M12 FUEL subcompact drill and driver

[cgrutt]

Have a project tomorrow in NYC which will involve carrying some tools on train, subway and a bit of walking. Narrowed a bag down to "essentials" but its still 28 lbs. A large chunk of that is my M18 drill and battery and related bits. Thinking about buying the M12 Fuel subcompact set to cut down some weight. Thinking about just bringing the M12 impact driver and buying a few 1/4 quick connect bits. I just need to drill a few holes slightly larger than 3/4", possibly a few 1/4" holes for some plastic anchors then just some screws. Installing a few cameras, a switch and a couple patch panels.

Does anybody have the M12 subcompact drill and driver (3404-20 and 3453-20)? How do you like them? Would impact driver work OK as a drill for just a few holes (most likely in sheetrock but possibly some metal studs)? If so would smaller (2.0) battery work for a few hours (at most) or would the larger (4.0) battery be better? My goal is to cut weight as much as possible.

Thanks!

 

[willf650]

I have two sets of both of those and have used them for a few years exclusively for light electrical work. They will drill an 1 3/8 hole saw in low range if needed.

I did break one with a large hole saw. It split the seam in grip and I had to super glue it back together.

The drill would work fine for what you are talking about and if you’re looking to lose weight I would carry the drill and lose the impact. The drill can be used in place of the impact in most cases but not vice versa. The larger batteries make a difference. Most of mine are 3 or 4 amp hour.

 

[Rc_Guy]

You would need drill bits that chuck into the impact, I have those but not everyone does.

 

[cgrutt]

I have two sets of both of those and have used them for a few years exclusively for light electrical work. They will drill an 1 3/8 hole saw in low range if needed.

I did break one with a large hole saw. It split the seam in grip and I had to super glue it back together.

The drill would work fine for what you are talking about and if you’re looking to lose weight I would carry the drill and lose the impact. The drill can be used in place of the impact in most cases but not vice versa. The larger batteries make a difference. Most of mine are 3 or 4 amp hour.

That was my thought on bringing the M18 drill as well. Reason I asked if the impact could drill a few holes (instead of the drill) is its almost 1 lb lighter than the drill. I just need to drill a few holes, likely 7/8", in sheetrock so not really a big deal.

 

[cgrutt]

You would need drill bits that chuck into the impact, I have those but not everyone does.

Thats what I meant by "quick release" I have a few but only need a couple sizes for tomorrow I'll just pick them up tomorrow.

 

[jar944]

The 3453-20 impact will work fine

 

[willf650]

That was my thought on bringing the M18 drill as well. Reason I asked if the impact could drill a few holes (instead of the drill) is its almost 1 lb lighter than the drill. I just need to drill a few holes, likely 7/8", in sheetrock so not really a big deal.

I’ve never really used an impact to drill holes. Honestly I have both in 12 and 18 volt and use drills more than impacts.

It may be because I’m old and when I started with cordless tools impacts didn’t exist.

 

[cgrutt]

I’ve never really used an impact to drill holes. Honestly I have both in 12 and 18 volt and use drills more than impacts.

It may be because I’m old and when I started with cordless tools impacts didn’t exist.

Yeah ordinarily I'd use a drill too just trying to cut down on weight.

 

[finn]

I rarely use a drill for small holes. I use the hex end bits, and sometimes a step drill for larger holes, all with an impact.

It may be frowned on by purists, but it works for me.

I use the drill for thicker metal, though.

 

[darkzero]

FYI, The M12 Subcompacts 3450-20 & 3401-20 (nor the M18 Subcompacts) are not FUEL models. They are just basic brushless models with no added luxury features. In the past Fuel meant brushless but that's no longer the case now.

I have the M12 Subcompacts, even though I am not a fan of M12 ergonomics I am happy with them..... for their small size which is the main reason I bought them. They are not my primary use tools & I would not be happy with them if it was all I had. They are a supplement to my M18 Fuels which I uses primarily.

The 3450-20 impact driver has no bells & whistles, no modes & no quick collet. Doesn't have that much power compared to M12 Fuel but again the small size is what I got it for. For my needs the power vs the size is acceptable. I really wish it had a quick collet though.

My only dislike about he 3401-20 drill is that it's too slow. I really wish it was faster. The 3/8' capacity doesn't bother me.

I work in automotive related, not repairs. No idea how they would suit your needs.

 

[PugetDude]

My M12 impact driver hasn't been used in a couple of years. Drills get used every day; I think I have 6 or 7 of them between the two houses.

 

[cgrutt]

FYI, The M12 Subcompacts 3450-20 & 3401-20 (nor the M18 Subcompacts) are not FUEL models. They are just basic brushless models with no added luxury features. In the past Fuel meant brushless but that's no longer the case now.

I have the M12 Subcompacts, even though I am not a fan of M12 ergonomics I am happy with them..... for their small size which is the main reason I bought them. They are not my primary use tools & I would not be happy with them if it was all I had. They are a supplement to my M18 Fuels which I uses primarily.

The 3450-20 impact driver has no bells & whistles, no modes & no quick collet. Doesn't have that much power compared to M12 Fuel but again the small sizenis what I got it for. Inreally wish it had a quick collet though.

My only dislike about he 3401-20 drill is that it's too slow. I really wish it was faster. The 3/8' capacity doesn't bother me.

Thanks I believe the models I posted are FUEL I saw the non FUEL models but believe the FUEL models are physically smaller. These would definitely be supplemental I'm predominantly on M18 platform. I do have a few M12 tools though.

 

[LopezBart]

I use my M18 impact driver w/ hex base drill bits when I need to drill pilot holes on a ladder for my shop. Much easier than dragging both the drill and the impact up and down the ladder all day. Works fine for holes in sheet metal....

 

[willf650]

I looked up the model # he provided and they brought up the m12 fuels, not the subcompacts.

I have both m12 fuel and m12 subcompact and also M18s.

From my experience I could get away using an m12 fuel drill in place of an m18 for weight savings. I would not be able to use the m12 sub compact exclusively.


The subcompacts are a very recent addition for me and they were bought specifically to save weight and keep the impact in my tool bag.

 

[darkzero]

Does anybody have the M12 subcompact drill and driver (3404-20 and 3453-20)?

Woops, just realized those models are Fuel models.... they are not considered Subcompacts. A new line of M12 Subcompacts came out this year & are what I'm talking about in my previous post.

I don't own any but I have used M12 Fuels. They're decent powerful tools for their size. There were occasions where they couldn't do what M18 Fuels did but for most tasks they are sufficient.

 

[darkzero]

Thanks I believe the models I posted are FUEL I saw the non FUEL models but believe the FUEL models are physically smaller. These would definitely be supplemental I'm predominantly on M18 platform. I do have a few M12 tools though.

I just replied before seeing this reply.

To avoid any confusion, again Fuels & Subcompacts are completely different models. Fuel are top of the line.

These are the Subcompacts (non Fuel).

 

[cgrutt]

IDK @darkzero the Milwaukee product page as well as the Home depot description calls them subcompacts.

M12 FUEL™ 1/4" Hex Impact Driver | Milwaukee Tool

MILWAUKEE® M12 FUEL™ 1/4" Hex Impact Driver is the Fastest Subcompact Impact Driver, the Most Compact, and provides Maximum Workspace Visibility. 5" in length for access in tight spaces

www.milwaukeetool.com

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/products/3404-20

 

[darkzero]

IDK @darkzero the Milwaukee product page as well as the Home depot description calls them subcompacts.

M12 FUEL™ 1/4" Hex Impact Driver | Milwaukee Tool

MILWAUKEE® M12 FUEL™ 1/4" Hex Impact Driver is the Fastest Subcompact Impact Driver, the Most Compact, and provides Maximum Workspace Visibility. 5" in length for access in tight spaces

www.milwaukeetool.com

Right you are & I can't argue that. But I believe that's from before when a number of brands started offering what they called subcompact sized tools. Ridgid was one of the first. Dewalt with their Atomics. Used as a description & not actual model name.

This was long before MW came out with the M18 Subcompact models & this year the M12 Subcompacts, and just recently the M12 Subcompact Impact Wrench.

Now that there are actual Subcompact models, search M12 Subcompact & see what pops up now.

But no matter M12 Fuels should perform well for you. I just can't stand M12 grip size so I avoid them whenever possible.

 

[mngundog]

The drill, the impact and the Surge are all great. Home depot has the drill kit and the driver kit for $100 each and the pair for $200 that includes a cp2 and a XC4 battery. Included in all the deals it this kit

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-SHOCKWAVE-Impact-Duty-Alloy-Steel-Screw-Driver-Bit-Set-120-Piece-48-32-5155/325632525

 

[drmarkr]

Yeah ordinarily I'd use a drill too just trying to cut down on weight.

I use the impact fairly often to drill holes or for self-tappers. I highly recommend spending a few extra bucks and getting the Fuel model. Until you try one of those back to back with the standard model you won't appreciate how much nicer they are.

 

[cgrutt]

The drill, the impact and the Surge are all great. Home depot has the drill kit and the driver kit for $100 each and the pair for $200 that includes a cp2 and a XC4 battery. Included in all the deals it this kit

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-SHOCKWAVE-Impact-Duty-Alloy-Steel-Screw-Driver-Bit-Set-120-Piece-48-32-5155/325632525

Yeah the $200 combo is what I'm looking at. Thanks.

 

[cgrutt]

I use the impact fairly often to drill holes or for self-tappers. I highly recommend spending a few extra bucks and getting the Fuel model. Until you try one of those back to back with the standard model you won't appreciate how much nicer they are.

Yes they are FUEL as are most of my Milwaukee tools. I have a few that aren't though and they work fine.

 

[mngundog]

Yeah the $200 combo is what I'm looking at. Thanks.

I got that kit for both my sons, when they left home, you won't regret it. Don't forget to add the "free item", if you go that route.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M12-FUEL-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-Hammer-Drill-and-Impact-Driver-Combo-Kit-w-2-Batteries-and-Bag-2-Tool-3497-22/320268525?MERCH=REC-_-rv_gm_pip_rr-_-n/a-_-4-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a

 

[cgrutt]

I got that kit for both my sons, when they left home, you won't regret it. Don't forget to add the "free item", if you go that route.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M12-FUEL-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-Hammer-Drill-and-Impact-Driver-Combo-Kit-w-2-Batteries-and-Bag-2-Tool-3497-22/320268525?MERCH=REC-_-rv_gm_pip_rr-_-n/a-_-4-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a-_-n/a

Thanks! Didn't know about that I'll check it out.

 

[jar944]

The 3453-20 and it's predecessor will drive 10" structural screws or 6" ledger locks all day (with enough batteries) without issue. It will also drill 2" holes through wall studs if you need.

I grab the m12 drills/drivers much more frequently than the m18s.

 

[orangeblood]

same set at walmart for $169?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/1280720711

 

[cgrutt]

Aside from Home Depot employees being zero help, I'm super happy with it so far seems like I knocked 5 lbs off bag I'll check tonight. I can't believe how small these have become it also freed up alot of space in bag. I had a couple of 4 and 1.5 batteries and a 2.0 at home. Wound up taking a 2.0 and a 1.5 just to have spare. Bought some bits with the quick connect. On my way into project will report back later how it worked out.

 

[cgrutt]

So impact works fine but really didn't use it that hard. The size is pretty much perfect for this bag. Im probably going to put it in my backpack though.

I had a 2.0 battery and it was more than enough. Only drilled a few holes in sheetrock and set about two dozen plastic anchors. Had plenty of power but no idea how long it would hold up.

Bag is still too heavy. Walked maybe a couple miles and took two trains and two subways. It was pretty much a PITA lugging it around. Upper back hurts on opposite side from where I was carrying it which is kinda strange.

Had some bad CAT6 cable which was really unusual. Tested OK with my Klein LAN Scout but two of three cameras wouldn't pull up. Changed the ends, still tested OK and still didn't work. Plugged the cameras directly into the switch with a patch cord and they all came up. First time I can ever recall that happening. Have to order a new roll and come back and do it all over again next week. Bummer.

 

[richfinn]

I have the latest non Fuel M12 sub compact brushless impact driver, it's a great screwdriver, very small and lightweight with no gimmicky modes to worry about just left right and a variable trigger.

 

[MJK]

3453-20 is excellent, and clarks currently has it for $75.

 

[cgrutt]

So some pics for size comparison. The handles are extremely similar aside from battery attachment. The M12 is actually a bit thicker and seems more comfortable. Haven't tried the drill yet so don't have any comments performance wise. Have to think the M18 would come out ahead on that front.

Cut the weight by over 4 lbs between driver and bits. Very happy about that.

M18 drill almost 7 lbs with battery and bits



M12 impact driver 2 lbs 11 oz with battery and bits



Size comparison



M18 drill vs M12 drill

 

[Beerhippie]

I've heard so many horror stories about aluminum-conductor Ethernet cables dying after being buried in the walls I spent the extra bucks to be sure to get solid-copper-conductor cable. It still took three returns before I got a roll that actually was solid copper instead of copper-clad Aluminum.

 

[cgrutt]

I've heard so many horror stories about aluminum-conductor Ethernet cables dying after being buried in the walls I spent the extra bucks to be sure to get solid-copper-conductor cable. It still took three returns before I got a roll that actually was solid copper instead of copper-clad Aluminum.

This was new CAT6 cable and pretty sure it was solid copper.

 

[Beerhippie]

This was new CAT6 cable and pretty sure it was solid copper.

I had to use a razor to cut through the individual wires at a 45 degrees angle, then examine them through a 10X loupe to determine that they were copper-clad aluminum. Looking casually, they look like copper. Bend 'em back and forth a few times and they break.

Each of the three coils I returned claimed to be solid copper. Lies!

This is a known scam I'd been warned about by the local internet guys.

 

[cgrutt]

I had to use a razor to cut through the individual wires at a 45 degrees angle, then examine them through a 10X loupe to determine that they were copper-clad aluminum. Looking casually, they look like copper. Bend 'em back and forth a few times and they break.

Each of the three coils I returned claimed to be solid copper. Lies!

This is a known scam I'd been warned about by the local internet guys.

I got to go back next week I'll take a piece of the cable back. But it wasn't an old installation it was just installed and tested OK with my tester. I think my crimper may be worn and causing connectivity issue. I posted pics in another thread.

 

[Sal Bandini]

Bag is still too heavy. Walked maybe a couple miles and took two trains and two subways. It was pretty much a PITA lugging it around. Upper back hurts on opposite side from where I was carrying it which is kinda strange.

What about a backpack?

 

[cgrutt]

What about a backpack?

Yeah I have a backpack didn't feel like emptying it all out was just supposed to be a quick project but turned into more than it should have. I don't think I'm going to need much on next trip. I just didn't want to drive my truck into Manhattan for this. Just a one-off project.

 

[cgrutt]

Got to go back to project on Thursday found my old camera backpack got my "kit" down to 16 lbs!!!! This includes the M12 driver, battery and bits even though I think I could get away this time without them.