MBrennan24
New member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2023
- Messages
- 2
Between Malco and Gedore who makes better locking pliers?
Malco Eagle Grip vs Gedore Locking Pliers
- Thread starter MBrennan24
- Start date
finn
Well-known member
It’s not Malco, since they have abandoned the locking plier market and ceased production.
I haven't used a locking pliers from either brand but I'll say 2 things:
The only Gedore product I've bought is a set of circlip/snap-ring pliers. One broke the very first time I used it. Tip just snapped. Eventually got hold of a rep over the phone and he told me they don't usually warranty circlip pliers because they break all the time... Right. He took my address, said he'd order one for me as a favour. That was over 6 months ago and I've not seen a replacement or had any more calls/emails answered since. Could be unlucky but I won't be giving Gedore any more of my money.
I've had a "Grip-On" brand locking pliers for years. Have beat it with a hammer while it's locked on a nut. Works as good as new (ok some of the teeth are a little worse for wear but it's had a hard life). Would buy another. Also really like the release mechanism, it's better than the Irwin Vice Grip style.
The only Gedore product I've bought is a set of circlip/snap-ring pliers. One broke the very first time I used it. Tip just snapped. Eventually got hold of a rep over the phone and he told me they don't usually warranty circlip pliers because they break all the time... Right. He took my address, said he'd order one for me as a favour. That was over 6 months ago and I've not seen a replacement or had any more calls/emails answered since. Could be unlucky but I won't be giving Gedore any more of my money.
I've had a "Grip-On" brand locking pliers for years. Have beat it with a hammer while it's locked on a nut. Works as good as new (ok some of the teeth are a little worse for wear but it's had a hard life). Would buy another. Also really like the release mechanism, it's better than the Irwin Vice Grip style.
OP
MBrennan24
New member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2023
- Messages
- 2
There's still a bunch available
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ I do not own and have never used any "Gedore". (Full disclosure: there may have been a "Gedore" wrench that passed my way at one time, but it would have been an item I would have immediately relinquished possession of by means of placing at the curb with a "free" sign on it.)
That said: Petersen Manufacturing Co. invented and perfected the locking plier. MALCO made some improvements on the original Petersen design, and produced arguably the best locking pliers in the galaxy.
They're on sale right now at Harry Epstein's for about $30 bucks a pair. You're not going to find better. Get 'em while they last. Full stop.
That said: Petersen Manufacturing Co. invented and perfected the locking plier. MALCO made some improvements on the original Petersen design, and produced arguably the best locking pliers in the galaxy.
They're on sale right now at Harry Epstein's for about $30 bucks a pair. You're not going to find better. Get 'em while they last. Full stop.
finn
Well-known member
The he question was “who makes the best plier?”
Malco no longer makes them, so that answers the question, doesn’t it?
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
Gedore has the better release. I can’t stand the Malco/Visegrip release trigger. I’m always pinching myself. My Gedore locking pliers have rust in spots which *****. I cannot comment on tooth hardness yet as I just haven’t used them as much as I would like. Same with my Malco ones. I’ve been beating the snot out of some NWS ones which I would not recommend.
You're not going to get any data driven answer unless Gedore was in the Project Farm test. If I wanted the best today, I'd just order some Malco before they're gone. Because they were so far ahead of everything else that was tested it's doubtful Gedore is better.
Lt CHEG
Well-known member
The Malco Eagle grips are the best locking pliers ever made, bar none. I’m trying to add some more from HJE every month for as long as they have them. I don’t even use locking pliers often, but these are so good that I want to make sure I have them in perpetuity if at all possible. Plus they’re darn pretty to look at.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Pay attention to how the release lever is configured as shown by the red arrow.
There are two different configurations commonly used.
There are two different configurations commonly used.
Last edited:
Kaffeetanne
Well-known member
Warranty on tools isn't really common among german manufacturers. The mindset over here is pretty different and more like "if you break it, you used it the wrong way, so it's your own fault".
It wasn't asked for, but I would throw in the Facom locking pliers. They have an innovative approach on those but it might not be for everyone, since they look and feel different from the classic ones everyone makes.
Fair enough if it's a tool that's been used over and over... but this was a brand new pliers, and the appropriate size for the snap ring I was working on. One pin just snapped off at the base.
Which Facom, I see two styles on google?
Generally, they're right.
Chrome Vanadium Cody
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2021
- Messages
- 663
The Facoms are a price point level above even peak Eagle Grip prices but that jaw capacity for the size is pretty killer. This is about the best price I've seen online https://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?cPath=35_68_113&products_id=8460
Kaffeetanne
Well-known member
Well, i have no clue how those things works over there, but if something new breaks here, I have to file a warranty claim with the dealer i bought it, not the manufacturer.
500Series, there are 5 variants of them: https://www.facom.com/produits/500A-Series-Description.html
55 bucks isn't that bad for an imported tool. Over here they go for 40 to 50 with tax.
Maybe keep an eye on Amazon france or Germany. Prices of these pliers are constantly going up and down.
HannibalLecter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2023
- Messages
- 402
Facoms are the best, but crazy expensive. Curious, can't you get Knipex vice grips in US? I can get them really cheap and they are made in Germany and of good quality. Many styles too.
Knipex is available for $25-50, as are the regular Proto versions that are configured similarly to well, everyone except FACOM. I think Proto’s are made in Spain now. , Both release in the correct direction. Eagle Grips sure are shiny though. I think I remember Eagle Grips going for over $70 before they closed. Anyone remember why Snap on was getting for them? The Facoms are in another class of functionality. Actual Irwin Vise Grips are much improved since Stanley bought them and can frequently be found for $12. I recently bought Vise Grips 4-inch curved jaws for under $6 each. They work in a lot of situations for cheap.
Last edited:
The 8-10" Eagle grips were typically selling in the $40s and $50s before Malco shut down. This is for the pliers, not the welding type clamps.
Knipex and Grip On didn't do very well in comparison to Eagle Grip in the Project Farm test. Maybe not even in comparison to the new import Vise Grips. Watch the Project Farm test if you're interested.
The Protos and Facom shown above are cool, but I'd argue that they aren't a direct competitor for the Malco, as they're more for clamping larger items.
That $70 number is closer to the Snap-On price. Eagle grips were $35-$45 dollars.
Hohn
Well-known member
I snagged one of the stock items recently and have MAJOR regrets not getting them sooner. What a revelation.
Kaffeetanne
Well-known member
After Malco announced the shutdown prices hiked, but only for a short time. Got mine a few months ago for something around 40 bucks.
Sad they will be gone forever once the remaining stock is sold. Guess theres just no market for quality gripping pliers.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Kaffeetanne said:
There is a market for them. The evidence of that is that Harry J. Epstein is selling them. They're selling them for about $32 bucks a pair so they can move the inventory out. They could sell them for $52, which is what I paid them for mine before they lowered the price, but it would take them much longer to move the inventory - that's money ******* that's just collecting dust.
Better to take a little fast than wait a long time for a lot - at least that's how it works in retail.
The issue is simply the fact that the end consumer - the user - hasn't adjusted yet to the overall increase in the prices of everything. So as long as their are price-competitive alternatives, this discussion will continue.
In the end, when all the Malcos are sold out, the discussion will become academic - it will be those who have owned and used the Malcos shaking their heads in disbelief as they listen to tales about some other imitator's product being "just as good".
In the US, the warranty is provided by the manufacturer, not the retailer. But, sometimes they're the same, as for truck brands and store brand tools. (No, the Home Depot doesn't make the stuff branded Husky, but they cause it to be made, which makes them the manufacturer.) Some retailers act as agents for manufacturers, and will do warranty replacement for stuff they didn't sell. (lowes for craftsman, for instance.)
of course, stuff that is broken on arrival, or breaks first use, generally gets returned to the retailer. the retailer takes it up with the manufacturer (often by simply not paying for it, which is why many things have "PLEASE CALL US BEFORE RETURNING" all over the manual. cheaper to ship you a missing part, then deal with the loss of a whole kit.)
Kaffeetanne
Well-known member
I wish it would be like you said. But the fact that there ist still stock left even though Malco stopped production nearly a year ago suggests the opposite. Also the reduced price indicates that the Eagle Grips were a niche product and beside a few enthusiasts like the guys around here at GJ, there isn't much demand.
So it's the opposite to how it usually works here in Germany where you have to claim warranty at the place you bought it and only if this doesn't work you reach out to the actual manufacturer of the product.
I don't think that price was the primary issue. Yes, they were too expensive to compete with the imports, but it was never intended to compete with the imports on price. IMO, the issue was that they couldn't keep the factory running 5 days a week producing just "vise grip" pliers and selling that same production in a week. It's not 1975 anymore and there's dozens of competitors- all selling for much less. And there's no way that they could ever compete with the imports on cost, which they knew from the start. Even if they sold them for $20, they still would have closed down, because the imports cost a fraction of that. But Snap On sells pliers that cost many times more than competitors and stays in business. This is because they must run plier A for a few days, then B.... and produce a variety of things with the same personnel in the same factory. I don't know this as a 100% fact, but since they run out of stock on many items and give an estimated time to be back in stock shows that they must do this.
If Malco could've run the Eagle grips for a day a week in a factory that also made 5 other things, then it could have stayed in production at their higher costs. But having a single plant running essentially a single product line like they still dominated the market like it was still 1975 doesn't work today.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Mbrennan24 the OP said:
There have been several discussion threads dealing with the "why" part of Malco's discontinuing production of this item.
There's a lengthy video that was made by Harry Epstein in which the owners discuss possible reasons "why".
All of that is academic at this point and has no bearing on the OP's original question, which was "who makes a better product?"
I've never used "Gedore" locking pliers so I cannot comment on their quality.
I've used Petersen "Vise-Grips" for over 50 years, and I've yet to "pinch" myself with a pair. I'm not even sure how you would do that.
Maybe I've been using them incorrectly?
We brought Petersen Manufacturing into the warehouse in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Memory is a bit fuzzy on that one because it wasn't my line - my BIL handled that one. Minimum orders for prepaid freight were a challenge, so we started outsourcing them from Coast Auto Supply out of Portland. I could buy them from Izzy, mark them up at the warehouse 20% to the stores, and then mark them up just over 50% at the store level, and still remain competitive in the market.
"Warranty" returns on them were minimal - probably less than 1% of total sales. Not at all like the plethora of cheezy import knock-offs we peddled: Wilmar, Hollywood Accessories, Medallion, Zomax - over half of which usually came back.
Again, Malco took the original Petersen design and made some improvements on it, resulting in arguably the best locking pliers in the galaxy.
Again, if you're looking for a better product, this is it. I grabbed a few more earlier today. I might order some more for Christmas presents.
YMMV
neophyte
Well-known member
According to I think Monte a number of years back in the Tools from the Old World thread, he mentioned that basically all the German locking pliers were actually made by two manufacturers.
Bollman-Selzer was one.
I forget the name of the other.
I think it was mentioned sometime later, that one or both manufacturers may not even produce all of the locking plier jaws for the pliers they make.
The various German tool brands then just bulk order branded locking pliers from the two manufacturers, maybe with slight proprietary tweaks like finish, or modified jaws.
Gedore produces, or has some tools produced in Austria, and Stubai has licking pliers in their catalog, so some Gedore pliers may not be from the two German manufacturers.
Bollman-Selzer was one.
I forget the name of the other.
I think it was mentioned sometime later, that one or both manufacturers may not even produce all of the locking plier jaws for the pliers they make.
The various German tool brands then just bulk order branded locking pliers from the two manufacturers, maybe with slight proprietary tweaks like finish, or modified jaws.
Gedore produces, or has some tools produced in Austria, and Stubai has licking pliers in their catalog, so some Gedore pliers may not be from the two German manufacturers.
Gedore locking pliers are made in Austria. They are definitely different from the Bollman locking pliers made in Germany.
Gedore make (some ?) locking pliers on their own (in Austria). It seems some are bought elsewhere. Gedore model 136 K-105 looks spanish for example (Grip-On 181). Model 137P looks like a "Wezag" model (coarse knurling, release lever, bright finish). Wezag stopped production of locking pliers a while ago though. (Maybe the photo on the Gedore site is old). AFAIK only Bollmann produces here anymore.
From the Wezag site:
www.wezag.de
I think this is another Wezag product:
Stahlwille 65632175 . I don´t think you´ll receive this design though......
but instead you´ll get this:
Stahlwille 65632175 ...Bollmann style....
From the Wezag site:
WEZAG – Company
WEZAG ist einer der führenden Hersteller von Crimp-, Schneid- und Spezialwerkzeugen für den professionellen und industriellen Bedarf! Quality made in Germany.
www.wezag.de
I think this is another Wezag product:
Stahlwille 65632175 . I don´t think you´ll receive this design though......
but instead you´ll get this:
Stahlwille 65632175 ...Bollmann style....
It's a 100 year old design. I'd argue brands like Facom made quite a bit more innovations on that old design. Malco just.. made them more shiny?
I have some 40 year old Gedore pliers that work fine. The release lever opens them in the way that makes way more sense than the "US-style" vise grips.
If Facom is too pricey, maybe you can find the Unior 434/3D for a reasonable cost. They seem to have copied the Facom. Still seem to be in the ~30€ range here (without EU tax).
In general, often the really cheap sub-20$ pliers make the most sense to use cause you inveitably end up damaging them (welding etc...). For example, I'm sure the Tekton ones are adequate for most needs and still disposable enough that you don't care about scratching them. Vise grips are the most useful tool for dirty work around angle grinders and welders..
neophyte
Well-known member
The original patent for the wide opening Facom locking pliers goes back to the mid 1950s.
The current version of the pliers uses a release trigger or button that was from a more recent Facom design, that Facom discontinued, the T5 model.
The T5 pliers had steel jaws, and a steel front frame, but the handle portion was cast aluminum.
There was a separate, slightly less expensive version of the T5 that had plastic or resin handles.
The advantage for the Malco Eaglegrips was the quality of materials and manufacturing.
Malco took a product that was well regarded, and produced it better, rather than changing the design.
This is what Lie-Nielsen and Karl Holtey have done for woodworking planes, and both are still in business.
Vaughan has tried at least a dozen times or more to make fancy higher end hammers, and practically every one of the fancier hammer designs has since been discontinued.
The Douglass/Woody/Dalluge design might have some reasonable explanation, like maybe not wanting to be dicks to Douglass after all the issues he had getting the hammers into production, and then back into production, again.
Attachments
four.cycle
Well-known member
F-22 said:
uh.... no....
the changes made are detailed here somewhere... there were .... 3 or 4 (?) improvements made to the Petersen design.
there's a thread on it here somewhere.
I went a bit down the rabbit-hole on locking pliers recently (I blame all of you). The differences on Malco vs. USA Peterson are subtle but significant. Aside from the chrome finishing (which feels great), the main differences I can pick out for the Malco are: a slight geometry/shape differences that improve hand feel, the solid collar at the screw, a bigger and more-knurled knob with a 1/4" hex tight tightening, beefier jaws, much-beefier rivets and a rivet to secure the body to the top jaw vs. a pinch. The metal of the top and bottom might be slightly thicker, but I didn't measure it.
All of those things add up to a pretty significant in-hand difference that's well-beyond anything else I own where I can do that comparison (e.g. my Icon ratchets feel awfully close to my SnapOn, to the degree that in-hand or in-use I'm not sure I could tell the difference with my eyes closed other than the ornamental handle details).
Interestingly, the spring on the old ones seems much stronger. The geometry of the pins is also different, they relocated them closer together - I wonder which one has more handle travel.
Amazon soured my eagle grip experience. They sent me old used Milwaukees instead, and I wasn't going to deal with overseas returns, so screw them.
The eagle grips definitely seem nicer. I want them cause I'm a bit of a tool nerd. However I do not think the differences are meaningful at all for most people. Yes, beefier jaws, but how many Petersen jaws or handles broke? Yes better cutters, but TBH I'd rather not have them at all if it made the tool any cheaper. When Knipex is half the cost, I'd say they're overpriced.
Amazon soured my eagle grip experience. They sent me old used Milwaukees instead, and I wasn't going to deal with overseas returns, so screw them.
The eagle grips definitely seem nicer. I want them cause I'm a bit of a tool nerd. However I do not think the differences are meaningful at all for most people. Yes, beefier jaws, but how many Petersen jaws or handles broke? Yes better cutters, but TBH I'd rather not have them at all if it made the tool any cheaper. When Knipex is half the cost, I'd say they're overpriced.
four.cycle
Well-known member
M635_guy said:
The larger screw at the back, with more aggressive knurling and the ability to use a hex key, was a significant improvement. There were a couple other changes (noted in the image below.)
They're down to $30 bucks a pair now, which should be incentive enough. But if you're in Europe and dealing with VAT stuff and shipping costs, it may not be a viable option.
Attachments
I agree that the Malco probably aren't needed by most people- who typically use locking pliers to clamp stuff for welding or drilling. But if you watch the Project Farm test, they blew the Knipex away in most categories, and totally dominated the testing as far as stopping things from rotating- the main purpose of a locking plier. Whether this is worth it to a purchaser is up to them, and how they intend to use them. I don't think anyone would buy the Malco to use them to clamp something to weld, because a $8 import will work just as well for that. But if you need to hold a rusty nut, and if it slips you'll make it round, so you have one chance, then Malco is the tool to have.