Mechanics Cable Ties

[kingdktgrv]

Hi all!
I am new here but thought this would be the perfect place to reach out. I work at a Tool company that has recently focused on manufacturing cable ties (zip ties, wire ties -whatever you want to call it). Our biggest market for these has always been the low voltage cable installers and electricians.
The question I have for all you DIY-ers and Mechanics is what sizes do you use and approximately how many a month do you go through. We are setting up a new machine and are really eager to break into this market.
Any answers would be much appreciated

 

[dacan23]

As a DIYer I think the most common size I use is one about 6" long and 1/8" wide. In my zip bucket is various ones 3" x 1/16" up to 12" x 1/4".

What baffles me is how they degrade over time and break when using or crack for whatever reason after time. Maybe I buy "cheap" zip ties. Just the other day I looked at something and I knew it had been zipped tied, but dont know where the tie went.

 

[kingdktgrv]

What baffles me is how they degrade over time and break when using or crack for whatever reason after time. Maybe I buy "cheap" zip ties. Just the other day I looked at something and I knew it had been zipped tied, but dont know where the tie went.[/QUOTE]

Well there could be a couple of issues there. First and foremost is the "color" you're using. NATURAL (white) cable ties will literally disintegrate within a few weeks if placed in sunlight. All manufacturers make a UV BLACK tie that actually has carbon powder mixed into the nylon material that makes it much more resistant to sunlight and UV rays.
Another issue that might be occurring is the source of the nylon. Almost all overseas manufacturers of cable ties source their 6/6 nylon from cheap chemical plants and in turn you receive a cheap product.

We actually make assortment packs that are bundles of 4"s (300pc) 7"s (200pc) and 11"s (100pc) in either Black or Natural. 600 ties total. Is that something similar to what you received?

 

[rlitman]

4", 7" and 11" is what I use most. In the 7" size, I look for the 75 lb tension rated ties. The 50lb ties seem to break way too easily.

I absolutely positively always go for the UV rated black ties. It makes a big difference in longevity. Still, nylon gets brittle over time.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

4", 7" and 11" is what I use most. In the 7" size, I look for the 75 lb tension rated ties. The 50lb ties seem to break way too easily.

Your hitting the same "issue" I wanted to highlight...

IMHO Zip Ties as we currently know them are excellent for cables, light duty stuff, etc..
What I would like from a mechanical/ag/industrial point of view would be shorter/smaller ties made in a Heavy Duty size & Load rating...

***** having to buy the 175lb rated 36" Long zip ties for strength/size reasons when It would be cheaper & easier to have 10" long ones of the same size.

Not to mention, having a wider profile is much easier on hydraulic hoses, etc..

IMHO if you stopped me on the street and asked me to define a "Mechanics Zip Tie" that's what I'd define it as... heavier duty size/rating/width in your shorter standard lengths...

 

[kingdktgrv]

Well when it comes to Cable Tie manufacturing length is not the biggest determining factor in cost to make. Its one of those rare economic models where volume is actually the determining factor. We currently manufacture Stainless Steel Cable Ties in 36" length that have a tensile strength of 200lbs. It would cost us a lot more to make that same tie in a 7" solely due to volume.
That is why you see 7" [or 8's depending on whose labeling] 50lbs ties the most cost effective due to them being the industry standard. 4" ties are actually more per inch.

 

[kingdktgrv]

But with that being said, if there is a demand for 7" Heavy duty (anything above 51lbs tensile) that could be a new avenue for us. I do know that I can get my hands on another manufacturers 8" 120lbs UV Black in 100pc bags if anybody ever had a need.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I prefer the metal retention tabs in the heads vs the common plastic. We use a ton of zip ties on our offroad race cars (securing electrical and hydraulic lines to the chassis), and I will second the notion that heavier rated ties in shorter lengths would be great. Either way, as long as they are made in USA, they will surely be better than the import ****.

 

[Superbec]

I tend to use much longer than needed just to get more thickness

I got 50$ of zip ties a few years ago and seem to last forever

What I would buy is a storage/dispenser thingy , I've seen some diy but can't say I like any design yet.

Good luck with this !

 

[kingdktgrv]

"What I would buy is a storage/dispenser thingy"
Can you elaborate on this? I am a little confused as to what you mean by this.

 

[rlitman]

I'm not sure what Superbec means, but my guess is one of these:

 

[Superbec]

I'm not sure what Superbec means, but my guess is one of these:

yes, but I have a bunch of zip tyes , different sizes from 2-3in to 15 or so

I'll take some pictures tomorrow, it's a grocery bag full of them

 

[theoldwizard1]

Our biggest market for these has always been the low voltage cable installers and electricians.

Remember, DIYers use zip ties for EVERYTHING, including structural support. I got a couple of bags of zip ties that fail when I put too much load on them.

 

[kctyphoon]

At work, I use the 250 pound rated, 27" (I think) sizes.. They get used to not only attach cables and fiber to strand, we also use them to pull the fiber out, hangin on a new or existing cable or strand. I can easily go through a hundred a day if I'm placing new stuff.. They get used for an hour, and then cut and thrown away.. When Verizon was really pushing the fios installs, the garage could go through a pallet in a couple weeks. They are the most used item on the truck.
They look like these - I can hang on them.

 

[Davefr]

Remember, DIYers use zip ties for EVERYTHING, including structural support.

Now why would you say a fool thing like that??

 

[kingdktgrv]

yes, but I have a bunch of zip tyes , different sizes from 2-3in to 15 or so

I'll take some pictures tomorrow, it's a grocery bag full of them

We give away a black 8" Strap Pac which has a belt clip on it. Never did have luck selling them ($4.99 ea) but the guys like them as a freebie.

 

[kingdktgrv]

and Davefr......that's the scariest picture I have ever seen!!!

 

[FigureItOut]

The question I have for all you DIY-ers and Mechanics is what sizes do you use and approximately how many a month do you go through. We are setting up a new machine and are really eager to break into this market.
Any answers would be much appreciated [emoji106]

I use 7" "twist tails" from T&B. I use maybe 60-150 a month for 12 volt installs and low voltage cabling. Rarely do I use them such that it's crucial they hold, normally they'll just secure wires neatly until the trim panels go back on. From there obliviously I want them to stay, and they do, but it isn't critical. In any case, I use 7" for length, not strength. I do stock 4" also, a 50 pack lasts several months.

After getting accustomed to the "twist tails", I couldn't possibly go back to having to trim the excess every time.



Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[dnschmidt]

I agree with the metal retainer comment (T&B use to use this and I think they still do) rather than a plastic piece going into the groves of the zip tie. Simply hold tighter.

 

[kingdktgrv]

The "metal tooth" is actually called a Metal Pawl Tie. T+B still does manufacture some of these but has mostly phased them out. I've seen independent testing that has proven the newer plastic pawl (like post early 2000's) has equal holding power as the metal pawl but its hard to convince someone of that since your eyes see the difference and assume metal > plastic.

 

[bczygan]

I recently used them to hang new brake lines from the old ones.

Also use them to secure fuel lines to aircraft structural tubing.

Bill

 

[Brownsfan]

I use 8" the most. Then 11" and 14" next. I can't remember who makes them, I order them from my distributor.

 

[rlitman]

I've been told by aircraft mechanics that the metal tooth is a requirement. My own experience is that the plastic tooth is rarely (if ever) the part to fail.

On those fully stainless steel bands, I've had the stainless steel tooth slip at tensions that were far lower than you'd expect from a similar width plastic band. Though the fully stainless bands are heat resistant, so they'd work on that exhaust repair above.

What I'd like to see, is a zip tie that doesn't have a sharp exposed edge when clipped with dikes.

 

[popparoach]

I've been told by aircraft mechanics that the metal tooth is a requirement. My own experience is that the plastic tooth is rarely (if ever) the part to fail.

On those fully stainless steel bands, I've had the stainless steel tooth slip at tensions that were far lower than you'd expect from a similar width plastic band. Though the fully stainless bands are heat resistant, so they'd work on that exhaust repair above.

What I'd like to see, is a zip tie that doesn't have a sharp exposed edge when clipped with dikes.

use flush cutters?.

 

[racingtadpole]

What I'd like to see, is a zip tie that doesn't have a sharp exposed edge when clipped with dikes.

Use the correct tools/techniques and you wont have that issue.

I use a Panduit GS2B or GS4H depending on the size of the cable tie.
If I cant get a cable tie tool into the space I use a pair of Crescent flush cutters and apply a little bit of tension to the tail while I cut it off, this pulls the tail proud slightly and when released will be recessed into the retaining block slightly.

 

[rlitman]

use flush cutters?.

Use the correct tools/techniques and you wont have that issue.

I use a Panduit GS2B or GS4H depending on the size of the cable tie.
If I cant get a cable tie tool into the space I use a pair of Crescent flush cutters and apply a little bit of tension to the tail while I cut it off, this pulls the tail proud slightly and when released will be recessed into the retaining block slightly.

Yeah, flush cutters are what I use now. And yes, they work fine for the task.

But that's just another tool I've got to have on my belt. And a uni-tasker tool at that (the worst kind of tool). Anything that can reduce that list is a good thing.

So, back to my question. Will it ever be possible to make a zip tie that can be snipped with dikes or linesman's pliers or the like, and yet not have a sharp end exposed? I'm sure someone will come up with a way eventually.

 

[stang2007]

Make sure you send some to Finnegan... Website

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Size?
80% of the time i use one that is longer than needed and trim the tail, 10% of the time it's not long enough and I string 2 together.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

What I'd like to see, is a zip tie that doesn't have a sharp exposed edge when clipped with dikes.

Yeah, flush cutters are what I use now. And yes, they work fine for the task.

But that's just another tool I've got to have on my belt. And a uni-tasker tool at that (the worst kind of tool). Anything that can reduce that list is a good thing.

So, back to my question. Will it ever be possible to make a zip tie that can be snipped with dikes or linesman's pliers or the like, and yet not have a sharp end exposed? I'm sure someone will come up with a way eventually.

Cut them through the edges rather than the flat sides.

 

[larry_g]

So, back to my question. Will it ever be possible to make a zip tie that can be snipped with dikes or linesman's pliers or the like, and yet not have a sharp end exposed? I'm sure someone will come up with a way eventually.

If you cut across the wide way you will leave little to no burr, try it. I've used a few thousand ties and was taught this years ago.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[jlenander]

The "metal tooth" is actually called a Metal Pawl Tie. T+B still does manufacture some of these but has mostly phased them out. I've seen independent testing that has proven the newer plastic pawl (like post early 2000's) has equal holding power as the metal pawl but its hard to convince someone of that since your eyes see the difference and assume metal > plastic.

My experience is similar to what a few others have posted; the ties with metal pawls have been stronger and have lasted longer for me.

Can you provide a link to the independent testing you have seen?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[rlitman]

If you cut across the wide way you will leave little to no burr, try it. I've used a few thousand ties and was taught this years ago.

lg
no neat sig line

It is better that way (you can also try to simulate a flush cut with electrician scissors), but the smaller burr is still unacceptable to me. For now, I'll stick with flush cutters. Anyway, I'm not looking for a better way to cut zip ties. I'd just love to see a zip tie that's more amenable to cutting. They've already got twist off ones (though I find them to be weaker than the normal type, so I don't use them). I'm sure that eventually someone will come up with this.

My experience is similar to what a few others have posted; the ties with metal pawls have been stronger and have lasted longer for me.

Can you provide a link to the independent testing you have seen?

Thanks,
Jon

The only metal pawl zip ties I've used are from top shelf makers such as T&B. That could easily explain why they have seemed stronger than similar sized cheaper ties. Simply because you cannot find a zip tie with a metal pawl made from 2nd rate nylon. And I've still seen these fail.
But among quality zip ties, I rarely see a plastic pawl fail.

 

[Sloper0204]

Hi all!
I am new here but thought this would be the perfect place to reach out. I work at a Tool company that has recently focused on manufacturing cable ties (zip ties, wire ties -whatever you want to call it). Our biggest market for these has always been the low voltage cable installers and electricians.
The question I have for all you DIY-ers and Mechanics is what sizes do you use and approximately how many a month do you go through. We are setting up a new machine and are really eager to break into this market.
Any answers would be much appreciated

Here's my biggest question; if you are aiming at DIY and mechanics, where is the easiest place to source your ties? Because looking at your website it seems much more geared towards corporate procurement types that have a list of "this MFG, this part number, this quantity" rather than someone sitting at home thinking about how they are going to zip-tie their siblings hands behind their back and leave them in a closet for a few hours.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

Small but busy equipment shop. I go through a few hundred or more a month of 4 sizes - wider type and thinner ones in lengths of 8" and 12". The Panduit DomeTop type that my shop supply guys sell is a healthy chunk of change when the accounting department sees that line items "just for wire ties". I'd love to fine a comparable source in some better form (bulk instead of 50 / 100 per bag?) ...This issue has just come up as accounting is on my *** since Ive spent nearly 8k so far this year on consumable shop supplies.....

 

[gml1998]

I have a few hundred stainless steel ones that my Dad had stashed. They are great for high heat applications.
I don't know where he got them or if they are still made.

 

[ptschram]

I go through hundreds during a build. Even between vehicle builds, they get used for everything. I laugh at how I "Waste" them as I remember being kid holding them like gold, now I buy them 1000 at a time

 

[Orangestang]

Being a tinknocker we use 3' or 4' ones about 3/8 wide. Some shops buy tyton (sp) brand that work well, other shops I've worked for buy the cheapest made in china ones, total **** I'll snap 4 or more just trying to hold a flex on a duct. I don't know how money is saved using those.

 

[MDK22]

Panduit and Ancor is what i see most in Big Rig arena for brands anyway. Panduit zip ties are strong as **** if they have the metal barb.

 

[Superbec]

ok, so this is what I'm talking about

I need a dispenser for these things, and it must hold a variety of them from 10 cm to more than half a meter , I don't use many but various and constant .

I think you wil get a portion of home owners market that also need various sizes.

I will probably end up with some pvc tubes nailed to a board but I like my workplace neat and NOT DIY looking.

 

[rustbucket5]

earlier this year i went through almost 1000 in a 3 day period, one challenge i had was getting a longer length that was the same width so i didnt have to use 2 strung together