metric fastners

[magicrat]

i recently bought someone An SAE set of wrenches.....they politely asked me to exchange the gift for a metric set......And said there SAE tools are collecting dust as we speak. My question is about what year did american cars and trucks go to metric fastners??? Just wondering out of curiosity and its probably a good thing overall for everyone in the automotive trade.

 

[dadsEH]

Gm.....1990

 

[Know Wosad]

It's a good thing for US tool manufacturers.$$
Before the metric infection a huge box was one with an added 3 drawer intermediate or a side cab.Now a go-cart mechanic needs 2 stacks at minimum. Rant Over.
I said it 30 years ago but this time I'm sure.
SAE will become nearly obsolete within a decade but do NOT get rid of the tools !
SAE indicates US quality.Quality items always be around needing repair and maintainence and hard heads like me will still use that hardware on the things we build whenever possible until death do us part.

Off to build some racks @ 2.37m x 80cm with some 75 x 50 x 3.2 mm angle.
Man gotta eat !

 

[kblee27]

Recently, I found that SAE 1/2" socket fit a M8 bolt/nut better than a 13mm socket.

 

[retDAC]

GM went to mostly metric bolt heads and nuts for the '78 Model Year; thought the threads were still inch.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Metric fasteners started showing up in the Mid-70s.

 

[Adam.C]

By 2000, just about 100% of US cars were metric. There are still SAE sizes floating around out there. If you work on US cars you still need SAE, but nowhere near as often as metric.

 

[Schurkey]

the metric infection

I couldn't have said it better.

GM went to [some] metric bolt... and nuts for the '78 Model Year;

FIFY. Identified by the powder-blue color.

thought the threads were still inch.

Nope.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

SAE is pretty much already dead. I work on quite a few American cars and never need it. I bought a Gearwrench flex head SAE wrench set a few years ago thinking it might be handy to have. Well, I've never even opened it.

The only time I use SAE stuff at all is on old tractors.

 

[finn]

My 1972 Ford Pinto had a 2000 cc metric engine.

 

[Ign]

Fractional is still common in a lot of machining stuff. I doubt the Bridgeport table slot standard of 5/8 with 1/2-13 studs will go away anytime soon. 1-2-3's are still tapped 3/8-16 and my 2-4-6's are tapped 3/4-10 I believe. Drawbars are still 7/16-20 and use a 3/4" wrench.

If you use any manual lathe worth its weight you'll need a slew of fractional hex keys ('cause it'll be older American iron)

But yeah, 2000 is probably a good guess for when virtually all vehicles went metric. '80s and 90's Fords use both, with seemingly little logic - you might find the water pump to be anchored w fractional while the alternator is all metric (actually it does make a bit of sense as the block is legacy but FEAD is easier to make running changes)

 

[R. Johnson]

My 2002 Chevy 1500 is mostly metric, but I still run across SAE. Especially with the frame hardware. This is speaking for the tool size, I've never checked the threads.

 

[Handyfarmer]

I still use SAE for the majority of my work, (old farm equipment), but more and more metric ****,

I hate the mixed ****, half SAE, and half metric, or the metric with SAE heads or SAE with metric threads,

and there are times I am not sure if the **** is metric or SAE, just try to find what fits it best,

yes the metric is an infection, or disease more appropriately,

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

If all you do is work on newer cars, then likely you'll never need SAE. However, do have an older tractor, OPE, hardware around the house, etc.. still a LOT of SAE out there.

 

[M6erfan]

The need for SAE tools will be around for a long time, there's just too much hardware out there in the wild.

I have no plans to get rid of any of my SAE sockets or wrenches. That said, I've used my SAE tools about 1% of the time in the last 10 years...

 

[LXCam]

Ya I agree the conversion started in the late seventies but still hasn't taken hold 10000%. Here's a useless piece of information. The modern Hemi cars are all metric with the exception of the bell housing bolts, those are still SAE. Wtf is that about.

 

[anavrinIV]

Ya I agree the conversion started in the late seventies but still hasn't taken hold 10000%. Here's a useless piece of information. The modern Hemi cars are all metric with the exception of the bell housing bolts, those are still SAE. Wtf is that about.

That's a chrysler vehicle for you.

My 05 wrangler was the same...Engine was standard (1970s legacy AMC 4.0), suspension was mostly standard, body hardware metric, transmission a mix of hex, torx, and standard. Drivetrain was mostly metric. Working under it? Grab all the socket rails, never know what you'll come across.

As an engineer I prefer metric. It's logical and easier to follow. That said I still have little concept of what a kilometer feels like.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Gm.....1990

Some started in the late 70s. Weird back then because you had a mixture.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The need for SAE tools will be around for a long time, there's just too much hardware out there in the wild.

Not sure about farm equipment, but lawn equipment didn't start using metric until maybe 10-15 years ago.

 

[hifi_hokie]

That said I still have little concept of what a kilometer feels like.

Running taught me that.

 

[hifi_hokie]

That's a chrysler vehicle for you.

My 05 wrangler was the same...Engine was standard (1970s legacy AMC 4.0), suspension was mostly standard, body hardware metric, transmission a mix of hex, torx, and standard. Drivetrain was mostly metric. Working under it? Grab all the socket rails, never know what you'll come across.

I've actually yet to find something SAE on my '12 Wrangler. Torx is everywhere, however.

 

[fred d]

Recently, I found that SAE 1/2" socket fit a M8 bolt/nut better than a 13mm socket.

There are 2 different metrics
JIS and what is commonly know as euro

JIS is Japanese metric mainly used on cars and bikes built in Japan
Euro is used on American and German ect

JIS Threads are the same as Euro in 8mm (1.25) the head size on euro is 13mm, but JIS is a 12mm
When it comes to 10mm JIS is 1.25 and wrench size is 14mm
The euro is 1.5 thread but the wrench size can be 15mm or 17mm

 

[anavrinIV]

I've actually yet to find something SAE on my '12 Wrangler. Torx is everywhere, however.

I haven't worked on a JK so I can't speak to those, my 05 was a TJ at the end of its lifecycle...so it was designed in the early-mid '90s and had a lot of holdover from the YJs ('80s-'90s) and CJs ('70s-'80s). Working on it was always an adventure

 

[morrillm06]

GM 1978 monte carlo, also referred to as the metric chassis

 

[kblee27]

There are 2 different metrics
JIS and what is commonly know as euro

JIS is Japanese metric mainly used on cars and bikes built in Japan
Euro is used on American and German ect

JIS Threads are the same as Euro in 8mm (1.25) the head size on euro is 13mm, but JIS is a 12mm
When it comes to 10mm JIS is 1.25 and wrench size is 14mm
The euro is 1.5 thread but the wrench size can be 15mm or 17mm

I have a bunch of DIN (Euro) size m8 bolts/nuts, supposed to use 13mm socket.
But I found that 1/2" sockets has better fit.

Would you guys use a SAE drive on a metric bolt/nut, if the fit is tighter and better or vice versa ?

 

[smiffy]

If you look into it care fully bots and pieces would most likely have started just post ww2 i know this was the case for certain british manafactures as after nazi germany was dispanded there was lots of tooling in german factorys which where metric that was deemed shouldnt be left in germany and was therefore divided up between the allies
Also plans blue prints and desighns taken from germany would be in metric
It might not be in large numbers or even on products that are we known but i should think post war would of had the same effect in america as britian in introducing metric

 

[Sine Swept]

There are quite a few cars out there that use 7/16 bolt for anchoring seat belts. I am thinking of a Japanese car.

 

[anavrinIV]

There are quite a few cars out there that use 7/16 bolt for anchoring seat belts. I am thinking of a Japanese car.

That's an 11mm. The difference is so small the fasteners fit in both drive sizes. Same goes for 5/8 and 16mm, 7/8 and 22mm.

 

[Schurkey]

or the metric with SAE heads or SAE with metric threads

Photos? Application? Part number?

I don't think this exists. No standards organization would support it.

 

[plinker]

Photos? Application? Part number?

I don't think this exists. No standards organization would support it.

Mack in frame air tank band clamps are 1/4x28 on the T-bolt with a 10mm hex on the nut. found out after a 6mm nut didnt fit.

They also use 12,13 & 14 and I think even 15mm on 8mm flange bolts, depending on what part/area they are used on.

 

[GTA Matt]

The majority of engine fasteners for gm 3.8s and 4.3s were sae, all the way up until gm killed them off in the mid/late 2000's. Chrysler also had a mixture into the 2000s, Ford was mostly phased out by the late 90s. Chrysler was good for one part being held on by both types of fasteners, always makes for a fun time.

 

[dutchgray]

Photos? Application? Part number?

I don't think this exists. No standards organization would support it.

MG used some French made parts in the 1950's that were metric with English bolt heads so the mechanics wouldn't have to buy another set of tools, we hadn't really began to go metric then.

 

[80mirada]

John Deere, and General Motors have both used SAE bolts with Metric heads. I believe JD may have finally eliminated them during the xx30 programs. GM used them mostly to attach new accessories to legacy drivetrains.

 

[Flange]

MG used some French made parts in the 1950's that were metric with English bolt heads so the mechanics wouldn't have to buy another set of tools, we hadn't really began to go metric then.

This is true, so did some other UK manufacturers.

Also, as has been said earlier in this thread, SAE will always be needed if you work on old stuff.

I have 3 sets of wrenches, Metric, SAE and (because I also work on really old British stuff) Whitworth.

 

[Ign]

Photos? Application? Part number?

I don't think this exists. No standards organization would support it.

Yeah, I think someone used a 14mm on a 3/8" bolt (9/16" hex head) and figured it was metric head but fractional thread, or 13mm on 5/16" (1/2" hex head) or mixing up 5/16" and 8mm wrenches is very common

 

[speed bump]

Photos? Application? Part number?

I don't think this exists. No standards organization would support it.

Various drives accessories on GM V8 and V6s in the 90s.

When you are one of the biggest manufacturers on the planet it's amazing how little you care about standards when it suits you.

 

[Schurkey]

I'm stunned. Thanks for the tune-up.

 

[Ditchdigger]

That's an 11mm. The difference is so small the fasteners fit in both drive sizes. Same goes for 5/8 and 16mm, 7/8 and 22mm.

Nope. They are 7/16-20 as per US DOT seat belt laws. Factory parts lists for VW and BMW identify them as such. I know that privately imported European market Alfa Romeos use M12 while the US spec brethren use 7/16-20

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=742130&ukey_product=5170518

It is strange to see the parts list say 7/16X35.

 

[desertdog256]

As an engineer I prefer metric. It's logical and easier to follow. That said I still have little concept of what a kilometer feels like.

I like highway measurements in kilometers.....the "mileposts" (kilometer posts) click by almost twice as fast.

I've driven a gazillion miles in Mexico. Down there I estimated about an hour driving for every 100 kilometers of highway. Up here, I usually estimate an hour for every 60 or so miles.

 

[ttpete]

MG used some French made parts in the 1950's that were metric with English bolt heads so the mechanics wouldn't have to buy another set of tools, we hadn't really began to go metric then.

You Brits went to Unified AF in the 1960s before going metric. Those French bolts must have had Whitworth or BSF size hex heads. I owned a 1956 MGA and did my apprenticeship in an import car shop. Years later, I got involved in Brit motorcycles, and still own a few. So I have a lot of Whitworth stuff as well as most of the Triumph and BSA special tools.