Mechanics get screwed

[cgv69]

For a number of different reasons, this subject has been on my mind lately. IMO, Mechanics really get screwed when it comes to the amount (and cost) of tools they are expected to own to in order to work.

Most jobs outside of the "trades" do not require the employees to own their own tools. I'm in IT and my tools are stuff like computers, software, cell phone, etc.. If you add up the cost of all of the hardware and software I'm given to do my job, it would easily be over $10k. If I was a CAD guy or developer it would be even more.

Even within the skilled trades, mechanics have it the worst IMO. Sure Plumbers and Electricians are usually required to own some of their own tools too but typically just some basic hand tools. Most plumbers and electricians I know (who don't own their own business) have less then $200 worth of tools that "need" for their job. Power tools, diagnostic tools, etc. are typically supplied by the company they work for. Welders, maintenance guys, industrial electo\mechanical guys, etc., none of them typically have to invest near as much money into tools as the average mechanic does.

When you compare that to what the average mechanic gets paid and then factor in the toll that kind of work has on your body, it really makes me wonder why anybody would choose that line of work these days?

 

[litng1]

I agree with you.Guess they do it because they can

 

[jonzer12]

If you think any plumber or electrician has less than $200 in their own tools you are kidding yourself. Do mechanics earn their money? Yes, of course, but in general they get the benefit of going to the same location every day with a set schedule. I have lots of mechanic buddies, they make a decent wage.

 

[mayhemman]

in a way we get the shaft but like any job you have some passion for the work, or you probally won't make it terrible far unless your just determined that much.

most guys i know make ok living but they have been in it awhile and aren't building the set and putting out money to get going. it also depends on what job you have, some place really arn't worth your time to be at.

there are times i wish we made more getting started but ya gotta start somewhere.

 

[cgv69]

If you think any plumber or electrician has less than $200 in their own tools you are kidding yourself.

No actually I'm not. I personally know more then a few plumbers and electricians some of whom are even family members that I have talked to about this subject.

 

[cgv69]

there are times i wish we made more getting started but ya gotta start somewhere.

Yeah, one of the reasons why this is on my mind is my nephew is current going to school to be an auto tech. He works at a tire and service joint now and is in that typical situation of needing tools to do his job but not yet making enough money to afford them (without going into debt).

 

[Holt]

I think the reason for Mechanics having to buy there own tools is because in a shop you have multiple mechanics with 10 of thousands worth of tools each. A shop couldn't afford to stay open if they had to buy tools for ever tech. Even if they had a 1 or few community boxes with the basics it would turn into a high school drama with 1 tech hiding the 3/8 ratchet he likes. One good thing about being a mechanic (I am not one) is this is a learned skill which they can not take away and will always be needed. Not to mention the fact if you have tools you can do this job outside of your work. Electricians, Plumbers, carpenters if they are in a union cannot do work outside of the job. Most of he big tools they get paid for is because a $10,000 piece of equipment that gets used 4 times a year compared to 4 times a week is a little different. I always felt a mechanics should get tool allowances in there paycheck or a flex pay style where is gets taken out before taxes but used only for tools.

 

[allinon72]

I agree for the most part, however...

A lot of mechanics think its required to hop on the Snap On truck and run up 20k just to get started. The idea of starting small just doesn't exist anymore.

 

[brihvac]

I do industrial HVAC and I have a ton of money in tools and equipment. Most good mechanics do. If you think your getting the shaft, quit and find another job. My buddy is a flat rate diesel mechanic at a local Ford dealer since 1979 and he has his 40 hours by Wed. He makes over $100k a year because he is that good at his job. If someone works flat rate and is not making a good living....I think it's time for him to sharpen his skills.

 

[Holt]

I agree for the most part, however...

A lot of mechanics think its required to hop on the Snap On truck and run up 20k just to get started. The idea of starting small just doesn't exist anymore.

Well you have to in order to hang with the cool kids. I think the snap on thing is more of a they come to you and front you the tools. Craftsman wont do that unless you get the sears card with huge interest rate. But with the truck account if you can only pay 40 instead of 60 one paycheck you can work that out with the dealer. There is a human element to it.

No one starts small anymore because no one will hire them. Why would a shop hire some new guy just starting out with hardly any tools and almost no experience when he has apps on his desk from 50+ people with full sets of tools and 25+ year experience willing to do the same thing for the same price. Is this right? Depends who you ask. I say no. I would rather hire a new person and train him to my way but that it me. Someone gave me the chance at one point and I need to return that 10 fold I believe.

 

[KEH]

Mechanics can take their tools with them if they change jobs. Also, cost of tools are tax deductible, with some variations as has been discussed on here.

A lot of mechanics seem to go overboard on buying expensive tools. This is an opinion from profesional mechanics and has been discussed on here also.

It seems to me that another problem is resale value of tools. Those expensive tools and boxes don't seem to get a very high percentage of their cost back(I know, computers don't either), even considering they ARE used tools.

KEH

 

[rockwithjason]

i made a living for close to 20 years in construction and i had about $300 in tools in my bag. the other side of the issue is that i only had to provide what was on the tool list and the contractors provided the rest. non union guys would have entire service trucks with 10 grand worth of stuff in gang boxes.

 

[allinon72]

No one starts small anymore because no one will hire them. Why would a shop hire some new guy just starting out with hardly any tools and almost no experience when he has apps on his desk from 50+ people with full sets of tools and 25+ year experience willing to do the same thing for the same price. Is this right? Depends who you ask. I say no. I would rather hire a new person and train him to my way but that it me. Someone gave me the chance at one point and I need to return that 10 fold I believe.

What you are saying makes sense but I think there is a happy medium between walking on the job with a Stanley tool set from Walmart vs. rolling in with a 10k Snap On box right out of school.

 

[byoungblood]

My brother is in HVAC, and receives an annual tool allowance, somewhere between $150-200 if I remember right. Most of the more expensive test equipment or job specific tools are provided to him by his employer. Basic hand and power tools are his responsibility, though he can usually purchase some of them through his employer at better prices.

 

[itguy08]

Interesting topic and one I always wondered about. Especially since if I wasn't also in IT, the only thing that appeals to me is turning wrenches....

Well you have to in order to hang with the cool kids. I think the snap on thing is more of a they come to you and front you the tools. Craftsman wont do that unless you get the sears card with huge interest rate. But with the truck account if you can only pay 40 instead of 60 one paycheck you can work that out with the dealer. There is a human element to it.

Yes but Sears also takes Visa/Mastercard, Discover, and American Express which you can almost always get a lower rate than the 19%+ rate that the Sears card charges you if you need the credit.

I do get that the tool truck tools are of a better quality but I don't see why you would pay high interest to them unless you had no other option.

 

[lutter94]

You can't tell me a $300 snap on wrench set is more reliable or can earn you more money than a $75 craftsman equivalent set.....

As for shops owning all the tools, it wouldn't work. I think it is relatively easy to get into a service tech position. Not bad mouthing anyone, there are some great techs out there, but there are also a lot of bad ones. Tools would disappear on a daily basis. Requiring techs to own their tools forces them to be responsible.

Wouldn't it be possible to purchase tools with student loans (while in tech school for said program), interest rate wouldn't be horrible, and could buy plenty of tools with it. While avoiding tool company interest rates...

 

[djjsr]

The company that I retired from had 17 manufacturing plants in this country. The policy had always been that mechanics supplied their own tools with the exception of specialty tools and any wrenches over 1".

As part of the 5S program, one of these plants hired SnapOn to create "tool boards" for each major piece of equipment. It seemed like a good idea, good quality tools within an arms reach and tailored to that specific piece of equipment.

I was there the day they rolled out the project. It was impressive. There were dozens of these red metal SnapOn racks all over the plant. Nicely organized, they contained every tool necessary for daily repairs and adjustments. (not major overhauls)

If I remember correctly, the total cost was close to $200,000. That's a lot of money in my book but theoretically it would save time, therefore save money.

Unfortunately, after a few weeks some of the tools started disappearing and by the end of the first 2 or 3 months the virtually empty toolboards were removed.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Kinda been on both sides of this one...Used to work at a GM Dealership (Part time, college job)...now i'm an IT guy. And one of my good friends USED to have his own Snap On truck/franshise..

I do think guys blow way more money then they should..I'll blame the tool trucks and that pricing scheme for it more then anything. I dont want to convert this thread into a Tool truck brand war..but all I will say is there is a cost for the convenience of having the tools come to you, and for you to be able to buy everything & anything on credit with terms as loose as they are.

As for your employer buying the tools...its different everywhere I guess. My dad was a "Paper Mill Mechanic" for 30+ years... Policy there was you buy the first, we'll buy replacements if you break em. So he started out small years ago with C-Man items and when he retired, took home 2 huge Kennedy "Mill Carts" stuffed full of Snappy tools.
From my dealership experience, I can also say theres a reason they put nice casters on those boxes...I've seen techs leave to go work at the Ford dealer down the road for 2.00 an hour more...then a year or so later they're back...revolving door. Would you want to be the employer who just spent 30k on tools to watch them go out the door? As someone else mentioned, a shared pool of tools would be worse then watching reality TV.

 

[rmchrgr]

When you start out and have very little, yeah it gets expensive. Think of it as an investment though since you're essentially in business for yourself. You can't get paid the big bucks unless you do the more challenging jobs and you can't do those jobs without the right tools and the knowledge of how to use them.

Plus, there is a big difference between professional tools and lesser brands. If you use tools every day, you would know what the difference is. You pay for quality. It's a premium price for sure but you get what you pay for. Plus they will warranty it if breaks.

Buying a professional tool box is a huge initial expense but kind of a necessary one. A cheap or small box becomes a hindrance once you reach a certain level and have acquired enough tools.

Up until very recently, I was a dealership tech. I never had a two story deal with its own zip code but after about a year of working every day, my 'starter' tool box was driving me nuts. I got an OK deal on a used 'pro' Mac tools box with a locker that a guy traded up on. It was a couple grand and it took me a while to pay it off but it helped my productivity and gave me room to grow into. It's pretty much filled up now and I don't owe any money on anything.

I disliked borrowing tools for every job. The guys around you get annoyed if you have their tool when they need it. As your career advances, you tend to specialize in certain aspects of the trade - powertrain, driveline, electrical etc and you tend to buy the tools you need more frequently. And if you stay with it the amount of things you need to acquire gets less.

The place you work for generally should have some of the specialty tools but we all know how that goes. One place I worked at you had to have your own brake lathe bits which to me was totally ridiculous. They didn't maintain the lathe either and setting it up every time to cut a rotor was a huge waste of time.

Where it gets expensive is when you end up buying slight variations on things that you know will work better in certain jobs. I had so many different work lights, ratchets, pliers for this or that etc. It's endless, especially when the tool guys come around with the latest and greatest mouse trap. Do you need 8 varieties of swivel impact sets? Probably not but guys have them. I think some (especially the younger hot dog types) get in over their heads are into the tool guys for thousands of dollars. I would set a limit and if I reached it, would stop buying tools until I paid off what I owed.

So yeah, I'm not turning wrenches anymore but I still have all my tools and can do whatever I need to do at home. I love that!

 

[fm2176]

I started as an apprentice tech making $6.50 an hour at a Cadillac dealership (taking a $0.50 pay cut from my first mechanic job at Great Dane). My first year I made around $16k and spent who knows how much in tools. It ***** to get started, but in time things balance out. If I were still a technician (I moved to material handling service a couple of years prior to joining the Army) I'd probably be making $50-60k a year now--not too bad for the area I'm from. My brother made good money before he got injured, and was spending almost nothing on tools in the past few years.

 

[braol]

I figure it all started back when the auto repair industry started. Probly so few tools needed it was no big deal to have to buy your own and it just never changed. Not like today with so many different hand tools and specialty tools needed just to do day to day work. But I dont mind it, its kinda nice having your own tools. But I draw the line at expensive tools like scan tools or large items like jacks and stands that dont fir in a toolbox. Or specialty tools that are rarely used shouldnt have to be purchased by the tech, it should be a shop owned tool.

AFA new techs having to go into deap debt to buy $10k box and fill it with snapon tools, sounds like a mindset issue to me. Definitly not necessary. I didnt buy a good box until after my first 10 years or so in the business and it was used when I got it.

 

[Professur]

I work in IT myself. Was a service tech on the road for 10 years, fixing everything from cabling and switches, to servers, desktops, even laptops. My truck was my personal vehicle, and if I had less than $3000 in personal paid tools and parts in it at any time, it was because I'd left stuff at work to load machines and racks for delivery and installation. An IT tech walking around with a 3lbs fist maul does draw people's attention.

My deal with the company was anything used or used up they paid me for. Initial outlay was mine. Was that unusual? You bet. Most techs, you'd be lucky if they had the right screwdriver when they first had to work on a Compaq. But that was how I kept the top 1% of our customers asking for me. Anyone else would take days to resolve an issue I could resolve in hours, if not minutes. Supplied my own laptop too, back in the day. A cobbled together nightmare of 486 parts that kicked the *** of anything until the PII showed up. Software? Same deal. I'd buy it, test it, work out all the bugs. Then, if I used it for something billable, the company paid for it.

 

[whitetrash1]

Most of the welders I know are mobile and have a large truck as part of there needs. Start with a 50k diesel before you ever buy a single tool and get back to me on complaining about buying tools

 

[Professur]

I think the OP needs to understand that the majority of what he's calling IT tools equate to the lifts, compressors, diagnostic computers and alignment rigs of a garage.

 

[kc-steve]

As a former manufacturer's representative in electronics service, part of what you say is true . . . my tools were always purchased by the company and replacements were taken from expense report filings. The companies needed to have their representatives fully equipped to do the job properly and often I was in places where unusual tools were not available if I didn't have one. Part of my job was giving the customer confidence I could do the job.

I wouldn't say that mechanics are screwed though, because it would be stupid to take a job where you felt right off the bat you were screwed. It would be best to seek something you enjoy doing at the going rate of pay. If that is the industry standard then so be it.

Steve

 

[Steinmetz]

For a number of different reasons, this subject has been on my mind lately. IMO, Mechanics really get screwed when it comes to the amount (and cost) of tools they are expected to own to in order to work.

Most jobs outside of the "trades" do not require the employees to own their own tools. I'm in IT and my tools are stuff like computers, software, cell phone, etc.. If you add up the cost of all of the hardware and software I'm given to do my job, it would easily be over $10k. If I was a CAD guy or developer it would be even more.

Even within the skilled trades, mechanics have it the worst IMO. Sure Plumbers and Electricians are usually required to own some of their own tools too but typically just some basic hand tools. Most plumbers and electricians I know (who don't own their own business) have less then $200 worth of tools that "need" for their job. Power tools, diagnostic tools, etc. are typically supplied by the company they work for. Welders, maintenance guys, industrial electo\mechanical guys, etc., none of them typically have to invest near as much money into tools as the average mechanic does.

When you compare that to what the average mechanic gets paid and then factor in the toll that kind of work has on your body, it really makes me wonder why anybody would choose that line of work these days?

Try setting up a medical or a dental practice. Or even a law practice.

 

[03protege]

I agree for the most part, however...

A lot of mechanics think its required to hop on the Snap On truck and run up 20k just to get started. The idea of starting small just doesn't exist anymore.

This brings to mind the guy on here who was so harshly criticized for starting his own auto repair in his garage with $3k with of Harbor Freight tools.

 

[Man of Many Vices]

You need the knowledge, skill, experience, certification, attitude and TOOLS to do the job. You cannot be a professional without them all.

I would have my own tools even if the company provided them. I want to be able to roll my box away if I have to, and start elsewhere the next day.

Try setting up a medical or a dental practice. Or even a law practice.

Yep. And the same goes for barbers and toenail polishers.

 

[cgv69]

I work in IT myself. Was a service tech on the road for 10 years, fixing everything from cabling and switches, to servers, desktops, even laptops. My truck was my personal vehicle, and if I had less than $3000 in personal paid tools and parts in it at any time, ...
My deal with the company was anything used or used up they paid me for. Initial outlay was mine. Was that unusual? You bet. ...

Not your story way outside the norm in the IT world, it's even somewhat hard to believe? "$3000 in personal paid tools and parts in it at any time". Tools, what tools? I was a IT service tech in the 90's and never needed anything more then a bit driver with a couple of bits (yes, you needed some torx bit for Compaqs but so what?). A small precision screwdriver set came in handy for laptops and a knife to open boxes with and cut the occasional zip tie with. That and the occasional paper clip was all I ever needed. These days you don't even need that as most systems now are designed to be tool-less.

I'm guessing the majority of that $3000 was in parts and on that note I have to say you are the only tech I have ever talked to that had to buy his own parts. Sounds to me like you were an independent sub-contractor which is just one small step away from a small business owner and not comparative to this discussion.

Anyway, back to the original point....

Yes, some guys are more into tools then others and those guys tend to spend more buying more tools then they really "need"

Yes, I'm sure we can all come up with some unique or unusual situation where someone in another trade has as many or more tools then the average mechanic.

Yes, there are some mechanics in some parts of the country making very good money ($100k +)

There are always exceptions to everything but typically speaking, the average mechanic needs to have a lot more personally owned tools then just about any other profession and those same mechanics are typically making much less then $100k per year.

While there are many jobs and professional that do not require the worker to purchase their own tools, I do understand that it is not practical for the average shop or dealership to supply those tools to each of their techs.

My main point was simply this, the cost of being a mechanic is steep and I believe that if you look at it from a cost of working/paid compensation perspective, I think the average mechanic comes up short compared to most other occupations.

 

[cgv69]

Try setting up a medical or a dental practice. Or even a law practice.

Apples meet oranges

Setting up any business is expensive but that has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about here

 

[Aberdale]

Mechanics aren't alone. There are many professions that require a sizable investment to start . . . and to keep current.

How about farming? I figure I have somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000 in equipment that I've had to buy over the past 10 years to be competitive. And that doesn't include the land, seed, fertilizer, and fuel.

How about a trucker Owner/Operator? It's not hard to rack up $300-500,000 or more in a rig and equipment. I bet most rack up as much in fuel in a month than most mechanics spend on tools in their career.

How about a restaurant owner? Or a plumber? Or a doctor's office? Or even a landlord? If you think about life outside the cubicle, almost every profession requires an investment to get started. I don't think mechanics get screwed any more than most of us.

If the shop supplied the tools, how many of those tools might get "lost" or just walk away? (I've had some experience with this when I had a business with employees.) By owning the tools, there is a much greater incentive for the mechanic to take care and keep track of them. And the mechanic can often decide how much they want to spend on their particular tool set, from HF basics to every specialized tool in the SO catalog.

'dale

 

[firebox40dash5]

I don't see an issue with mechanics being expected to bring "the basics" to work. Yes, there's a lot more to those "basics" than a lot of professions, but it's not like you lose them if you leave, or they're worthless if you switch professions. Hell, I've got a small enough amount into my mostly-Craftsman collection that if I decided to quit wrenching and work in another industry today, there's not a whole lot I'd even consider selling... maybe some of my air tools, since I wouldn't likely have a big enough compressor at home to run them, and wouldn't need to worry so much about saving time. There's the advantage of buying less expensive, still decent tools, rather than going on the truck and blowing 5 figures on "the best" tools, and another few thousand on a nice, new toolbox. I haven't done the math in a while, but I'm probably around $4-5k into all my tools, and my box. About half of that was spent in one shot to get up and running with my own tools, the rest I've added to since.

Now, the advanced stuff some places seem to expect their techs to buy... that's another story. I get this giant "WTF" face when I read a thread here of a tech wanting/needing to buy their own $3000 scanner. I can understand wanting your own basic scan tool, something like a Pro Scan/Nemisys... but I'd draw the line around a grand. The shop should be providing an advanced scanner, it's not like everyone is going to be needing it all the time, at the same time. One of the guys in another shop in my building went on the Snappy truck and bought... an A/C machine?!?! OK, he did it of his own accord, but why would one think it's necessary or appropriate for an employee to own a multi-thousand-dollar machine that there's practically no need to have more than one per shop of? His boss ended up selling my boss the shop's old A/C machine and just letting the guy do all the A/C work because he didn't want his other guys using this guy's machine without him making money off it.

 

[-Brent-]

Here's a slightly different angle. It may not wholly apply to why shops require their workers to provide tools, but...

I worked in construction, back east. There were a couple spare belts filled with the required tools to help out when someone started. They were required to get their own tools by the second paycheck and wouldn't you know, they'd lose tools provided/loaned within that two-week period. These weren't fancy/high end tools and it wasn't theft, these guys were just absent minded.

Respect for tools is a LOT different when you own them.

This has got me thinking though, do the aviation guys have to provide their own tools?

 

[cgv69]

I wouldn't say that mechanics are screwed though, because it would be stupid to take a job where you felt right off the bat you were screwed. It would be best to seek something you enjoy doing at the going rate of pay. If that is the industry standard then so be it.

Maybe screwed was the wrong choice of terms but I do feel like they have a lot more out of pocket expenses compared to other professions.

As far as it being "stupid to take a job..." comment. I don't think they are stupid or go into it thinking they are screwed. I think that most people starting off in that trade are just young and naive. They really don't grasp the cost (both financially or physically) of their decision. Most just think it would be cool to get paid to work on cars all day.

 

[Major Ramifications]

Mechanics get screwed? Well, maybe the single ones...

 

[Steinmetz]

Mechanics aren't alone. There are many professions that require a sizable investment to start . . . and to keep current.

How about farming? I figure I have somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000 in equipment that I've had to buy over the past 10 years to be competitive. And that doesn't include the land, seed, fertilizer, and fuel.

How about a trucker Owner/Operator? It's not hard to rack up $300-500,000 or more in a rig and equipment. I bet most rack up as much in fuel in a month than most mechanics spend on tools in their career.

How about a restaurant owner? Or a plumber? Or a doctor's office? Or even a landlord? If you think about life outside the cubicle, almost every profession requires an investment to get started. I don't think mechanics get screwed any more than most of us.

If the shop supplied the tools, how many of those tools might get "lost" or just walk away? (I've had some experience with this when I had a business with employees.) By owning the tools, there is a much greater incentive for the mechanic to take care and keep track of them. And the mechanic can often decide how much they want to spend on their particular tool set, from HF basics to every specialized tool in the SO catalog.

'dale

Thank you.

 

[Cougar]

The company that I retired from had 17 manufacturing plants in this country. The policy had always been that mechanics supplied their own tools with the exception of specialty tools and any wrenches over 1".

As part of the 5S program, one of these plants hired SnapOn to create "tool boards" for each major piece of equipment. It seemed like a good idea, good quality tools within an arms reach and tailored to that specific piece of equipment.

I was there the day they rolled out the project. It was impressive. There were dozens of these red metal SnapOn racks all over the plant. Nicely organized, they contained every tool necessary for daily repairs and adjustments. (not major overhauls)

If I remember correctly, the total cost was close to $200,000. That's a lot of money in my book but theoretically it would save time, therefore save money.

Unfortunately, after a few weeks some of the tools started disappearing and by the end of the first 2 or 3 months the virtually empty toolboards were removed.

That is sad.

 

[wagzilla]

Yes, some guys are more into tools then others and those guys tend to spend more buying more tools then they really "need"

I'm a fire mechanic, I work on firetrucks ambulances, firepumps for the last 18 years, I would have never guessed how much I would spend in tools.

They told me I would need to buy My own tools, I thought about $8,000 LOL
that was a year. I do not have doubles of anything. If a tool dose not make me money I will trade it in on one that dose. I have a one man shop, So I don't share and I don't barrow. I think if you need to barrow if more the two times you need to buy it. Tool trucks have never made intrust, I will not buy it inless they carry the loan. I pay cash and work the deal and wait for sales, Computer I only keep for a short time trade them in every year, it works for me, I don't make great money but I have a great retirement.

For me I think I did OK. I watch alot of the big guys come over to work the city yard and less pay to get a good retirement. I don't feel so bad any more!!

but If I was to do it again, I think I would work smarter not harder!!!

James

 

[cgv69]

Mechanics aren't alone. There are many professions that require a sizable investment to start . . . and to keep current.

How about farming?... How about a trucker Owner/Operator? ... How about a restaurant owner?

Congratulations, you win the prize for naming the most private\small businesses that all have nothing in common with being a mechanic working at someone else's shop. You would think the term "owner" would have been a clue here?

Now if a mechanic was opening up his own shop then you'd have a point but that's not at all what we are talking about. Lets try to keep it on track here people and make fair, logically comparisons.

 

[justanengineer]

As a "mechanic," I had a monthly tool allowance for "wear and tear" and a tool room containing the really expensive items. I also went home at the end of the day, forgot about my job, and played in the garage.

As an engineer, I have to pay licensing, higher education, professional society, and a whole raft of other fees and bills, in addition to convincing the company that they really need to pay ~$10k per program that is on the work computer on a yearly basis. Now, when Im not traveling for work, I have to attend professional society meetings, classes, read/learn about technology/software/techniques/research relevant to work, and a whole host of other time consuming activities. Example - The last SAE conference I attended involved three days vacation and $2k of my own money. Tell me again that auto techs are getting screwed.

People can ***** about things being greener or darker across the proverbial fence, but in reality, we each choose our profession and its burdens so to gripe about it is just plain silly. To be successful at anything in life you need to bust your *** and make smart decisions. Ive made ones I can live with, hopefully others can too.