I know that there have been tons of threads going over various tool brands but I think my situation is unique enough to justify another. I am just starting school to be a diesel mechanic and of course that requires a lot of tools. While in the school I will get a straight up 50% off discount on Snap on, Mac, and Craftsman so I was thinking that to start out I would probably spend quite a bit on Snap on and Mac. My dad said he would help out financially since I am not going to an expensive university like my three older siblings (none of which used their degrees in the least). What my questions are is whether their is that much of a difference between Mac and Snap on and even whether they are worth it because even with the discount they are quite pricey. I know I will never get a discount like this again for new tools so I don't want to blow my chance. This is not regarding workstations (toolboxes) because I will definitely go used in that area. Thanks in advance and if their is anything wrong with this post know it is my first of many.
Mechanic Tools
- Thread starter J_Miller
- Start date
mrjaw14
Well-known member
buy lots of Snap-On. Ratchets, sockets, wrenches, flare nut wrenches, those kinds of things. I'd look at the tap and die sets and see if it's worth it to buy SO at 50% off, or buy the OEM version depending on the warranty. For pliers you might choose SO, but knipex and other brands are good too.
hangfirew8
Well-known member
These diesel school students also asked about Snap-On and their 50% discount.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168187
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115873
Sign into eBay and looked at Completed/Sold listings for Mac and SO tools. That should give you an idea about retained value. Retained value is important as it is part of your exit strategy from wrenching, whether it be through retirement or career change, in 40 years or 5.
Another way to choose is find out who the top employers in your area are, and find out which trucks visit there, and how often. The greatest brand in the world is no good to you if you have to beg the truck driver to come out every other month.
Pro tip: If you really want to destroy the retained value of your professional tools, throw away the packaging and engrave your initials on them.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168187
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115873
Sign into eBay and looked at Completed/Sold listings for Mac and SO tools. That should give you an idea about retained value. Retained value is important as it is part of your exit strategy from wrenching, whether it be through retirement or career change, in 40 years or 5.
Another way to choose is find out who the top employers in your area are, and find out which trucks visit there, and how often. The greatest brand in the world is no good to you if you have to beg the truck driver to come out every other month.
Pro tip: If you really want to destroy the retained value of your professional tools, throw away the packaging and engrave your initials on them.
Search "snap-on student discount".
There are some good threads, highlighting what tools are the best investments.
Couple of points to add:
(1) In addition to the "classics" you'll find there, also think about what kind of stuff is better bought new rather than used, as alot of good parts you can get off e-bay in NOS or mint condition later down the road.
(2) Budget before you shop. Set up an allowance of $2k or 5k or $10k or whatever. And then go trough and triage the most important/daily stuff vs the biggest investment/savings vs the most certain stuff you will need eventually.
- things like machine shop tools vs regular tools
- diagnostics
- torque controls
All that stuff eats up $$$ and the truck brands are good quality, but you want to shop around and figure out what you need and what your options are
(3) consider what you can sell if you quit for the highest % of what you paid. Stuff like snappy hardline has very liquid market, so you won't lose your shirt if something happens and you get a desk job or another line of work than needs different stuff. wheras maybe stuff like power tools you may be better off not getting from snap on as the warranty is short and the markups are high...and they may not fetch good value in a couple of years.
There are some good threads, highlighting what tools are the best investments.
Couple of points to add:
(1) In addition to the "classics" you'll find there, also think about what kind of stuff is better bought new rather than used, as alot of good parts you can get off e-bay in NOS or mint condition later down the road.
(2) Budget before you shop. Set up an allowance of $2k or 5k or $10k or whatever. And then go trough and triage the most important/daily stuff vs the biggest investment/savings vs the most certain stuff you will need eventually.
- things like machine shop tools vs regular tools
- diagnostics
- torque controls
All that stuff eats up $$$ and the truck brands are good quality, but you want to shop around and figure out what you need and what your options are
(3) consider what you can sell if you quit for the highest % of what you paid. Stuff like snappy hardline has very liquid market, so you won't lose your shirt if something happens and you get a desk job or another line of work than needs different stuff. wheras maybe stuff like power tools you may be better off not getting from snap on as the warranty is short and the markups are high...and they may not fetch good value in a couple of years.
signcrafter
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 12,321
It all depends. If you are fairly sure you want to do this in some shape or form for the long haul then spend away. Most snap on you can sell for 50% easy on ebay so you can't really lose any money. Especially if your dad is going to give you some cash to help out.
Also read a lot on the forum. There are lots of threads on topics like which snap on tools are "must haves" and which ones are rebranded and can be bought for cheaper somewhere else. Think of things like warranty. Snap on has one of the best warranties out there. So tools that are common to break are better to buy from snap on where you can easily warranty it.
Also read a lot on the forum. There are lots of threads on topics like which snap on tools are "must haves" and which ones are rebranded and can be bought for cheaper somewhere else. Think of things like warranty. Snap on has one of the best warranties out there. So tools that are common to break are better to buy from snap on where you can easily warranty it.
ibedayank
Well-known member
better to have a $500 import box and $10,000 worth of good tools then have a $10,000 box and $500 worth of good tools
toolman9w
Well-known member
Visit the shops in the area you want to work in(if you know). Find out their "tool guy". That will tell you which tool guy is the most solid and most reliable. And with everything there is good tool guys and bad tool guys.
I was a diesel tech for 18 years,I have lots of different brands.
abvw
Well-known member
A $500 box will last you a lifetime at home, but I promise you that it will not last a year in a diesel shop. You will be working almost exclusively with 1/2" and 3/4" tools and they will overload cheap drawers quickly. Remember, everything in a diesel shop is bigger.
Cheap boxes also have very poor drawer configurations. You WILL need drawers at least 21" deep and 30"+ wide to store all those big tools like pry bars and ratchets. My first box, 40" wide two bank top and bottom, looks impressive until I start loading tools in it. I had to use 4 of my 8 (18"x18") drawers to store my wrenches because each drawer can only realistically fit one set of wrenches, whereas my Snap-on's 30"x21" drawer fits everything with room to spare! Organization is key, you don't want to spend too much time going through 5-6 drawers to gather what you need for a job.
Guys who tell you a cheap box will do obviously do not work professionally. That is the same as telling a F1 driver to race on the track with a Honda Civic. Once you work professionally, you need professional level tools and equipment, no other way around it and this is true for all professions.
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toolman9w
Well-known member
Ditto that.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
This.
I would buy an older Snap On box if I couldn't buy new. And buy it wide, because you'll have long *** tools like pry bars and torque wrenches and big *** wrenches.
bcradio
Well-known member
All 3 of you TOTALLY missed his point about the $500 box.
benzoni
Well-known member
I agree. Also get your most expensive purchases out of the way up front.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
The main thing to consider is how 'tool sensitive' you are. Some guys can pick up a Snap-on wrench and a Craftsman wrench and not notice any differences at all.
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thatonedude
Well-known member
I see a lot of guys automatically say snap on. Ill tell you this my mac stuff feels no different then my snap on stuff. The difference is the cost. What ill say is play with both brands, put screw drivers, wrenches ectra in your hands a feel which one feels best comfortably to use all day long.
XxToolAholicxX
Well-known member
What ever you buy don't buy Matco as I had a thread here that even their hard line tools are China now. For ratchets I would go with Snap-On and sockets I would go with S-K tools. For toolbox I would go with Harbor Freight as their boxes are excellent buy for the price. Pliers I would go with Knepix. Screwdrivers I would go with Snap-On and might get couple S-K ratchets as they are very durable. MACs hardline is just as good as the mentioned brands. MACs hard handle screwdrivers are awesome.
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I am a Toolaholic,Sometimes I regret it,Especially when the Toolman wont give me no credit
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I am a Toolaholic,Sometimes I regret it,Especially when the Toolman wont give me no credit
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abvw
Well-known member
How you like them Knuckle Saver wrenches? Are your hands hurting from yanking on those yet?
Forget screwdrivers, an impact driver will prove to be much more useful on trucks (I work on cars and rarely need them). Buy a few good bits from Snap-on, they're cheap and they are warrantied for life as long as you don't lose them.
A light and powerful impact wrench is your friend. Long pry bars, short sledge hammers and air hammer is also a must have to make life easier.
Learn to use leverage and tension to your advantage. Hitting things at the right place with appropriate leverage and counter tension will pop anything loose in a few hits. Don't waste your energy wailing at stubborn parts, you'll never win.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
Don't believe everything you read on here.
Some people will see one tool made in Taiwan and it becomes "All ABC brand tools are MADE IN CHINA now!"
justme-
Well-known member
I can only offer this - almost all Snap on tools are US made and unique to Snap on - they rebrand some but there's no cheap 3rd world steel with Snap On's name on it - Mac is Stanley and not everything they put there name on is US made or the same standards as one would think. I'm not saying buy Snappy, you just have to do some research on Mac stuff if you care what you buy.
also, my BIL and I were talking about some of this a couple days ago - he offered to get me stuff at his student discount when he was in school as long as he didn't need the given tool/set himself. (1 per student discount from most of them, especially Snappy). Well, the short of it is the Snappy student discount is the lowest price you'll find a new Snap On tool - from what he was telling me it's below what they sell to the trucks for. Any truck guys want to correct me or verify?
As to the tool box conundrum - a cheap low end box isn't going to hold up to daily pro use for long - no doubt, but I think the point missed above is the same as my thinking - I'd rather drop the bulk of my money in the tools I'm going to need and use daily and house them in a cheap box (or boxes if the need be) over buying a high end box and blowing the bulk of your budget so you end up short on tools.
Plenty of slightly experienced high end boxes on the web (CL especially) for anywhere between really reasonable and "I need to make back most of the money I spent on this box I don't really need" and there always will be.
also, my BIL and I were talking about some of this a couple days ago - he offered to get me stuff at his student discount when he was in school as long as he didn't need the given tool/set himself. (1 per student discount from most of them, especially Snappy). Well, the short of it is the Snappy student discount is the lowest price you'll find a new Snap On tool - from what he was telling me it's below what they sell to the trucks for. Any truck guys want to correct me or verify?
As to the tool box conundrum - a cheap low end box isn't going to hold up to daily pro use for long - no doubt, but I think the point missed above is the same as my thinking - I'd rather drop the bulk of my money in the tools I'm going to need and use daily and house them in a cheap box (or boxes if the need be) over buying a high end box and blowing the bulk of your budget so you end up short on tools.
Plenty of slightly experienced high end boxes on the web (CL especially) for anywhere between really reasonable and "I need to make back most of the money I spent on this box I don't really need" and there always will be.
justme-
Well-known member
Read the tool truck equivalents thread - a large portion of Matco tools are listed there with KD/Gearwrench equivalents which means China.
You may want to check out the tool truck equivalents thread. There is a pretty extensive list of equivalent tools to the tool truck brands. The non truck brands are almost always cheaper. I realize this doesn't directly help as far as your discount goes, but maybe it is worth considering.
You can build a really solid set of tools with the truck tools that have equivalents (likely cheaper than the truck price with discount), and then use your student discount to pick up truck brand tools that aren't on that list. Something to consider
You can build a really solid set of tools with the truck tools that have equivalents (likely cheaper than the truck price with discount), and then use your student discount to pick up truck brand tools that aren't on that list. Something to consider
ibedayank
Well-known member
How you like them Knuckle Saver wrenches? Are your hands hurting from yanking on those yet?
Forget screwdrivers, an impact driver will prove to be much more useful on trucks (I work on cars and rarely need them). Buy a few good bits from Snap-on, they're cheap and they are warrantied for life as long as you don't lose them.
A light and powerful impact wrench is your friend. Long pry bars, short sledge hammers and air hammer is also a must have to make life easier.
Learn to use leverage and tension to your advantage. Hitting things at the right place with appropriate leverage and counter tension will pop anything loose in a few hits. Don't waste your energy wailing at stubborn parts, you'll never win.
so your going to use an impact driver to install and adjust headlights to do interior trim... lets see just how well that works out
Givl Reggin
Banned
You'll need access to warranty service over time and in your profession that means Snap-On.
Start with....
Dual 80 3/8 ratchet
Flare wrenches -- Snap-Ons don't spread.
Flank drive plus wrenches, 7mm - 24mm & 3/8" - 3/4" -- SOEXRM wrenches are one of my favorites. Flank drive plus open end and a 15° offset and reversible ratcheting box end--hard to beat.
Flex (swivel) sockets -- Snap-on flex sockets will flex further and give you more angle to work with before binding. You almost have to have a Snap-on flex socket at 90 degrees before it will bind. Having a flex socket that doesn't flex far enough defeats the whole purpose of having a flex socket in the first place.
Screwdrivers and ratchet screwdrivers -- a set of pro-quality screwdrivers. It'll be one of the most commonly used tools in your lifetime, and a rounded fastener can ruin more than just your day.
Impact swivels can make a lot of jobs easier.
The best knurled extensions are made by MAC. Because Mac puts the knurling where you use it around the female square drive part of the extension.
Look to Knipex for pliers, etc.
Keep in mind that you'll never be able to buy Snap-On tools this cheap ever again... with that in mind I would get a toolbox from Snap-On. Then you'll have tool storage (with a warranty) that'll last a lifetime.
Then I would go though their catalog and buy everything I thought I would ever use... now I've seen some post that there are some tools you cannot buy as part of the student program and that there is an upper spending limit, I think someone said it was around $20,000 - aside from those limitations I would load up until they cut me off.
Start with....
Dual 80 3/8 ratchet
Flare wrenches -- Snap-Ons don't spread.
Flank drive plus wrenches, 7mm - 24mm & 3/8" - 3/4" -- SOEXRM wrenches are one of my favorites. Flank drive plus open end and a 15° offset and reversible ratcheting box end--hard to beat.
Flex (swivel) sockets -- Snap-on flex sockets will flex further and give you more angle to work with before binding. You almost have to have a Snap-on flex socket at 90 degrees before it will bind. Having a flex socket that doesn't flex far enough defeats the whole purpose of having a flex socket in the first place.
Screwdrivers and ratchet screwdrivers -- a set of pro-quality screwdrivers. It'll be one of the most commonly used tools in your lifetime, and a rounded fastener can ruin more than just your day.
Impact swivels can make a lot of jobs easier.
The best knurled extensions are made by MAC. Because Mac puts the knurling where you use it around the female square drive part of the extension.
Look to Knipex for pliers, etc.
Keep in mind that you'll never be able to buy Snap-On tools this cheap ever again... with that in mind I would get a toolbox from Snap-On. Then you'll have tool storage (with a warranty) that'll last a lifetime.
Then I would go though their catalog and buy everything I thought I would ever use... now I've seen some post that there are some tools you cannot buy as part of the student program and that there is an upper spending limit, I think someone said it was around $20,000 - aside from those limitations I would load up until they cut me off.
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abvw
Well-known member
You don't understand the frustration that comes with working with cheap schit.
He's not fixing stuff once or twice a week, he will be abusing these tools for 8-10 hours a day for 5 days a week. Breaking tools can also hurt yourself, not worth cheapening out for. I can stand on my 10mm wrench with confidence that it will not slip or break on me. The peace of mind is worth all the premium tool truck companies charge and that is why you don't see real mechanics go around preaching the virtue of cheap tools.
abvw
Well-known member
Trigger control, power tools are not on/off anymore, and whats stopping you from using the bits on a bit holder and ratchet if precision and control is required?
You'll end up using screwdrivers as pry bars and alignment tools.
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
While a lot of Matco tools are Gearwrench* plenty is still US sourced like from Armstrong.
*No Gearwrench does not automatically mean China, either
This.
While I have some HF or cheaper brands (Gearwrench, Sunex, etc) in my box, my hard line is mostly Snap On/Williams/Proto/Matco/Wright for a reason.
It makes a difference.
Safety is a big reason. I do not want to **** up my hand and wind up in the hospital, or hurt myself worse. Nor do I really enjoy scraped knuckles and pinched fingers.
Durability and reliability are other reasons to buy quality tools.
And as far as the box, one needs a solid, durable, large box, because one will load it up heavy with large tools. None of us are saying go out and drop 10k on a toolbox, but a couple k spent on a used KRL or similar will be a wise purchase.
ibedayank
Well-known member
Cover your basics first save the fancy **** for when you have a job and you can pay CASH... Remember if not paying CASH you have to pay interest. Used tools in good shape work just as well as new and cost much less. No need to get into a ******* match over toolboxes and tools. Impress them by how well and quickly you learn and get the job done. After all a big $$$ box full of $$ tools that you owe on only impresses the guy who comes and takes your money.
ibedayank
Well-known member
I have prybars to use as prybars...
ibedayank
Well-known member
just what exactly does the price of the box have to do with the tools you choose to put in it??? Starting off Debt free after getting out of school at starting pay rates is more of an advantage then making $15 an hour starting then owing snap-0n another $1000+ a month in payments
ibedayank
Well-known member
http://www.investinganswers.com/calculators/loan/loan-interest-calculator-how-much-interest-will-i-pay-my-lender-3191
use this to figure out how much interest you will be paying
use this to figure out how much interest you will be paying
abvw
Well-known member
Debt debt debt oh nooooooo
Debts and continual expenses are one of the major factors you wake up everyday and bust your balls for. I'd rather sink $1000 a month into tools than to waste it on other things that doesn't make me any money, such as gambling, cars, and girlfriend.
Every old timers I've talked to encouraged me to start buying my tools young, because its impossible to do that once you're married and have a family to feed.
The only time when you should be debt free is when you are dead or retired.
MrJason
Well-known member
Congratulations on picking diesel tech as a profession. You'll really like the opportunities that present themselves after graduation.
Work hard, learn as much as you can and enjoy the discount while it lasts.
Jason
abvw
Well-known member
I owe $3000 (have spent $20,000+ in two years) on my Snap-on revolving truck account and paid 0 interest. I bought everything at full asking price (mostly BOGO) and I'm still ahead of my game.
Do you seriously expect the dealer to warranty your broken tools for life if you have never spend a dime on his truck? You have to keep a running tab (no matter big or small) to receive good service, unfortunately that is the rule, you have to pay to play. There's no free lunch.
Its much wiser to buy all the expensive specialty tools with the discount (single item/sets over $500) in school and run a small tab ($20/week) for the basic tools you'll be upgrading down your career (basic tools always have recurring BOGO deals, thats as close as you can get to student discount). This way you save on big bucks items and get to build a good relationship with your dealer.
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mikeburris
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2012
- Messages
- 188
MechanicNamedJohn (my harbor freight investment) REALLY screwed that up. How is he ever gonna make it.
XxToolAholicxX
Well-known member
Sorry looks like you did not read it correct. I said China not Taiwan. Taiwan seems to produce a little better quality tools then China. The tool I saw on eBay was a set of four offset wrenches for around $115.00, And it said manufactured to MATCOs specification in China. That is around $25.00 per wrench. Harbor Freight has the same set for $10.00 might be made in the same factory. Oh and did you know that Matco do not manufacturer any of their tools. The only thing they manufacture is Tool Boxes but then US General might be making those too. Lol
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I am a Toolaholic,Sometimes I regret it,Especially when the Toolman wont give me no credit
RedneckWelder
Well-known member
No, I read what you wrote correctly. I am pointing out how somebody will post on this board something about COO and the board will run with it.). I have a Matco truck coming weekly to my shop, vs. getting my info from Ebay.
Plenty of Matco stuff is still US made, mainly the hardline stuff (Armstrong). Yes I know that Matco makes their own boxes and relabels everything else, but some of what they offer is Matco exclusive (like the 24" locking flex ratchets, which are GREAT for the diesel field).
Conductor562
Well-known member
If you're not against Taiwan made tools, Napa offers the student discount on Carlyle tools as well.
Access to a truck would be a significant consideration. With that being said, in my area SO is the only brand that you can regularly find a truck. They also service their customers well over the phone with mail-in warranties. Keep your receipts!!!
If your dad is helping you, buy all you can. Shop for a good, used box.
Tom
If your dad is helping you, buy all you can. Shop for a good, used box.
Tom
oldldh
Well-known member
And remember...
You're operating a "Small Business"...
Successful small businesses have two things...
High Cash Flow and low expenses...
And the only asset you have to sell is your time...
Plan things with these items in mind, and you will do well...
Good luck in your training and new career...
You're operating a "Small Business"...
Successful small businesses have two things...
High Cash Flow and low expenses...
And the only asset you have to sell is your time...
Plan things with these items in mind, and you will do well...
Good luck in your training and new career...
autoxvaliant
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 52
Huh? Been a Mack/Volvo tech for a year and a half( straight out of UNOH tech school and army mechanic before) use my 3/4 gun 25% 1/2 25% and my 3/8 50% emissions/engine work. I would recommend digital/angle torque wrench/ good multimeter / test lead set
MY shop has 3/4 and 1 inch sockets and guns but I purchased my own so I don't have to try and find it.
And my 1000 buck HF 72 inch cabinet is going strong.
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