luvit's challenge: keep below 800 kWh each month.

[demographic]

I've not read the whole thread but if the house is quite warm and has high ceilings you could get a sheila's maid.
We got one a few years ago and shortly afterwards got rid of the drier as its simply not needed.

Hell, I remember my grandmother had one when I was a kid and they dry clothes quite quickly with just a warm room/stairwell.

 

[Highbeam]

After some time using a kill-a-watt I can tell you that the little stand by losses like your TV and cell chargers do NOT add up to anything even remotely significant. Remember, we're talking about getting down to 20,000 watt hours per day. That's a lot of power.

I most recently looked for the biggest parasitic load I could find. The entertainment center. It has an Xbox, a ROKU player, a 42" samsung LCD TV plus a cordless phone charger, always plugged into a powerstrip. I put the kill-a-watt on it and found that we use a whopping .75 KwH per day for all of this. Yes, like 8 cents a day and a phantom load of 8 watts.

Don't waste much effort on the last 2%.

 

[superduty59]

With that smart meter, you need a TED-5000 unit which clamps onto your power cables, just like a regular ammeter. It costs more, but offers quicker response to changes on your power.

Luvit, is that also made by Blueline? Is it wifi also?

 

[Boyd Who]

I don't think you want to know what our electrical usage is then, Teken!

100-y/o poorly insulated house (2000 sq ft including basement), 440 sq ft well insulated shop, and everything is electric. Let your imagination run wild and see if you can guess.
Hint...it will make you weep!!

 

[ishiboo]

I don't think you want to know what our electrical usage is then, Teken!

100-y/o poorly insulated house (2000 sq ft including basement), 440 sq ft well insulated shop, and everything is electric. Let your imagination run wild and see if you can guess.
Hint...it will make you weep!!

Resistance heat?

If so, I am already weeping for you.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I found all the old T12 florescent lighting was a killer in my shop. 1.4 kW when 2/3 of my lighting is working.
I'm actively looking for lighting solutions and hope to have the decision by the end of this weekend.
I know people will advertise T8 or even T5 for efficiency, but reality is they just provide more lumens... but each bulb still utilizes high wattage.

It means you can use less fixtures and still have good lighting, thus less power consumed. Your garage has way too many fixtures, with some not working, they are still consuming power, and the bulbs put out so little light..... You could install T5 strips and use half as many as you have now, or less. 5 or 6 of the 8 ft T5HO (4 bulbs, two in line). At 2 amps each, thats less than 1500 watts total. I think that fixtures that don't work, will draw nearly as much as fixtures that do work, just the way old magnetic ballast works.

Charles

 

[theoldwizard1]

I found all the old T12 florescent lighting was a killer in my shop. 1.4 kW when 2/3 of my lighting is working.
I'm actively looking for lighting solutions and hope to have the decision by the end of this weekend.
I know people will advertise T8 or even T5 for efficiency, but reality is they just provide more lumens... but each bulb still utilizes high wattage.

The bulb may consume the same wattage, but what about the ballast ?

Most T12 use old non-electronic ballasts. The new electronic ballasts should consume less.

How many T12 bulbs is 2/3 of your lights ? Divide 1,400 by the number of light. The difference between that number and the rating of the bulb (48" T12 is 60 watts, IIRC) is what is lost to the ballast.

T12 fixtures can be retrofitted to T8 with high efficiency electronic ballasts. This should save about 30-35% and give 3-10% more light.

Personally, I think those double bulb fixtures in your shop are way overkill. You could probably cut back to single bulb fixtures with the same spacing and maybe add some extra task specific lights.

 

[Boyd Who]

Resistance heat?

If so, I am already weeping for you.

Yup. 25KW forced-air furnace in the house, 4KW garage heater in the shop. Plus the stove, water heater, etc, etc. Luckily our power is just over 6 cents per KWH.

We're on a monthly budget plan and it's $310/month.

 

[buzz4041]

Yup. 25KW forced-air furnace in the house, 4KW garage heater in the shop. Plus the stove, water heater, etc, etc. Luckily our power is just over 6 cents per KWH.

We're on a monthly budget plan and it's $310/month.

I wish mine was just over 6 cents but in reality I pay just over 12 cents

 

[buzz4041]

Luvit, is that also made by Blueline? Is it wifi also?

They are not Blue line. Just for your info. I have read the reviews of this TEG and they don't sound very good. Look into them.

 

[dadsEH]

I wish mine was just over 6 cents but in reality I pay just over 12 cents

Try Australia mate... 19 cents a kwh,
good thing we only use an average of 8.26kwh per day in this house eh!
My bill for last 3 months was 760 kwh...i.e... TURN OFF THE DAMN LIGHTS.

 

[buzz4041]

Try Australia mate... 19 cents a kwh,
good thing we only use an average of 8.26kwh per day in this house eh!
My bill for last 3 months was 760 kwh...i.e... TURN OFF THE DAMN LIGHTS.

Fortunately for me when I was in Australia my company paid for everything. Yea that utility price *****.

 

[ishiboo]

Yup. 25KW forced-air furnace in the house, 4KW garage heater in the shop. Plus the stove, water heater, etc, etc. Luckily our power is just over 6 cents per KWH.

We're on a monthly budget plan and it's $310/month.

Ah. Our power is twice that at .12c/kwh.

My electric bill last month with no electric heat other than the dryer was $180. In addition, we use about $2400 in propane per heating season. So we're well above $310/mo in winter

 

[Teken]

Yup. 25KW forced-air furnace in the house, 4KW garage heater in the shop. Plus the stove, water heater, etc, etc. Luckily our power is just over 6 cents per KWH.

We're on a monthly budget plan and it's $310/month.

Jebus . . .

Teken . . .

 

[Highbeam]

Do remember that canadian dollars are different than australian dollars are different than american dollars. Also, there are lots of tricks that utility companies use to trick you into thinking that your KwH rate is cheap. The ONLY way to actually know your power bill per KwH is to divide the total bill by the KwHs consumed. Doing this my 6 cents per KwH becomes 10 cents and of course the power gets cheaper as I use more since the base charges become a smaller portion.

 

[Boyd Who]

Jebus . . .

Teken . . .

Ya might want to sit down for this...



The bill for last month showed our January usage at 6,640 KWH.

We needed to replace the ancient gas furnace in the house when we bought the place 4 years ago. We asked around and were told by most people to ditch the NG and go all electric, so that's what we did. If I had known then what I know now...

Oh well, we'll make do. Luckily our mortgage payments are minimal and the cost of living here is way way less than we were used to back in Calgary. Our combined monthly payments here, including mortgage, utilities, truck payments, insurance (life, vehicle & house), etc are still lower than we paid for just the mortgage in Calgary, so it all balances out.

 

[ishiboo]

Do remember that canadian dollars are different than australian dollars are different than american dollars. Also, there are lots of tricks that utility companies use to trick you into thinking that your KwH rate is cheap. The ONLY way to actually know your power bill per KwH is to divide the total bill by the KwHs consumed. Doing this my 6 cents per KwH becomes 10 cents and of course the power gets cheaper as I use more since the base charges become a smaller portion.

6 cents Canadian = 6.02 cents US, I think it's fairly close

Very true though, $30 of the $182 on my last bill was meter fees for 3 meters, so I pay well over 12 cents.

 

[ishiboo]

Ya might want to sit down for this...



The bill for last month showed our January usage at 6,640 KWH.

We needed to replace the ancient gas furnace in the house when we bought the place 4 years ago. We asked around and were told by most people to ditch the NG and go all electric, so that's what we did. If I had known then what I know now...

Oh well, we'll make do. Luckily our mortgage payments are minimal and the cost of living here is way way less than we were used to back in Calgary. Our combined monthly payments here, including mortgage, utilities, truck payments, insurance (life, vehicle & house), etc are still lower than we paid for just the mortgage in Calgary, so it all balances out.

In the US if you had a power bill that high, the DEA would stop by looking for your giant pot farm

 

[Boyd Who]

In the US if you had a power bill that high, the DEA would stop by looking for your giant pot farm

 

[Teken]

Ya might want to sit down for this...



The bill for last month showed our January usage at 6,640 KWH.

I have no words for this . . . Just your one month electrical bill is what I pay in an entire year!

Teken . . .

 

[Charles (in GA)]

6 cents Canadian = 6.02 cents US, I think it's fairly close

Very true though, $30 of the $182 on my last bill was meter fees for 3 meters, so I pay well over 12 cents.

Not as much spread on the AU to US dollar as I was thinking......

$1 AU equals slightly less than $1.08 US

Charles

 

[Highbeam]

Just something to be aware of on an international forum. It also bites us when we talk about miles per gallon since some countries use an imperial gallon.

I have a power leak somewhere. How can I burn up well over 1200 kWh in a 1700 SF house and no space heating. I am almost at the point of thinking my meter is bogus. First I will have to selectively shut off 220 appliances and then read the goofy dials on the meter to get daily use.

Do power meters fail? Do they fail by reading too high?

 

[Boyd Who]

I have no words for this . . . Just your one month electrical bill is what I pay in an entire year!

Teken . . .

Shocking , I know. However, remember how much different our homes are. While I'd love to have cheaper utility bills, it's part of the price I'm willing to pay to live in a heritage house.

 

[Blue Line]

It has been a most interesting read going thru this thread!
I applaud your 800KW Challenge Luvit, that is quite the challenge indeed.
I work for BlueLine Innovations and we make the PowerCost Monitor, Wi-Fi bridge that enables the reports you see within this thread by MyEragy.
Delighted to see the engagement here! Wow, you do have people's attention !

I will admit the techy side is not my specialty but that doesn't keep me from admiring what you are trying to do here, conserve energy and tell as many people about it as possible! Well done, hats tipped to you!

If you already know us that is GREAT! If you don't than come visit us @ www.bluelineinnovations.com

Luvit you should jump on our facebook page, actually why don;t you all come visit us, would love to chat more! www.facebook.com/bluelinepowercostmonitor

At an 800 KW Challenge, Stay warm, comfortably numb anyway We are from Newfoundland, Canada!

"Warm " Smiles
BlueLine

 

[jvitez]

Ya might want to sit down for this...

The bill for last month showed our January usage at 6,640 KWH.

We needed to replace the ancient gas furnace in the house when we bought the place 4 years ago. We asked around and were told by most people to ditch the NG and go all electric, so that's what we did. If I had known then what I know now...

I have no words for this . . . Just your one month electrical bill is what I pay in an entire year!

Teken . . .

OK Boyd, you win! My consumption for last month was 6280 KWh, plus 4 cu ft of NG. Our bill is about $80-100 more than usual because one of our geothermal heat pumps kak-ed so we're running all electric for half the house, plus everything else except NG for the cooktop and a rarely used fireplace. MB Hydro says NG is 45% the cost of electricity for space heating right now. It was about even when you made your decision due to record high NG rates. NG keeps going down now.

So luvit: keep us posted if you do get down to your goal of 800. I'll be very impressed, and jealous.

 

[luvit]

Boy, I've bee gone for several days catching up on things when the weather broke for us.
.
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After some time using a kill-a-watt I can tell you that the little stand by losses like your TV and cell chargers do NOT add up to anything even remotely significant. I put the kill-a-watt on it and found that we use a whopping .75 KwH per day for all of this. ...phantom load of 8 watts.

i suspected so. i own a kill-a-watt, but too lazy to access the location of my power strip, and i especially don't want to undo the cable management of any device. -- thanks for confirming.
.
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Luvit, is that also made by Blueline? Is it wifi also?

Google Ted-5000, it's not Blue Line. I believe the TED-5000 has an RJ45 port for wired networks.
Reviews are poor on poorly installed power monitors, no matter the make/model.
So take your time and fully understand the points of failure or interference.
.
.

Charles (in GA) -- It means you can use less fixtures and still have good lighting.. Your garage has way too many fixtures,..some not working, they are still consuming power

theoldwizard -- The bulb may consume the same wattage. Most T12 use old non-electronic ballasts. T12 fixtures can be retrofitted to T8.. Personally, I think those double bulb fixtures in your shop are way overkill...task specific lights.

yeah i get all that, guys.
remember, i just bought the place the way it is, so i knew i'd be making these changes, but i didn't have any direction without data.
i'll still be looking for results below 32W/bulb, which is where the zones/tasks lighting was decided-on, but will have T8 w/ electronic ballast to flood the room when needed. --T8 w/ electronic ballast is comparable performance of T5, but with lower cost.
I need to design the fixture layout, yet.
This previous owner went nuts with the light fixtures in the shop and house. I have a lot of T12 in my furnished basement to upgrade, too. lol
.

 

[luvit]

So luvit: keep us posted if you do get down to your goal of 800. I'll be very impressed, and jealous.

thanks, man. -- there is a lot of aspects of this thread, and it all started with the intent of having a very low electric bill and still lacking NG or LP bills.

It has been a most interesting read going thru this thread!
I applaud your 800KW Challenge Luvit, that is quite the challenge indeed.
I work for BlueLine Innovations and we make the PowerCost Monitor, Wi-Fi bridge that enables the reports you see within this thread by MyEragy.
Delighted to see the engagement here! Wow, you do have people's attention !

If you already know us that is GREAT! If you don't than come visit us @ www.bluelineinnovations.com

Luvit you should jump on our facebook page, actually why don;t you all come visit us, would love to chat more! www.facebook.com/bluelinepowercostmonitor

At an 800 KW Challenge, Stay warm, comfortably numb anyway We are from Newfoundland, Canada!

"Warm " Smiles
BlueLine

I have often bug one of your directors. His name is Tim. -- I'll check out your facebook.. I don't own a facebook.
CA sounds cold... i've been enjoying a mild winter this year. --thanks for stopping-in!
.
.
Here's the updated stats:

The Goal < 25.8 kWh, Running Total, Ave Temp (F)
.Jan 27 ..... 24.7 kWh ..... 24.7 kWh ..... 55° F
.Jan 28 ..... 22.4 kWh ..... 47.1 kWh ..... 33°
.Jan 29 ..... 25.0 kWh ..... 72.1 kWh ..... 30°
.Jan 30 ..... 22.4 kWh ..... 94.5 kWh ..... 26°
.Jan 31 ..... 27.7 kWh ....122.2 kWh ..... 46°
.Feb 01 ..... 22.5 kWh ....144.7 kWh ..... 47°
.Feb 02 ..... 15.9 kWh ....160.6 kWh ..... 41°
.Feb 03 .....15.7 kWh ....176.3 kWh ..... 26°
.Feb 04 ..... 18.1 kWh ....194.4 kWh ..... 30°
.Feb 05 ..... 18.8 kWh ....213.2 kWh ..... 34°
.Feb 06 ..... 16.6 kWh ....229.8 kWh ..... 25° ..... Daily Ave kWh = 20.89
.Feb 07 .....34.4 kWh ....264.2 kWh ..... 30° ..... Daily Ave kWh = 22.02
.Feb 08 ..... 16.4 kWh ....280.6 kWh ..... 33°
.Feb 09 ..... 16.8 kWh ....297.4 kWh ..... 24°
.Feb 10 ..... 25.0 kWh ....322.4 kWh ..... 30°
.Feb 11 .....27.0 kWh ....349.4 kWh ..... 29°
.Feb 12 ..... 19.4 kWh ....368.8 kWh ..... 16°
.Feb 13 ..... 25.0 kWh ....393.8 kWh ..... 21°
.Feb 14 ..... 18.4 kWh ....412.2 kWh ..... 31° ..... Daily Ave kWh = 21.69
.

 

[Blue Line]

Canada is cold! Esp in Newfoundland! You are doing really well with your personal challenge! I don;t see any takers from your area, it would be neat to compare and compete even!

Keep up the great work!
Smiles

 

[ranger_dood]

I'd be a failure at your challenge, for sure. My house is slightly over 1000 sq ft. I have NG forced air (ducted to the 1st floor only) and a NG water heater. Electricity is used for everything else (including clothes dryer and range/oven). I have two bedrooms upstairs, one of which is my office. That room is heated by two computers (and heat coming up from downstairs). The front bedroom is heated by electric, and only at night. During the day, it stays closed off from the rest of the house and unheated. I fired up the forced air space heater about an hour before bed. I'm single, no kids, and the entire house is running CCFLs.

My usage for last month was 841kwh. Last month was 895kwh. We've had a very mild winter so far... last year my highest month was 921kwh. I'm currently at $0.12/kwh. Oh yeah, and then my NG bill is also $145 this month (138 CCF)

I suppose the two computers drawing a total of 500w continuously (24x7) isn't helping...

 

[luvit]

Canada is cold! Esp in Newfoundland! You are doing really well with your personal challenge! I don;t see any takers from your area..

Whoa, you're way up there. Keep warm. I'm not challenging anyone, but myself.
Teken would beat the pants off of us.
.
.

I'd be a failure at your challenge, for sure. My house is slightly over 1000 sq ft. I have NG forced air (ducted to the 1st floor only) and a NG water heater. Electricity is used for everything else (including clothes dryer and range/oven). I have two bedrooms upstairs, one of which is my office. That room is heated by two computers (and heat coming up from downstairs). The front bedroom is heated by electric, and only at night. During the day, it stays closed off from the rest of the house and unheated. I fired up the forced air space heater about an hour before bed. I'm single, no kids, and the entire house is running CCFLs.

My usage for last month was 841kwh. Last month was 895kwh. We've had a very mild winter so far... last year my highest month was 921kwh. I'm currently at $0.12/kwh. Oh yeah, and then my NG bill is also $145 this month (138 CCF)

I suppose the two computers drawing a total of 500w continuously (24x7) isn't helping...

wow, you may a lot of things working against you.
have you thought about venting your clothes dryer into the house?
i grew-up with a friend whose family that did that all their life and it was great -- be careful, this additional moisture could be bad news for some homes in certain circumstances.
also, depending on your floor plan, you may be able to go with a vent-free NG furnace and have adequate heat throughout the house.

I'm just throwing this out at you, i used these ideas in another home and that $300 vent-free furnace was the best $300 i ever spent.. my winter LP usage dropped from $1600 (forced-air furnace) to $800 (vent-free).

.

 

[ranger_dood]

I've actually considered venting the dryer into the house every winter since I moved in. The moisture wouldn't be a problem, as I also have to run a humidifier all the time to keep it even remotely comfortable in the winter. I put at least 5 gallons of water per day into the air when the furnace is running.

I also don't TRY to conserve power. I leave two computers on all the time because they run Folding @ Home. A third stays on because it's my HTPC, and I'm too impatient to wait for it to boot up when I want to watch something (this will be changing as of now). The two folding computers are obviously not necessary, and a lot of power could be saved by shutting them down.

The dryer is my single biggest energy ****. The computers, the most constant and un-needed. I don't really cook all that much, so the stove doesn't get used to excess. I could probably get it down to 700 KWH? Maybe I'll give it a shot... Today started a new billing cycle for me.

 

[Mattlt]

.
.
[
I increased my wood burning boiler water temp from 185*F to 195*F.
While the fan is not running, heat does radiate from the furnace's heat exchanger through our ducts. -- I can actually feel the warm air from the vents.

..but this winter's mild temperatures are playing the bigger role.
Since I complained about how often the forced air fan kicks-on, the average daily temperature has raised from 28*F to 45*F. -- The yellow line on the chart.
Nights are cold, forced air runs often, but the days have been quite warm, nearly eliminating my forced air usage due to lower heat loss from the home.

I've been blessed with a mild winter, so far, but i need to prepare the house for next winter and this coming summer's A/C use.
.

Have you noticed any difference in your wood consumption after increasing your water temperature?

I have a boiler that looks to be the same as yours, but I'm still running between 165 - 175. Every once in a while when the wind blows hard right at the door of the stove, it will get higher than 175. Sometimes quite a bit higher.

One thing that I did was put a hot water unit heater in my basement when I installed the wood boiler. Keeps the whole basement warm! The fan runs pretty much constantly, but I don't recall the amp draw right now - not very much.

The problem I have is that my T-stat is located directly in the center of the house. Sometimes the center of the house is warm but the extremities get chilly. I've had to play games with the vents to make sure more air reaches the far ends. The house is an L-shaped rambler style that is fairly long and narrow.

Another question. It looks like your boiler is really close to a building. My insurance company said mine had to be at least 35' from any insured building. I've seen other people that have them very close to their house and wonder how they get by with it? I also wonder how much smoke they get in the house!

 

[6768rogues]

Dishwashers can use less hot water than hand washing. We load it up and run it once a day with the hot dry cycle turned off.
Bundle up and sit in the dark.
I worked hard to get a good job so I could live comfortably. If that meant spending a few more bucks to eat well and crank up the heat or AC, so what. That is why I worked, to provide a comfortable lifestyle. However, having a few bucks to spend does not mean it is there to waste. My house is extremely energy efficient so I can be comfortable for little cost.

 

[ranger_dood]

Hey, Luvit... I picked up an inside dryer vent today and got it all hooked up. Haven't run a full load through it yet, so I don't know how it's going to change the heating dynamic of my small kitchen/laundry room. There's a furnace return in the kitchen, though, so if the furnace runs, it'll **** that pre-warmed air in and distribute it...

 

[ranger_dood]

I opted to go with a water trap instead of having to keep a pair of pantyhose around.. It's simple to setup and simple to clean. Just have to keep an eye on the water level.

 

[luvit]

Have you noticed any difference in your wood consumption after increasing your water temperature?

I'm still running between 165 - 175. Every once in a while when the wind blows hard right at the door of the stove, it will get higher than 175. Sometimes quite a bit higher.

One thing that I did was put a hot water unit heater in my basement when I installed the wood boiler. Keeps the whole basement warm! The fan runs pretty much constantly, but I don't recall the amp draw right now - not very much.

Another question. It looks like your boiler is really close to a building. My insurance company said mine had to be at least 35' from any insured building. I've seen other people that have them very close to their house and wonder how they get by with it? I also wonder how much smoke they get in the house!

I really have not noticed an increase of wood consumption.. I suppose the boiler is retaining the heat just as well as any temperature. It has been a very mild winter and I can't gauge the change very well.

The previous owner installed my box facing due west.. on windy nights, I consume A LOT of wood, but I have not noticed my temp above the max setting.. I have not boiled-over, yet.
My furnace is made by "Central Boiler" & the default setting is 185, I think you may want jump to that temp, but check your manual for your default factory setting.
Also, before you jump higher, or at the end of this season, check your draft for a twig or splinter which may not be allowing your draft to be tight... or maybe it needs adjusted?
Tearing apart your draft may not be for everyone..

The previous owner installed this thing 17' from the garage and 60' from the house.. the wood pile is about 60' away in a 3rd direction. We have "Grange Insurance". They may have asked what type of furnace we had, but didn't ask about distance. I walk against the firebox door when I walk to the shop. I get no smoke in the house when it blows my direction... my house may be more air-tight than I suspected.. but poorly insulated.

I have the water heater too, and I love it. I if you make the jump to 185 or higher, be conscious to warn your guests about washing their hands in hot water.

BTW, my Fan's AMP draw is at least 2.5A... 300W divided by 120V.

 

[luvit]

I worked hard to get a good job so I could live comfortably. If that meant spending a few more bucks to eat well and crank up the heat or AC, so what. That is why I worked, to provide a comfortable lifestyle. However, having a few bucks to spend does not mean it is there to waste. My house is extremely energy efficient so I can be comfortable for little cost.

I hear ya on that waste statement.. There's not doubt I'm going to keep me & the wife comfortable, or she gets mean.
.
.

I could probably get it down to 700 KWH? Maybe I'll give it a shot... Today started a new billing cycle for me.
I picked up an inside dryer vent today and got it all hooked up.
I opted to go with a water trap instead of having to keep a pair of pantyhose around.. It's simple to setup and simple to clean. Just have to keep an eye on the water level.

Well, if you lower your usage from 900 to 700, you save about $24 a month. If you get down to 500 kWh, that's nearly $50 worth of dating money
My friends used pantyhose..
Your water trap is cool.. I originally thought those were meant to add water to the air, not so-much to catch lint.. So you just learned me something. lol.

 

[luvit]

719 kWh !!
mm k. now this is outside of my challenge period, but it is within my billing period which ended on Feb 16th.
i began the challenge after the first week of my billing period -- i averaged 32 kWh a day during the first week of my billing period.
i doubt i can predict how much lower my total will be at the end of my challenge period.
edit: my electric bill was $88 vs $168
.

 

[ranger_dood]

What's with the one 16* day? Your power usage didn't increase....

 

[luvit]

.
if you mean 2/2 to 2/6, i don't think hardly any laundry was done.
they did laundry nearly all day on 2/7, lol.
.