Metal building finishing/insulation

[BB16]

Hey guys, so I’m building a 30x50x12 metal building, it should be up in the next few weeks. Metal buildings are new to me but I’ve been doing a bunch of research. I’m looking for insight on guys who have done similar projects. I live in Michigan, so you know the climate. I’d like to insulate it, but I’ve heard spray foam can cause moisture issues. What should I insulate with? Also, what are you guys doing to finish the inside of the building? I’ve done so much reading but can’t seem to nail down what I’m looking for. If you have pics, post them please! Thanks!

 

[penright]

I am assuming it is on poles with girts.
Here are a few things I would do differently.
1) If you know you want some shelves, think about building some structure into the walls where you might want some. If you go through my build you can see how I am fighting it now. Especially the above bench shelf.
2) I may never get an in the floor, two, or four post lift. If it is even a remote possibility in the future, you need to handle it as you pour the slab. If you are thinking 2 or 4 post lift, the area where the post will bolt to the floor needs to be beefed up. In the case of an in the floor, just put a wooden frame say 1/2" to 3/4", kind of like an expansion joint. Put some rebar through the joint to tie it together. Then when you are ready to install the lift, just jackhammer the middle and leave the rebar to tie the walls of the lift well to the floor. Oh and plum PVC for your electrical and hydraulic lines. Now if I want one, I have to cut the floor and get the conduit in somehow. If I would have done the joint and never installed the lift, I did not waste too much.

You can look at the link in my signature line or here to see what I do like.

The builders insulated with a material squeezed when they put the walls up.
I like it, the white reflects light well. The only thing you have to be careful is getting heat and sharp objects around it. It is pretty tough stuff, when I was heating the low voltage conduit to bend it coming out of the ground I melted a spot. And swinging a long metal beam, I punctured a hole. Even at that the insulations still is good, just a blemish in the wall.

 

[cory58]

Definitely get insulated doors. Also, don't waste your money on the bubble wrap "radiant barrier" type insulation for the walls and roof. It was the only option offered by the crappy company that built my 30x50x13 metal building. It's better than nothing, but I should have passed and put the money toward better insulation.


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[BB16]

Penright - Thanks for the insight. I opted out of their “insulation” which was like $2,000. Id rather put that’s money toward my own, whichever route I take. I do want shelving. I’d like to be able to hang things. I’ve done a ton of searching but still haven’t found a great way to do so, or to finish the walls. Pick up any tricks along the way?

Cory- I passed on their “bubble wrap” insulation to put the money toward whatever I decide to go with. Do you have any interior pics of your building? Curious as to how people are hanging things, shelving, possibly finishing the walls etc. had you not went with their insulation, what route would you have taken? Doesnt seem like theres a surefire way to do the metal buildings. Almost regretting not going with a true pole barn.

 

[Walter_TA]

BB16 are you doing a red iron type build or a pole building? I have a red Iron building and I put metal sheets on the inside. They are called liner panels. That worked well. If you are building a red iron build the insulation is trapped between the outside sheet and the inside structure. That works well. spend the 2000 $. What are you going to do for electrical? Do that first then put up liner panels.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...niAhWnm-AKHRW2CZYQMwilASgCMAI&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

[BB16]

Walter, I guess you could call it a a pole style steel building. I’m not sure what I’m going to do for electric yet. I have electric already at the site due to a smaller building that has been removed. The foundation will be ready in the next 7 days, then hopefully the building will be completed in the next 4 weeks.

 

[bullnerd]

If its a pole building, I have some pics in my build in my sig showing how I did the blanket insulation, just one option.

 

[Aerospace Eng]

It’s more expensive, but you might want to look into insulated metal panels. Nice clean lilook on the inside that won’t deteriorate.

 

[BB16]

Bullnerd - it’s a metal frame building, not a true pole barn like yours. I looked at your build though and it looks great! I’m struggling to figure out the best way to insulate a metal building

 

[bullnerd]

Bullnerd - it’s a metal frame building, not a true pole barn like yours. I looked at your build though and it looks great! I’m struggling to figure out the best way to insulate a metal building

Thats cool, There is specific insulation for metal frame buildings.

Im not familiar with it, but its white, and can be left exposed.

 

[Aerospace Eng]

Most metal buildings you see have WMP-10 insulation....fiberglass with a white facing. However, I've never seen one that hasn't developed problems in 10-15 years with the insulation falling, tearing, etc.

I built two hangar buildings with WMP-10, and would never do so again, partly because of the building codes here in PA. For a heated building, the IECC 2009 energy code requires 1" foam blocks on top of the purlins to provide a thermal break between the purlins and the roof panels, because the traditional way of rolling it on top of the purlins and screwing down the roof resulted in compression of the insulation and a significant heat loss. From the top down there was the roof panel, 3" of unfaced over the purlins, blocks on the purlins, the cavity between the purlins filled with faced insulation, held up with strapping. It was a PITA.

For my 3rd building, I went with insulated metal panels both in the roof and walls. They cost more, but the labor savings was huge, with no struggling with insulation in the wind or rain. The only drawback to the IMPs was needing a suction cup device and telehandler/crane to lift them into place.

Another group that built a hangar went with spray foam, but you have to put a fire retardant over the foam even if covered. It works well enough as insulation, but looks ugly if uncovered. Also, they did it with flex conduit, which means they can't add circuits. If you are going to foam, make sure you put plenty of rigid conduit on the walls so you can pull wires later if needed.

 

[bluegoose972]

In the process of building a 30x35x12 red iron metal building right now. Opted out of the bubble insulation and have a contractor lined up to spray the inside with foam. Going with 4" of open cell foam on the walls and 2" of closed cell on the ceiling. After the insulation and electrical work is complete, the walls will be sheathed in 3/4" OSB and painted. The roll up doors will be my largest challenge as they are not insulated and are 10x10 x 2 ea.

Can't say how well it works yet, but from all the research, this is the direction I'm headed.

PS...The closed cell is running $1-$1.10 per board foot and the open cell is running about $0.30-$0.40 per board foot.

 

[BB16]

Aerospace - thanks for the input. I didn’t know that insulated metal panels existed until it was too late. I’m assuming the WMP-10 is the blanket insulation? I was looking into that as well. The more I think about it, the more I lean toward finishing it with OSB.

Bluegoose - thanks, I was looking at your build yesterday too. Spray foam was my initial plan, then I heard all these issues when applied to a metal building. I called my supplier and they said it doesn’t void their warranty. Why open cell on the walls and closed on the roof?

 

[rmack898]

I'm glad I found this thread as I have a 40x60 red iron building sitting on the ground waiting for a foundation to get done so I can start erecting the building.

I went for the 3" FG insulation which is getting delivered tomorrow. I'm still undecided on how to finish the inside walls so I will be paying close attention.

 

[rluckie]

I have a 40’x50’ red iron barndominum and I did 1” closed cell on everything. It forms a nice sealed envelope and is a vapor barrier as well. I am currently doing roxul insulation in the walls and haven’t decided if I am doing the same for roof or going to do open cell in the roof to fill in the purlin.


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[Aerospace Eng]

Aerospace - thanks for the input. I didn’t know that insulated metal panels existed until it was too late. I’m assuming the WMP-10 is the blanket insulation? I was looking into that as well. The more I think about it, the more I lean toward finishing it with OSB.

WMP-10 is the typical fiberglass faced with a white 10 mil thick layer that goes to the inside of the building.

 

[BB16]

I have a 40’x50’ red iron barndominum and I did 1” closed cell on everything. It forms a nice sealed envelope and is a vapor barrier as well. I am currently doing roxul insulation in the walls and haven’t decided if I am doing the same for roof or going to do open cell in the roof to fill in the purlin.


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Can you explain why you’re looking at open cell for the roof? Bluegoose’s response said that he was looking at the opposite, closed cell on the ceiling and open cell for the walls. What’s the reasoning for mixing it up?

 

[vrinner]

I'm in the process of getting my 40X60 red iron building up. I'm doing R30 bat lined insulation in the ceiling and R19 on the walls.

 

[bluegoose972]

I will be using 2" closed cell on the roof since it will be exposed. This should give me a good moisture seal and durability since it won't be covered up. For the walls, I'm using 4" of open cell since the walls will be covered with OSB.

Here is my logic and the economics behind it. Four inches of open cell will cost me $1.25/sf and will net me a R value of roughly 14. To get the same effect on the walls, I would need to shoot about 2.33" of closed cell, which would cost me $2.33/sf. So, I'm saving over $1/sf by going with open cell. That savings will pay for all the OSB I'm putting up, so it makes economic sense for me.

 

[bluegoose972]

Not sure that it's a good thing to mix insulation types. (Foam and Bat) Seems to be some concern that if the foam isn't thick enough then it won't act as a moisture barrier and will actually begin to sweat. The bat has a moisture barrier layer, so you end up with moisture between the foam and the bat material. And that is where you start having problem. I'm just going by information I read....my initial thoughts were to spray 1" closed foam and then just use fiberglass insulation to fill the void behind the OSB. But after seeing some negativity about it, decided against it as the temperatures can be pretty extreme in Texas.

 

[BB16]

I will be using 2" closed cell on the roof since it will be exposed. This should give me a good moisture seal and durability since it won't be covered up. For the walls, I'm using 4" of open cell since the walls will be covered with OSB.

Here is my logic and the economics behind it. Four inches of open cell will cost me $1.25/sf and will net me a R value of roughly 14. To get the same effect on the walls, I would need to shoot about 2.33" of closed cell, which would cost me $2.33/sf. So, I'm saving over $1/sf by going with open cell. That savings will pay for all the OSB I'm putting up, so it makes economic sense for me.

I follow you. I’m in Michigan so obviously we have some good swings in the weather. There’s a reputable company by me that’s going to come in and spray 1.5” of closed cell for $1 a sq/ft. I have about 3,600 sq/ft to cover. I thought it was a pretty good deal. I’m hoping 1.5” is sufficient enough to take care of any potential condensation issues. Anyone know?

I’m going to finish the walls as well. I was leaning toward OSB, but my brothers buddy finished his with an engineered wood in 4x12 sheets that came out great. Might go that route.

 

[rluckie]

Can you explain why you’re looking at open cell for the roof? Bluegoose’s response said that he was looking at the opposite, closed cell on the ceiling and open cell for the walls. What’s the reasoning for mixing it up?

The closed cell provides a moisture barrier and costs more than open cell. Since I already have my closed cell sealing up my roof I am considering using open cell to add additional insulation, which is needed, but not spend so much compared to the closed cell.


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[DaChev]

I've been researching this for a while now.

The best solution is supposed to be a layer of closed cell on all surfaces as a moisture barrier from the exterior as well as to prevent sweating of the metal.

Then cover the closed cell with open cell to add R-Value and noise insulation.

 

[breynolds]

I'm in the process of getting my 40X60 red iron building up. I'm doing R30 bat lined insulation in the ceiling and R19 on the walls.

How did you secure the insulation I’m looking to do the same in mine

 

[vrinner]

How did you secure the insulation I’m looking to do the same in mine

Sorry for the late reply...but the builder put the insulation between the rafters, gurts as well as some straps on the ceilings.

 

[My Old Tools]

Sorry for the late reply...but the builder put the insulation between the rafters, gurts as well as some straps on the ceilings.

Just like mine. Works great.