To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Machining and fabrication tips and tricks

OP
O

OccupantRJ

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
11,055
Location
Eastern North Carolina
I often have to make multiple parts of the same length on the engine lathe. I like to saw stock overlength, then face both ends. If I happen to have the collet setup in the lathe, that's a no-brainer as a collet stop can be used. If I am lazy, or the stock won't fit into a collet, I use a device called a lathe chuck spider. There are many variations on this device, but a simple one can be made out of a piece of thick sheet metal.

You simply cut out a shape from the metal that resembles a 3 blade flattened airplane propeller, about 6 inches in diameter. It is inserted flat between the 3 chuck jaws, and becomes trapped when the part is inserted and the chuck tightened. The carriage is locked down during facing, and subsequent parts inserted into the chuck use the spider as a backstop to keep all parts the same length. Google lathe chuck spider using Google images for many variations on this device.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

69supercj

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
555
This ones really basic but it works well. When welding round pipe/tubing together end to end, place the pieces in a piece of angle and use this as an alignment jig. I like to clamp them down as well with some C-clamp vice grips to hold things steady.
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
This ones really basic but it works well. When welding round pipe/tubing together end to end, place the pieces in a piece of angle and use this as an alignment jig. I like to clamp them down as well with some C-clamp vice grips to hold things steady.

Along with this, if you have the means, cut some of the back side of the "Vee" out, and it will let you flip the angle over and tack the other side also, so you don't have to roll the pipe as much.

This is also an easy way to make drill bit extensions. Just make sure you use the same size rod to match the drill i.e. a 1/4" drillbit and a 1/4" rod
 
Last edited:

383 240z

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
4,295
Location
Findley Twp. Allegheny Co.
There is a lot of variables that can cause a ****** finish. Do you sharpen your own tools? If so, I can almost bet you have a sharp point on them. If you buy the tool, you are probably buying a tool that is sharp. By that I mean it is a point on the end.

Whether carbide, or high speed steel, you want a slight radius on the end. ZCutting with a sharp tool will almost always give you a piece that looks "furry" Break the point by adding a slight radius. If you don't have one, buy a diamond hone. That is about the only thing you can use on carbide by hand. If High Speed Steel, use a hard India Stone. All you have to do is take a few swipes around the nose of the tool to radius. Something as small as a .005 radius will make all the difference in the world as to the finish.

Kevin, could you please post a photo of a cutting edge both pre and post radiusing? I'm pretty sure i know what you mean, just want to be certain. I use HSS most of the time. Keith
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Kevin, could you please post a photo of a cutting edge both pre and post radiusing? I'm pretty sure i know what you mean, just want to be certain. I use HSS most of the time. Keith

I don't know if my camera would pick it up, but I'll draw you a pic. On the left, when someone sharpens a tool, they try to get it as sharp as possible. But with almost any feed and speed combo, the tool will not coincide with the diameter of your stock, your feed, and your speed. So in turn, it will give you a rough "furry" finish. If you look at the tip of the same tool on the right, there is a very slight radius on the nose. It would actually take something like an electron microscope to show what a surface finish would actually look like, but with a very sharp point, under a microscope, it would show a very rough jagged surface. With even a .002 to a .005 radius, under a microscope would show a smooth but wavy surface, although undetectable by the eye or not able to really being able to measure.

In the second pic is a highly exaggerated sketch as to what I am trying to convey. You can never get an absolute smooth surface, but a slight radius can give you a mirror finish vs. a zero radius tool.

Also if you are using a HSS toolbit, you can use a standard India stone, or a fine stone on your bench grinder to break the edge. If you are using a carbide insert that has Zero radius, you need to use a diamond hone to break the edge. A diamond hone can be bought for $10 or so. Also if you are using carbide inserts instead od an insert silver soldered on to a toolbit, you can order inserts in a variety of radiuses, from .005 on up.

On thing you have to remember though that the larger the radius, the more the tool pressure there is, and depending on the material, you can generate a lot of heat, possibly work harden or put hard spots in the material, and the larger the radius, the more chance of chatter. So you have to find that fine sweet spot that you are looking for yet not distort the tool or the workpiece.

A lot of boring bars you buy will have zero radius ad will give you a ****** bore. Breaking the tip with a slight radius will eliminate the ****** finish, but with a boring bar, and with one not being as rigid as a turning tool, the larger the radius the larger the chance of flex. When your boring bar flexes, you will get a tapered bore. The sharper the radius, the less the flex, but again, you still need a couple of thousandths to get the sweet spot you need.

I've have always told everyone that I have trained to run a machine....."Become one with the machine, become one with the material". You have to envision in your head what is going on. Envision what the cutter is doing if it was running in very slow motion. See with your eyes, and see with your ears. Sometimes you can see more by sound than you can by sight.

Also, like you learned in school years ago....heat expands, cold contracts. If you have ever worked in a factory with a dedicated Inspection Room, the room is kept as a consistent 70-72 degrees. Some factories will let a piece of work set for an hour for it to acclimate to the temperature of the room before inspecting the part. For the average person, it may not make a difference, but to highly precision parts for medical, aerospace, outer space, it is highly important. In machining some parts, you can make a cut, the part is hot to the touch, but if you mic it, the part is right up to size. Later on, when you go to assemble that part to another part, they won't fit. You check your part again and it is .003 smaller than before. That is on a solid part. But if you were turning a part in the lathe and boring out the center, depending on material, the bore may end up being large, or the bore may end up being too small. So if your part is hot, you ALWAYS want to let it cool before making your final cut, and for your final cut, you only want to take a few thousandths.

Hopefully I answered your question and probably made it as clear as mud with all the other rattling on. :eyecrazy: Hopefully it answered it though, and if you have any other questions, I'll be more than happy to try and answer them. The only thing I love more than machining is my wife and my son. :thumbup:




attachment.php


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • radius.jpg
    radius.jpg
    138.8 KB · Views: 1,099
  • sharp and radius.jpg
    sharp and radius.jpg
    122.1 KB · Views: 1,094

383 240z

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
4,295
Location
Findley Twp. Allegheny Co.
Ok so I just need to break the sharp point where it touches the work. I have been doing that with great results. My insert holders use the TT-321 type inserts. I have found way better finishes are to be had with the TT-323 due to the rounded edge.

On the HSS bits I have been putting that rounded edge on with a regular stone. On the inserts I was just buying the TT-322 and TT-323's with the rounded edge. The TT-xx1 has the sharp edge, the TT-xx2 is a little more rounded and the TT-xx3 are real rounded.

Keith
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Ok so I just need to break the sharp point where it touches the work. I have been doing that with great results. My insert holders use the TT-321 type inserts. I have found way better finishes are to be had with the TT-323 due to the rounded edge.

On the HSS bits I have been putting that rounded edge on with a regular stone. On the inserts I was just buying the TT-322 and TT-323's with the rounded edge. The TT-xx1 has the sharp edge, the TT-xx2 is a little more rounded and the TT-xx3 are real rounded.

Keith

See....I didn't need to type ANYTHING. You're on top of it already!!!!! :thumbup:
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Ok so I just need to break the sharp point where it touches the work. I have been doing that with great results. My insert holders use the TT-321 type inserts. I have found way better finishes are to be had with the TT-323 due to the rounded edge.

On the HSS bits I have been putting that rounded edge on with a regular stone. On the inserts I was just buying the TT-322 and TT-323's with the rounded edge. The TT-xx1 has the sharp edge, the TT-xx2 is a little more rounded and the TT-xx3 are real rounded.

Keith

Keith....The radius on the nose of the inserts are as follows: TPG-320/.008 radius, TPG-321/.015 rad., TPG-322 /.031 rad., and TPG-323 is .062 radius.

The TT and the TPG is the designation as to the grinding of the insert.
 

383 240z

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
4,295
Location
Findley Twp. Allegheny Co.
I don't have a proper bit grinder, I'm just using my old bench grinder with a regular grey wheel. Kinda on the coarse side. After I dress them, I just polish the edge with the stone. Should I be doing the whole thing or am I OK with just the part that touches the work? Would I be better off with a special grinding wheel. Kieth
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
I don't have a proper bit grinder, I'm just using my old bench grinder with a regular grey wheel. Kinda on the coarse side. After I dress them, I just polish the edge with the stone. Should I be doing the whole thing or am I OK with just the part that touches the work? Would I be better off with a special grinding wheel. Kieth

No need for a special grinding wheel, although you may want to make sure your wheel is fairly on the fine side, and make sure you have a wheel dresser to keep your wheel true. As long as you grind both sides, then break the nose with a hand India stone, or even doing in by pivoting the toolbit so you have a slight radius, you should be in good shape.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

larry_g

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
16,878
Location
oregon
A tip;

Make sure you have your head in the game. The other day I had a bit of iron to square up and attempted to do it on the horizontal mill. Set up an arbor and cutter and just couldn't get it to cut smoothly. Gave up and did it on the grinder. A day or two later tried again to square another piece and discovered I had put the cutter on backwards. I was tired when I first assembled and made a rookie mistake.

I was lucky that the only damage was to ruin a very expensive cutter.

lg
no neat sig line
 

TheEquineFencer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
9,278
Location
Farmville, NC 27828
Here are a couple of quick sketches showing how to measure for sheetmetal length needed to fab up a part. These are just simple sketches but will also apply to complicated parts if you know your angles and radii. There are quite a few charts out there showing bend radii dimensions and almost all of the charts vary from each other. Over the years I have found this is the best way to figure it. Most will come to within .010 of what is needed depending on the materials. I always use the middle of the material for the radius. So note the material thickness of the sections shown. I forgot to mention on the second sketch that the inside radius is 1/2" or .500


I'll post up a more complicated sheetmetal part in a little while.

This is helpful....I've been guessing at it....
 

matt_i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
10,726
Location
SE Michigan
Wanted to add W-1 drill rod (in the annealed state) as an all-around go-to material in my shop, especially for lathe work. It turns to a better finish than CRS, its weldable without any special treatment, and sometimes the polished OD can be used to your advantage without any machine work at all. It can still be bent if necessary like CRS or HRS.
 
OP
O

OccupantRJ

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
11,055
Location
Eastern North Carolina
To add to what Matt said, I learned to use A2 tool steel for a lot of the small punch, forming, and shear die parts at work. Previously, some of the parts were made of O1 and went through the typical heat treat process, which took time out of production when a breakage occurred, often from an inattentive operator. On a breakage of a 3-1/2" long punch press broach at a crucial time, I used A2 to make the splined broach, then went to the brazing table and heated it up by eye. When the part cooled, I set it up in the die and told them to run it. No tempering, nothing. The broach ran as well and as long as any other we had done with all the proper methods, so I started doing certain small pieces that way. S7 tool steel also worked well in that manner. That was 20 years ago, and when I retired last year, I was still using that method. It just worked.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom