Micrometers

[JayL]

Micrometers - Jap Engines Rebuilding Task

What kind, sizes & brand of Micrometers do you use for engine rebuilding?

Which ones do you prefer for professional or commercial duty use?

Thanks a lot in advance for your replies.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

I don't do engine rebuilding but when I'm working in our machine shop I use .0001 reading Mitutoyo micrometers with carbide faces in 0-1, 1-2, 2-3 and have an assortment of Brown & Sharpe, and Starrett in sizes to measure up to 6".

The link below shows a current Micrometer that is close in style to the ones I use. Mine are all older and with the exception of an 0-1" were all bought used for ~$20 each.

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-103-260-99-
Micrometer-Hard-Reach/dp/B001OBTI3Y/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3

I have also used the Mitutoyo Digimatic micrometers and they're awesome if you need to do lots of incremental measuring but they're bulky and for the work I do it's just as easy to measure and do the math on paper.

Erik

 

[JayL]

Last month and a half I had the chance to purchase this NSK set for $60. I got busy that time and I was not able to buy and it was sold to somebody else. Now I know I'll have to spend a great deal more to meet the current needs.

The Micrometers I would be getting would to be used for Japanese car engine rebuilding (daily drivers ). The above set has 4 sizes but would all these be needed for the task. The tech who will be using the micrometers is a good lad and knows how use and take care of tools. Planning to give him a tool he could trust. None the less it should also be something that will not cost an arm and a leg.

Is there good merit to spend a bit more and get the ones with digital readouts. I heard the Mitutoyos are good and have solvent / oil resistant models.

 

[spv]

Personally I think that you can get away rebuilding on the 0-4 mics, dial bore, dial gauge with stand and verniers. I recently purchased all Mitutoyo items in the digital variety. I have not looked back. Fantastic quality.

 

[JayL]

Dial Gauge we have already. An older model Snap On PMF136 but quite reliable.

Verniers we have a digital Wixey but could get a better one if it is needed.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

You don't need to spend much on Micrometers. Good used ones can usually be picked up for a song online as many people are making the transition to digital reading tools.

NSK (IMO) isn't really anything special as far as quality goes so I don't think you missed out on too much.

Really, you don't need to spend much to get a set of accurate Micrometers, my little brother has one of the $9.99 or $19.99 China Micrometers and once properly adjusted it reads the same as any of mine, it's as much about technique and getting a feel for the tool than the amount of money spent on the tool, if you don't have good feel for how loose or how tight it needs to be when making a measurement you'll never get accuracy regardless of how much you spend.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

Starrett. Period.

 

[Ign]

Re: Micrometers - Jap Engines Rebuilding Task

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63802

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15226

 

[Steve_P]

I have a .0001" graduation 0-6" set I bought from Enco 15 yrs ago. IIRC it was ~$120 at the time and they are probably cheaper now. I checked them on certified Mitutoyo gage blocks at work and they were dead on. I've seen these same micrometers in plenty of machine shops. Problem is that since they are not branded who knows if the ones you buy now are as good, but I would not dismiss them w/o checking them out.

If you are a pro machinist then I can see spending the $ on Mitutoyo, etc.

 

[Packard V8]

suggest a search. this has been covered in detail a couple of times.

jack vines

 

[mrholeshot]

I use Starrett but for rice burners a yardstick is close enough, J/K. I use the Starrett but the NSK would be fine.

 

[larry_g]

Last month and a half I had the chance to purchase this NSK set for $60. I got busy that time and I was not able to buy and it was sold to somebody else. Now I know I'll have to spend a great deal more to meet the current needs.

The Micrometers I would be getting would to be used for Japanese car engine rebuilding. The above set has 4 sizes but would all these be needed for the task. The tech who will be using the micrometers is a good lad and knows how use and take care of tools. Planning to give him a tool he could trust. None the less it should also be something that will not cost an arm and a leg.

Is there good merit to spend a bit more and get the ones with digital readouts. I heard the Mitutoyos are good and have solvent / oil resistant models.

Jay
I would have to ask if you are doing the machining in your shop, or are you using the mics to check the work of others? Reason is that if your the machinest then the quality tool will be called for, if your the mechanic that is checking parts before assembly then you can probably get away with a lesser tolerance. The machinest will need a tool repeatable to .0001" wereas a mechanic can get by with a .001".

That said the Mitutoyos are good as well as many others. Do you have B&S or Starrett in your country?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[MattT]

I checked them on certified Mitutoyo gage blocks at work and they were dead on.

That's the thing with buying off brand new or anything used. If you don't have the gage blocks to check 'em you can't trust 'em. Failing calibration is one reason mic's hit the used market.

 

[JayL]

@larry_g

The micrometers will be used by a mechanic. Mitutoyos and Starretts are available.

However I need to know which to provide. 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4" ( @.001" ) or do I need to get all.

Please bear with me as I m not a pro mechanic myself. Just want to make sure I get the right tool/s no more no less for this task.

Thanks

By the way we currently farm out engine rebuilds but would like to slowly put up in house capabilities now short of doing any machining work ourselves.

 

[MattT]

However I need to know which to provide. 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4" ( @.001" ) or do I need to get all.

For Jap motors you might be better off with metric depending on what you're doing. For just measuring I'd go metric. For machining metric on machine tools with inch dials I prefer inch mic's.

To figure out which sizes you need look in the manuals for the vehicles you'll be working on and see what diameter the parts are. There should also be tolerances in there which'll give you an idea whether you need .001" or .0001" resolution.

 

[MrMark]

I don't do engine rebuilding but when I'm working in our machine shop I use .0001 reading Mitutoyo micrometers with carbide faces in 0-1, 1-2, 2-3 and have an assortment of Brown & Sharpe, and Starrett in sizes to measure up to 6".

The link below shows a current Micrometer that is close in style to the ones I use. Mine are all older and with the exception of an 0-1" were all bought used for ~$20 each.

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-103-260-99-
Micrometer-Hard-Reach/dp/B001OBTI3Y/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3

I have also used the Mitutoyo Digimatic micrometers and they're awesome if you need to do lots of incremental measuring but they're bulky and for the work I do it's just as easy to measure and do the math on paper.

Erik

What is the last knurled knob on the end for?

I ask because I have a rotor micrometer that has the same knurled knob on the end and the knob just spins. It doesn't seem to do anything. There is a set screw on the end that you can take out and the knob comes off. There is a coil spring that has a finger that goes into a slot cut in the knob so the knob captures the spring. The spring just spins around on the shaft though, so I am wondering if the spring is broken?

 

[red69ss]

What is the last knurled knob on the end for?

I ask because I have a rotor micrometer that has the same knurled knob on the end and the knob just spins. It doesn't seem to do anything. There is a set screw on the end that you can take out and the knob comes off. There is a coil spring that has a finger that goes into a slot cut in the knob so the knob captures the spring. The spring just spins around on the shaft though, so I am wondering if the spring is broken?

It's a ratchet stop, its suppose to keep you from over tightening with the thimble, I guess its acts as a clutch kinda. sounds like yours might be broke.
I don't use them, but it would deffinently keep a novice from breaking thier mics.

 

[MattT]

What is the last knurled knob on the end for?

It should have a click "ratchet" action that clicks when you're tightening (CW) and locks CCW. It's designed to give consistent tightening torque so you get accurate readings.

Sounds like yours is missing it's pawl. It's been a while since I had one apart so my memory of exactly what's inside is a little foggy.

 

[MrMark]

is it supposed to 'click' or just spring back?

 

[larry_g]

@larry_g

The micrometers will be used by a mechanic. Mitutoyos and Starretts are available.

However I need to know which to provide. 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4" ( @.001" ) or do I need to get all.

QUOTE]

You will have to be measuring piston sizes so your largest piston sizes will determine your largest sizes. If your doing truck work then maybe up to 6". As others have said you may want to have metric reading mics if that is what your working with. If your mechanic is the main user of the measuring device then it will mostly be for checking if the part is correct or way out of spec. Auto parts come in standard sizes and mostly he will be checking if you have the right part and the next size part will be enough difference in size that a .001" mic will determine that it is not the correct replacement part. If your checking parts for wear to determine if they need replacement or rebuilding then you may need to step up to the .0001" resolution.


If you are outside the normal repair stuff and getting into high end work then you have to step up to the level of work your doing. Have you asked your mechanic what he needs? Might be revealing of his skill level. If he can explain to you why he needs a $100 mic vs a $10 mic then maybe he is the one to listen to if he has the skills and knowhow to make the difference worth it.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Ign]

For Jap motors you might be better off with metric depending on what you're doing. For just measuring I'd go metric. For machining metric on machine tools with inch dials I prefer inch mic's.

A strong argument for digital. Toggle back and forth as needed at the push of a button.

 

[JayL]

The request that was given to me was for a set of Metric micrometers 0 ~ 4". No brand was given though.

"If your checking parts for wear to determine if they need replacement or rebuilding then you may need to step up to the .0001" resolution." larry_g

Can we get away with .001" resolution for this task above?

Thanks

 

[bamatj]

Most mics have .0001 resolution, though not all. You could go with .001 resolution probably because you should still be able to get within .0005 with them if you know what your doing. I would go with .0001 myself, since they would only be slightly higher in price. I would go for Mitutoyo, I use them daily. No need for digital.

 

[srmofo]

I use a

-dial gauge w/ mag base for checking crank thrust
-feeler gauges for valve lash and piston ring gap
-Bore gauge for cylinders obviously
-----You'll need a caliper to set the bore gauge
-plastigauge for bearing clearance along with math to double check accuracy of plasti
-Vernier for misc things
-good torque wrench
-straight edge is helpful but not necessary if the block and head are going to the machine shop


What kind of engine cause the list can go on and on

IMO the weekend warrior can get away with central brand. I like their stuff and the measurements always match my mitutoyo calipers. Technique and consistency are important, but surprisingly so does my $7 HF digital vernier, I just dont trust it for important or expensive things.

 

[JayL]

Thanks again for the replies. The mics will be used in a commercial shop so another important aspect for me is the durability factor.

Lots of Chicom knock offs (generics) available here with us with prices substantially better than in the US. Seems accurate too until these are dropped on the table accidentally or what not.

Will the 0-1" size be the most used one?

 

[MattT]

Will the 0-1" size be the most used one?

Probably the least used one. Wrist pins are the only thing I can think of under an inch that you'll need micrometer accuracy rebuilding motors. That's if you even bother measuring them. They're cheap and if they look worn replace 'em.

 

[JayL]

Probably the least used one. Wrist pins are the only thing I can think of under an inch that you'll need micrometer accuracy rebuilding motors. That's if you even bother measuring them. They're cheap and if they look worn replace 'em.

I was contemplating to purchase the better mics for the most used sizes and the cheaper ones for those used occasionally.

How about sizes 1-2" , 2-3" and 3-4", 4-5"?

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mrholeshot]

If your builder needs you to buy micrometers you have te wrong guy building your engine. Active engine builders have their one quality tools.

 

[JayL]

If your builder needs you to buy micrometers you have te wrong guy building your engine. Active engine builders have their one quality tools.

We're providing all the tools & shop space. Hiring techs on monthly pay + commissions. It's the way things work out here.

 

[mrholeshot]

We're providing all the tools & shop space. Hiring techs on monthly pay + commissions. It's the way things work out here.

Sorry I was under the impression you had some guy to build you an engine and you needed to buy him tools. If you are going to be building engines for a living buy the best. Keep them under lock and key

 

[srmofo]

Always be sure to participate and share our knowledge instead of just generating unnecessary messages simply get a link through our sigs. That is why many webmasters and new website / blog V7N particular because in addition to learning new techniques published here, you get a link to your website.

I cant tell, Is this guy a spammer? 6 posts and a link to womens boots

 

[Gtamazing]

Starrett. Period.

Nail on the Head. But mitutoyo are just as good. Thats all I own as well as all shop owned mics up 50"

 

[Stick Figure]

Let's make this easy. How much will it cost you to buy a new motor of the typical vehicle you work on? Because he wrong measurements could worse case cost you an engine. Add that to the cost of he cheap mics you would be replacing. Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown and Sharpe, etc should seem cheap at this point.

 

[mark40sw]

http://longislandindicator.com/p29.html
good micrometer info here-

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

Nail on the Head. But mitutoyo are just as good. Thats all I own as well as all shop owned mics up 50"

Mitutoyo don't hold a candle to Starrett. But if that's what you can afford then that's what you have to go with.

 

[oldtools]

I have a mechanic friend that work for Boeing. He said they used alot of Mitutoyo.

Starrett is more of a middle of the pack.

 

[Monte]

 

[JayL]

Sorry I was under the impression you had some guy to build you an engine and you needed to buy him tools. If you are going to be building engines for a living buy the best. Keep them under lock and key

No need for the apology sir. Your post was right on the money. We could lose more than we can make if I'm not careful. It could be something like a part still needed to be sent to the machine shop when job quotations are out already and approved or worst yet an expensive back job. Initially we will have one guy for this rebuilding 5 engines a month and probably some surplus engines ( for resale / swap ) when work load is light. Sometimes jobs can be top engine only instead of full rebuilds.

If the business grows good then we'll add more techs as needed. Hopefully by that time I'll be able to afford mics for their own use only and have them be individually responsible for these and as well as the job results.

As a master engine re builder yourself your posts are valued highly.

 

[JayL]

For now we can do top overhauling. Nothing special just daily Japanese driver cars. We'd like to take it to the next level and do full engine rebuilding and hopefully specialize to be able to compete with the bigger shops (considering we have lower overhead cost). There's a good market for vehicles damaged due to broken timing belts, overheating, low oil level caused problems etc.. A more lucrative market also exists covering European cars but is the realm of the bigger players here.

I'd be purchasing some more Hayne's Repair Manuals to cover the engines we'll be working on.

Honda CRV

Valve Seals needs replacement / valves seats need grinding

Replaced Water Pump

Replaced Oil Seals ( camshafts and crankshaft )

Replaced Cylinder Head Gasket

Replaced Timing Belt

I still need to equip the shop with new work tables and need to decide too which is best for things like use I-Beam with Hoist or Cherry pickers and other stuff. At the moment I just want to be able to know the best options on the special hand tools needed to do the full rebuilding jobs, Best bang for the buck tools as we can't really afford the top ends now except probably used ones.

Thank you very much to all for your insights.

 

[JayL]

Is a micrometer with a lock necessary or essential for engine rebuilding use?

tks