loop holes for garage height/county code ideas?

[Bad00SS]

I'm running into an issue with the plans for the new shop build. In my area there is a rule that no detached building can be taller than the main residence. I have a drop down to my attic in my garage currently. I measured in the attic from the peak to the garage ceiling opening, then also from the ceiling to the garage floor. I am at 14 feet 4 inches. The plans for the new garage with 12 foot walls comes out to 16 feet 6inches to the peak. In the current state the building will not be approved. I was told by a few contractors that I can add a cupola like an old farm house would have. I also considered a false chimney, I feel that would appear more normal. I'm not too into styling of having a cupola. I need to gain 2 feet 2 inches in roof height and it has to be part of the structure not just an antenna or rod. What have you guys done to get around this? any ideas appreciated.

 

[Mechtech]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Don't know about adding height to the main house. But the typical workaround is to find out how to make the new construction attached. Depending on distances and local codes you could at an enclosed walkway and then the new shop may be considered as attached and part of the main building.

But as always any construction code shenanigans are highly dependent on your local area/government and what has been done in the past.

 

[elvee]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Make sure you know how building height is measured. I had a similar problem when I built my shop. In my case, the county measured primary structure height be using the average of the highest and lowest points of the roof structure of the house - measuring from grade, take the lowest point of the eaves and the highest point of the ridge, and then determine the halfway point. In my case the house was only 12 feet tall. The accessory structure had to be measured at the absolute highest point.

The solution was a breezeway that made the garage an extension of the house. That is how I got. 27 foot tall building on my property.

 

[Bad00SS]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Don't know about adding height to the main house. But the typical workaround is to find out how to make the new construction attached. Depending on distances and local codes you could at an enclosed walkway and then the new shop may be considered as attached and part of the main building.

But as always any construction code shenanigans are highly dependent on your local area/government and what has been done in the past.

Attached they require a totally different footing/ foundation code using way more concrete and this has been quoted $10,000-$11,000 higher to be done. A cupola is $350 and building a false chimney will be even cheaper yet.

 

[cvairwerks]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Also worth looking into getting a variance for the height...might take a few weeks, but could be well worth it.

 

[ddurrett896]

I was told by a few contractors that I can add a cupola like an old farm house would have. I also considered a false chimney, I feel that would appear more normal. I'm not too into styling of having a cupola. I need to gain 2 feet 2 inches in roof height and it has to be part of the structure not just an antenna or rod. What have you guys done to get around this? any ideas appreciated.

I just went thru a variance hearing for setbacks, but heard a case similar to yours.

Where i live, a cupola and chimney isnt considered part of the structure when looking at the height since it’s no structural.

Apply for a variance.

 

[Orionrising]

Can you do shorter walls and cathedral trusses?

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[BillK]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

How about a lower slope roof on the new garage ? Or even a flat one ?

 

[GMCGarage]

I'm running into an issue with the plans for the new shop build. In my area there is a rule that no detached building can be taller than the main residence. I have a drop down to my attic in my garage currently. I measured in the attic from the peak to the garage ceiling opening, then also from the ceiling to the garage floor. I am at 14 feet 4 inches. The plans for the new garage with 12 foot walls comes out to 16 feet 6inches to the peak. In the current state the building will not be approved. I was told by a few contractors that I can add a cupola like an old farm house would have. I also considered a false chimney, I feel that would appear more normal. I'm not too into styling of having a cupola. I need to gain 2 feet 2 inches in roof height and it has to be part of the structure not just an antenna or rod. What have you guys done to get around this? any ideas appreciated.

You better talk to the building department, find out what determines whats part of the structure. Years ago in my area a guy did something similar getting around a particular code about decks. After about 4 years in court, they ended up removing it. Make sure you dont end up the same way. I know its nice to have short cuts and not do it properly, but can come back to bite you.

Ask about grade too, if you build up the grade around, will that cut down the height, or is it based off the slab?

 

[bczygan]

You better talk to the building department, find out what determines whats part of the structure. Years ago in my area a guy did something similar getting around a particular code about decks. After about 4 years in court, they ended up removing it. Make sure you dont end up the same way. I know its nice to have short cuts and not do it properly, but can come back to bite you.

Ask about grade too, if you build up the grade around, will that cut down the height, or is it based off the slab?

In many places it is measured from the lowest grade point around the perimeter. You could raise the grade or sink the garage.

Bill

 

[Toomanytools?]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Look up code and how the house is measured, a quick search turned up this.
HEIGHT
The vertical distance measured from the average grade to the highest point of a structure
City of Rockford Zoning Ordinance 10 Chapter 1.

In the case of a building, height shall be measured from the average grade to the
highest point of the roof surface for a flat roof; to the deck line of mansard roofs; and to the midpoint between the eaves and ridge for gable, hip, and gambrel roof(s).

http://www.rockford.mi.us/Portals/1087/docs/Zoning-Ordinance-includes-index-of-terms-00630925-2x9ED46-2014.pdf

 

[GMCGarage]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Look up code and how the house is measured, a quick search turned up this.
HEIGHT
The vertical distance measured from the average grade to the highest point of a structure
City of Rockford Zoning Ordinance 10 Chapter 1.

In the case of a building, height shall be measured from the average grade to the
highest point of the roof surface for a flat roof; to the deck line of mansard roofs; and to the midpoint between the eaves and ridge for gable, hip, and gambrel roof(s).

http://www.rockford.mi.us/Portals/1087/docs/Zoning-Ordinance-includes-index-of-terms-00630925-2x9ED46-2014.pdf

Seems very vague. what is average grade? Is it measured from 2" off the wall, or 2 feet off the wall? I would use the grade to get what you want, and after that, if need be, remove said grade after getting permit. Thats your loop hole!

 

[yeldogt]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Typically, you can't use gimmicks to get around codes -- I would ask the contractors again if they have first hand knowledge of using an accessory detail to get around what it a rather common code today. Sounds like "I heard a guy do X story"

What type of town governance? It sounds like you may have already asked your local authority .. and they gave you information that you did not want to hear? Sometimes it's better to have a conversation with the local elected official that controls that area of government. Have found that the code officials are at least a little more helpful when introduced that way. Many times the elected officials react the same way as homeowners when the codes are explained .. What ? You're kidding?

Moving forward it's about getting information .. and that's all up to how friendly the local people are. Have had people explain what's required .. very helpful .. almost tell you step by step. Have also had people explain and seem nice -- knowing they were not going to approve it. I have also had those that were no help at all.

Sad to say -- sometimes doing a little research into who is the best land use Attorney in your area is in order. They know everybody and know what can and can't fly and what has to be done .. pay for a consultation .. some want more than that for the information.

 

[vavet]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

We're talking about 2 feet here. My hunch is that the intent behind the law is they don't want a 3-story barn next to a single story rancher. I bet you can probably get a variance, especially if it's an otherwise attractive building.

 

[Radix2]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Look up code and how the house is measured, a quick search turned up this.
HEIGHT
The vertical distance measured from the average grade to the highest point of a structure
City of Rockford Zoning Ordinance 10 Chapter 1.

In the case of a building, height shall be measured from the average grade to the
highest point of the roof surface for a flat roof; to the deck line of mansard roofs; and to the midpoint between the eaves and ridge for gable, hip, and gambrel roof(s).

http://www.rockford.mi.us/Portals/1087/docs/Zoning-Ordinance-includes-index-of-terms-00630925-2x9ED46-2014.pdf

He is in Rockford, Il, not Rockford, mi.

But you are exactly right, this stuff is completely local, you have to know what will fly in that exact spot. Breezeways, chimneys or cupolas might work in one spot, but not usually.


I ran into this exact problem. Ended up adding on to house and ended up at state residential max height...35ft...

Just completely impossible to add a decent sized shop when the main house is a ranch. Not even sure what this dumb rule is supposed to accomplish. It is an American classic to have a ranch house ( short) and a barn (tall) if the styling is apporopriate and the space is available it is a good looking combo...certainly as good looking as the allowed colonial house and barn...

 

[Toomanytools?]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

He is in Rockford, Il, not Rockford, mi.

But you are exactly right, this stuff is completely local, you have to know what will fly in that exact spot. Breezeways, chimneys or cupolas might work in one spot, but not usually.


I ran into this exact problem. Ended up adding on to house and ended up at state residential max height...35ft...

Just completely impossible to add a decent sized shop when the main house is a ranch. Not even sure what this dumb rule is supposed to accomplish. It is an American classic to have a ranch house ( short) and a barn (tall) if the styling is apporopriate and the space is available it is a good looking combo...certainly as good looking as the allowed colonial house and barn...

My bad, point being a lot of this stuff is online for your city/county codes. Call the building department or city official and talk with someone that knows.
If you can't lower the new building wall height or roof plane, then seems next step is getting a variance. Depending on the city a 2 foot difference seems like it might have a chance.

91-017
BUILDING HEIGHT
The vertical distance measured from grade adjacent to the front door entrance to the highest point of the roof or mechanical fixtures, inclusive of architectural appurtenances.

https://rockfordil.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Zoning-Ordinance-Amendments-03-31-17.pdf

https://rockfordil.gov/zoning-ordinance-amendments-03-31-17/

 

[yeldogt]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

He is in Rockford, Il, not Rockford, mi.

But you are exactly right, this stuff is completely local, you have to know what will fly in that exact spot. Breezeways, chimneys or cupolas might work in one spot, but not usually.


I ran into this exact problem. Ended up adding on to house and ended up at state residential max height...35ft...

Just completely impossible to add a decent sized shop when the main house is a ranch. Not even sure what this dumb rule is supposed to accomplish. It is an American classic to have a ranch house ( short) and a barn (tall) if the styling is apporopriate and the space is available it is a good looking combo...certainly as good looking as the allowed colonial house and barn...

What we typically call a "ranch" .. did not come to be until after WWII ,, and mostly died by the 70's. Traditional barns had been long gone by then ... Getting a variance has a lot to do with overall looks.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Another vote for applying for a variance. I had to get one for the height of my garage, and while it was time consuming it wasn't terribly difficult (although your mileage may vary.) The best advice I can give is to make sure you do your homework and come into the variance meeting well prepared - most of the other people applying for variances on the day I was there before the committee had not, and they were all denied.

 

[rburke65]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Yes ...apply for a variance. Make your case how it will blend in with the existing style....can you get signatures of neighbors? Lift is just for your own personal use ....no business.

 

[Bad00SS]

Can you do shorter walls and cathedral trusses?

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The lift requires 12 ft ceiling so it would still fit, but I have an Escalade for a daily driver and doing oil changes and such on the lift I wont be able to lift it all the way up with the ceiling tapered. that would become annoying.

 

[Negen]

I am all for the guys who said use a flat roof. We gained about four feet indoor height by taking the roof off my brothers garage and converting to a flat roof. Ours has a slight slope to the rear for drainage.

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[wssix99]

The plans for the new garage with 12 foot walls comes out to 16 feet 6inches to the peak.

Why not just use a flatter roof? You'll need stronger trusses, but the added expense should be much less than the other options.

BTW - Don't forget about the required slope in the floor. Even if you have 12' at the garage doors, that could translate to something less than 11' at the back wall, if you have a deep shop.

Do you have an architect yet? This is a problem that they are trained to solve and are experts at. You'll have to get one anyway, so why not pull them into the discussion now? (You may even find someone locally that knows how you can get a variance.)

 

[jetnow1]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Are there any other garages/or other non attached buildings in your area, if you can show there are others in your area you have a better chance of being approved. Also read the
codes carefully, in my area they measure to the midpoint of the rafter to set maximum
height. I extended my overhang two feet which moved my midpoint by a foot, which on my 12/12 pitch lowered the height at midpoint also by a foot.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Easy, jack the house up 2', or up 8' and add another floor under it.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

I'd ask for a variance.
Do a little work preparing. Explain honestly why you want the structure and what you will be using it for. Drawings, photos, notarized letters from any neighbors that could be affected all help.

 

[Bad00SS]

Why not just use a flatter roof? You'll need stronger trusses, but the added expense should be much less than the other options.

BTW - Don't forget about the required slope in the floor. Even if you have 12' at the garage doors, that could translate to something less than 11' at the back wall, if you have a deep shop.

Do you have an architect yet? This is a problem that they are trained to solve and are experts at. You'll have to get one anyway, so why not pull them into the discussion now? (You may even find someone locally that knows how you can get a variance.)

The flatter roof is a no go with how much snow we get. I have seen at times 36" of snow on my house. We did figure stepping it down to slightly less steep but it only make s a differnce of a few inches. to get the angle where its correct the roof would only have a 2 foot rise over 30 feet. that's nearly a flat roof.

No slope in the floor. it is a shop for race cars. floor has to be perfectly flat for setting up chassis.

My contractor is currently looking into code for if a chimney or added on part to my existing roof will be a loophole. The variance is a 50/50 chance and if your denied its even harder to get it approved after changes. He suggests figure out how to please them before the inspector ever sees the thing.

 

[Bad00SS]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

Are there any other garages/or other non attached buildings in your area, if you can show there are others in your area you have a better chance of being approved.

our last resort would be a variance and using this as my case, my neighbor has a pole building and 3 houses down 2 across from each other both houses built shops with lifts that they build race cars out of. prolly 40x60 buildings. I can bring this to the county's attention that everyone has one. only thing is my house is the only one that is so short. the others are built exactly the same height as the house. their house happens to be a foot or so taller than me.

 

[Bad00SS]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

My bad, point being a lot of this stuff is online for your city/county codes. Call the building department or city official and talk with someone that knows.

91-017
BUILDING HEIGHT
The vertical distance measured from grade adjacent to the front door entrance to the highest point of the roof or mechanical fixtures, inclusive of architectural appurtenances.

https://rockfordil.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Zoning-Ordinance-Amendments-03-31-17.pdf

https://rockfordil.gov/zoning-ordinance-amendments-03-31-17/

So I started the day out calling the building and zoning dept. The lady there just told me exactly what you posted for the rule. I said well is a chimney a " mechanical fixture" ? She had no answer. I said well this makes or breaks the deal if I can build a 16' -6" building. I gotta know is the peak of my roof the measuring point or the top of the chimney? She said the peak of the roof is for sure okay but i'm not sure what that sticks above would count. I told her this is holding up the construction and get someone to get me an answer. Those people are worthless down there. They will prolly never call me back.


Supposedly my contactor knows a guy who works down there and is going to try his cell phone today.

 

[RPH]

Perfectly flat concrete? Only in your dreams. The guy that did mine was real good and it’s close but far from perfect. Even at work where we build multimillion dollar machines it’s still not perfect. Better plan on having a fabrication table that can be leveled after its ground flat.

 

[CraigStu]

Give her a break, she is a person who answers the phone. I would make an appointment to go there and talk to someone. I have had good success getting information from the two county offices I have dealt with.

 

[Bad00SS]

Perfectly flat concrete? Only in your dreams. The guy that did mine was real good and it’s close but far from perfect. Even at work where we build multimillion dollar machines it’s still not perfect. Better plan on having a fabrication table that can be leveled after its ground flat.

it will be near perfect. He just built a race car shop for my father last year. The shop looks perfect to me. works for everything we need. Mine will be exactly the same. This guy owns his own concrete trucks so he doesn't outsource any concrete work. he's been doing it for 40 years and races with us. he understands our needs. That's why we picked him for both shops. But I understand it could be a 1/2 a degree off. it will be far better than any normal home garage I promise that.

 

[Bad00SS]

Give her a break, she is a person who answers the phone. I would make an appointment to go there and talk to someone. I have had good success getting information from the two county offices I have dealt with.

She should have said I am not the person who knows all the codes. let me get him then. Not act like what she says is all there is and she cant give me an answer. lol. I felt like why do you even answer the phone if you have no answers. ridiculous.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

our last resort would be a variance and using this as my case, my neighbor has a pole building and 3 houses down 2 across from each other both houses built shops with lifts that they build race cars out of. prolly 40x60 buildings. I can bring this to the county's attention that everyone has one. only thing is my house is the only one that is so short. the others are built exactly the same height as the house. their house happens to be a foot or so taller than me.

I would stop down and talk to your neighbors, find out how they got around the rules. If they applied for a variance then you should too, you can use their experience and buildings as examples as to what's in your neighborhood.


Secondly, I wouldn't call, I would go in and visit with them. You get better answers face to face than just being a voice at the other end of a phone call.

 

[Bad00SS]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

I would stop down and talk to your neighbors, find out how they got around the rules. If they applied for a variance then you should too, you can use their experience and buildings as examples as to what's in your neighborhood.


Secondly, I wouldn't call, I would go in and visit with them. You get better answers face to face than just being a voice at the other end of a phone call.

The neighbor across from me with the pole building was grand fathered in because it was built in the 70's or 80's. The 2 down the street have taller houses so if that building is within 1" of the house they fit code with no special variance. My situation is the only one that is way out of code. that's my problem. All I can do is say hey I gotta look out my front door at a big *** pole building so why cant I have something like that. His big *** shop is literally in front of my drive way on the other side by the cornfield.

In person is prolly best. they will have to get me an answer. I will keep you guys updated with what my contractor finds or if I have to drive down there.

 

[yeldogt]

She should have said I am not the person who knows all the codes. let me get him then. Not act like what she says is all there is and she cant give me an answer. lol. I felt like why do you even answer the phone if you have no answers. ridiculous.

I have had code officials provide no more assistance ... zoning is often worse (show me a plan -- being often typical)

The problem you have is that in most jurisdictions there are always people who take any "unknown" as ... no. That's the problem as the shear number of codes increase .. many counteract each other. It boils down to one or two people making the local decision and that can be different vs another jurisdiction.

It sounds like you do not need stamped plans or any site plan for your job?

 

[yeldogt]

Re: loop holes for garage hieght/county code ideas?

The neighbor across from me with the pole building was grand fathered in because it was built in the 70's or 80's. The 2 down the street have taller houses so if that building is within 1" of the house they fit code with now special variance. My situation is the only one that is way out of code. that's my problem. All I can do is say hey I gotta look out my front door at a big *** pole building so why cant I have something like that. His big *** hop is literally in front of my drive way on the other side by the cornfield.

You would think it should work that way from your angle -- but, if you want something that requires a variance .. there is nothing you can do.

And ........don't be surprised if when you go to get it someone with a big garage does not want to look at yours.

 

[Negen]

Radiant heat coils in roof would solve your snow issue with a flat roof.

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[Bad00SS]

Okay here it is... All the answers I have been looking for. My contractor called me then right after the county building inspector called. Here's how the code applies my situation. Both had similar things to say.


In my county and township area a chimney is not even considered a part of the structure to measure by. Even though you may think it is a mechanical structure it is not. They are more referring to elevators for barns and things that have pulleys above the roof. random things like that. A cheap 24" by 24" cupola with louvered vents on it and those tin or copper roofs are more decorative and does not count. Now if you build a cupola along the lines of something bigger and it has a shingled roof matching the house it is now part of your structure. They recommended a "look out room" above my existing garage. Maybe 3ft tall walls and a 4/12 pitch shingled roof to match the house. match the siding on it to the house. put some windows in. maybe something that is 4-5 feet wide. it does not have to be accessible or functional as a room but it needs to be part of the house. So what I gather is it needs siding, a shingled roof and possible windows and it is part of the house. So I may build a 48" x 48" x 36" tall box out of plywood and side it with my siding to match then put a window in the front and build a roof on top of it a the same pitch as my house and shingle it with the left over shingles I have in my garage. it would be about 5 feet tall overall and would do the trick. I feel this is my only option.

 

[yeldogt]

Okay here it is... All the answers I have been looking for. My contractor called me then right after the county building inspector called. Here's how the code applies my situation. Both had similar things to say.


In my county and township area a chimney is not even considered a part of the structure to measure by. Even though you may think it is a mechanical structure it is not. They are more referring to elevators for barns and things that have pulleys above the roof. random things like that. A cheap 24" by 24" cupola with louvered vents on it and those tin or copper roofs are more decorative and does not count. Now if you build a cupola along the lines of something bigger and it has a shingled roof matching the house it is now part of your structure. They recommended a "look out room" above my existing garage. Maybe 3ft tall walls and a 4/12 pitch shingled roof to match the house. match the siding on it to the house. put some windows in. maybe something that is 4-5 feet wide. it does not have to be accessible or functional as a room but it needs to be part of the house. So what I gather is it needs siding, a shingled roof and possible windows and it is part of the house. So I may build a 48" x 48" x 36" tall box out of plywood and side it with my siding to match then put a window in the front and build a roof on top of it a the same pitch as my house and shingle it with the left over shingles I have in my garage. it would be about 5 feet tall overall and would do the trick. I feel this is my only option.

Does not sound like a very nice looking solution ..........

Did whoever you spoke to from the county give you any pointers as to someone who has done this? And is he the person that will approve both building this "cap" and agreeing it will satisfy the code as he is reading it for your new building? Trust me, it matters.

Did you ask about a variance?

Your contractor obviously does not know or understand -- so I would be careful taking any advise from him.

 

[rk_tek]

is your lot large enough to sub divide? you can have the section around your house zoned Residential and the rest of the property zoned Agricultural. Check your local codes to see if buildings zoned Agricultural have different standards. My father was able to build a pole barn without permits and much taller than his house because of this. Added bonus, it also lowers property taxes