Makers of dial calipers

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I use the word "maker" to mean a company that either/both develops and manufactures their own (wherever). In contrast to rebranding the dial face of generic products.

I've been looking, and would appreciate any input people have.

I'm not too interested in (and there have been many threads before about) the merits of different types of sliding calipers, whether any brand is worth more than the cheapest, or the merits of rebranding and marking up generic products.

Now there are only so many ways to put a caliper like this together, parts may be shared, and unknown brands may clone the visual designs. So it's not always straightforward what's the same thing in different clothes. I don't know whether all of the below are definitely doing their own calipers.

Mitutoyo


Starrett


Kunststoffwerk Buchs (also branded by Wiha)


Tesa
Brown & Sharpe seems to be the same thing nowadays. And Etalon.


Mahr


Moore & Wright - exactly like many on AliExpress

 

[Dave455]

Mitutoyo - yes, I believe they make their own.

For some reason, the metric ones are made in Japan, the Imperial ones in south America. The latter are not such good quality.

Starrett, yes they also make their own. But… the cheaper ones are made in China, and again are not so good. Not sure what the better ones are like at present. I’d be interested in finding out.

Tesa, yes, also make their own. They’re pretty good, but not the quality of their older ones. Brown and Sharpe are rebranded Tesa.

Moore and Wright made beautiful ones years ago. The calipers were British made with Swiss made dial mechanism’s. Sadly what’s left of the company is a poor imitation of it’s former self and it’s management seem to think it’s acceptable to put their name on generic shite.

I don’t think any of the current dial calipers are easily repairable. I used to be on good terms with the guys at a British dial gauge manufacturer, and they used to be amenable to repairing dial calipers for me at little cost.

Sadly, spares got harder to obtain and quality dropped generally, so I think repairs are difficult now.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Moore and Wright made beautiful ones years ago. The calipers were British made with Swiss made dial mechanism’s. Sadly what’s left of the company is a poor imitation of it’s former self and it’s management seem to think it’s acceptable to put their name on generic shite.

I actually bought the one above, but will be returning it.

Spoiler: I digress

It does feel ok, and comes with an individual inspection check card. The plastic storage case is pretty poor.

Firstly the dial face is grey rather than white - it's not just the photography.

Secondly, I expected they'd either be outsourcing manufacture, or rebranding some mid-high end Taiwan/Japan place. The day after ordering, I was getting adverts for what appears to be the same caliper with an orange bezel from Temu shipped for $14. With white dial faces.

 

[Dave455]

I actually bought the one above, but will be returning it.

Spoiler: I digress

It does feel ok, and comes with an individual inspection check card. The plastic storage case is pretty poor.

Firstly the dial face is grey rather than white - it's not just the photography.

Secondly, I expected they'd either be outsourcing manufacture, or rebranding some mid-high end Taiwan/Japan place. The day after ordering, I was getting adverts for what appears to be the same caliper with an orange bezel from Temu shipped for $14. With white dial faces.

I don’t blame you.

If you get a chance to buy an older one in good condition, do it.

Ensure that the dial needle is vertical at zero, the mechanism is smooth, and there’s no backlash. If the needle is not vertical it’s most likely been dropped. If there’s backlash it’s either been dropped or is worn. If the mechanism feels “gritty“ then that’s probably what’s inside!

I’ve owned this one for probably 30 years and it was used when I got it. Unforgivably, a guy I was working with dropped it some years back and, as usual, the needle isn’t vertical at zero any more.

Despite that it’s still more accurate than most, and smoother to use than the Tesa that replaced it.

I don’t lend any inspection equipment now.

 

[KwikFab]

Where does Etalon fall?

Develop and manufacture their own?

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Tesa
Brown & Sharpe seems to be the same thing nowadays. And Etalon.

Where does Etalon fall?

I'd seen them mentioned but now acquired by Tesa, although the name seems to still be used on some products.

 

[Mfaz28]

Starrett, 120 made in America version. Yes there’s a difference

 

[Dave455]

I actually bought the one above, but will be returning it.

Spoiler: I digress

It does feel ok, and comes with an individual inspection check card. The plastic storage case is pretty poor.

Firstly the dial face is grey rather than white - it's not just the photography.

Secondly, I expected they'd either be outsourcing manufacture, or rebranding some mid-high end Taiwan/Japan place. The day after ordering, I was getting adverts for what appears to be the same caliper with an orange bezel from Temu shipped for $14. With white dial faces.

I know that dial calipers are convenient, but it’s worth thinking about whether they are always the best tool.

For mobile use they are just too delicate in my experience, and no case ever seems to be good enough. If you are only measuring diameters, the best option is to use a conventional micrometer if you can. With a little practice they can be read very quickly.

Moore and Wright used to offer these “spectacle” cases for pocket use, as did Starrett. I used to carry this 0-1” in my service case, and still do occasionally.


If you don’t like reading conventional mic’s, consider the other
options. Moore and Wright offered these easily read mic’s in the past. The mechanical scale is geared, so they are very accurate, but still rugged. More so than a dial caliper.


Moore and Wright also produced mechanical digital micrometers. One of the jewels in the crown as far as I’m concerned. Quick to read, accurate, and far more reliable than any electronic instrument. Starrett also produced similar instruments.


Also consider these Tesa electronic micrometers. Although electronic, they are considerably more rugged than an electronic caliper, but are easily read, and of course can read in Imperial or metric. The prices have rocketed in recent years. but I still consider them worth the cost.


If you really do want / need a caliper, then the traditional vernier, although not as fast to read as a dial, is far more rugged and reliable. I also used to carry this one in my service case, but have replaced it with a lesser quality Tesa since Benson’s have long gone, and their instruments are not replaceable.

 

[Steve_P]

I have two Mitutoyo dial calipers- Metric (Japan), Inch (Brazil). I see absolutely no difference in their quality, operation, or accuracy. I also have a few 10+ year old ones from HF and feel that, gasp!, they're just as good as the Mitutoyo- I get the same results on a gage block. I would love to see an unbiased test showing the ones made in Brazil being inferior, because somehow China can also make an excellent dial caliper. But you actually have to not be COO biased like so many here.

 

[M.Jay]

In addition to those already mentioned, there is Dasqua from Italy.
They seem to have their own factory in China, but i don't know if they build the calipers by them self, or just rebrand.


Dasqua 1331-2115-A

They also offer a digital one with a LCD display that mimics an analogue dial.

Dasqua Digital Dial Caliper

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

In addition to those already mentioned, there is Dasqua from Italy.
They seem to have their own factory in China, but i don't know if they build the calipers by them self, or just rebrand.

Pretty certain those are rebrands just like Moore & Wright.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I have two Mitutoyo dial calipers- Metric (Japan), Inch (Brazil). I see absolutely no difference in their quality, operation, or accuracy. I also have a few 10+ year old ones from HF and feel that, gasp!, they're just as good as the Mitutoyo- I get the same results on a gage block. I would love to see an unbiased test showing the ones made in Brazil being inferior, because somehow China can also make an excellent dial caliper. But you actually have to not be COO biased like so many here.

I totally believe they are. However for many of us, tool selection isn't purely a matter of objective performance.

 

[Dave455]

I have two Mitutoyo dial calipers- Metric (Japan), Inch (Brazil). I see absolutely no difference in their quality, operation, or accuracy. I also have a few 10+ year old ones from HF and feel that, gasp!, they're just as good as the Mitutoyo- I get the same results on a gage block. I would love to see an unbiased test showing the ones made in Brazil being inferior, because somehow China can also make an excellent dial caliper. But you actually have to not be COO biased like so many here.

The Brazil made Mitutoyo’s I’ve tried were noticeably less smooth than their Japanese counterparts.

That’s not country of origin bias, they were different.

That was some years ago, and they may have upped their game since then. The Brazilians can produce nice stuff - I could give numerous examples, but the calipers I tried were not comparable to the Japanese.

 

[M.Jay]

Pretty certain those are rebrands just like Moore & Wright.

Meh, I almost suspected it.

For some reason, the metric ones are made in Japan, the Imperial ones in south America.

Presumably to save costs and be closer to the distribution market. There just isn't much demand for anything with Imperial units outside of North America anymore.

Starrett, 120 made in America version. Yes there’s a difference

Ever since I got a Starrett 123 vernier in my hands, I would love to have a 120 dial caliper. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get one on this side of the pond at a reasonable price.

I also have a few 10+ year old ones from HF and feel that, gasp!, they're just as good as the Mitutoyo

Blasphemy!

 

[134k]

I know that dial calipers are convenient, but it’s worth thinking about whether they are always the best tool.

For mobile use they are just too delicate in my experience, and no case ever seems to be good enough. If you are only measuring diameters, the best option is to use a conventional micrometer if you can. With a little practice they can be read very quickly.

Moore and Wright used to offer these “spectacle” cases for pocket use, as did Starrett. I used to carry this 0-1” in my service case, and still do occasionally.


If you don’t like reading conventional mic’s, consider the other
options. Moore and Wright offered these easily read mic’s in the past. The mechanical scale is geared, so they are very accurate, but still rugged. More so than a dial caliper.


Moore and Wright also produced mechanical digital micrometers. One of the jewels in the crown as far as I’m concerned. Quick to read, accurate, and far more reliable than any electronic instrument. Starrett also produced similar instruments.


Also consider these Tesa electronic micrometers. Although electronic, they are considerably more rugged than an electronic caliper, but are easily read, and of course can read in Imperial or metric. The prices have rocketed in recent years. but I still consider them worth the cost.


If you really do want / need a caliper, then the traditional vernier, although not as fast to read as a dial, is far more rugged and reliable. I also used to carry this one in my service case, but have replaced it with a lesser quality Tesa since Benson’s have long gone, and their instruments are not replaceable.

Beautiful tools. Not to be an armchair internet pest, but please leave the anvils slightly open when storing them. Your calipers/mics will thank you.

 

[Dave455]

Beautiful tools. Not to be an armchair internet pest, but please leave the anvils slightly open when storing them. Your calipers/mics will thank you.

I do, but I wiped over them and set them to zero out of habit before photographing!

 

[134k]

I do, but I wiped over them and set them to zero out of habit before photographing!

Ah! My apologies

 

[whateg01]

I've never bothered to leave calipers open or closed or anything when not in use. I suppose I probably close them some of the time but they are just left wherever they were for the last measurement most of the time. They aren't an heirloom item. I also don't polish my wrenches

 

[RoninB4]

-For @Dave455 : Nice selection of Moore & Wright mics, those models seldom appeared over here in the US.

-On COO: I've not been a cheerleader for COO and have bashed products made in China often. I will also say that any product should be evaluated on the example you have in your hand. Decades ago I was purchasing a new 1-2" mic and wanted the Starrett but the Mitutoyo had a smoother feel. Tried a couple more of the Starrett but none were as smooth as the upstart from Japan that was considered a lesser product brand.

-One of my last purchases was for a larger base depth mic in 0-12" to compliment the shorter base Starrett that I'd had since the late 70's. I compared a new Starrett vs. a Brown and Sharpe, B&S was considered a better instrument for years. The counter help commented that I might not like the B&S as they were now being made in China. This was a bit disappointing but I tried it anyway and found it to be smoother and a better design (IMO) than the Starrett. I still prefer to use my Chinese made B&S over the Starrett when possible.

-While I still don't recommend products made in China you can't test, it's worthwhile to consider what you're able to test drive for yourself rather than snubbing a product solely on COO. American/German/Swiss/Japanese brands don't guarantee a better product in our global economy and haven't for many years.

-B&S is now owned by Hexagon so who knows where their products are made now.

 

[rancherbill]

I have never taken mine apart so I cannot comment on my innards or the innards of any other.

What accuracy do you need? I used dial calipers and could read 1/1000ths. I got a digital one and it has been verified that it reads repeatedly half a millimeter which is 500 microns. I checked at my professional machinist neighbour using his gauge blocks.

It has greater accuracy than I will ever use. I normally work at 4-5 hair accuracy.

 

[KnurledNut]

B&S is now owned by Hexagon so who knows where their products are made now.

Hexagon sold Tesa Switzerland, who made B&S, to Greatstar.
Yes folks, you heard that right.
The same chinese conglomerate that owns SK Tools, ShopVac, Duratech, Lista, Goldblatt, Arrow, Pony Jorgensen and others.


My Swiss-made black face Etalon is such a joy to use. I have a Japanese Mitutoyo and a Japanese Sears-Craftsman, but Etalon wins.

 

[RoninB4]

I got a digital one and it has been verified that it reads repeatedly half a millimeter which is 500 microns.

-Converting to inch .5mm-= 500µ = .01968"

I checked at my professional machinist neighbour using his gauge blocks.

-Just an FYI, using gauge blocks does not verify the accuracy/condition of a caliper or a micrometer either unless checking at single point of contact at multiple locations on the jaw. If jaws (or anvil/spindle) faces are out of parallel (dropped) the reading can be off. Play between the beam (caliper) and the sliding carriage (adjustable gib) can also throw the reading off as pressure is applied. Thought maybe someone would like to know this.

It has greater accuracy than I will ever use. I normally work at 4-5 hair accuracy.

-4-5 hairs = approximately .5mm = 500µ = .01968" so you're good to go.

 

[seber]

I have two Mitutoyos and two Brown and Sharpes along with some no name beaters. The Chinese calipers are plus or minus a few thousandths. The better ones are always within one thousandth. Of the two, I prefer the Brown and Sharpe. Smoother action and better feel.

 

[RoninB4]

Of the two, I prefer the Brown and Sharpe. Smoother action and better feel.

-I replaced my Mitutoyo with a B&S, I also liked how smooth it was and I considered the covered rack feature to be a better design. I still somehow got a small piece of crud in there and you could feel the "bump". Disassembled it and even with magnification couldn't eliminate the bump after several tries. I concluded that one of the teeth in the rack had become damaged, no replacement rack available so I gave it away. I only enjoyed it for a few months of use and I had to go back to Mitutoyo. Wish that hadn't happed, I liked it.

 

[Dave455]

-For @Dave455 : Nice selection of Moore & Wright mics, those models seldom appeared over here in the US.

-On COO: I've not been a cheerleader for COO and have bashed products made in China often. I will also say that any product should be evaluated on the example you have in your hand. Decades ago I was purchasing a new 1-2" mic and wanted the Starrett but the Mitutoyo had a smoother feel. Tried a couple more of the Starrett but none were as smooth as the upstart from Japan that was considered a lesser product brand.

-One of my last purchases was for a larger base depth mic in 0-12" to compliment the shorter base Starrett that I'd had since the late 70's. I compared a new Starrett vs. a Brown and Sharpe, B&S was considered a better instrument for years. The counter help commented that I might not like the B&S as they were now being made in China. This was a bit disappointing but I tried it anyway and found it to be smoother and a better design (IMO) than the Starrett. I still prefer to use my Chinese made B&S over the Starrett when possible.

-While I still don't recommend products made in China you can't test, it's worthwhile to consider what you're able to test drive for yourself rather than snubbing a product solely on COO. American/German/Swiss/Japanese brands don't guarantee a better product in our global economy and haven't for many years.

-B&S is now owned by Hexagon so who knows where their products are made now.

Thanks!

I have a considerable collection. I was fortunate to be able to acquire most of it at a time when many British companies had switched to metric. It’s doubtful if I could acquire it all at any cost now, let alone for the prices I paid.

At the time I needed Imperial instruments, but since then I have been able to duplicate much in metric as well, hence the collection is substantial. I say “collection” - these are all working tools.

The quality of the Moore and Wright was historically first class. It improved markedly after the war, when the company changed emphasis from making “quantity“ for the war effort, to “quality” for the jet age.

That quality was maintained into the 1970’s, but started to take a (slight) downturn in the 1980’s. That was largely due to the ownership. Shaws, who bought the firm after the war, pushed for quality, but James Neil, who purchased it in the 70’s were more cost conscious.

I have a lot of both Moore and Wright, and Starrett (Tesa too) and rate the products of both companies comparably. Sometimes the Moore and Wright has a slight edge, sometimes the Starrett. Starrett made a greater range of other tools, but Moore and Wright probably a greater range of specialist measuring equipment, although some products are unique to one or other.

I don’t think Moore and Wright was ever sold in quantity in the U.S.A. Starrett were sold widely in the U.K, but they had a factory here, whereas Moore and Wright had no such thing in the U.S.

Sadly, today, if you go into any British factory you will find one manufacturer dominating, and it’s Mitutoyo. You may find some, (usually older) Moore and Wright, some Starrett too. You will find products from Bowers, and Verdict (nice dial gauges) but Mitutoyo dominate.

If you buy Mitutoyo, you don’t need to worry about the “vintage”, it’s mostly all good. You don’t have to worry about calibration, or repair, because the tools are current production so spare parts are available. And you don’t have to worry about sourcing the stuff, since Mitutoyo have a huge presence in the U.K. and will most likely pursue you!

In a final ironic twist, some Mitutoyo tools are actually produced in the U.K. Frank Moore and Florence Wright would probably be totally confused…

 

[neophyte]

Thanks!

I have a considerable collection. I was fortunate to be able to acquire most of it at a time when many British companies had switched to metric. It’s doubtful if I could acquire it all at any cost now, let alone for the prices I paid.

At the time I needed Imperial instruments, but since then I have been able to duplicate much in metric as well, hence the collection is substantial. I say “collection” - these are all working tools.

The quality of the Moore and Wright was historically first class. It improved markedly after the war, when the company changed emphasis from making “quantity“ for the war effort, to “quality” for the jet age.

That quality was maintained into the 1970’s, but started to take a (slight) downturn in the 1980’s. That was largely due to the ownership. Shaws, who bought the firm after the war, pushed for quality, but James Neil, who purchased it in the 70’s were more cost conscious.

I have a lot of both Moore and Wright, and Starrett (Tesa too) and rate the products of both companies comparably. Sometimes the Moore and Wright has a slight edge, sometimes the Starrett. Starrett made a greater range of other tools, but Moore and Wright probably a greater range of specialist measuring equipment, although some products are unique to one or other.

I don’t think Moore and Wright was ever sold in quantity in the U.S.A. Starrett were sold widely in the U.K, but they had a factory here, whereas Moore and Wright had no such thing in the U.S.

Sadly, today, if you go into any British factory you will find one manufacturer dominating, and it’s Mitutoyo. You may find some, (usually older) Moore and Wright, some Starrett too. You will find products from Bowers, and Verdict (nice dial gauges) but Mitutoyo dominate.

If you buy Mitutoyo, you don’t need to worry about the “vintage”, it’s mostly all good. You don’t have to worry about calibration, or repair, because the tools are current production so spare parts are available. And you don’t have to worry about sourcing the stuff, since Mitutoyo have a huge presence in the U.K. and will most likely pursue you!

In a final ironic twist, some Mitutoyo tools are actually produced in the U.K. Frank Moore and Florence Wright would probably be totally confused…

Moore & Wright tools were sold under the Brown & Sharpe label in the USA at some point, judging by the “Made in England” Brown & Sharpe tools I’ve seen, maybe during Brown & Sharpe’s union issues.
The tools also have the same design including knobs etc.
the design and quality are definitely nice on the M&W tools.

 

[no704]

For every day beater shop use I’m pretty happy with my Fowler 6”. From McMaster. I did have one set that the I’d jaws were off about 0.020”. So have a ring gauge to check those also!

 

[RoninB4]

I have a considerable collection. I was fortunate to be able to acquire most of it at a time when many British companies had switched to metric.

-If the UK used Imperial units were any of your instruments pre 1959? I ask for a reason.

It’s doubtful if I could acquire it all at any cost now, let alone for the prices I paid.

-Nor could any of us at a certain age (vintage) for a lot of the things we've acquired. I no longer use many of the "unreplaceables".

At the time I needed Imperial instruments, but since then I have been able to duplicate much in metric as well, hence the collection is substantial.

-Must have been somewhat expensive buying two standards of instruments. I bought a few items for the anticipated national conversion to metric that never happened. I thought I was buying "the future", now I just use the calculator for conversion.

I say “collection” - these are all working tools.

-I have several tooling fixtures that are vintage and no longer available but I still enjoy using them when possible. Some items like my Lufkin vertical jig borer indicator have been retired. If it's fragile it's been archived, if not fragile then it's still available for selected duty.

The quality of the Moore and Wright was historically first class. It improved markedly after the war, when the company changed emphasis from making “quantity“ for the war effort, to “quality” for the jet age.

-The improvement must have been a delight to watch.

That quality was maintained into the 1970’s, but started to take a (slight) downturn in the 1980’s. That was largely due to the ownership. Shaws, who bought the firm after the war, pushed for quality, but James Neil, who purchased it in the 70’s were more cost conscious.

-That's when I first encountered M&W, Rabone Chesterman, and a few other makers. The M&W items were of good quality but seemed more prone to rust than the domestic (US) brands of Starrett and B&S. The steel used seemed to be softer as well and more prone to scratching/dents. I avoided purchasing more from them than the few items I had. I've still got a couple of the thread center gauges (arrow shaped) for single point threads (lathe) from Rabone Chesterman.

I have a lot of both Moore and Wright, and Starrett (Tesa too) and rate the products of both companies comparably.

-My preferences have always been about the instrument itself over the brand. While still young in the trade I made mental notes of things I liked and what I didn't. Purchases were always made along those preferences so I've got a mix of many different brands.

Sometimes the Moore and Wright has a slight edge, sometimes the Starrett. Starrett made a greater range of other tools, but Moore and Wright probably a greater range of specialist measuring equipment, although some products are unique to one or other.

-Would have liked to have seen those items that didn't make it over here.

I don’t think Moore and Wright was ever sold in quantity in the U.S.A.

-Not much for quantity in any of the tooling suppliers that I frequented in Chicago or the mail order catalogs either.

Starrett were sold widely in the U.K, but they had a factory here, whereas Moore and Wright had no such thing in the U.S.

-Which accounts for little representation in my tool chests.

Sadly, today, if you go into any British factory you will find one manufacturer dominating, and it’s Mitutoyo.

-That's a bit unexpected. I would have thought some of the German and Swiss makers would be present due to proximity.

You will find products from Bowers, and Verdict (nice dial gauges)

-Well there's two more names I'm unfamiliar with. I like seeing different makers of dial gauges.

In a final ironic twist, some Mitutoyo tools are actually produced in the U.K. Frank Moore and Florence Wright would probably be totally confused…

-The irony is almost amusing (but it's not).

 

[Dave455]

-If the UK used Imperial units were any of your instruments pre 1959? I ask for a reason.

-Nor could any of us at a certain age (vintage) for a lot of the things we've acquired. I no longer use many of the "unreplaceables".

-Must have been somewhat expensive buying two standards of instruments. I bought a few items for the anticipated national conversion to metric that never happened. I thought I was buying "the future", now I just use the calculator for conversion.

-I have several tooling fixtures that are vintage and no longer available but I still enjoy using them when possible. Some items like my Lufkin vertical jig borer indicator have been retired. If it's fragile it's been archived, if not fragile then it's still available for selected duty.

-The improvement must have been a delight to watch.

-That's when I first encountered M&W, Rabone Chesterman, and a few other makers. The M&W items were of good quality but seemed more prone to rust than the domestic (US) brands of Starrett and B&S. The steel used seemed to be softer as well and more prone to scratching/dents. I avoided purchasing more from them than the few items I had. I've still got a couple of the thread center gauges (arrow shaped) for single point threads (lathe) from Rabone Chesterman.

-My preferences have always been about the instrument itself over the brand. While still young in the trade I made mental notes of things I liked and what I didn't. Purchases were always made along those preferences so I've got a mix of many different brands.

-Would have liked to have seen those items that didn't make it over here.

-Not much for quantity in any of the tooling suppliers that I frequented in Chicago or the mail order catalogs either.

-Which accounts for little representation in my tool chests.

-That's a bit unexpected. I would have thought some of the German and Swiss makers would be present due to proximity.

-Well there's two more names I'm unfamiliar with. I like seeing different makers of dial gauges.

-The irony is almost amusing (but it's not).

The U.K. obviously did, and to an extent still does, use Imperial units, but the engineering world gradually switched to metric in the 1990’s. Back then it was an important distinction, but now it’s just a case of pushing a button on a DRO to switch between the units.

It’s still important for people like me, who have manual machines, but all mine are graduated in Imperial and that’s how my brain works. It’s bad enough switching from a British machine where one turn of a handle is 1/8” to a Swiss one where it’s .100 or .200.

Yes, I do have some instruments pre 1959, and some more that are “probably” pre 59, but only the tools for military contracts are usually dated, so it’s hard to tell for sure. Also, I prefer instruments with “pearl chrome” scales, the majority of which are later.

Buying two sets of instruments was surprisingly inexpensive. Many bigger firms don’t bother to re calibrate much, they just buy new with every major contract and factor that cost in. Consequently, there’s a constant stream of “surplus“ tools of you know where to look.

At the time of metrication there really was a glut, and that forced prices down, especially for the more specialised equipment. A model engineer or car mechanic can always use a 0 to 1” micrometer, but far less use a 5 to 6 inch, or a 24” vernier?

Being in the defence industry I was also able to pick up a lot of stuff from liquidation sales when I was buying machinery.

I’m too young to have seen the post war improvement in the Moore and Wright, but my Father and Grandfather saw it, and it’s evident from the tools.

I’ve never noticed a tendency to rust with M and W, in fact quite the opposite, however the gauges end of the business was a later acquisition for the firm (It may have been part of the Tyzack family originally) and I think they did their own thing to a degree.

Chestermans originally had a superb reputation for inspection equipment. They were pretty much top end wheras the older Moore and Wright was good, but not quite as good. When Chesterman merged with J. Rabone (a tape measure and rule manufacturer) to form Rabone Chesterman, the inspection equipment was never quite as good.

There is a fair amount of Swiss stuff here to be honest. I pick that up too, at the right price. Perhaps less of the German, but I think that’s because we had so much domestic made.

Verdict make really nice dial gauges, particularly their small ones, which feel like a Swiss Watch.


You will also find Baty, which are a mixture of British and Swiss made instruments, and also Mercer. Mercer were lovely but they closed down in the 1980’s. I have several Mercer dial gauges that I picked up for £5 each.

 

[rancherbill]

Buying two sets of instruments was surprisingly inexpensive. Many bigger firms don’t bother to re calibrate much, they just buy new with every major contract and factor that cost in. Consequently, there’s a constant stream of “surplus“ tools of you know where to look.

I should bookmark this comment when the topic arises as to why Government Contract stuff costs so much. It's OK to waste other people's money.

 

[whateg01]

I should bookmark this comment when the topic arises as to why Government Contract stuff costs so much. It's OK to waste other people's money.

I met with a customer this week and mentioned that I didn't have a particular device. He walked over to a cabinet and pulled 2 out that had been saved from the dumpster. Extras are purchased as part of the contract in case they are needed. When the project is complete the extra stuff just gets tossed. So I now have one and so does my coworker. The customers entire mock setup was out together that way.

 

[RoninB4]

It’s still important for people like me, who have manual machines, but all mine are graduated in Imperial and that’s how my brain works. It’s bad enough switching from a British machine where one turn of a handle is 1/8” to a Swiss one where it’s .100 or .200.

-So Brit machines are 1/8" per rotation? Interesting. What's common here is .200 (Bridgeport) or .100 on lathes, surface grinders, and several other types of machinery. I might have seen/used a machine or two with a dial stepped off to .125 but it was somewhat an oddball multiple that I had to focus on for travel exceeding 3 inches. The few machines from Chi-Wan I've used have sometimes been .0625 (half of 1/8) and wonder if the presence of British made machinery (Hong Kong) had anything to do with that. Never liked that feature in a dial. I've done a fair amount of work in metric but I either convert in my head or a calculator, my brain is wired in Imperial units too.

Yes, I do have some instruments pre 1959, and some more that are “probably” pre 59, but only the tools for military contracts are usually dated, so it’s hard to tell for sure.

-I asked because of the US defining/settling on the size of 1 inch in 1959. It was a miniscule amount of difference but wondered if that had affected the standards (rods) used for setting micrometers (certifications) or for inspection purposes with military contracts you've mentioned.

Also, I prefer instruments with “pearl chrome” scales, the majority of which are later.

-Had to look that one up....to no avail. If pearl chrome is the same as "satin chrome" here it's a surface finish to reduce the reflected glare of lights off the instrument. Decades ago it was not widely available with some US makers and none of the M&W tooling I bought, this was yet another reason I became particular with instrument selection. I decidedly prefer the satin chrome, especially on machinist scales (rulers) and was an almost exclusive feature on Starrett brand in the late 70's.

Buying two sets of instruments was surprisingly inexpensive. Many bigger firms don’t bother to re calibrate much, they just buy new with every major contract and factor that cost in.

-That's interesting. Tooling costs are also factored into contracts here but not for measuring instruments used in manufacturing for the contracted item(s) unless what they have won't pass certification.

Consequently, there’s a constant stream of “surplus“ tools of you know where to look.

-That's rather convenient for those with limited budgets.

At the time of metrication there really was a glut, and that forced prices down, especially for the more specialised equipment.

-Must have been some great purchases for those that observed the awarding of contracts.

A model engineer or car mechanic can always use a 0 to 1” micrometer, but far less use a 5 to 6 inch, or a 24” vernier?

-A 24" vernier was one of my early career purchases (used) and I was delighted to get it. I still use it on things now and then after 44 years just because it's there and I get better numbers than stretching a tape measure.

Being in the defence industry I was also able to pick up a lot of stuff from liquidation sales when I was buying machinery.

-I can only imagine what the liquidation sales from defense firms offered and those sales must have been eagerly anticipated.

I’m too young to have seen the post war improvement in the Moore and Wright, but my Father and Grandfather saw it, and it’s evident from the tools.

-Third generation huh? Here in the US my friend (moldmaker) and I advised his son to seek another career that wasn't machine shop related. We both had a large collection of tools, books, and knowledge we could have started him with but the machining trade changed drastically around the year 2000. My career spanned what I call the Golden Age of machining but I don't advise the youth to pursue it.

I’ve never noticed a tendency to rust with M and W, in fact quite the opposite, however the gauges end of the business was a later acquisition for the firm (It may have been part of the Tyzack family originally) and I think they did their own thing to a degree.

-Hard to say but it could have been my storage of those items. None of my other instruments exhibited this but perhaps I had excessive acidity in my skin due to the food I ate or careless handling. It even could be that where I purchased them from had something to do with it. I've seen other new items with the beginnings of rust from not being properly cleaned at the factory and shipped that way.

Chestermans originally had a superb reputation for inspection equipment. They were pretty much top end wheras the older Moore and Wright was good, but not quite as good. When Chesterman merged with J. Rabone (a tape measure and rule manufacturer) to form Rabone Chesterman, the inspection equipment was never quite as good.

-The threading gauge (arrow shaped) is all I've ever seen from them. I've been in inspection departments in other countries but not in the UK. I probably missed seeing some rather nice equipment.

There is a fair amount of Swiss stuff here to be honest. I pick that up too, at the right price. Perhaps less of the German, but I think that’s because we had so much domestic made.

-Somewhat confirms that I missed out on seeing some nice equipment.

Verdict make really nice dial gauges, particularly their small ones, which feel like a Swiss Watch.

-That's a nice looking model and a nice indicator like that should feel like a Swiss watch. Thanks for the photo.

You will also find Baty, which are a mixture of British and Swiss made instruments, and also Mercer. Mercer were lovely but they closed down in the 1980’s. I have several Mercer dial gauges that I picked up for £5 each.

-More new names. I'm familiar with several of the German and Swiss brands in catalogs and some of the shops I've worked in but haven't seen any of the British makes in shops or catalogs. How unfortunate.

 

[RoninB4]

So I now have one and so does my coworker.

-Two devices? We're waiting

 

[whateg01]

-Two devices? We're waiting

Polyphasers

 

[Dave455]

-So Brit machines are 1/8" per rotation? Interesting. What's common here is .200 (Bridgeport) or .100 on lathes, surface grinders, and several other types of machinery. I might have seen/used a machine or two with a dial stepped off to .125 but it was somewhat an oddball multiple that I had to focus on for travel exceeding 3 inches. The few machines from Chi-Wan I've used have sometimes been .0625 (half of 1/8) and wonder if the presence of British made machinery (Hong Kong) had anything to do with that. Never liked that feature in a dial. I've done a fair amount of work in metric but I either convert in my head or a calculator, my brain is wired in Imperial units too.

-I asked because of the US defining/settling on the size of 1 inch in 1959. It was a miniscule amount of difference but wondered if that had affected the standards (rods) used for setting micrometers (certifications) or for inspection purposes with military contracts you've mentioned.

-Had to look that one up....to no avail. If pearl chrome is the same as "satin chrome" here it's a surface finish to reduce the reflected glare of lights off the instrument. Decades ago it was not widely available with some US makers and none of the M&W tooling I bought, this was yet another reason I became particular with instrument selection. I decidedly prefer the satin chrome, especially on machinist scales (rulers) and was an almost exclusive feature on Starrett brand in the late 70's.

-That's interesting. Tooling costs are also factored into contracts here but not for measuring instruments used in manufacturing for the contracted item(s) unless what they have won't pass certification.

-That's rather convenient for those with limited budgets.

-Must have been some great purchases for those that observed the awarding of contracts.

-A 24" vernier was one of my early career purchases (used) and I was delighted to get it. I still use it on things now and then after 44 years just because it's there and I get better numbers than stretching a tape measure.

-I can only imagine what the liquidation sales from defense firms offered and those sales must have been eagerly anticipated.

-Third generation huh? Here in the US my friend (moldmaker) and I advised his son to seek another career that wasn't machine shop related. We both had a large collection of tools, books, and knowledge we could have started him with but the machining trade changed drastically around the year 2000. My career spanned what I call the Golden Age of machining but I don't advise the youth to pursue it.

-Hard to say but it could have been my storage of those items. None of my other instruments exhibited this but perhaps I had excessive acidity in my skin due to the food I ate or careless handling. It even could be that where I purchased them from had something to do with it. I've seen other new items with the beginnings of rust from not being properly cleaned at the factory and shipped that way.

-The threading gauge (arrow shaped) is all I've ever seen from them. I've been in inspection departments in other countries but not in the UK. I probably missed seeing some rather nice equipment.

-Somewhat confirms that I missed out on seeing some nice equipment.

-That's a nice looking model and a nice indicator like that should feel like a Swiss watch. Thanks for the photo.

-More new names. I'm familiar with several of the German and Swiss brands in catalogs and some of the shops I've worked in but haven't seen any of the British makes in shops or catalogs. How unfortunate.

As with most things, the travel per handle rotation varies. The majority of machines I have are 1/8“ per rotation, but I have two Centec Milling machines that are only . 100” per rotation (small handles) and a Swiss Jig Borer that is .200”, so have to get used to dealing with everything!

An awful lot of British machinery went to China anyway, even without Hong Kong. That still continues. One local machine dealer always has a shipping container waiting to be filled, and the Chinese will pay a certain amount (by weight) for any British machine tools. It’s much more than scrap value, and this affects the base price of any used machine.

With regard to the definition of the inch, although the U.S. and the U.K. originally started with the same definitions, they got refined differently over the years. Consequently, they ended up as very slightly different.

The U.K. definition was much closer (by an order of magnitude) to the figure that was finally agreed upon (25.4mm - 1km being 1/10,000 of the distance from the equator to either pole) so when the change to the “Industrial Inch” was made it wasn’t a huge deal. The U.K. also made the change in the 1930’s, when the difference was far smaller than could have been measured by any piece of workshop equipment then.

Perhaps we should start a new thread for inspection equipment to avoid too much “thread drift”!

With regard to dial indicators (sort of related) a Mercer is shown below. Mercer were clock makers originally and their dial gauges were very nice. Smooth action, quite rugged, and repairable if needed.

 

[AEAdam]

I should bookmark this comment when the topic arises as to why Government Contract stuff costs so much. It's OK to waste other people's money.

Doesn’t work like that. Commercial jobs maybe. Or if your govt customer is Saudi Arabia maybe. But not USG

 

[whateg01]

Doesn’t work like that. Commercial jobs maybe. Or if your govt customer is Saudi Arabia maybe. But not USG

In my customer's case, is mostly government contracts. Extra stuff that will be thrown away later is justified because not having it can delay a project and time is more important than money. From the outside looking in, it appears to be wasteful

 

[dnschmidt]

Why not just by a Mitutoyo digital and be done with it.

 

[AEAdam]

I bought a set of inch mitutoyo dials at a flea market for $10. I would have paid more, but not more than $50. So many excellent examples on eBay.

I have Mitutoyo digitals and Starrett digitals. The Starretts are considerably nicer. They are US made with Swiss electronics. And I really like Mitutoyo stuff and have a lot of it.

I think we all need to think about US made Starrett before everything goes to China. Maybe you can find good condition models on eBay. I wouldn’t rule out new Starretts. They might even go up in value when production moves.

 

[AEAdam]

As with most things, the travel per handle rotation varies. The majority of machines I have are 1/8“ per rotation, but I have two Centec Milling machines that are only . 100” per rotation (small handles) and a Swiss Jig Borer that is .200”, so have to get used to dealing with everything!

An awful lot of British machinery went to China anyway, even without Hong Kong. That still continues. One local machine dealer always has a shipping container waiting to be filled, and the Chinese will pay a certain amount (by weight) for any British machine tools. It’s much more than scrap value, and this affects the base price of any used machine.

With regard to the definition of the inch, although the U.S. and the U.K. originally started with the same definitions, they got refined differently over the years. Consequently, they ended up as very slightly different.

The U.K. definition was much closer (by an order of magnitude) to the figure that was finally agreed upon (25.4mm - 1km being 1/10,000 of the distance from the equator to either pole) so when the change to the “Industrial Inch” was made it wasn’t a huge deal. The U.K. also made the change in the 1930’s, when the difference was far smaller than could have been measured by any piece of workshop equipment then.

Perhaps we should start a new thread for inspection equipment to avoid too much “thread drift”!

With regard to dial indicators (sort of related) a Mercer is shown below. Mercer were clock makers originally and their dial gauges were very nice. Smooth action, quite rugged, and repairable if needed.

I bought this one in a church bazaar in Yeovil, which you may know was an aerospace hub, Westlands etc


I just thought it would be fun to have.