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Mennonite 'barn' build (30x40)

amx1041

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Oct 29, 2012
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Mt Solon Virginia
That's going to be a beautiful building when you're done. Definitely subscribed.
We have quite a few Mennonites in my area and they can do some awesome work.
 
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cdnc

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Ontario, Canada
That siding really gives a modern feel to it! I like it, a lot :D

Thanks - me too! We were originally going to use board and batten but the builder suggested shiplap when we wanted horizontal and vertical siding. I think it's a cleaner look and should look great when painted. We wanted a more modern look so tried to build some of that into the build.
 
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cdnc

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First, I really like the design. Clean. Simple.



I don't know what the cost difference would be, but I think I would have sized that steel beam so that no center post would be required.

Not sure about that either but the beam is a good size now I'm sure it would have been huge. The pole is not a big deal as we'll likely have a few pieces of equipment using the main doors and hopefully a lift off the north door. I remember asking the designer if Mennonites would know how to use the beam!
 
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cdnc

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That's going to be a beautiful building when you're done. Definitely subscribed.
We have quite a few Mennonites in my area and they can do some awesome work.

Yes I'm quite impressed with the overall build quality and more with the speed and work ethic. The day I was there the crew arrived and were out of the van and onto the build in less than five minutes...no smokes, no coffee...just up the ladders and working.

They are also so comfortable working at heights and in poor conditions (they had a number of days in snow storms. I watched three guys run up a ladder holdIng shovels then Up the open section of roof framing and then walk along the ridge line - 35+ feet in the air on a 12/12 roof clearing snow off the roof. Crazy! These guys are a well oiled machine and I think build good quality at a fair price.
 

VR6ix

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Mar 24, 2013
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Onterrible, Canuckistan
The crew comes from around Mount Forest and our place is closer to Collingwood

The rolling hills in the one shot with the pond & the dog made me think it had to be up in that area. Lots of menos from Waterloo and North, we use them for steel work and as long as you don't push them outside their comfort level (technical stuff) they are great people to work with, no BS at all. Like Cudajas, I'm down in SW Ontario.

Love the design of the barn and the material choices, with the wood siding and metal roof and windows and skylights it looks very... rustic modern? or is it, modern rustic :D Are you going to stain the siding or just seal it? The doors will add a lot of character too, look forward to updates!

Thanks for sharing, cheers!
 
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cdnc

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...Love the design of the barn and the material choices, with the wood siding and metal roof and windows and skylights it looks very... rustic modern? or is it, modern rustic :D Are you going to stain the siding or just seal it? The doors will add a lot of character too, look forward to updates!

Thanks for sharing, cheers!

Thanks! I spent a lot of time thinking about how to have a slightly modern look to the bank barns in the area. The original bank barn on this property was taken down in the 1970s (the original "bank" is located beside the smaller cabin you can see in some of the pictures. In any case we like the rural-modern, modern-rural, rustic-modern....whatever look 🙂

Yes the plan is to stain or paint the siding black as well with some of the siding potentially highlighted in a different colour. The wood is still green, so it will likely be at least a year before we do that.

CDNC
 

cosmopedro

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Southwest VT
First, I really like the design. Clean. Simple.

couldn't agree more - very nice design, and clean, quality work too!


I don't know what the cost difference would be, but I think I would have sized that steel beam so that no center post would be required.

also agree - or perhaps have used TJI joists designed to transfer load to the outside walls and have a clear span?

Regardless - I do hope you're planning to tie the beam into the supporting posts and brace it laterally so there's no chance of it slipping sideways off the end posts? The pic in your post appears to show it just sitting on the built-up support post...

EDIT: I see that the 2nd floor framing has the top of the beam 'captured' - but every inspector I've ever dealt with would require some sort of tie-in with the structure, at both ends of the beam. Even though you have the post blocked in, my local inspectors would ask for solid blocking up at the top to 'prevent beam twist' even though I can't imagine it happening in your case.
 
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peb

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I love the build -- any news on your heating decision? Solar support on the roof or thermal heating?
 
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cdnc

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Gents - where has all the time gone? I now realize that I have effectively been the General Contractor on this project (took me long enough to realize no-one else was going to do it!) and whoever says GC don't earn their keep doesn't know what they are talking about!

Now where were we? Last time I posted we had the foundation in and the wall up and were waiting for the big 'thaw' to allow me to work on levelling inside the foundation and doing the slab pour.

Well, part of the delay was weather like this - this is mid April with a nice spring snowstorm and nice cold temps. Inside is still frozen at this point so no real progress in early spring.

More to come on grading the foundation.

IMG_4599_zpsienl1ke9.jpg
 
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cdnc

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When the temperatures finally warmed up I spent some time pondering how to do some final grading on the inside. Thankfully and actually quite amazingly given the size of the machine we were using to fill the foundation, the starting point wasn't too bad - probably within an inch..but 1" by 1200 sq' is still a lot of stuff to move!

Unfortunately, the interior was filled with leftover wood, three 10x10 rolling doors packed in crates and miscellaneous other debris. I think I spent a weekend just getting that stuff out of the barn.


I had a high side on the South side and a bit of a low spot on the North side. So, some serious raking, shovelling and wheelbarrowing managed to get things in better shape. I spent a fair amount of time thinking about what the grade had to be given insulation, drains, slab thickness and slab slope...lots of confusion over the seemingly simple task!

I became quite good friends with the the laser level. Being slightly incompetent I think I ended up renting one of these three times, but they really are essential for this kind of work, especially if you are working alone. I was able to mark the walls and a series of stakes and use that to help set the grade. If they weren't so ****** expensive, I;d probably have bought one, but the commercial rental versions are great.

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As you can see I set some slightly deeper spots to add a lift (hopefully) at some later point. I put in some thicker 24"x24"x~9" footings. So I hope to be good to go with that as well.

After spending the spring pondering, I also decided that I wanted to add a drain. I'll be bringing the tractor in with the snowblower / blade and I want somewhere for the melt water to go so that it doesn't freeze the doors shut. Say hello to about 2 more months of work!

In the end I decided to go with three trench drains with one in front of each door. The drains are light duty commercial grade polymer concrete that come in 3' sections. They sell the crappy plastic ones in big box stores, but I was able to track down some good stuff and connect with the company, find a local dealer, negotiate price and then get delivery. Rough-in of location:

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In the end I was really pleased, but I wish I had figured this out before I filled the foundation - it would have saved a lot of work and grief. I went with 4" pipe which was probably overkill for my needs - 3" would have been cheaper and required less digging..but overkill can be good.

I had to remove a bunch of gravel to get the pipe system connected and then backfill it all. Given that I'm lazy, I rented a mini Ex to help with this job (and managed to bang out a bunch of other jobs on the weekend as well). This is the picture of rough placement of the pipes and drains before final positioning and gluing.

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The drain system all connects together with two drains running to a trap in the West wall and the North drain connecting to the same connection. Drilling the 4" hole in the wall made me never want to pick-up a drill again. Again, lesson learned...spend way more time than you think planning and staging the work!

That same weekend, the electrician came by and suggested I dig a new trench for a new power run (vs. using the old run). Made sense to me and the mini Ex made amazingly fast work of the job. In two days I managed to dig the rough areas for the drains, dig a 100' x 4' deep power and water trench, dig a 200' long ditch AND dig a 12' x 12' foundation for a (future job that will likely take an entire summer as well) wood-fired pizza oven! Best $300 I ever spent!

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RickP

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Jan 15, 2013
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Annapolis, MD
Nice job - that looks like a ton of work! I'm really impressed by everything you were able to get done with that mini-ex. I've always rented trenchers in the past but I may have to rethink that next time I need to do some digging.
 
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cdnc

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Ontario, Canada
Nice job - that looks like a ton of work! I'm really impressed by everything you were able to get done with that mini-ex. I've always rented trenchers in the past but I may have to rethink that next time I need to do some digging.

They are really amazing. It took a few hours to become comfortable with the operation but after that it was easy to use. This was the smallest size so it was quite easy to operate close to the walls etc. Highly recommend
 
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cdnc

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So here we are in late May with lots of fiddling around with the drain pipes and trench drains. Lot of hours spent placing the pipe, ensuring the right slope, cutting lengths and gluing connections. The hardest part for me was making sure the the drains would be at the right level to match the slab - stressful - don't want to screw up the pour!

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After a solid few days of work I had everything connected to my satisfaction and started to backfill the pipes and made sure there would be a 4" gap below the drain for the concrete footer under the drains. All three drains are in, and dug the extra footings for a potential lift in the future (orange flagged areas) and at the last minute decided to add a conduit to the centre (thankfully I did as the electrician ended up adding an outlet on the centre support and it's been hugely helpful!)

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I had finished the final grading to a reasonable level (or at least to the level that I was fed shovelling and raking gravel) and was ready for what I hoped would be fairly quick work to put down vapour barrier and 2" of insulation for under the slab. That work did proceed quite quickly - managed to get the vapour barrier down and taped without too much problem.

Final step was to place the insulation. That wasn't too bad, was fairly easy to place but did have to go back over the next few weeks to trim pieces of insulation and did some rework around the centre support post.

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Next up - running new power!
 
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cdnc

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I went with a relatively light duty (residential) roll up door. The two West doors have motors and the North door is chain drive. So far they have been fine. They are nowhere near as insulated as a standard garage door but it keeps the ceiling clear. You'll see more posted shortly
 
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cdnc

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Ontario, Canada
I love having a place in a rural area (who doesn't?). For me, one of the best parts is the people and the level of trust, common sense and general lack of BS.


I had contacted a local electrician to do the wiring. I initially asked them to trench some cable of a smaller project and noted that I was putting up an equipment building and would like them to quote on the work. They did the smaller project basically sight unseen - I wasn't even there and sent me the bill.

In the early spring I met with the electrician and discussed this project. He suggested I retrench the power to allow for a bigger box and we walked around the shell of the building while I described some of my thoughts (e.g., may put a lift in, etc).

As noted earlier, I madly trenched while I had the mini Ex and then decided to send my wife to town to buy some water pipe - might as well run it in the trench while I can? Installed the pipe, added some insulation and then worked with my boys to do a bit of backfilling.

That week I called the electrician and told him the trench was in...with the idea that he would get back to me with a quote on the job. He say's "ya I know, we already ran the power and put in the rough electrical" Who needs an estimate or a contract!

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The part that I like is that without asking they ran the main power, but also cable, phone, etc and put in a control line to allow me to turn on/off the outside lights from the house. Brilliant!

Inside, they also included a few surprises that I hadn't specifically mentioned. They ran the wire for a future lift, but also added a line for a compressor, right where it should be and added a welding circuit with access both inside AND outside...very smart! They also added an outlet on the centre post - for those still planning - you NEED one of these, it's probably my most used plug so far!

Brough in the big guns to back-fill the trench and do a bit of site prep for the concrete trucks

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I was so ready to have the slab poured as so much was contingent on that step. Installing the garage doors, adding the man door, stairs to the second floor, interior finish, etc. Well, I had to wait...it seems that concrete guys are REALLY busy. So much so, that my contractor had sublet the work to a different team - more on that later.

So, we took the time to enjoy a bit of the summer!

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cdnc

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OK, I promise to have everything posted by the time the one year anniversary rolls around. After a busy summer the concrete crew was ready to pour in August. Chance of rain but decided to push ahead anyway as I didn't want the project to be pushed even further out.

Crew arrived and did the final prep and then two trucks rolled in during the AM with the concrete.

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The finish crew (one guy plus one guy from the concrete crew seemed to be off to a good start laying down a relatively smooth finish. Were were then hit with a torrential rain storm and while I was tarping a 10x12 slab that I also had poured, these guys sat in their truck - idiots. Damaged a bit of the finish near the West trench drains, but I'll have to live with it. The finisher also managed to trowel over some of the trench drains requiring them to come back and cut them out.

Final finish is ok, but had stains that I ended up sanding our with a floor sander as best we could. The crew offered to come and fix it but I decided I'd rather fix it properly myself.
 
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cdnc

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The rest of August was a bit of a write-off. Various things going on and then off to Maine for a family vacation : - )


We made great progress in September! First I had a garage door installer come and install the three doors. Definitely not a DIY job - took two guys all day to mount the doors, wire them, etc. Finally was able to close the place after 6+ months. Quite like the doors - silent, reasonably sturdy for relatively light use. Not well insulated, but that's the trade-off I made.

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Also had the man door installed - went with an 8 foot door with frosted glass. Like the size relative to the building and the lovely light.

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More importantly had the crew come and do the interior work - insulation and adding plywood to walls and ceiling. Quite pleased with the warmth and light. Same crew as the building crew and completed everything in less than two days.

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Also started the finish on the second floor - starting to look good!

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cdnc

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For interest, I thought I would summarize some stats on overall build, timing and cost. I'll start with timeline in this post and then post something on costs. I post the final photos of things like lighting, heating etc next post.

Timeline

As I mentioned, I was effectively acting as the general contractor for the build and that definitely slowed things down. Took a lot of time to get sub-trades lines up for final work, etc. The good news is that the costs were spread out a bit and working with my timeline ensured that i got mostly what I wanted.

July 2015 Contacted the builder / fully booked until winter
August 2015 Plans finalized
Sept 2015 Permit issued
Dec 2015 Excavating, foundation and backfill

March 2016 Core build of frame, floors, roof, siding, windows, etc (~1.5 weeks)
June 2016 Finished interior work for floors, levelling, etc after thaw
June 2016 rough-in electrical
Aug 2016 Floor poured
Sept 2016 rollup garage doors installed / fully enclosed
Sept 2016 Interior finish and insulation (2-3 days)
Oct 2016 Sanding / sealing floor
Oct 2016 Final electrical
Nov 2016 Final exterior grading
Dec 2016 Propane installed and two heaters

August 2017 Finished a few outside electrical pieces

The Mennonite team coordinated the foundation pour, core build, floor pour and insulation. I had to coordinate excavation, electrical and garage doors. If I was to do it again, I would have them do the doors to get the building sealed up faster (saved a bit of $ but took a long time).

The only other issue I had was the concrete pour - took a long time. Didn't end up using their main crew and the new crew screwed up on the finish. Not overly noticeable, but frustrating. The usual issues with any builder, they were super busy so took time to get them on site, but when they were there, things flew (i.e they probably did the full build including interior in about 2 weeks).

I kept a reasonable log of my time and would estimate that I put in north of 300 hours with friends and family doing another ~100 hours.
 
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cdnc

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Now for the cost estimate. Given the variability of labour, material and site prep costs, I thought I would summarize this on a percentage basis to give people a better sense. I would say that to effectively fully farm out the work and to use some premium supplies, it doesn't take much to get north of $100/sq foot. I think I have a few things outstanding, but this will give you a sense of the cost:

1% Design and permits
12% Site prep and site finish (excavation , backfilling with limestone screening, gravel)
3% Slab insulation and drain pipe
43% core build - framing, floors, roof, core windows
10% Upgrades - garage doors, etc
10% Electrical
18% Interior insulation and finish - no water or septic
6% Heating

Not includes - any finish in the side
 

mmavet

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Jan 9, 2016
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IOWA USA
I may have missed it....Did you put foam under the floor?
You can't go wrong with a good job at insulating any structure. You save a lot of money in the long haul. Just my 2 cents.
 
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cdnc

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I may have missed it....Did you put foam under the floor?
You can't go wrong with a good job at insulating any structure. You save a lot of money in the long haul. Just my 2 cents.

Yes, given the price of propane and temperature in my neck of the woods I have full VB and insulation under the slab. I didn't end up installing in floor radiant heat - debated long and hard, but doesn't really fit with my current use vs. cost to install and operate.

Ended up with radiation tube heat downstairs and propane wall heater upstairs
 
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cdnc

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Back again. For those that are interested, here is a video tour of the shop. Plan to also cover build timeline, cost and storage in a later video.

Enjoy
 
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