Made in the USA

[four.cycle]

I'd buy more American if it weren't so expensive...
Point me to cheap American socket sets?

Sure, I can do that:

Oxwall 8-pc 1/4" drive SAE socket set (sockets and driver)
new NOS (listed as used - still in original package)
$11.99 incl. shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OXWALL-USA-...779459?hash=item3d30be3f43:g:6Z4AAOSwcUBYLccJ

Oxwall 10-pc 1/4" drive SAE socket set (sockets, driver, extension)
used. like new.
$16.00 + $3.90 shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-OXW...578034?hash=item58e9db2ff2:g:R3AAAOSw5cNYTHKI

I could do this all day - there are all kinds of low-end Oxwall, G.M. Mfg. Co., and early US-made Zomax and Globemaster items listed on Ebay.
Part of the problem is that people seem to have forgotten that cheap was always cheap. If you wanted decent US-made quality you paid for it.
Old US-made Craftsman was affordable, it wasn't cheap. Other brands like S-K, Proto, Challenger, Bonney, ad infinitum were never cheap - some where just higher than others. People understood that good-quality US-made tools cost more. Somewhere along the way, people seem to have forgotten that higher-quality goods cost more money.

Nobody wants to pay the price for quality US-made products, so they settle for cheezy Chinese **** because it's cheaper.

I'd suggest actually sitting down and watching the YouTube video that was cited on the first page of this thread:

What you believe is "cheaper" today will turn out to be far more costly over the long term.


(* and no, I'm not really interested in any smart-*** remarks about "Chinese-made computers" or "Chinese-made cell phones". *)

 

[tdellenburg]

four.cycle I'm afraid that, like so many or our politicians and ceo's, far too many people are willing to bury their heads in the sand and kick the can down the road. They think it's never affect them, and don't worry about the "few" whom may be affected. They don't consider that people who don't have jobs don't have money for mechanics, electricians, plumbers, Pizza Hut's, or the local dry cleaners. I've been preaching this for a couple decades now, they will listen, but only when it's too late.

 

[B_Bimmer]

Never give up. Never, never, never.

 

[four.cycle]

"... far too many people are willing to bury their heads in the sand and kick the can down the road. They think it's never affect them, and don't worry about the "few" whom may be affected."

The "few" who will be affected will be their children and grandchildren, who will be saddled with the debt that is being incurred as we speak now.
There was a woman in that video - toward the end - who decided to not buy "made in China". She discovered that she could not find a microwave that was not made in China, so they don't have a microwave.
Resistance is not futile: just don't buy it.

When I started working full time, every hard part we sold was made in the greater Chicago area, or in the Los Angeles basin, or somewhere along the great lakes region. At that time, it was illegal to own or trade in any items made in the People's Republic of China. Virtually all of that manufacturing base has been moved offshore, most of it to China.

The economy is not sustainable without a strong manufacturing base. What is it that is so difficult about that to understand?

 

[zendriver]

As hard as it sounds, don't blame it on the companies, but on the bad policies implemented by those in Washington who don't give a F$%$#.

And enjoy your Tekton tools

BS

There are hundreds of thousands of factories, still operating and making a nice profit, in the U.S.

How do they manage to get it done?

Gross output of U.S. manufacturing industries — counting products produced for final use as well as those used as intermediate inputs — totaled $6.2 trillion in 2015, about 36% of U.S. gross domestic product, nearly double the output of any of the other big sectors: professional and business services, government and real estate

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...utput-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

 

[zendriver]

Interesting point never brought up in the "blame China" threads.

We send a lot of money over there purchased their low priced goods and what do they do with it?

China invested some $64 billion in the US between 1990 and 2015, making last year’s number of $45 billion particularly remarkable. Total cumulative FDI since 1990 now stands at $109 billion, according to the report, published on Dec. 30

https://qz.com/876693/chinese-investment-in-the-us-skyrocketed-in-2016/

China has had approximately 4 trillion dollars of US reserves since mid-2014. Like the US, it also exports to other regions like Europe. The Euro forms the second biggest tranche of Chinese forex reserves. China needs to invest such huge stockpiles to earn at least the risk-free rate. With trillions of US dollars, China has found the US treasury securities to offer the safest investment destination for Chinese forex

Read more: The Reasons Why China Buys U.S. Treasury Bonds | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/article...hina-buys-us-treasury-bonds.asp#ixzz4YR5y1FID
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

 

[four.cycle]

 

[zendriver]

Sure, I can do that:

Oxwall 8-pc 1/4" drive SAE socket set (sockets and driver)
new NOS (listed as used - still in original package)
$11.99 incl. shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OXWALL-USA-...779459?hash=item3d30be3f43:g:6Z4AAOSwcUBYLccJ

Oxwall 10-pc 1/4" drive SAE socket set (sockets, driver, extension)
used. like new.
$16.00 + $3.90 shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-OXW...578034?hash=item58e9db2ff2:g:R3AAAOSw5cNYTHKI

I could do this all day - there are all kinds of low-end Oxwall, G.M. Mfg. Co., and early US-made Zomax and Globemaster items listed on Ebay.
Part of the problem is that people seem to have forgotten that cheap was always cheap. If you wanted decent US-made quality you paid for it.
Old US-made Craftsman was affordable, it wasn't cheap. Other brands like S-K, Proto, Challenger, Bonney, ad infinitum were never cheap - some where just higher than others. People understood that good-quality US-made tools cost more. Somewhere along the way, people seem to have forgotten that higher-quality goods cost more money.

Nobody wants to pay the price for quality US-made products, so they settle for cheezy Chinese **** because it's cheaper.

I'd suggest actually sitting down and watching the YouTube video that was cited on the first page of this thread:

What you believe is "cheaper" today will turn out to be far more costly over the long term.


(* and no, I'm not really interested in any smart-*** remarks about "Chinese-made computers" or "Chinese-made cell phones". *)

I'm thinking by "cheap", he meant price, not quality.

 

[zendriver]

There was a woman in that video - toward the end - who decided to not buy "made in China". She discovered that she could not find a microwave that was not made in China, so they don't have a microwave.
Resistance is not futile: just don't buy it.


The economy is not sustainable without a strong manufacturing base. What is it that is so difficult about that to understand?

What would be the end game?

Everybody In America quits buying microwave ovens. Someone Opens a microwave factory here, but the ovens cost $400? How much will these employees be paid?

If we bring all these factories back, who is going to work in them? Will anyone even want to?

The don't seem to now.

The program, which is beginning its third year, is part of a changing mindset among factory managers — and a changing workforce. Indiana, the state most dependent on manufacturing, could be short as many as 1 million manufacturing employees by 2025 as longtime workers retire and as employers complain of difficulties in finding new workers with the right skills.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/in...rkers-go-back-to-the-drawing-board-2016-09-21

 

[tdellenburg]

Where did all you guys buy the made in USA computers, cellphones or tablets you are typing on? I have looked and looked for these made in USA and can't seem to find any, please share your source.

Just because we can't, doesn't mean we can't TRY!

If they made a comp I'm America I would buy it. I've hunted them to. If you find them please report back!

 

[American Locomotive]

Lenovo assembles some ThinkPads here, and I believe Apple might also assemble some Mac Pros here as well.

However, the components inside certainly will not be of U.S. origin. Intel manufacturers processor wafers here, and some solid-state memory chips are made domestically as well. However these components are usually shipped overseas for final assembly and packaging.

 

[four.cycle]

I'm thinking by "cheap", he meant price, not quality.

I have no doubt that was what he meant. That's why I answered the way I did.
What part of that wasn't clear?

Everybody In America quits buying microwave ovens. Someone Opens a microwave factory here, but the ovens cost $400? How much will these employees be paid?

If we bring all these factories back, who is going to work in them? Will anyone even want to?

^ This is where your argument is flawed.
In 1965, my mother bought one of the first microwave ovens produced by Litton Industries. She got a hell of a deal on it with bonus points for selling Purolator filters - it was only $600.00 (in 1965). Her friend, Gail K., also went in with her and purchased one for the same price (since they had an abundance of Purolator bonus points.) The $600.00 price was about 50% of the manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time. It is worth noting that in spite of my younger sister and I abusing the hell out if for years doing demonstations for our friends on what balls of aluminum foil did inside microwave ovens, the damn thing was still working great until I finally donated it to the thrift store up the street a couple years ago only because it was so huge.

The entire premise of your argument is based on the presumption that consumer goods in 2017 US dollars should sell for less than they did 50 years ago.
I'm sorry, but I'm just having a difficult time following your logic there.

As for the very tired "cell phones and computers" argument: is that really all ya got? If US-made computers and cell phones were available, people might buy them.

Instead of firing back with the same "sound bite" arguments about cell phones and computers (which are nonsensical at best, as American consumers no longer have the option of choice), address the larger issue of moving our entire manufacturing base along with the technology used to develop products (like Boeing aircraft)?
.

 

[TorKe]

Lenovo assembles some ThinkPads here, and I believe Apple might also assemble some Mac Pros here as well.

However, the components inside certainly will not be of U.S. origin. Intel manufacturers processor wafers here, and some solid-state memory chips are made domestically as well. However these components are usually shipped overseas for final assembly and packaging.

They can just slap a MADE IN USA with foreign materials like Stanley does it.

 

[zendriver]

^ This is where your argument is flawed.
In 1965, my mother bought one of the first microwave ovens produced by Litton Industries. She got a hell of a deal on it with bonus points for selling Purolator filters - it was only $600.00 (in 1965). Her friend, Gail K., also went in with her and purchased one for the same price (since they had an abundance of Purolator bonus points.) The $600.00 price was about 50% of the manufacturer's suggested retail price at the time. It is worth noting that in spite of my younger sister and I abusing the hell out if for years doing demonstations for our friends on what balls of aluminum foil did inside microwave ovens, the damn thing was still working great until I finally donated it to the thrift store up the street a couple years ago only because it was so huge.

The entire premise of your argument is based on the presumption that consumer goods in 2017 US dollars should sell for less than they did 50 years ago.
I'm sorry, but I'm just having a difficult time following your logic there.

As for the very tired "cell phones and computers" argument: is that really all ya got? If US-made computers and cell phones were available, people might buy them.

Instead of firing back with the same "sound bite" arguments about cell phones and computers (which are nonsensical at best, as American consumers no longer have the option of choice), address the larger issue of moving our entire manufacturing base along with the technology used to develop products (like Boeing aircraft)?
.

I didn't make any comments about cell phones computer, that was another user.

Not going out on a limb,by stating that the world of industry, has changed significantly, since 1965. Current consumers are mostly used to paying less than $100 for a microwave oven. Can we open a profitable U.S. factory and pay employees a good wage, selling one for under $100? Or, will they be expected to pay $300 or more, for the same chintzy microwave, that last 10 years? Will the workers have to be part time, minimum wage, which works well nowdays. Frankly i just don't seeing it happening.

One of the popular misconceptions about Chinese vs American made goods, is that we Americans like to think "it's all about us" that we are the only one's "stuck" buying Chinese products.

The truth is that formerly American made product brands, now made in China, are now sold all over the world. Other countries could care less, about where the products are made, so will they be happy paying considerably more, for the products once again made in the states?

Of course not and manufacturing Corporations are keenly aware of this fact.

 

[Tinner]

Just curious what the wage rates are in Taiwan compared to China? Everything gets compared back to China, but as its been shown most of the high quality import hand tools are coming out of Taiwan.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Minimum wage in China is set locally. At current exchange rates it varies from a few cents an hour to around $2.80, the high in Shanghai.

The Taiwanese minimum wage is currently $3.88/hr at current rates. However, many skilled jobs pay within 20-30% of their US equivalents.

Taiwanese manufacturers are much more stringent on quality requirements, from raw materials to finished goods, than their counterparts on the mainland. It costs considerably more to manufacture in Taiwan than China, but still a bit less than the US.

 

[jrockford]

masterforce sockets/rats are being phased out and restocked with gearwrench

This happened fast.

I was in there just before Christmas and their shelves were full.

Some of their extensions were sold out, but I just assumed it was because of the time of year.

I wonder what will become of their warranty.

 

[tdellenburg]

I wonder what will become of their warranty.

I've only been a member here for a few days, but I think you're considered the devil here if you care about your warranty!!!

 

[wmm2]

I've only been a member here for a few days, but I think you're considered the devil here if you care about your warranty!!!

I think you're only seeing the tail end of some discussions. There have been members saying they would get rid of tools they already owned (such as US Craftsman) because they are concerned that they couldn't get them replaced if Sears goes out of business. It's not so much that you're the devil for being concerned about warranty. It's more that it's not logical to take a financial loss and get rid of paid for tools you already own, because they might break and couldn't be replaced under warranty. You could just buy a different brand, or a used same brand replacement for less money than you would lose by selling the tools that you are concerned about breaking.

 

[jrockford]

I've only been a member here for a few days, but I think you're considered the devil here if you care about your warranty!!!

I've only been a member just a tad longer.

Seems like you're the devil if you:

a.) Question, belittle, bash etc. Snap-On's warranty, COO, quality or price of certain tools.
b.) Do the above to GW even though they are on opposite sides of the spectrum.

On a side note, I still don't know where the Snap On f80 is made.

 

[bushmechanic]

Where did all you guys buy the made in USA computers, cellphones or tablets you are typing on? I have looked and looked for these made in USA and can't seem to find any, please share your source.

With some things, you have to look at what's outside and inside. Computers are like that, but you also have to determine what you're rewarding: Origin only, or skill and attention to detail?

You can indeed buy a computer that features parts nearly exclusively from the USA, Japan, Taiwan, and Germany, and was hand built and tuned here in the States; right down to the keyboard.

Remember: We have friends, too, and we do pretty well with them in trade.

Some industries weren't ripped away from us. The computer industry spread throughout the world organically as it developed, but gravitated naturally to new construction.

Even China isn't China. Hong Kong produced parts come from a dramatically different environment than those produced in Mainland China, but China can be avoided almost entirely if you really look hard.

The best thing to do is to focus on builders in the USA. I can tell you that from Falcon Northwest you can cherry pick your parts to originate entirely as illustrated above, or just ask them to do it for you.

Caselabs makes very good cases in the US; extremely well-respected in the custom computer world, but you'll have to pay for them. If you want a US built computer, and would rather build than buy, you could do a lot worse than starting with them.

Of course, you'll pay the price for buying American, or focusing on owning something our buddies made with us. It's going to be expensive. There is no $500 computer in that category; there can't be.

...that's the problem, in the end. Some of us will put the cash in and buy something once, to live with and upgrade it over the long haul.

To a computer guy, watching someone buy a new computer because "it's time" is like watching someone buy a new car just because it's a bit down on power or needs a solid detailing.

 

[Tinner]

On a side note, I still don't know where the Snap On f80 is made.

It's made in USA, just like all their sockets and drive tools. Snap-on lists COO for everything on their website.

 

[MBfreak]

Totally off topic. Sorry but ..

Tdellenburg. Your AVATAR is interesting.
Three resistors in a delta, 3 more in a Y. No conns between the D and Y.
Suppose you join the Y and Delta points in three points all resistors are 1 Ohm.
What will be the resistance measured from one corner to another?

Best regards

Ola

 

[jrockford]

It's made in USA, just like all their sockets and drive tools. Snap-on lists COO for everything on their website.

Good to know. I just checked their site and it does indeed say USA.

I found a thread here stating just the opposite.

 

[tdellenburg]

Totally off topic. Sorry but ..

Tdellenburg. Your AVATAR is interesting.
Three resistors in a delta, 3 more in a Y. No conns between the D and Y.
Suppose you join the Y and Delta points in three points all resistors are 1 Ohm.
What will be the resistance measured from one corner to another?

Best regards

Ola

Ha. Interesting observation. I'll do the math when I get home, never really thought about that.

 

[tdellenburg]

.666666 ohms

 

[metaldad]

we need a 'like' button

 

[T45]

I've only been a member just a tad longer.

Seems like you're the devil if you:

a.) Question, belittle, bash etc. Snap-On's warranty, COO, quality or price of certain tools.
b.) Do the above to GW even though they are on opposite sides of the spectrum.

On a side note, I still don't know where the Snap On f80 is made.

Na, the default response is that "USA is awesome" and "snap on is overpriced". The problem is that the "awesome" usa stuff is expensive.

The warranty theads are almost always craftsman people. for al intents an dpurposes, cman usa warranty is ****...the tools you get are not what you bought. thinking that their craftsman tools are better than they really are, because of the warranty...and so tools with a different warranty start out below craftsman...:

snap on warranty is not like cman warranty...as SO only is warranty for first buyer...so when people complain its more about ignorance...nobody is being enlightened.

so, to recap: cheap usa tools are cheap. expensvive toosl are expensive. cman warranty ***** and snap on warranty is limited. don't pretend what you are buying is what it is not, and nobody will correct you.

 

[MBfreak]

tdellenburg.
Sorry, not correct.
Give it another try .
A good start is to make a drawing of the net. Look for points with same voltage.

Ola

 

[tdellenburg]

tdellenburg.
Sorry, not correct.
Give it another try .
A good start is to make a drawing of the net. Look for points with same voltage.

Ola

If it's not correct per your calculations the it's not correct only because we are connecting it in different series/parallel arrangements. My math is perfect, except that I didn't carry it the full 8 decimal places my calculator displayed!

 

[turnthewrench]

thats the real reason labor is the biggest cost for any business

Excessive regulations - federal, state, local - are, IMHO, the biggest cost for American companies. You need to write four, four hundred pages write up report just to fire some a$hole who, literally, shitted on your head... and don't get me started on blood-sucking unions!

 

[tdellenburg]

snap on warranty is not like cman warranty...as SO only is warranty for first buyer...so when people complain its more about ignorance...nobody is being enlightened.

So am I to understand that snap on does not warranty a tool if I buy it used?

 

[turnthewrench]

we need a 'like' button

Yo, moderators!

Thank you for deleting my previous-to-last post.
Sad, believe me!

 

[Tonellin]

So am I to understand that snap on does not warranty a tool if I buy it used?

Apparently. Yet the nut huggers on this board say the craftsman warranty is ****

 

[metaldad]

Apparently. Yet the nut huggers on this board say the craftsman warranty is ****

hand tools are CONSUMABLES. they break, wear out. **** doesnt last forever in 'like new' condition
i wrench for a living, and can count on 1 hand how many times i have actually broken a tool not on purpose, or used a warranty

 

[jrockford]

I don't wrench professionally, but I've never had 1 failure in all my years. I did have 2 Craftsman exchanges because of poor quality though. Someone forgot to break some edges.

With the SO warranty, do they keep your name on file? Say I buy that f80 from their site and it was to break.. they'd just look up my info and go from there?

 

[tdellenburg]

hand tools are CONSUMABLES. they break, wear out. **** doesnt last forever in 'like new' condition
i wrench for a living, and can count on 1 hand how many times i have actually broken a tool not on purpose, or used a warranty

I watched an interview with SK today by Harry Epstein, and SK doesn't sound like that. Unless I misunderstood, they warranty every tool that has their name on it for everything except abuse. I've never bought any snap on tools, mainly just because Armstrong, Wright, and SK have served me well at less than half the price. But I have been "considering" since this Armstrong fiasco, at least until I started learning more about their, uh, warranty!?!?

I would think that, for their price, it would be the tool that was warranted, not the purchaser...

 

[zendriver]

Excessive regulations - federal, state, local - are, IMHO, the biggest cost for American companies.

Can you present some facts, to back up your claim? Thanks

 

[WWheeler]

So am I to understand that snap on does not warranty a tool if I buy it used?

That is correct. Snap-on's lifetime warranty only officially applies to the original purchaser, not to their tools bought secondhand.

https://www1.snapon.com/display/termsofsale.nws

[...] This warranty only extends to the original Customer and cannot be transferred or assigned. [..]

That said, they don't typically require a receipt, so if you have a an established relationship with a dealer that you have bought from before, then you might not have any trouble at all getting a tool you bought used warrantied/repaired though him/her, but if you're just some unknown person walking up with a broken tool that the dealer might suspect was bought secondhand, then your chances are much much less so.

 

[oldtools]

.666666 ohms

Isn't that the devil number.

 

[Parrothead]

Excessive regulations - federal, state, local - are, IMHO, the biggest cost for American companies. You need to write four, four hundred pages write up report just to fire some a$hole who, literally, shitted on your head... and don't get me started on blood-sucking unions!

You must not be in an "at will" state. I could fire people because it's...Tuesday, or cloudy, or whatever.