Lyle's 26x30 build

[NUTTSGT]

Question about the Bronco. I know a 302 is somewhat tight in there. The raised deck of the 351W over the smaller 302 will make it wider and a tighter fit for the headers.

Are you using somebody's kit (motor mounts/headers/oil pan) for the swap ?

 

[vr4joe]

Why did they notch the beam? I'm no engineer, but they notched the beam at the fulcrum point. Will this compromise the beam? Seems like the contractor just created a weak point in the location where the moment is at it's greatest.

 

[jlylec]

Question about the Bronco. I know a 302 is somewhat tight in there. The raised deck of the 351W over the smaller 302 will make it wider and a tighter fit for the headers.

Are you using somebody's kit (motor mounts/headers/oil pan) for the swap ?

The 351w is actually the exact same size as the 302 on the exterior width and length. It bolts up exactly where the 302 does. It's slightly taller because of the heads, but I have a 2" body lift already for the suspension upgrades so I won't need a scooped hood or anything. It will look about the same under the hood as it does now. I'm also installing a throttle body injection system so no more carb issues off-camber on trails or on cold mornings!

I've been thinking about the exhaust a lot as of late. I may go with ceramic shorty headers, but may also just stick with the manifolds. I don't know. It's always something. I did go with an off-road, two-sump oil pan. Fit is not an issue.

 

[jlylec]

Why did they notch the beam? I'm no engineer, but they notched the beam at the fulcrum point. Will this compromise the beam? Seems like the contractor just created a weak point in the location where the moment is at it's greatest.

They had to notch the beam there in order to hang it so it "floats". There will be a steel I-beam bolted to the beam for the trolley so the notch really shouldn't make any difference. I see what you're saying and it would concern me if not for the I-beam. The other things to consider are that the beam is actually much taller than it looks in that pic with the notch. It goes up into the header it's bolted in to. That and the fact that I'm likely only going to haul things less than 1000lbs up with it. That beam, with the I-beam, should easily be able to hold a couple tons. I'm buying a 1 ton trolley just to be safe! My hoist can actually only lift 880lbs.

 

[NUTTSGT]

The 351w is actually the exact same size as the 302 on the exterior width and length. It bolts up exactly where the 302 does. It's slightly taller because of the heads, but I have a 2" body lift already for the suspension upgrades so I won't need a scooped hood or anything. It will look about the same under the hood as it does now. I'm also installing a throttle body injection system so no more carb issues off-camber on trails or on cold mornings!

I've been thinking about the exhaust a lot as of late. I may go with ceramic shorty headers, but may also just stick with the manifolds. I don't know. It's always something. I did go with an off-road, two-sump oil pan. Fit is not an issue.

FWIW, I'm not trying to get into a ******* match over engine size but you may want to do some more checking on 351w engine size. A 351w has a taller deck, which will push the width of the heads out farther. This is the reason that 302 and 351w headers are different, some vehicles may get away with using the same headers but in a tight fitting engine bay, Foxbody, Bronco or Ranger, you may run into clearance problems. I pulled this measurements from the Ford Racing catalog; page 57

302- 20 3/4"H, 18 3/4"W, 27 1/2"L

351w 23 3/4"H, 21"W, 27 1/4" L

http://www.emagcloud.com/FordRacingCatalogue/Ford_Racing_Catalogue_Web/index.html#/58/

 

[jlylec]

FWIW, I'm not trying to get into a ******* match over engine size but you may want to do some more checking on 351w engine size. A 351w has a taller deck, which will push the width of the heads out farther. This is the reason that 302 and 351w headers are different, some vehicles may get away with using the same headers but in a tight fitting engine bay, Foxbody, Bronco or Ranger, you may run into clearance problems. I pulled this measurements from the Ford Racing catalog; page 57

302- 20 3/4"H, 18 3/4"W, 27 1/2"L

351w 23 3/4"H, 21"W, 27 1/4" L

http://www.emagcloud.com/FordRacingCatalogue/Ford_Racing_Catalogue_Web/index.html#/58/

No ******* match at all! I'm sure I'd lose. Maybe it's just that the mounts are in the same location and the fit is so close it works fine? I've never done this swap personally. I'm only going off what I've read on the bronco site I spend a bunch of time on and the engine builder. I don't actually think he said they were identical in size but were similar in weight and the 351w would bolt right where the 302 was. He did say it was taller but the body lift I had would make that ok. I thought I could use the manifolds off my 302 but it sounds like I'm wrong about that too? Thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

 

[NUTTSGT]

The mounts are in the same spot, no problem there. Sometimes swap kits from 302 to 351W will have different motor mounts, the reason being is to lower the 351w in the engine bay to clear a stock style hood. The problem using lowering mounts is that sometimes it creates oil pan/front crossmember clearance issues.

The stock cast iron manifolds just might be the same, if they are, the difference will probably be in the Y-pipe. It'd probably be taller and have a slightly wider pattern.

Back in high school (eons ago) a friend had a early Bronco with a 170 (?) straight 6, he built a 302 to stick in it then found out he was going to need to swap out the steering box and a few other things. He decided to sell both the Bronco and 302. I remember thinking it looked tight but maybe it wasn't. I do know that having a 3" body lift on my '85 Ranger, made the 302 swap alot easier.

 

[gooned]

Beam was installed yesterday. 4x8" rough sawn oak beam. It's going to be sealed with some marine poly prior to mounting an I-beam underneath for the trolley to run on.

I think I'm going to get a trolley like this to carry the hoist.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_18558_18558

Does anybody have any experience with trolleys like this?

Nice! Very similar to what I'm doing for attic access except I'm only planning on using barn door track with a quad-wheel hanger for the pulley to hang from.

Not sure you'd want to put any where near 1000lbs on your upstairs floor? But I certainly agree that a steel I beam will help carry the load past that notch.

Just to throw it out there, my rough-cut 8X8 ridge beam just got flashing ontop and I'll let it weather to a nice gray, depends on the look you want...

Looks like that excess gravel will go quick once you bring the grade up near the doors etc., I'm totaly amazed how quick I spread a transfer load around.

Keep the posts coming!

PS nice 'hood there...

 

[jlylec]

The mounts are in the same spot, no problem there. Sometimes swap kits from 302 to 351W will have different motor mounts, the reason being is to lower the 351w in the engine bay to clear a stock style hood. The problem using lowering mounts is that sometimes it creates oil pan/front crossmember clearance issues.

The stock cast iron manifolds just might be the same, if they are, the difference will probably be in the Y-pipe. It'd probably be taller and have a slightly wider pattern.

Back in high school (eons ago) a friend had a early Bronco with a 170 (?) straight 6, he built a 302 to stick in it then found out he was going to need to swap out the steering box and a few other things. He decided to sell both the Bronco and 302. I remember thinking it looked tight but maybe it wasn't. I do know that having a 3" body lift on my '85 Ranger, made the 302 swap alot easier.

Yeah I knew the exhaust would have to be redone, but I was thinking the manifolds would still work. I may go headers anyway. Haven't quite decided on that yet. The 2" body lift makes all of this much easier to accomplish. Without it everything would be a lot tighter and I wouldn't be able to keep the stock hood. I have a 5.0 in there now and while it's not swimming around in there, there is room to work. According to a tech guy on the Bronco site I'm on (too much!):

"There are a few points that are a tighter fit. But it does drop right in and bolt in place. Oil pan is different as the rear cap is larger and the pan has to match. The heads sit higher on the block, so anything related to that needs addressing as well. But that is fairly minor stuff. If you did a late model 5.0 you would have issues as well. Different but still have issues that have to be delt with. The gains of a 351 are worth the little changes. I have seen Broncos with a 351 that looked stock, I had to do a double take to realize it was a 351. They do fit that well."

 

[jlylec]

Nice! Very similar to what I'm doing for attic access except I'm only planning on using barn door track with a quad-wheel hanger for the pulley to hang from.

Not sure you'd want to put any where near 1000lbs on your upstairs floor? But I certainly agree that a steel I beam will help carry the load past that notch.

Just to throw it out there, my rough-cut 8X8 ridge beam just got flashing ontop and I'll let it weather to a nice gray, depends on the look you want...

Looks like that excess gravel will go quick once you bring the grade up near the doors etc., I'm totaly amazed how quick I spread a transfer load around.

Keep the posts coming!

PS nice 'hood there...

The upstairs floor is beefed up substantially to hold more weight. I did this for putting heavy stuff on top and also so I could hang heavy stuff and/or hoist stuff from it below. Nothing crazy heavy. An engine here or there.

We are flashing the top of the beam to about an inch down in addition to the marine poly. I like the rough-cut look, but don't want to worry about the weather. Hardest thing to figure out now is how to build the doors to close around the I-beam and seal tight.

I was just talking to the guys this morning about the landscaping and gravel and it does look like we'll use all that gravel. You're right that when you start spreading it it doesn't go nearly as far as it looks like it would!

 

[kyle@hcb]

Wow. You live in a beautiful neighborhood. The garage looks great!

 

[jlylec]

Wow. You live in a beautiful neighborhood. The garage looks great!

thanks kyle! where's "breakin' loose, va"?

 

[kyle@hcb]

Centreville (NoVa)

 

[jlylec]

Do any of you guys have any experience with using Ubiquity products for throwing wireless network? My garage is JUST outside the range of my current wifi network from the house. I have a wired home network as well and was looking at something I could plug in to the wall inside the house closest to the garage to throw/extend the wifi to the garage. There are so many different options I don't know what I should get though. Does this look like the right thing to use?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EGI3CI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jlylec]

Centreville (NoVa)

ah gotcha...used to live in Fair Lakes so I know the area well!

 

[gooned]

Do any of you guys have any experience with using Ubiquity products for throwing wireless network?

Just do a search on here, lost of info on wifi extenders has been shared.

Constantly reminded how we all are in this together on GJ, many of us face similar challenges getting our "realm" built

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yeah I knew the exhaust would have to be redone, but I was thinking the manifolds would still work. I may go headers anyway. Haven't quite decided on that yet. The 2" body lift makes all of this much easier to accomplish. Without it everything would be a lot tighter and I wouldn't be able to keep the stock hood. I have a 5.0 in there now and while it's not swimming around in there, there is room to work. According to a tech guy on the Bronco site I'm on (too much!):

"There are a few points that are a tighter fit. But it does drop right in and bolt in place. Oil pan is different as the rear cap is larger and the pan has to match. The heads sit higher on the block, so anything related to that needs addressing as well. But that is fairly minor stuff. If you did a late model 5.0 you would have issues as well. Different but still have issues that have to be delt with. The gains of a 351 are worth the little changes. I have seen Broncos with a 351 that looked stock, I had to do a double take to realize it was a 351. They do fit that well."

Something esle to keep in mind if you haven't is to build a 302 stroker, bore and stroke ot a 331 or 347.

 

[jlylec]

Just do a search on here, lost of info on wifi extenders has been shared.

Constantly reminded how we all are in this together on GJ, many of us face similar challenges getting our "realm" built

yeah you would think that after all the time i've spent on forums like this i'd be better at searching, but I'm terrible at it. I can never find what I'm looking for. Even when I'm looking for something I know I've seen before I have trouble finding it with search. I know this has to just be a personal problem as I'm sure the searching works, I just don't know how to do it properly!

I ran a search for this and read some stuff, but couldn't find anything about my similar situation. My house is wired so I'm hoping I can plug a wireless router in to a wall closer to the garage and it will pick up the signal via CAT5e in the wall and send it across. It looks like Ubiquity makes what I need, but I haven't been able to find actual set up instructions. Not sure if that picks up a wireless signal and amplifies and/or repeats it out, or if I plug that in to ethernet at the wall first. I'll search around and figure it out. Thanks man!

 

[jlylec]

Something esle to keep in mind if you haven't is to build a 302 stroker, bore and stroke ot a 331 or 347.

I thought about that too...I think heat is more of an issue, but I'm not sure. I'm really looking for just more torque and apparently the 351w is really the perfect motor for these old broncos. I'm just going off what I've read and heard though. I'll let you all know in a couple months what I think!

 

[jlylec]

Brick apron started on Friday. Looks like they should finish that on Monday...not much more to do there.

Also started the interior walls. Downstairs is going to be OSB so I can screw to it wherever and can't (easily) punch holes in it. Upstairs and ceilings will be normal drywall. 1x3" collar around the seam from OSB to drywall in the open space which will continue around to seam the transition from OSB to drywall on the ceiling on the main floor.

Coming down to the final touches. Paint, asphalt, and trim out. Then landscaping this spring.

 

[3PedalMINI]

Awesome!! Love your garage

 

[Rigpig]

Great build! Awesome scenery and views also. And yup, more pics of that EB.!!

 

[jlylec]

Thanks guys! It's coming along. Slowly but surely. Garage doors installed this week and drywall dropped off. They should knock out hanging that this week. Then final trim and paint. The working dormer coming in handy already!

Here's a pic of the bronco getting dropped a bit. Lowering it to a 3.5" suspension lift from a 5.5" lift. The 351w was finished this week and picked up today. I'm about a month away from having the entire drivetrain redone. Just in time for spring!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm glad to see that the wood post was replaced with a steel post for supporting the LVLs.

 

[jlylec]

I'm glad to see that the wood post was replaced with a steel post for supporting the LVLs.

yeah me too! When I first saw those 3 2x4s holding those up I was like, "umm guys..." I think they thought I was an idiot for thinking there was even a chance they were permanent. The steel post had to be bought long and cut because the height ended up not being a standard as we did a gentle slope in the pad. The back wall of the garage is 8" shorter than the front due to the concrete being deeper there. Should allow for water to drain easy when/if I want to spray it out. I opted for this instead of floor drains. Long story short...it took a couple weeks longer to get that steel post in!

 

[jlylec]

Drywall guys showed up this morning and left at lunch...all drywall hung! Amazing. Wife said they had a van of guys show up and just knock it out. They still have all the mud to do, but it should all get done this week. Almost there!

There's going to be a 1x4" collar to bridge the seam from OSB to drywall. Should look pretty good once it's all painted.

 

[kiosk]

I want this garage and love your house/neighborhood. gonna have to steal this design once I get a house.

 

[jlylec]

Thanks man! You don't have to steal the plans. I'll give them to you if you want them. It's flattering and they're not doing me any good locked up on my computer!

 

[kiosk]

PM sent thanks

 

[NUTTSGT]

Looks like they almost needed a 4th section of scaffolding.

 

[kiosk]

also wonder why not drywall the bottom half? id love that loft, id put shelves, desk, maybe tv, etc.

 

[jlylec]

also wonder why not drywall the bottom half? id love that loft, id put shelves, desk, maybe tv, etc.

I wanted the OSB actually for a few reasons:

1. You can screw stuff to it wherever you want and it's very hard to accidentally poke holes in it when you're working.
2. It adds structural rigidity to the building as well which is a nice bonus for me because I have a 20' tall set of walls making up the highest corner.
3. When you screw it in place it's easy to remove and replace if you ever need to get in the wall cavities.
4. Once everything is caulked and painted you can barely tell the difference.
5. It USED to be cheaper!

In today's crazy economy it's actually cheaper to hang and finish drywall which is nuts to me. Because of that I went ahead and just hung drywall up top. Cars won't be moving around up there so less chance of damage and the biggest space over the lift area will never need to removed or screwed to. Just made the most sense. Plus the biggest advantage to drywall is the ability to mud and finish the corners. So it'll look better up there. Around the bottom I'm going to continue the 1x4" collar and run it as "crown" mold (only nailed flat in the corner) to hide the seam from OSB to drywall on the ceiling.

Hope that all makes sense!

 

[kiosk]

makes complete sense. good ideas. drywall holes and being able to access and screw stuff to it is nice. especially for hanging cabinets and making work benches. im going to steal that idea too

 

[kiosk]

cant wait to see it all finished and painted. do you have plans for the workbenches, etc?

 

[kiosk]

sent pm, i think. did it go through?

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Those drywall guys really jumped all over that job! Can you imagine what a video would look like from the moment the crew piled out of the van until they rolled away? Must have been like a Chinese Fire Drill inside your garage! lol

As others have said, you've got a great design and well-executed!

Just a crazy 'suggestion' -
It seems it is common knowledge that OSB ***** paint and swallows light even then, so how about using that crown moulding as a 'wire chase' for wrap-around low voltage halogen spots/floods? If you went with 6"-8" face on the angle mounted moulding, and 4" for the flat mounted moulding (in the corner), the entire mould run should appear about the same height to an observer on the main floor. Using the wider moulding around the shop area would allow you to use either swivel surface-mount fixtures or recessed puck-style halogens for wall wash lighting or maybe even task lighting below.

It's definitely an additional expense up front, but being able to change the light source from straight FL's really changes the look of any space. Seeing the various shops on the thread 'http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70650&highlight=night' really illustrates how various light sources impact the overall 'look' of the garage.

 

[jlylec]

sent pm, i think. did it go through?

yup...just sent

 

[jlylec]

Those drywall guys really jumped all over that job! Can you imagine what a video would look like from the moment the crew piled out of the van until they rolled away? Must have been like a Chinese Fire Drill inside your garage! lol

As others have said, you've got a great design and well-executed!

Just a crazy 'suggestion' -
It seems it is common knowledge that OSB ***** paint and swallows light even then, so how about using that crown moulding as a 'wire chase' for wrap-around low voltage halogen spots/floods? If you went with 6"-8" face on the angle mounted moulding, and 4" for the flat mounted moulding (in the corner), the entire mould run should appear about the same height to an observer on the main floor. Using the wider moulding around the shop area would allow you to use either swivel surface-mount fixtures or recessed puck-style halogens for wall wash lighting or maybe even task lighting below.

It's definitely an additional expense up front, but being able to change the light source from straight FL's really changes the look of any space. Seeing the various shops on the thread 'http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70650&highlight=night' really illustrates how various light sources impact the overall 'look' of the garage.

hahah...yeah that's about what it was like apparently. We have a lot of orchards and vineyards around here so there are a lot of migrant latino workers that work those places in the warm months and do construction in the winter. They throw up houses like crazy, but unfortunately the quality isn't very good. I use a local father and sons builder for all my stuff to avoid quality issues. For things like drywall hanging though they do a great job...and are speedy quick!

that's a great and very cool idea about the lights. I really like it and I love the look of those halogen pucks as opposed to just the FL tubes. I'll have to talk to the electrician about that. Thanks!

 

[jlylec]

cant wait to see it all finished and painted. do you have plans for the workbenches, etc?

Yes the builder is building in workbenches and shelving down the non-lift side of the main floor and just a long bench upstairs directly above. Then the painter is going to come in and spray everything at once. Like that one guy said the OSB will **** up a lot of paint (a con to using OSB) so I'm having him spray a few heavy coats on everything. Then I'll probably have a few things painted different colors just to break up the white and make it not look so sterile. The concrete floor is going to be epoxied and the upstairs floor painted as well. I think I'm going with a mid-to-darkish green for the floor. A natural color. I still haven't decided what epoxy product to get.

 

[3PedalMINI]

I cant see the pictures