pick up. The banks closed his accounts once they were alerted to the fraud. Total balance was under $40.
If I go the small claims court, yes I will win the judgement, but to what effect? The whole key to this was that I got criminal charges filed. Civil charges are not a matter for the authorities. So nothing will happen since they wont arrest him for non-payment.
Bottom line, if i win the judgement, he wont pay. and nothing will come of it. Now if i can convince the judge to order full restitution, that will carry a penalty for non payment.
reader2580
Well-known member
This guy sounds like a real winner. Locked up in one county and facing charges in two more counties once he is released.
Contractors in PA must be
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Half-fast eddie
Well-known member
acer66
Well-known member
Op, thank you for sharing your story and the way you went after him.
I hope you can close this capital soon, build your garage and enjoy it.
I hope you can close this capital soon, build your garage and enjoy it.
Apparently they have to be registered rather than licensed, I mis-posted. AG still has extensive enforcement capability.
Here is the act that requires contractors to be registered and lists contract requirements and enforcement.
niget2002
Well-known member
In Texas, restitution doesn't mean squat. We have a lady that owes us restitution to the tune of $6k. She made 1 $300 payment 9 years ago and we haven't received anything else since.
Nothing really happens to them if they don't pay. Maybe some additional jail time.
She was a meth addict. I'm assuming she's dead at this point.
Half-fast eddie
Well-known member
You are forgiven. Go forth and sin no more.
Regardless of the wording, i find it incredible that you dont have to show any form of competency like other states require.
rustyjames
Well-known member
Same in NJ
nadogail
Well-known member
Work Release to build your garage would be effective justice.
Walkers
Well-known member
Fixed that for you
Damn! I was hoping this was going to have a better ending. It's good the guys in jail but it really ***** your being out the money that you are going to have to do all the work. I'm looking at having some work done on my house, and thanks to you I'll be better prepared to deal with the contractors when the time comes. Thank you for this valuable information.
Just talked to the detective. It is highly likely that they are going to let this POS plead out. I was told the most likely outcome will be that he is ordered to pay restitution (yea right) and be let go. Free to return to Ohio. I asked what will happen when he doesn't pay. I was politely told "nothing". A warrant will be issued by Pennsylvania, but nobody will actively look for him. He would have to get picked up on another charge and they "MIGHT" return him to PA. That if he is picked up in Ohio, the PA warrant might not pop.
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be an honest citizen.
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be an honest citizen.
FredWanaker
Well-known member
It always pays to be honest. We live in a social system. There are win - win, win - lose, and lose - lose transactions. The evidence is 100% reliable that people who live their lives on win - lose, and lose - lose transactions end up with quite unprofitable lives. If one needs proof, just look at this contractor's lifestyle, and compare it with the freedom you have. That is not to say it doesn't **** when someone puts you into a non-winning transaction, but long term you come out a winner - they don't. It holds up the same way all thru the animal kingdom. Think of the many friends you have who are helping you out of this situation. Those friends are there because you don't treat them like the contractor treated you. If I were there and not 3000 miles away, I'd come over and help too even if it was just carrying nails and pushing a broom.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
**** like this makes my blood boil.
duneslider
Well-known member
The legal/police system is a joke. They don't have time to deal with real criminals but the cops had time last night to pull me over for rolling through a stop sign on a quiet country road. Sure, I shouldn't roll through stop signs but that is there a more lame traffic infraction out there?
Anyway, ***** about losing the money. My exterior guy stopped returning calls and never came to finish the job. Luckily, I hadn't paid the final bill. I had to hire a different contractor to wrap up but then the douche filed a lien since I didn't pay the final bill. We were able to work things out, I paid him some of the invoice to get him to drop the lien. I still ended up a little over the original quote but not enough to really get too worked up about.
Anyway, ***** about losing the money. My exterior guy stopped returning calls and never came to finish the job. Luckily, I hadn't paid the final bill. I had to hire a different contractor to wrap up but then the douche filed a lien since I didn't pay the final bill. We were able to work things out, I paid him some of the invoice to get him to drop the lien. I still ended up a little over the original quote but not enough to really get too worked up about.
Post court update!!!!
Well there was a meeting with a Judge, and ADA and a defendant. Here is a quick synopsis:
In the face of overwhelming evidence he admitted guilt.
He still owes the state of Ohio some time on another fraud charge.
It came out that the reason he was not able to attend my last local hearing is because he was in jail, pretty good reason!!
He was offered a plea deal.
He was returned to Ohio to finish out his sentence there, upon release, his sentence here for my charges begins.
He was given 12 months probation and ordered to pay restitution in the full amount ($8000 minus the cost of the trusses)
If he doesn't make full restitution within the 12 months a warrant and extradition papers will be issued, and he will return to Allegheny Co. Jail. He also has to regularly meet with his probation officer. The reasoning is that he can't pay restitution if he is in jail.
I am a bit upset that I was not able to be in court to witness this. However the Judge was still following the Covid-19 protocols from the height of the pandemic. The defendant wasn't even in the courthouse.
The outcome thus far is less than I wanted, but more than I expected. I am still confident that we won't send me a thin dime but at least I know he won't be allowed to disappear in Ohio. I was not expecting the extradition order. I am unsure if he will be fitted with a monitoring device. I need to find out when his parole starts, so I can figure out when it ends and if he will be back in jail.
So for now, I am still moving forward on the shop. I have the trusses installed, I borrowed enough scaffolding to build 2 towers and stages that will stretch between them to allow me to safely install my purlins and stringers. I hired two guys to help me while we are under plant shut down between Christmas and New Years. It's slow going and cold, but forward progress is still forward progress.
“sempre avanti”
Keith
Well there was a meeting with a Judge, and ADA and a defendant. Here is a quick synopsis:
In the face of overwhelming evidence he admitted guilt.
He still owes the state of Ohio some time on another fraud charge.
It came out that the reason he was not able to attend my last local hearing is because he was in jail, pretty good reason!!
He was offered a plea deal.
He was returned to Ohio to finish out his sentence there, upon release, his sentence here for my charges begins.
He was given 12 months probation and ordered to pay restitution in the full amount ($8000 minus the cost of the trusses)
If he doesn't make full restitution within the 12 months a warrant and extradition papers will be issued, and he will return to Allegheny Co. Jail. He also has to regularly meet with his probation officer. The reasoning is that he can't pay restitution if he is in jail.
I am a bit upset that I was not able to be in court to witness this. However the Judge was still following the Covid-19 protocols from the height of the pandemic. The defendant wasn't even in the courthouse.
The outcome thus far is less than I wanted, but more than I expected. I am still confident that we won't send me a thin dime but at least I know he won't be allowed to disappear in Ohio. I was not expecting the extradition order. I am unsure if he will be fitted with a monitoring device. I need to find out when his parole starts, so I can figure out when it ends and if he will be back in jail.
So for now, I am still moving forward on the shop. I have the trusses installed, I borrowed enough scaffolding to build 2 towers and stages that will stretch between them to allow me to safely install my purlins and stringers. I hired two guys to help me while we are under plant shut down between Christmas and New Years. It's slow going and cold, but forward progress is still forward progress.
“sempre avanti”
Keith
Daniel Dudley
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2009
- Messages
- 3,546
Glad you are moving forward. Be safe.
LeonardY
Well-known member
I've been quietly following this. I'm glad to hear there has been some resolution. I hope you can get your shop done with a minimum of disruptions now.
Best to you and your family in the new year.
Oh and Merry Christmas!
lieutenant
Well-known member
Thanks for the update. I have been following along and admire your persistence in making sure this guy gets some punishment.
58Yeoman
Well-known member
Glad/hope it's working out for you. I've also been following this saga. I don't understand contractors, and why they do it.
We had a 12x20 barn built this summer, close to $10k when it was all done. Two days later, the barn door hinges start to rust. Have called the guy numerous times to replace them with better ones (about $35 at Menards), but he keeps coming up with excuses.
We had a 12x20 barn built this summer, close to $10k when it was all done. Two days later, the barn door hinges start to rust. Have called the guy numerous times to replace them with better ones (about $35 at Menards), but he keeps coming up with excuses.
Toolfool
Well-known member
Here's the reality. This guy and those like him, are NOT contractors. They are cheats and conmen who have figured out that homeowners are easy pickings. With a truck and minimal tools they can pull off a scam with minimal to no consequences. Lack of a license allows them to under-bid everyone else and pocket the licensing and insurance fees that the rest of us pay. I was a contractor for 35 years. I have heard these stories many times. These people are not in the same profession or category as me or the people I worked with and around.
There was a drywall contractor in my area who was very popular and very busy, he even did a couple of jobs for me. I overheard someone mention that he was not licensed and that he often used illegal laborers. I went on the state website to see that he was not licensed . I turned him in.
OP : Glad you pursued this as well as you did. Thank you for helping to clean up my industry. If you were closer I would gladly lend a hand in getting your shop built.
jives
Well-known member
One of the finest comments I've read on GJ. We've all been shafted at one time or another, but the ultimate response is living a life of honor, truth, and grace.
Thank you. I do have some absolutely amazing friends, many of whom have come crawling out of the woodwork to help with this problem. I am amazed and humbled at their generosity. Even more so since I am such rubbish at asking for help. Once word got out that I was planning on setting the trusses by myself I had about 10 people at the house on a cold Saturday morning, doing whatever they could, some were busy cooking a huge picnic lunch for every one, another was making coffee and running it to everyone, others were running the telehandler, nailing stringers rigging the trusses for lifting, while me and another guy were on the ladders placing and nailing the trusses.
This is the time of the year when think about just how lucky I am in life, and yes how you treat others comes back to you 1000 times over.
Ipassgas
Well-known member
How old is "older"?
Yes , we have a fee for everything.
My Engineer's license was $285 a year in CT. In MA it was $75. I once commented to the MA licensing board and the reply was that they encourage improving the economy, not squash it.