Makers of dial calipers

[M.Jay]

An awful lot of British machinery went to China anyway, even without Hong Kong. That still continues.

What are they doing with them? I thought the Chinese were advanced enough by now to manufacture good machines themselves.

The U.K. definition was much closer (by an order of magnitude) to the figure that was finally agreed upon (25.4mm - 1km being 1/10,000 of the distance from the equator to either pole) so when the change to the “Industrial Inch” was made it wasn’t a huge deal. The U.K. also made the change in the 1930’s, when the difference was far smaller than could have been measured by any piece of workshop equipment then.

My metric brain can't process this fractional mess. But I sometimes think about learning it, because inch based equipment can be had dirt cheap ove, here, since nobody bothers to use this stuff anymore.

I think we all need to think about US made Starrett before everything goes to China.

Already happened years ago for the people outside of North America. If you're buying anything Starrett in Europe, it comes with a 'Made in China' Label on it. There was a time when they had a factory in the UK, but I imagine that's long gone.

 

[neophyte]

What are they doing with them? I thought the Chinese were advanced enough by now to manufacture good machines themselves.


My metric brain can't process this fractional mess. But I sometimes think about learning it, because inch based equipment can be had dirt cheap ove, here, since nobody bothers to use this stuff anymore.


Already happened years ago for the people outside of North America. If you're buying anything Starrett in Europe, it comes with a 'Made in China' Label on it. There was a time when they had a factory in the UK, but I imagine that's long gone.

Starrett still has a location in Scotland, and when ProjectFarm tested calipers, that was the manufacturing location listed on the packaging.

 

[RoninB4]

I have Mitutoyo digitals and Starrett digitals. The Starretts are considerably nicer. They are US made with Swiss electronics. And I really like Mitutoyo stuff and have a lot of it.

-That's quite a statement to make. Would you care to qualify/quantify your opinion for those of us that don't have the digitals?

 

[M.Jay]

Starrett still has a location in Scotland, and when ProjectFarm tested calipers, that was the manufacturing location listed on the packaging.

They may still have a location there, but manufacturing ceased back in 2020. There was an official announcement back then:



The digital calipers were always made in China as far as I am aware. The ProjectFarm guy probably mistook the office address on the packaging for the place of manufacture.

 

[AEAdam]

-That's quite a statement to make. Would you care to qualify/quantify your opinion for those of us that don't have the digitals?

I’ll try to update this post with pictures later.

here are some things to know:
Starrett was late to the electronic tool market. I felt Mitutoyo was the master in that field. They have a wide range of electronic instruments from CMMs (I think) to DROs to indicators and calipers.

Starrett sorta jumped into the market with Starrett branded but Chinese made calipers that had near Starrett price tags but were pretty awful (model 721). Deservedly, they got terrible reviews. But Starrett, like many US companies I know, looked to improve their offerings. They went thru several design/manufacturing changes.

Where they are now is they have Athol Mass made frames with Swiss TESA branded head units. 2 models to consider, 798 and 799. 798 are the more expensive coolant proof models and are magnificent. They use the larger CR2032 battery. The Swiss reader head is nice, easy to read, but maybe Mitutoyo is a bit larger or clearer. At best they are a tie there for me.

My comparison:
Mitutoyo has a well made frame. They are smooth but nothing fancy. The Athol made frames on the 798 are jewel like. The feel is outstanding. The grinding is just finer and the working surfaces feel like gage blocks. The inner and outer jaws meet perfectly at the tips and no amount of monkeying changes anything. My belief is the accuracy of a set of calipers (of any sort) is linked to the consistency of the drag on the slide. The more uniform the surfaces are on that slide, the more accurate we will be with the tool. Micrometers are really not different, but ratchet or friction clutch thimbles can kinda make up for that.

I’ve read at PM the non coolant proof 799 models are very susceptible to coolant, but that’s PM and you never know the story there. Guys could be checking parts on lathes with flood coolant running, don’t know.

Now I love tools. I can imagine showing someone both pairs of calipers and them saying “there is no difference, they are both calipers”. So take my comparison with a grain of salt. My guess is, on paper there is no accuracy difference between the brands. But machinists I know love beautifully made items. We’re tuned into precision and surface finishes. Even the Starrett plastic case is nicer than the Mitutoyo. I don’t own any Nepros tools, but when I hear people talking about them here, that’s kinda how I feel about my Starrett calipers.

For reference @RoninB4, because you will 100% understand this, I started with a mini mill, 25 yrs ago or so. They are so small and with such limited Z access, people use grind vises on them. I somehow ended up with a Herman Schmidt V0-4, which I found absolutely inspiring. Those Schmidt vises are like jewelry. In short order, I upgraded the mill, but kept the vise! I’d love to have a grinder in my shop. Maybe someday

UPDATE
Starrett now shows COO for 798 and 799 as China. Sorry. You can now officially ignore this post. But this is the thing with Starrett. If you can find the Athol made stuff you probably should.

 

[F-22]

I have one old Mitutoyo that's also really nice to use, but can't find any photos right now.

However, here are my vernier calipers:

Yugoslavian (I think from the part that is now Croatia) MEBA. I do not know how old they are, but it is likely they are pre-80's. As with any old calipers, these predate widespread adoption and drop in quality - they are very well made for the Yugoslavian industry (manufacturing was on a relatively high level in Yugoslavia). These have seen better days and are quite worn down.




Japanese NSK Nippon Sokutei. I do not know if it is related to the NSK bearing manufacturer. These are also well worn.




Japanese Mitutoyo. Rescued these from a scrap metal bin. They have carbide jaws and someone broke off the ID part. The OD jaws are in good condition (hard to wear out these anyway).




And the ones I honestly rely on most. Wish they had the wheel.




I'll take a photo of my Mitutoyo dial caliper when I get home.

 

[M.Jay]

Where they are now is they have Athol Mass made frames with Swiss TESA branded head units.

Well...

 

[RoninB4]

here are some things to know:
Starrett was late to the electronic tool market. I felt Mitutoyo was the master in that field. They have a wide range of electronic instruments from CMMs (I think)

-Yes they did, Mit had CMM's earlier than the other major toolmaking brands. Cordax was a big brand here but not for hand-held measuring instruments. The Mit's were quite expensive but considered top drawer.

My comparison:
Mitutoyo has a well made frame. They are smooth but nothing fancy. The Athol made frames on the 798 are jewel like. The feel is outstanding. The grinding is just finer and the working surfaces feel like gage blocks. The inner and outer jaws meet perfectly at the tips and no amount of monkeying changes anything. My belief is the accuracy of a set of calipers (of any sort) is linked to the consistency of the drag on the slide.

-The regular dial calipers have a gib with adjustable thrust screws for "drag" tension. Surface finish on that gib can help.

The more uniform the surfaces are on that slide, the more accurate we will be with the tool. Micrometers are really not different, but ratchet or friction clutch thimbles can kinda make up for that.

-So does the surface finish of the ground threads, there's also an adjustable collar inside that affects engagement of the threads.

I’ve read at PM the non coolant proof 799 models are very susceptible to coolant, but that’s PM and you never know the story there. Guys could be checking parts on lathes with flood coolant running, don’t know.

-

For reference @RoninB4, because you will 100% understand this, I started with a mini mill, 25 yrs ago or so. They are so small and with such limited Z access, people use grind vises on them. I somehow ended up with a Herman Schmidt V0-4, which I found absolutely inspiring. Those Schmidt vises are like jewelry.

-Yes they are. I don't own one but a co-worker broke down and bought one. I saw it the day he got it and it made mine look shop-made by comparison. Anything by Hermann Schmidt is better than the rest, that's what R. J. Newbould used when he invented his indexer.

In short order, I upgraded the mill, but kept the vise! I’d love to have a grinder in my shop. Maybe someday

-There are other manual surface grinders but I've always preferred the Mitsui over the common Boyar-Schultz Challenger or base Harig models. Okamoto is less common but make a good larger wet grinder. I've got a Mitsui by choice.

UPDATE
Starrett now shows COO for 798 and 799 as China. Sorry. You can now officially ignore this post. But this is the thing with Starrett. If you can find the Athol made stuff you probably should.

-Kind of sad to see them go like that.

 

[Dave455]

What are they doing with them? I thought the Chinese were advanced enough by now to manufacture good machines themselves.

One might think so, but while they excel at mass producing quite advanced electronics, at low prices, they still struggle in some areas.

Most of the machines they get will essentially be of high quality, but very tired, and in need of refurbishment. One reason they are being disposed of is that the refurbishment cost (at British labour rates, in an expensive heated workshop) exceeds the machines value.

The Chinese can probably chuck man hours at the thing, and end up with a very nice refurbished machine for little cost. And once in a while they probably get some real treasure, disposed of by an ignorant accountant.

Some production machines, e.g. Alfred Herbert capstan lathes, can beat many CNC machines for production rate, and can be set up with a hex key rather than needing an employee to program.

There is a company in Germany refurbishing Herbert capstan lathes. They strip them right back to bare metal, regrind every surface, even fill every cosmetic blemish, and repaint them. The cost is considerable, but they are essentially “as new” machines.

My metric brain can't process this fractional mess. But I sometimes think about learning it, because inch based equipment can be had dirt cheap ove, here, since nobody bothers to use this stuff anymore.

Haha! It’s probably best to stick with what you know.

But for what it’s worth, when you are machining you are generally working in decimals, not fractions. In this regard, inches actually work quite well as a unit, as “one thou” (.001“) is about the smallest amount you can remove on a manual machine, so you are always working in easy whole numbers.

If I am machining something to, say .300”, then that’s 300 “thou”. If it measures 360 thou then that’s 60 to remove. Easy numbers.

Conversely, if I am working in wood I tend to find it easier in mm, but for the same reason. 1mm is about as accurate as my woodwork gets, and I can work in whole numbers.

 

[AEAdam]

Well...

Yeah that’s a shame. I noted it above. Starrett was a family owned company until a few years ago. One problem they had was the tools they made literally lasted lifetimes. I’m not sure if metal working in general is a shrinking field in the US, but you can find Starrett tools second hand pretty readily and very inexpensively. It could also be that the various hand tools Starrett made so beautifully are becoming obsolete due to the prevalence of CNC metal working tools and digital inspection equipment. Seems to me all modern (CNC) machinists need are digital calipers.

The last Starrett owner (Doug Starrett) sometimes contributed to threads about Starrett on PM. His posts were aways very informative. One example IIRC; While COO is super important in the US, it's not globally. Nor is "made in USA" a selling point in Europe and elsewhere. Here, MiUSA means top quality. Elsewhere it means top prices, sometimes with little or no improvement to quality. (just look at our cars).

All said, despite the change in ownership Starrett still exists and at least some tools are still being made in Athol Mass where Starrett’s been operating for nearly 150yrs (founded 1880).

 

[F-22]

As promised, my dial caliper:




It has seen some use but it is still very smooth and accurate.

But for what it’s worth, when you are machining you are generally working in decimals, not fractions. In this regard, inches actually work quite well as a unit, as “one thou” (.001“) is about the smallest amount you can remove on a manual machine, so you are always working in easy whole numbers.

If I am machining something to, say .300”, then that’s 300 “thou”. If it measures 360 thou then that’s 60 to remove. Easy numbers.

It's similar in metric, you actually usually talk in either tenths or hundreds. A hundredth of a milimeter is about half a thou. You generally won't talk about microns in a machining workshop except maybe around a grinder. It's also easy to spot someone green when they talk about 50 micron tolerances.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I was wondering why we see a few calipers without a thumb wheel - the common type, not the perpendicular fine adjust.

Just in the name of 5-10mm shorter overall length? That Tesa omits it only on the 150mm model would support that.

 

[rancherbill]

Doesn’t work like that. Commercial jobs maybe. Or if your govt customer is Saudi Arabia maybe. But not USG

hahaha, where were you when they revealed the cost of a hammer or the toilet seat or this thread where the guys said on big contracts they just buy new. In my miss spent years I sold stuff to the government and I am a master at spec writing for the buyers. Only the stuff I specced for the customers after many lunches would ever go to purchasing.

https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/case-study-a-simple-tool/


https://www.grassley.senate.gov/new...ort uncovered the,has changed since the 1980s.

 

[AEAdam]

hahaha, where were you when they revealed the cost of a hammer or the toilet seat or this thread where the guys said on big contracts they just buy new. In my miss spent years I sold stuff to the government and I am a master at spec writing for the buyers. Only the stuff I specced for the customers after many lunches would ever go to purchasing.

https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/case-study-a-simple-tool/


https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-10000-toilet-seat-cover-doesnt-pass-smell-test-dod-flushing-taxpayer#:~:text=After a report uncovered the,has changed since the 1980s.

Yeah this is off topic and BS. You can’t go to HomeDepot, buy a toilet seat and put that in an airplane. Even if it fit, and it wouldn’t, that’s not possible. Aircraft toilet seats, like aircraft everything, have to meet a bunch of strict requirements and testing. Even something as simple as a toilet seat becomes pretty complicated/expensive.

And to the point made earlier- I’ve never in 35yrs in the biz seen a time when we bought, for example, a Snap on EPIQ toolbox full of tools using govt money and disposed of it cheap after the contract was complete. I’ve heard those stories but never once seen it. If it was purchased with govt money, it’s govt property and goes back to the govt. If the contractor bought tools using profit or overhead (likely) then the tools would belong to the contractor. If they went out of business they might liquidate their equipment. Fortunately I’ve never seen that.

More likely, (and I have seen this) an obsolete toolbox goes to another part of company. In the case of our hand tools, they all carry Snap on warrantees. So that box will continue to be maintained, worn tools replaced, indefinitely.

My guess is, precision tools that can’t pass calibration, get sent back to their manufacturers for rebuild or replacement. That’s how torque wrenches work. Not sure about calipers.

 

[Dave455]

With regard to the question of inspection equipment being disposed of after contracts, I can certainly vouch for that happening in the U.K.

It doesn’t happen much in government dept’s, because they generally do their calibration in house, but it’s common practice in industry, and it’s all due to the numbers involved. I give prices in GBP but you get the idea.

Take something like a 1 inch / 25mm micrometer.

New cost would be in the order of £60.

But that includes U.K. VAT. ( purchase tax) so the cost to a VAT registered business is only £50.

A big company will get a substantial discount on the list price - maybe 30% - so that mic is only costing them probably £35.

They buy one, use it for a contract, and then it’s out of calibration, but their QA system will require a calibration cert.

They could send it for calibration, but that will probably cost them £20.

Or they could just sell all the mics used on the contract to a dealer. The dealer will be re selling against the new price so will probably see £30, and will probably give £10.

So the company can re calibrate the existing tool for £20, or completely replace with new for effectively £25, and the cost is met by the customer anyway.

This is why there’s a constant stream of “surplus“ inspection equipment.

Of course, the figures are different with larger equipment, which is why companies tend to hang on to that.

You also have to factor in durability and abuse. A one inch micrometer is pretty durable, but an electronic caliper less so, especially in regular use around a machine shop. Mitutoyo calipers are pretty much industry standard in the U.k. and one (relatively small) firm I deal with has about 10 of them, brand new, stacked up.

With regard to hand tools, it all comes down to money again. U.K. rules allow a business to “write off” tools against tax. Over a period of I think 3 years for hand tools. So, a guy running a small business might buy a set of Snap On tools, and after 3 years he can dispose of them for whatever price he wants. Which is probably going to be about £5, and the customer is probably himself personally!

 

[rancherbill]

....... I’ve never in 35yrs in the biz seen a time when we bought, for example, a Snap on EPIQ toolbox full of tools using govt money and disposed of it cheap after the contract was complete. I’ve heard those stories but never once seen it.....

Oh I get it now. Anything that YOU haven't seen is just a myth. All those stories you heard were concocted in some BS artist's mind.

 

[Steve_P]

What are they doing with them? I thought the Chinese were advanced enough by now to manufacture good machines themselves.

Here is the reality for those here that aren't stuck in 1990 like Dave.

China's government went all in on robotics 10+ years ago as they realized that they will not be able to compete with India, Bangladesh, Vietnam.... in the future on low-cost goods like textiles and consumer goods; they knew they had to switch to high-tech higher-cost items, like all industrialized nations do over time.

China's factories are more automated than Japan and Germany. Gasp! They have the highest robot density per worker.

They are not mass-producing precision measuring equipment on some worn out manual equipment from 20th century anywhere, including England. I bought a set of Chinese generic 0-6" X.0001" graduation micrometers from Enco in 1995. I brought them to work and verified them on dozens of verified gage blocks; they were dead on. The six piece set cost either $70 or $100 at that time. I brought the 2-3" micrometer with a crankshaft I needed have ground and told the machinist to use it since that's what I was building the engine with. When I picked it up, he asked me about the micrometer, where I got it, how much it cost. When I told him he was blown away, "China? It's every bit as nice as my Mitutoyo micrometers, operates smoothly, same reading.... at a fraction of the cost".

China manufacturers 75% of the world's Liion batteries. They are a leader in solar cell production, and are installing the equivalent of a standard nuclear plant's power generation in solar panels every day. BYD leads Tesla in EV production and will only pull away with Tesla's beyond stale model line and toxic CEO....

China's automotive factories are the most automated in the world, surpassing the US, etc. They are not trying to modernize factories from the 1950s and retrofit them with robotics like we are. Like Germany and Japan after WWII, China's **** is all new, starting fresh. The US is still operating steel mills from the Civil War and WWI, and we wonder why we compete.

China installed more industrial robots in 2023 than the rest of the world- combined. Look it up.

China is currently developing an extremely detailed nationwide engineering standard for humanoid robots that all domestic manufacturers have to meet; the US has nothing like this. They are 5+ years ahead of Tesla's Optimus, and Tesla cannot realistically manufacture their Optimus at scale without China. China had multiple humanoid robots that ran a half marathon 6? months ago. Yes, most didn't finish, but when Optimus does that, without being remotely operated, let us know.

China has their own domestic passenger jet manufacturing company. Yes, they use USA engines, but that will not be forever.

But yeah, they can't manufacture a set of dial calipers.

Again, it's not 1980 anymore. Made in Japan was a joke in 1970. Made in Taiwan was a joke in 1980. Now Japan is worshiped by most here, and Taiwan respected by most that are under 50 and not stuck back in time. China was a joke in 1990, but somehow so many old white guys (and I am not young) still refuse to accept that they've greatly advanced; no, that's somehow reserved for Japan. As so many dismiss China, they will surpass us. And listen, I was born in the US, American parents, but I also don't have my head up my *** and shout "USA, USA, USA...." when I pull it out.

Sure, China still makes ****, but if you pay, you almost always get good stuff. I have a $300+ Breville toaster oven from China- you couldn't make a nicer product anywhere.

 

[Dave455]

Here is the reality for those here that aren't stuck in 1990 like Dave.

China's government went all in on robotics 10+ years ago as they realized that they will not be able to compete with India, Bangladesh, Vietnam.... in the future on low-cost goods like textiles and consumer goods; they knew they had to switch to high-tech higher-cost items, like all industrialized nations do over time.

China's factories are more automated than Japan and Germany. Gasp! They have the highest robot density per worker.

They are not mass-producing precision measuring equipment on some worn out manual equipment from 20th century anywhere, including England. I bought a set of Chinese generic 0-6" X.0001" graduation micrometers from Enco in 1995. I brought them to work and verified them on dozens of verified gage blocks; they were dead on. The six piece set cost either $70 or $100 at that time. I brought the 2-3" micrometer with a crankshaft I needed have ground and told the machinist to use it since that's what I was building the engine with. When I picked it up, he asked me about the micrometer, where I got it, how much it cost. When I told him he was blown away, "China? It's every bit as nice as my Mitutoyo micrometers, operates smoothly, same reading.... at a fraction of the cost".

China manufacturers 75% of the world's Liion batteries. They are a leader in solar cell production, and are installing the equivalent of a standard nuclear plant's power generation in solar panels every day. BYD leads Tesla in EV production and will only pull away with Tesla's beyond stale model line and toxic CEO....

China's automotive factories are the most automated in the world, surpassing the US, etc. They are not trying to modernize factories from the 1950s and retrofit them with robotics like we are. Like Germany and Japan after WWII, China's **** is all new, starting fresh. The US is still operating steel mills from the Civil War and WWI, and we wonder why we compete.

China installed more industrial robots in 2023 than the rest of the world- combined. Look it up.

China is currently developing an extremely detailed nationwide engineering standard for humanoid robots that all domestic manufacturers have to meet; the US has nothing like this. They are 5+ years ahead of Tesla's Optimus, and Tesla cannot realistically manufacture their Optimus at scale without China. China had multiple humanoid robots that ran a half marathon 6? months ago. Yes, most didn't finish, but when Optimus does that, without being remotely operated, let us know.

China has their own domestic passenger jet manufacturing company. Yes, they use USA engines, but that will not be forever.

But yeah, they can't manufacture a set of dial calipers.

Again, it's not 1980 anymore. Made in Japan was a joke in 1970. Made in Taiwan was a joke in 1980. Now Japan is worshiped by most here, and Taiwan respected by most that are under 50 and not stuck back in time. China was a joke in 1990, but somehow so many old white guys (and I am not young) still refuse to accept that they've greatly advanced; no, that's somehow reserved for Japan. As so many dismiss China, they will surpass us. And listen, I was born in the US, American parents, but I also don't have my head up my *** and shout "USA, USA, USA...." when I pull it out.

Sure, China still makes ****, but if you pay, you almost always get good stuff. I have a $300+ Breville toaster oven from China- you couldn't make a nicer product anywhere.

No offence taken!

My original statement, that M.Jay asked about, was that “a lot of British machinery WENT (past tense) to China”, which it did. I also commented that it still does. Both of these are demonstrable facts.

Whatever your opinion of Chinese manufacturing, I can only report the facts, which is that the Chinese were (and are) more than happy to pay good money for used machines.

I never suggested they were producing measuring equipment with them. In fact I pointed out that most of the machines being purchased are “quite tired”.

The reasons for the purchases can be speculated upon, but the facts are the facts!

As to the quality of Chinese manufacturing, you will find no previous comment from me in this thread concerning Chinese manufacturing potential.

I can confirm that they can (but don’t always) make some quite nice pocket knives, certainly nicer ground than anything coming out of the U.S. at present, but these are fairly simple things. Micrometers are fairly simple too, and inexpensive ones generally work quite well provided they are accurately zero’d.

The question of Chinese passenger jet manufacturing is really beyond this forum, but I‘ve worked relatively closely with the Chinese aviation industry over the last few years and I can assure you that the C919 has not had an easy childhood!

All of which is probably too much thread drift for a post about dial calipers, so I’ll leave any further discussion to another thread.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

This thread has gone a lot of places, all interesting, that I didn't foresee. For avoidance of doubt or wrong assumptions, I'd like to say why I started it.

I've had a digital caliper for many years and am happy with it. It was clear from the price I paid that it was a generic cheap tool with a known brand slapped on it.

I wanted an additional caliper to keep at another location, as it's not the sort of thing I'd have in my mobile box, and when you need one, often nothing else will really do. When I want multiples of a tool, the easy way is just get another of the model you have, or at least the same type. Often however, I'll opt for something a little different because variety sometimes comes in handy in unexpected ways, or purely out of interest. In this case, I have an appreciation for clockwork and mechanisms, so I fancied a dial caliper.

My main problem with the dial caliper I bought was that the dial background was grey, for some unexplainable reason. My other bugbear was the heavy price premium on it just for the brand (as I soon realised) - they'd done nothing of value for my money. I apply that to all brands, but when it's a once-great brand from my own country it's worse.

I ask who makes them so I know who wants money for their efforts, vs. who thinks they're entitled to money simply for owning a brand. The former group seems to be only Mitutoyo, Starrett, Kunststoffwerk Buchs / Wiha, Tesa, and some little-known companies from Taiwan and China. All the others deliver fine tools (because they're the same ones) but you very likely can get the same thing for much less money under a less premium brand.

I'd have no problem with dial calipers from Insize or Metrology / Jingstone Precision Group, and have no doubt that they're capable of and do make first class products. In the case of a similar product being designed and/or made in my part of the world and sold at a suitable price however, I might prefer to go for that.

 

[Dave455]

This thread has gone a lot of places, all interesting, that I didn't foresee. For avoidance of doubt or wrong assumptions, I'd like to say why I started it.

I've had a digital caliper for many years and am happy with it. It was clear from the price I paid that it was a generic cheap tool with a known brand slapped on it.

I wanted an additional caliper to keep at another location, as it's not the sort of thing I'd have in my mobile box, and when you need one, often nothing else will really do. When I want multiples of a tool, the easy way is just get another of the model you have, or at least the same type. Often however, I'll opt for something a little different because variety sometimes comes in handy in unexpected ways, or purely out of interest. In this case, I have an appreciation for clockwork and mechanisms, so I fancied a dial caliper.

My main problem with the dial caliper I bought was that the dial background was grey, for some unexplainable reason. My other bugbear was the heavy price premium on it just for the brand (as I soon realised) - they'd done nothing of value for my money. I apply that to all brands, but when it's a once-great brand from my own country it's worse.

I ask who makes them so I know who wants money for their efforts, vs. who thinks they're entitled to money simply for owning a brand. The former group seems to be only Mitutoyo, Starrett, Kunststoffwerk Buchs / Wiha, Tesa, and some little-known companies from Taiwan and China. All the others deliver fine tools (because they're the same ones) but you very likely can get the same thing for much less money under a less premium brand.

You make really good points.

I think most if us reading these forums like mechanical things. That’s why we’re here.

And there are perfectly good reasons for wanting mechanical measuring instruments. Most of mine are decades old, and they suit an “occasional” user (which I now am) far better than electronic instruments, which (however good they are) don’t generally last well.

I also totally agree with your opinion of this rebranding. It’s basically laziness on the part of management, coupled with a degree of ignorance - they don’t understand the tools they sell, or their customers.

They will tell you that they can get “their” tools manufactured much cheaper elsewhere, but my response would be to ask “then why don’t you“ rather than taking a generic product and rebranding it?

I think you have summed up the manufacturers worth considering.

You are quite right to consider legibility though. Dial calipers are generally quite good in this regard, but using a grey dial won’t be an enhancement. White dials are good, and many manufacturers denote their metric instruments by a yellow dial, which are excellent!

 

[whateg01]

... All the others deliver fine tools (because they're the same ones) but you very likely can get the same thing for much less money under a less premium brand.

I have seen reviews of starrett tap handles where they were found to have swarf inside, so certainly brand names don't carry the same weight they once did. But could it be that rebranded calipers follow the same trend that 4x6 bandsaws do? Could they all be made in the same factory but the ones that are able to meet tighter specs go to the higher priced brands?

 

[AEAdam]

This thread has gone a lot of places, all interesting, that I didn't foresee. For avoidance of doubt or wrong assumptions, I'd like to say why I started it.

I've had a digital caliper for many years and am happy with it. It was clear from the price I paid that it was a generic cheap tool with a known brand slapped on it.

I wanted an additional caliper to keep at another location, as it's not the sort of thing I'd have in my mobile box, and when you need one, often nothing else will really do. When I want multiples of a tool, the easy way is just get another of the model you have, or at least the same type. Often however, I'll opt for something a little different because variety sometimes comes in handy in unexpected ways, or purely out of interest. In this case, I have an appreciation for clockwork and mechanisms, so I fancied a dial caliper.

My main problem with the dial caliper I bought was that the dial background was grey, for some unexplainable reason. My other bugbear was the heavy price premium on it just for the brand (as I soon realised) - they'd done nothing of value for my money. I apply that to all brands, but when it's a once-great brand from my own country it's worse.

I ask who makes them so I know who wants money for their efforts, vs. who thinks they're entitled to money simply for owning a brand. The former group seems to be only Mitutoyo, Starrett, Kunststoffwerk Buchs / Wiha, Tesa, and some little-known companies from Taiwan and China. All the others deliver fine tools (because they're the same ones) but you very likely can get the same thing for much less money under a less premium brand.

I'd have no problem with dial calipers from Insize or Metrology / Jingstone Precision Group, and have no doubt that they're capable of and do make first class products. In the case of a similar product being designed and/or made in my part of the world and sold at a suitable price however, I might prefer to go for that.

If I followed you, I think igaging, insize, and Fowler all meet that description. They sell what we believe are mid range tools, but are really made by someone else and sold cheaper under other brands.

Edit: We equate mid priced with mid quality, but with calipers it seems there is no mid quality.