Metric tools only?

[Stuart in MN]

How many times has this line been used on these forums? Can't someone come up with something new? Getting a bit stale.

I agree. As with many discussions here, the whole point of the original post was ignored and people started ranting about something different.

 

[M6erfan]

...And hey
They’re are two types of countries in the world

Those that use the metric system
And
Those that have been to the moon !

well, the Russians were the first in orbit, using the metric system

In the '40s, the Germans were the leading edge in jet turbine, pulsejet, and nuclear technology, using the metric system

So, uuummm, yeah....

 

[Nineeightyone]

I work on cars, I own VWs and a Mazda, everything 2000 or newer. Up until last week I owned exclusively metric, because that was all I ever ran into, and I didn't have money for much in the way of tools.

I now own a set of SAEtan* ratcheting wrenches, because I needed something slimmer than my adjustable to tighten air lines in the garage, and a wheel fell off of my lawnmower.

I'll probably pick up a couple small SAE sets of the basics just in case, but I can definitely get pretty far with just metric.

*SAEtan is a running joke with my best friend, who works on 80's Ford stuff, and mocks me for struggling with SAE. I find the metric system to be easier to work within, but I'm no good with fractions.

 

[Dingleburry]

Use 95% SAE. 5% Metric. Industrial mechanic. In canada...
We have about 65% SAE and 35% metric machines

 

[Gmonkee]

well, the Russians were the first in orbit, using the metric system

In the '40s, the Germans were the leading edge in jet turbine, pulsejet, and nuclear technology, using the metric system

So, uuummm, yeah....

Are you letting facts get in the way of blind patriotism?

Large scale use of steam was rolled out mainly on Whitworth.

I applaud the country with the first transatlanic dirigiable flight however. That was a real achievement.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I've seen guys on here say they really only use or have metric tools, What I'm curious about is how you deal with things that dont use metric, same with bubba'd up car repairs/aftermarket stuff. On various shop projects; do you buy metric hardware? Most metric hardware, around here anyway, is considerably more expensive then inch.

Just curious.

I have sae and metric tools and stock hoses, nuts, bolts, screws, and other hardware to cover either system.

 

[Gmonkee]

I work on cars, I own VWs and a Mazda, everything 2000 or newer. Up until last week I owned exclusively metric, because that was all I ever ran into, and I didn't have money for much in the way of tools.

I now own a set of SAEtan* ratcheting wrenches, because I needed something slimmer than my adjustable to tighten air lines in the garage, and a wheel fell off of my lawnmower.

I'll probably pick up a couple small SAE sets of the basics just in case, but I can definitely get pretty far with just metric.

*SAEtan is a running joke with my best friend, who works on 80's Ford stuff, and mocks me for struggling with SAE. I find the metric system to be easier to work within, but I'm no good with fractions.

I find a mixed set of stuff and size equivelents quite effective.
Add 1/4 - 3/8 - 9/16" to a metric set or 7-9-10-12-14-18 mm to a standard set up to 7/8 - 22mm and you're golden.

Only 15 wrenches and 21 sockets go the distance for me.

 

[Nineeightyone]

I find a mixed set of stuff and size equivelents quite effective.
Add 1/4 - 3/8 - 9/16" to a metric set or 7-9-12-14-18 mm to a standard set up to 7/8 - 22mm and you're golden.

Only 15 wrenches and 21 sockets go the distance for me.

This sounds like the smart move, especially for someone like me on a budget.

If I had known earlier (and known the conversions), I probably could've saved a fair amount of money -- with that said, I think I'll invest in a few of the aforementioned SAE wrenches and sockets, to fill out my metric.

 

[M6erfan]

Are you letting facts get in the way of blind patriotism?

'Merica!

 

[blarf]

Those that have been to the moon !

I didn't realize that Burma put someone on the moon. Maybe that's what happened to Orwell.

 

[Tom White]

'Merica!

Says the guy with a Hazet socket for his avatar.

 

[bubinga]

"No, it's intrinsic to how metric thread pitches were selected. Typical inch leadscrew (4TPI) has a simple threading dial with no settings, and worst (and very rare) case you have to wait for 16 turns off the leadscrew between passes. More typically you only have to wait for two turns, and for threads divisible by 4 you can completely ignore the threading dial and start anywhere."
thats what I like, Throwing the 1/2 nut in anywhere.....LOL But in my case its 8TPI.

 

[bubinga]

Dividing by ten is simple mater of moving a decimal point. Anything else is mental gymnastics. I grew up in the 70's and worked for international companies. I can easily work in yards and meters, inches and centimeters. thousands and millimeters. Give it some thought....

Yeah, but If I'm having any trouble with inches, I switch to thousands, And work from there.
Just what I've gotten used to.

 

[bubinga]

If I'm working on my car then it's 50/50. And if I'm building something myself then I'll usually buy SAE hardware. It's hard not to when it's 1/3-1/2 of the cost of metric and there is a much much larger selection.

My 2002 Sportster is some metric some SAE.

 

[bubinga]

Of course, we still need the mathematical concept of fractions in life, but in terms of fasteners and tools the metric system is way nicer.

I've been using metric exclusively for my DIY carpentry (and for relatives and friends) for years. It's a lot easier when measuring stuff and adding other pieces of wood to existing structures to just add whole #'s -- cm's and mm's.

again, just what you get used to.
I don't bother measuring in metric, ever.

 

[xin]

Metric it just makes sense.

 

[Low50s]

everything is being geared to metric, my work toolbox (work supplied) is full of SAE and it seems like we are always buying metric stuff to try and have it in the shop. my home toolbox is about 70/30 metric I still have SAE because I love old cars and trucks but it seems like I work on more of the new stuff

 

[Tonyuk]

Everything i use is metric.

SAE & Whitworth, forget that.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Everything i use is metric.

SAE & Whitworth, forget that.

Genuinely curious:

In the USA, tools such as pullers, ball joint presses, axle housing spreaders, air line couplers, etc are SAE sizes. Are these tools produced in metric in Europe?

 

[Tonyuk]

Genuinely curious:

In the USA, tools such as pullers, ball joint presses, axle housing spreaders, air line couplers, etc are SAE sizes. Are these tools produced in metric in Europe?

Good question, my metric spanners fit onto pullers etc.. fine although they may well be an SAE size. For air line couplers i just use an adjustable since i think they are SAE, however at work there's a contractor who comes in to service the air set-up.

 

[barrybeefburger]

Ive just moved house and re arrranging my tools, ALL my SAE is being kept but in storage, I cant remeber the last time I used any of it.

 

[bubinga]

Checked back in to see what the discussion was producing here and I was amazed at what has happened

First, anything that is threaded is a screw, bolt or nut. Wood screws are screws, hex head cap screws (what most people call 'bolts', the things that hold your cylinder heads on) are screws, bolts are bolts but still threaded and therefore screws. To find out the exact definition and see a picture of each beast, please refer to Machinery's Handbook. Most people who are not machinists or toolmakers will pass out or puke looking at all the data and definitions of each. In my 24th edition Machinery's this data comprises 196 pages, complete with footnotes referring back to various standards set by ANSI. You gotta look that up on your own.

Second, if it is a screw it is available in US/English/SAE - whatever you want to call it as well as metric. So yes Virginia, there are metric lag screws.

Related to all of these screws is a chapter specifically dedicated to various screw threads and threading: unified screw threads, metric screw threads, acme crew threads, square threads, spark plug threads, hose coupling threads, electric lamp threads, and the like. This is another 266 pages....so there are coarse, fine, and extra fine threads. The neat thing about all of this is that there are plenty of mind contorting fractions and decimals in here, which makes it extremely fun reading

In the end, it does not matter if it is SAE or metric, a screw of comparable size in either system that is made out of the same grade of steel will have equal holding power when torqued properly - end of argument over metric being better than SAE or vice versa - it just doesn't matter from the engineering end of holding something together

The only benefit of metric over standard as far as I can tell is for someone who is way way way over the top OCD worse than myself is that with metric you have nice whole numbers forged into your wrenches or sockets which looks a lot neater than those messy fractions - that is unless you need a 4.5 or 5.5 mm socket or wrench. The problem with SAE is that the fractions are not nice and neat thanks to some no grease under the fingernails, pale, i can't lift a 16 oz (0.4536 kg) hammer mathematician said that fractions need to be simplified. Personally I have no problem calling a 1/4" wrench a 4/16" wrench, but would actually prefer 8/32" as I still have some of the old x/32" wrenches and sockets, so it would just make my box look so much neater and uniform

I think we have deviated from the question which is kind of a basic beginner wrench turning question as far as what to have in your box for that first job type of thing. It all depends on what you work on. Newer and/or import cars you can probably get away with all metric, but may need to have one or two SAE wrenches or sockets for those oddball jobs. Older vehicles, trucks, farm implements, and industrial applications will require both. To be a first class mechanic, restoration expert, or customizer will require both plus a heck of a lot more.....I don't think Jay Leno is going to hire you if you show up with more than a basic set of Harbor Freight metric sockets and combination wrenches. For DIY and hobby use you will probably need both. A craftsman is capable of working in or with either system without any undue distress and is capable of using all methods of measurement, including fractions - at least that was what was taught to me in shop in school and when I got into my trade. If you could not read a tape measure or scale ('rule') there was no point in walking through the door.

Just my $0.02 on this (again)

L0L Funny How many adults cant read a ruler.
Better (metric) or not, You're (Not "you" Toolmaker65) not changing me Now, I was raised inches feet & Yard's, and fractions, and thousands, And that's How I.m gonna Stay At 62 years old.

 

[bubinga]

LOL Yeah, Machinist's call it a "scale"
And when I was a child, my Grandfather was an local #5 ELECTRICIAN, a Light bulb was "A lamp"

 

[bubinga]

Its about successful commumication of a size. Both parties need to understand the same system and know the standards are solid.

One man can nuild a boat with cubits and digits. It can be a good boat. He cannot relay the sizes to a helper to make the parts for him and know they fit perfectly.

I can build a tin box to your exact specs. If I have the object it must fit I can build it without measuring anything and knowing how many units wide or tall.

If I try to teach another how to build that same box I must be able to communicate in a known unit how big it must be.
It does not matter the name of said unit as long as it is fixed in size.

true, I'm a home woodworker, hack, L0L not too bad really, BUT if plans are in METRIC, no, they GET CONVERTED to Standard.

 

[KnurledNut]

I find a mixed set of stuff and size equivelents quite effective.
Add 1/4 - 3/8 - 9/16" to a metric set or 7-9-10-12-14-18 mm to a standard set up to 7/8 - 22mm and you're golden.

Only 15 wrenches and 21 sockets go the distance for me.

Using 1/2 for 13mm doesnt always work.

 

[bubinga]

I find a mixed set of stuff and size equivelents quite effective.
Add 1/4 - 3/8 - 9/16" to a metric set or 7-9-10-12-14-18 mm to a standard set up to 7/8 - 22mm and you're golden.

Only 15 wrenches and 21 sockets go the distance for me.

SO True.
KNOW IT all welder had no work at THE LAST JOB, FOREMAN TELLS HIM TO HELP ME.
Asks FOR a 7/16" Socket, gave him AN 11 mM.(didn't Have sae Set Anymore)

he gets ALL pissed OFF, AND Says He Wants aN 7/16.
i TOD him to stfu IT Was Gd. Stubborn *** gets Down off The machine And goes And Borrow's A 7/16.......L0L
what Is it, something Like .011 Difference. SorRY cRaZy KEyBoArd tIRD 0F fIxInG ThE tExT.................nO, .0045 darn NeAr

 

[bubinga]

Says the guy with a Hazet socket for his avatar.

LMA0

 

[Y00PER]

What about tires? 16-225R60. That's a 16" rim with a 225mm wide tread a 60% aspect ratio (technically a dimensionless number). Funny thing. When I was in Japan 20 years back they advertised their TVs in inches even though the entire add would be in Japanese. I believe I noted they also used that hybrid inch-metric tire sizing.

I still don't understand how someone came up with that system. If I have 31x10.5x15 tires on my truck, I can get 16 or 17 rims, and put 31x10.5 tires on them and they will fit. if I have 265/75R15 tires, 265/75's on 16 or 17" rims might not fit.

Also the fuel economy confuses me, you would think the conversion from MPG to metric would be KPL (Kilometers per Liter), but it's not. It's something weird like Liters per 100 Kilometers..... what??

 

[bubinga]

Metric it just makes sense.

L0L tO sOMe, depenDs wHAt You Grew up with, and upon your age.

 

[Erampu]

Look at my avatar. I use SAE and metric.

 

[bubinga]

If all you can give your wife is one third of what she wants, I feel for you.....

.333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
OF AMOUNT Of Shoes Maybe.

L0L............I was on a free dating site for A while, .........
profile stated something like,
"SOMEONE WHO WON'T BUST MY STONES FOR BUYING TOOLS!
you can Buy all the shoes you want, and I will buy all the tools I want"..............LMA0..............

 

[bubinga]

And workin on mid 80s to mid 90s vehicle requires both

Some bolts are sae
Some bolt are metric

Toyota’s are easy everyhing is 8-10-12 mm

V Ws are bizarre
Every size mm you can think of

And I'm born in 1955, started wrenching out of High school.
Remember the mechanic that worked on rebuilding transmissions at The Transmission shop Part time on Saturdays, (He worked at a Ford dealership full time.) Nice Guy, Good Tech BTY
I can remember him Bitching "Metric!" as he dug through the owners tool box's. Was In about 1979. LMA0

 

[bubinga]

coulda, woulda, shoulda been 10mm. Long live col. Cooper.

These threads are fascinating to me for a bunch of reasons...

1. Sae tools are available everywhere used for cheap, i'm working on collecting all the weird dead x/32" stuff and have sae basics to last my lifetime, bought new, cheap.

2. Everything attached to your house is probably sae, like your plumbing.

3. My project hardware is all sae. Mind blown by 2ndgearrubber's metric project hardware! If anyone knows where to find stainless coarse- thread metric wood screws, let me know... I'm short some screws for my tacoma. I don't think i've ever seen a metric lag bolt either...

4. 12 is divisible by more numbers than 10, helping with layout. Chris schwartz has written a fair bit about it. For simple layout work, apparently, inches are better.

5. The us never really switched to metric... Nor liberia, nor myanmar... Not sure if that's good company or not!

6. My very limited "mechanic" experience was working on old ih farm stuff (all basic sae stuff) and 1970's trucks - all sae.

7. this is gj. You shouldn't quit until you've got all the dead x/32", whitworth, pre- war uss, and any other weird size you can find!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



i can finally consistently remember how this works, and it's frankly just nuts. I should look into how europeans size tires, 'cause it can't possibly be so weird.
Jr

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
lma0

 

[bubinga]

Any true mechanic will have both sets.

A guy came to me today with a 2000 ford f150 that had cracked exhaust manifolds. I busted out the metric set and prepared to go at it. The very first thing I removed after the metric lugnuts was the plastic fenderwell which was 1/4. See what I mean ? Second step in. The rest of the repair was mainly metric with a few SAE.

Can you fix an exhaust system replaced by an exhaust shop without SAE ? Usually not.

Would you go to any shop that told you they could fix your problem because they didn't have a 1/2 wrench?

I've done old vehicles using metric and new vehicles only a year or two old using SAE.

The very first tools any mechanic buys is a complete set of SAE and metric sockets in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 without exception.

Spend the 200 bux, anything less makes you NOT a mechanic.

The only real exception to this rule might be something similar to an assembly line. I don't consider those mechanics.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

Well Said,, (and On Topic, for the one's that don't like going off topic)

 

[bubinga]

It's still about 50/50 for me.

Me too, But I own a lot of older machines. Logan Lathe, Oliver wood lathe,
Delta bandsaws, delta Jointer, Unisaw, Older craftsman sanders, etc.
All SAE.

 

[bubinga]

I'm the same with project hardware, but when I'm buying nuts and bolts and washers for misc. stuff it's SAE - butter, 5, and 8 are readily available from a locally- owned place I like. It's just what I'm accustomed to. I can totally see where you're coming from - my only experience with metric hardware is maintenance on a few Japanese- brand vehicles, thankfully not a daily exposure in my case.

I should say I'm not even aware of metric coarse thread screws exactly, just that I pulled one of the grimy slightly rusted kickplate screws off my 99 Tacoma, tried to find a stainless screw to match at the local awesome hardware store, and failed - it wasn't a a normal- size, commonly available screw- between 8 and 10 root diameter IIRC. I'll pull another tomorrow to verify. I recall looking for another screw (door latch) for the same rig with similar confusing results. Those particular screws got jacked, along with some other futzy interior door hardware that's harder to replace. Currently rocking a vise grip window crank...

Don't keep parking quarters in old Altoids tins if you also keep Toyota hardware in Altoids tins, meth addicts will take all your tins... I guess it all sounds the same when you shake the tin!

Lolz at AMC hardware, I've always wanted a 4wd AMC Eagle, manual, despite its flaws. Had an old J20 once upon a time...

JR

You guys need SAE tools just to have something to fill the space in those mega expensive truck brand tool boxes you have.

Good question, my metric spanners fit onto pullers etc.. fine although they may well be an SAE size. For air line couplers i just use an adjustable since i think they are SAE, however at work there's a contractor who comes in to service the air set-up.

Well Look how many Lug nuts interchange. 3/4" 19mm 13/16 19 mm, Etc.
Again, brings to mind another story regarding the Know it all welder,
I was helping him Hang calipers and Pads on his late Model Ford truck.
Go to get My 24mm, he insists its SAE. I stated" They don't use SAE too much on Lug Nuts" He gets all Pissed off at Me, and was ready to "send me home" (I should of went home) But He helped me out a Lot too.
Cause he had a Pick Up.........This was Long Before I had my little trailer.
(Best thing I ever brought)
Funny Thing though, The SAE actually fit better, and I admitted it)

 

[Tonyuk]

If you want to be really pissed off work on an older landrover.

You'll need sockets & spanners in metric, sae and whitworth for even repetitively basic tasks.

Hex keys in metric and sae

Hateful things.

 

[Tom White]

Look at my avatar. I use SAE and metric.

Regardless of what you use, that truck is just plain COOL!

 

[Gmonkee]

Its not about which standard is superior. Its all about getting the damn job done and correctly.
I use what fits best with few worries if its SAE or cubits. No damaged fasteners its all good.

I do have full sets of number, USS, SAE, Whit and metrics. Only short BA to have all well used standards in my stocks.

Of hundreds of wrenches available to me daily only 15 need be present to do my job.

 

[ed_v]

I really don't want to hear all the young hipster talk about how we need to convert to metric only here in the U.S., it's not gonna happen!


I have a variety of stuff I work on. I need both.