As much as it ***** I think this is exactly right.
People are real quick to suggest a lawyer for everything but those guys don't work cheap. At least the good ones don't.
MAJOR Concrete issue! Options?
- Thread starter FL Guy
- Start date
As much as it ***** I think this is exactly right.
People are real quick to suggest a lawyer for everything but those guys don't work cheap. At least the good ones don't.
Sika 623 works really well for that but it's not self levelling.
Renegade1LI
Well-known member
I believe it was sika top plus 123, i will look up the submittal when i get to the office.
Walkers
Well-known member
I am a contractor in Arizona (Iron, not concrete).We are required to carry both insurance and a bond. Our Registrar of Contractors also acts as performance surety. My Liability policy covers defective workmanship, as that is a liability, not just someone getting hurt. For example, a wrong PSI concrete footer could caused a building collapse, therefor it is a luability.
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but GOOD LUCK getting a dime out of the contractor. Perhaps they are upstanding, insured, honest and may fix the issue if you present it to them in a calm, firm, and descriptive manner about what would make it right.
A lawyer will cost you more than a new slab.
After that fails, I think you'll find you are going to be just fine on that slab. Those tube steel buildings are light (I have one myself), your site prep looks good from the few pictures you posted (level ground , not on a slope with backfill/washout issues, etc..).
I would enjoy yor building and not worry at this point.
A lawyer will cost you more than a new slab.
After that fails, I think you'll find you are going to be just fine on that slab. Those tube steel buildings are light (I have one myself), your site prep looks good from the few pictures you posted (level ground , not on a slope with backfill/washout issues, etc..).
I would enjoy yor building and not worry at this point.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
I run a lot of commercial concrete jobs. Occasionally we’ll get a low break, but nothing like you have. I’m not sure added water would get that low after 40+ days. Start with the concrete supplier, they will be willing to help at least to try to deflect blame; but you will get some info from them. Driver should have noted amount of added water, and should have got a release signed if it was excessive.
Mainiac Mat
Well-known member
I honestly think your best option is to just live with it.
If you're concerned about anchors pulling out, add additional ones. It's not like you're going to survive a hurricane regardless.
If the surface isn't hard enough... see if you can get a shallow (3") pour of 4,000# mix over the top.
It ***** that you didn't get what you paid for. But it will probably still meet your needs.
I agree it's best to keep the gub'ment out of your business. They will only limit your options.
If you're concerned about anchors pulling out, add additional ones. It's not like you're going to survive a hurricane regardless.
If the surface isn't hard enough... see if you can get a shallow (3") pour of 4,000# mix over the top.
It ***** that you didn't get what you paid for. But it will probably still meet your needs.
I agree it's best to keep the gub'ment out of your business. They will only limit your options.
Zeke
Well-known member
Seems like that might work in your favor. No rebar in the slab so easy to remove after a sawcut inside the footings. How good is the base? I ask because 20 years ago CalTrans beat a concrete freeway into a cracked mess of concrete, compacted it and put new crete down over the top. Still working as a good freeway.
I'd only worry about pushing the walls out with too much of that type of demo.
Leaflessshadetree
Well-known member
It's a lot easier than most people think. Certainly easier than disassembling and reassembling. I lifted a two car garage to replace the sill plate and repair some foundation issues. Just me with some common tools (I had 2 bottle jacks to do the lifting). BTW: I'm not a big guy and don't work in construction.
This great to harden the surface. But what about the 4” of concrete below the surface?
I’m curious to know how you did this. The building didn’t twist?
They move 100+ year old houses, big ones at that. Its all possible, but probably not realistic here.
juddspaintballs
Well-known member
I'd be willing to bet it's not that hard to lift a lightweight metal building like that.
I appreciate the advice. I did plan on putting a gantry crane in the building. But no way I can trust bolting anything to the concrete. Since it’s so soft, I wonder if a wedge bolt would push the concrete wall wider when you tighten it down and eventually just fall out?
Update from engineering company.
Apparently when the cores of concrete are not a specific length they have to do a calculation correction to get the exact psi strength. The numbers I posted in my original post on top are what the cores broke at. But with the calculation correction, that apparently is a standard when determining the strength of concrete, it shows the following.
These numbers below are going in the report
Cores 1 & 2 average 1460 psi.
Core 3 is 3460
Apparently when the cores of concrete are not a specific length they have to do a calculation correction to get the exact psi strength. The numbers I posted in my original post on top are what the cores broke at. But with the calculation correction, that apparently is a standard when determining the strength of concrete, it shows the following.
These numbers below are going in the report
Cores 1 & 2 average 1460 psi.
Core 3 is 3460
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Big Bad Dad
Well-known member
Nice looking guys. Appalachian Americans... aka Hillbillies!Well sure. IF ya got the right animals.
nitroracer20
Well-known member
This is a tough one FLman. I couldnt imagine a good resolution for all parties without financial loss on each party.
Id say let it ride and keep an eye on things. I like willys idea of adding more anchoring. You in hurricane area??
Youve wisely paid for concrete testing, if you want peace of mind id pay an engineer for their oppinion. Those $$ will go further than any litigation $$.
Id say let it ride and keep an eye on things. I like willys idea of adding more anchoring. You in hurricane area??
Youve wisely paid for concrete testing, if you want peace of mind id pay an engineer for their oppinion. Those $$ will go further than any litigation $$.
Thanks man!
My next project was the gantry. But I can’t do anything now unfortunately.
Flman= Central Fl. Hurricane alley baby!
racecougar
Well-known member
Agreed with the suggestion to lift the building, tear out the slab/footers, and repour. Good luck getting the contractor to do that though.
Lifting that building is NOT difficult.
Lifting that building is NOT difficult.
I would not accept the situation.
A few necessary questions. First, did you have a general contractor or did you separately hire the building company, the concrete company, the concrete finisher, the electrician, etc. ?
If you had a general contractor he or she is responsible. If not the individual tradespeople are. The building installer may have some responsibility as well. Call each one potentially responsible, tell them the problem and then follow up the call with a certified letter. Give them a chance to consider the situation. They may come up with a settlement proposal .
If you can’t get a settlement from them you will need to hire a lawyer. But factor in this cost when considering any settlement offer that you may receive.
A few necessary questions. First, did you have a general contractor or did you separately hire the building company, the concrete company, the concrete finisher, the electrician, etc. ?
If you had a general contractor he or she is responsible. If not the individual tradespeople are. The building installer may have some responsibility as well. Call each one potentially responsible, tell them the problem and then follow up the call with a certified letter. Give them a chance to consider the situation. They may come up with a settlement proposal .
If you can’t get a settlement from them you will need to hire a lawyer. But factor in this cost when considering any settlement offer that you may receive.
I hired a concrete contractor to pour the pad. He is separate from the folks who built the building.
So does the liability fall on the contractor who poured the pad or the concrete company who delivered the concrete and mixed it at their plant?
Big Bad Dad
Well-known member
You have asked this, and been answered.
I'm sure it would be easier if you could go after a big company with deep pockets rather than chasing down a small time concrete finisher....But if the contractor added any water to the mix when placing it at the site, the concrete company will not be responsible. You can bet that the concrete company keeps copies of their batch tickets just for this reason.
Sounds like this may be between you and the guy you hired to do the slab and not the building contractor.
You really should talk to a Florida lawyer with experience in construction law.
The concrete company won’t give me the batch tickets. Ive asked several since the beginning of March and they dodge the question.
gsmith22
Well-known member
while bathc tickets are nice to have, they are ultimately not necessary to prove a problem. You already had the slab cored and tested which show very low breaks (I don't even know how you get a core that low - basically grey water coming out of the truck). Take the cores and have a Petrographic analysis done (probably via your engineer or whomever cored the slab). they slice a thin sliver of the concrete off the cores, look at it under a microscope, and they can tell you everything that makes up the concrete as if they had the batch ticket. it will confirm if there is too much water or whatever else maybe the issue. then, point the finger (via a lawyer) at both the contractor and mix plant. let them duke it out. eventually the truth comes out and i bet that batch plant will have the mix tickets which you will get a copy of through discovery. sorry to say, but getting a lawyer and suing is your only recousce here. your damages aren't just the slab, as you indicate you need to move the building out of the way (or demo and rebuild) so its going to include all of that. plan for this all to take a long time (years) to resolve and get your new slab and building. so if that isn't something you want to do, close eyes, move on with life and chalk it up to an "experience"
People act like getting a lawyer is going to be cheap and you'll easily squeeze 10k out of an alcoholic/crackhead before they bounce to another town.
Here in Missouri there's a huge problem with contractors doing half-arsed work (neighbor had 30k concrete job cracked/spalling due to freeze) who stopped answering calls to fix it after 4 months, and when enough people sued that contractor they changed their business name and bounced, just to repeat all of this in another town/county. I'm not advocating rolling over, but 2k+ in lawyer fees to never got a dime out of a dirtbag doesn't make sense.
Hell, the same thing happened to me but just with a roof. Rather than throw money at a lawyer and attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip for years while living with a leaky roof didn't make sense to me so I moved on and got it fixed properly.
I really hope the OP gets this fixed but we've all seen how this story ends unfortunately.
EDIT: I hope I ddin't come accross as rude, definitely not my intent. Just something to consider...
Here in Missouri there's a huge problem with contractors doing half-arsed work (neighbor had 30k concrete job cracked/spalling due to freeze) who stopped answering calls to fix it after 4 months, and when enough people sued that contractor they changed their business name and bounced, just to repeat all of this in another town/county. I'm not advocating rolling over, but 2k+ in lawyer fees to never got a dime out of a dirtbag doesn't make sense.
Hell, the same thing happened to me but just with a roof. Rather than throw money at a lawyer and attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip for years while living with a leaky roof didn't make sense to me so I moved on and got it fixed properly.
I really hope the OP gets this fixed but we've all seen how this story ends unfortunately.
EDIT: I hope I ddin't come accross as rude, definitely not my intent. Just something to consider...
Probably some on both. And some perhaps on the builder. And perhaps some on you. And there may be others involved. Construction disputes resemble circular firing squads with frequently everyone taking a few bullets.
gizardlizard
Well-known member
I always ***** about n
gizardlizard
Well-known member
I always ***** about never having any free time because I do all my own work. After reading this, I’ll never ***** again
Unfortunatly this happens to more people than you think....poor concrete mix....or poor installers........Usually good contractors use the same concrete suppliers so they know what they are getting......If you can't get the contractor to remove and repour, I would not lift the building as you will probably put kinks in the steel siding and roofing. I would go for the 2.5 inch slab on top of the existing concrete but make sure you cover the existing concrete base with a good concrete adhisive. This will make the new concrete stick to the existing pad. To anchor a car lift to the concrete I would use a 6 inch long lag so that it goes through both concrtete pads. Good Luck....
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
Depends if the mix was bad, or concrete contractor screwed the mix up. Start with the mix supplier. Call them and tell them the issue. Those are really low breaks. Ready mix companies put a chemical in the drums so concrete wont set up, sometimes they don’t get washed out properly.
As gsmith22 said, petrographic analysis will tell you everything you need to know.
Zeke
Well-known member
There's your answer. It shouldn't cost much to have a lawyer write a letter. Shoot, there are online lawyers that will do that. 2 letters, one identifying the problem and asking for info. 2nd is the demand letter. If they don't respond, file the suit yourself and subpoena the parties involved for documents. At this point you will have to determine the damages and what you want.
If you get this far, they may come to the table just to make this go away. Remember, they have to hire a lawyer to defend themselves. If the docs are damning, they will cave. Of maybe make a decision to go to court. If you lose, you pay their expenses. You can always drop the suit. Still, I would consult a lawyer on procedure. The bill by the hour. If you do the leg work, they are billing you as a consultant. You can limit that too, if it gets out of line.
I'd likely be willing to spend up to a grand just to see how far you can move these folks into making this right. If I was getting nowhere, I'd throw in the towel.
I wonder if you couldn't cut the center out, leaving the footings. Pin the footings with rebar, and re pour the center. At least the main slab would be up to par.
To be noted: I don't do concrete, just throwing out an idea. Right or not.
To be noted: I don't do concrete, just throwing out an idea. Right or not.
Zeke
Well-known member
I said that.
Oops
BillK
Well-known member
I looked twice and unless I missed it I dont see where you picked up the phone and called the concrete contractor ??????? That should be the first hing on your mind. If you have not done that I dont know why you are on here "complaining". The contractor might just make it good ?
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nitroracer20
Well-known member
Id think the concrete supplier could flub batch tickets pretty easily, so i doubt they are any sort of financial recourse. But id bet their mix was fine.
Pumping 230’ is a pretty long run on a line pump. The pump guy wouldnt want his line to clog so im sure that was mixed loose on site. Do you have any photos of the actual pour going on? That would tell alot…
Pumping 230’ is a pretty long run on a line pump. The pump guy wouldnt want his line to clog so im sure that was mixed loose on site. Do you have any photos of the actual pour going on? That would tell alot…
its got to be 2 to 1 to have a multiper of one, so a 2 inch core needs to be 4 inches long, a 4 inch core 8 inches longUpdate from engineering company.
Apparently when the cores of concrete are not a specific length they have to do a calculation correction to get the exact psi strength. The numbers I posted in my original post on top are what the cores broke at. But with the calculation correction, that apparently is a standard when determining the strength of concrete, it shows the following.
These numbers below are going in the report
Cores 1 & 2 average 1460 psi.
Core 3 is 3460