Mill drill lathe combo
- Thread starter gapfast
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E.Marquez
Well-known member
Yes, very useful.....
I've had a Smithy 1220LTD for a few years now..
And used it with great success from modifying parts to creating them from stock.
Keep in mind, the machine buy in is just the start, and a 1/3 or less of what you will spend after just a few years collecting tooling, fixtures, work holding stuff.
My buy in 3 years ago was $900 on a one owner 2 year old used machine... I have three times that in tooling and accessory's.
There are better Chinese 3-1 and crappy ones.. Im a believer in the Smithy brand. I have also seen over the last few years, the smaller, less optioned Chinese 3-1's really lack capacity and ability.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smithy-machines/
is a Yahoo group for Smithy. The guy who runs it is a old school machinist as well as knowing the Smithy well.
The 3-1 in your pic is a very small, limited use machine.
No power feed.
Very small capacity.
Less ridged capabilities.
It is not something I would buy after learning what i have.
Many will say the Chinese 3-1 are junk, and do not waste your money on them.. And that's correct if you have a HAAS 5 axis to use at work, or a bridgeport at home.
But don't let anyone tell you, you can not use a better Chinese 3-1 mill/lathe/ drill to do nice work....No it will never be Aerospace quality... held to .00001 tolerances. But they do a fine job with good tooling, ridged set ups and some hands on experience.
I've had a Smithy 1220LTD for a few years now..
And used it with great success from modifying parts to creating them from stock.
Keep in mind, the machine buy in is just the start, and a 1/3 or less of what you will spend after just a few years collecting tooling, fixtures, work holding stuff.
My buy in 3 years ago was $900 on a one owner 2 year old used machine... I have three times that in tooling and accessory's.
There are better Chinese 3-1 and crappy ones.. Im a believer in the Smithy brand. I have also seen over the last few years, the smaller, less optioned Chinese 3-1's really lack capacity and ability.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smithy-machines/
is a Yahoo group for Smithy. The guy who runs it is a old school machinist as well as knowing the Smithy well.
The 3-1 in your pic is a very small, limited use machine.
No power feed.
Very small capacity.
Less ridged capabilities.
It is not something I would buy after learning what i have.
Many will say the Chinese 3-1 are junk, and do not waste your money on them.. And that's correct if you have a HAAS 5 axis to use at work, or a bridgeport at home.
But don't let anyone tell you, you can not use a better Chinese 3-1 mill/lathe/ drill to do nice work....No it will never be Aerospace quality... held to .00001 tolerances. But they do a fine job with good tooling, ridged set ups and some hands on experience.
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zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Hard to tell from the picture but it looks like a Shopsmith brand combo. I had a friend who had one and built many of projects with it.
I have a Smithy mill/lathe 1239 combo but it is the larger version, 39" between headstock and tailstock as well as a little more swing on the mill head. I have had it for about 16 years now and has worked great for me.
I don't machine everyday on a production basis and for that I don't think you would be happy with it. For my purposes fabricating many small one off custom parts for motorcycles, ATVs, sandrails and Jeeps it works fantastic. It is one of those tools that I don't use every day but when I do need it, it is worth it's weight in gold.
I know you will get a lot of people knocking the combo machines. I couldn't really afford money wise nor room wise for a stand alone Bridgeport style mill or full size lathe, although I would rather have them, but for the money and the smaller footprint that it takes up in my shop overall I have been very happy with it's performance.
Keep in mind that you will easily spend more money in tooling than the machine itself so plan ahead.
I have some pictures of my little Smithy in my shop thread in my signature if you want to see some pictures of my setup.
Mike.
I have a Smithy mill/lathe 1239 combo but it is the larger version, 39" between headstock and tailstock as well as a little more swing on the mill head. I have had it for about 16 years now and has worked great for me.
I don't machine everyday on a production basis and for that I don't think you would be happy with it. For my purposes fabricating many small one off custom parts for motorcycles, ATVs, sandrails and Jeeps it works fantastic. It is one of those tools that I don't use every day but when I do need it, it is worth it's weight in gold.
I know you will get a lot of people knocking the combo machines. I couldn't really afford money wise nor room wise for a stand alone Bridgeport style mill or full size lathe, although I would rather have them, but for the money and the smaller footprint that it takes up in my shop overall I have been very happy with it's performance.
Keep in mind that you will easily spend more money in tooling than the machine itself so plan ahead.
I have some pictures of my little Smithy in my shop thread in my signature if you want to see some pictures of my setup.
Mike.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
To echo what bronco78 said, setup and holding practices will be key. I have fabricated some additional dial indicator holders to use while machining as the denominations on the dial are not as accurate as you would think. Holding the parts securely and using accurate dial indicators to work with will yield a much higher degree of accuracy.
Mike.
Mike.
spongerich
Well-known member
If you respect the limits and can live with a few thousandths tolerance, they're OK for home shop use. The bed on that one does look especially short though.
E.Marquez
Well-known member
Agree.... well mostly.
I have cut parts on the lathe and mill parts to within .001- .002 tolerance.
Yes it takes extra time to be that precise on a small home use machine. And you will screw it up several times while learning your machine.
But it is very doable.
I just made a bushing yesterday from tool steel, to be pressed fit on a steel shaft.
cut on the Lathe, boring bar head in the mil, faced on the lathe.
.
Finial tolerance is .0015 interference fit, heated the bushing, cooled the shaft, pressed on with some stud and bearing mount from Loctite.
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APEowner
Well-known member
One thing that a relatively lightweight machine like that will do is teach you how to select and sharpen tooling and use correct feeds and speeds.
Big-Foot
Well-known member
I have a combination unit and it has worked well for me. They come from the factory a little on the loose side and in some areas they need to be tuned up. Rigidity is not their strong suit so go slow if working steel.
Not for production line processing but works well for small bacth or one-off simple parts..
Not for production line processing but works well for small bacth or one-off simple parts..
kmacht
Well-known member
I'm surprised that the 3 in 1's are getting good reviews here. I had one and hated it. It was a great lathe but an absolutely horrible mill. The mill head was not very rigid causing all sorts of chatter when cutting parts. It also had very litte room between the milling spindle and the table where you clamped your part. You could not put a drill chuck and a normal size drill in the thing and drill a part that was more than an inch or two tall. There just wasn't enough room. I would suggest getting a seperate mill and lathe. $850 is also high price. You can get them new for not much more. I typically see them going around here for $300 to $500.
Keith
Keith
ilovevocs
Well-known member
I have a hf44142. I paid like $900 for it new. I bought it on sale with a 20% off coupon...i must have caught the manager on a good day. It was an OK machine to learn on and i have completed allot of projects on it. I will likely never sell it. Im ready to upgrade to seperates at this point. I was hesitant to buy used as I knew very little about them, having no practicle experince with machine tools at the time. Yes it is kind of a turd, but it has forfilled my needs for an entry level machine in a compact package with minimal power requirements. That said, having the understanding of machine tools that i presently have i would not choose to buy a 3 in 1 unless spacial constraints were the dictating factor. Its a PITA to remove the vise or tool post every time you change operations, setup def. becomes more of a hastle for each operation.
E.Marquez
Well-known member
And I would guess you had one of the limited brands/ designs I spoke of up above.
I can take a 2" wide .005 cut in 304 stainless steel using a Glacern FM45 2" face mil without chatter.
Set up and the correct tool is what makes it work.
And with a better 3-1, the mil head is movable, off line and in Z axis.
If anything, the issue is raising a small part UP to reach an end mill in a collet while not extending the quill down (for best rigidity)
Other then the Smithy brand, I have not seen good reviews for the chinese 3-1 machines... So I do understand the bashing... just not found it to be true for the machine i use a lot, and many others with like machines.
It's not a Bridgeport for sure, and I'd love to still have access to the HAAS CNC I did... But the Smithy 3-1's do work well enough for a home shop.
Honestly for $850, I would be looking at something else. Yes they are capable when used within their limited capacities, but so limited compared to other machines. I can't imagine making motorcycle parts on it. Model engine parts, yes, but not motorcycle parts.
I have always said that a 3 in 1 is bad at three things, milling, turning and drilling. For $850 it better come with a lot of tooling. If you raised your budget to ~$1200 you could most likely find a nice older bridgeport m head or a more robust table mill that would be light years ahead of that 3 in one. I saw where a guy converted a table top mill to CNC and used it to make really nice triple clamps, rather commercially I might add.
What do you have now, a lathe, drill press?
Hard to see in the pics, but I just want to mention. Never try to hold a end mill in a drill chuck.
I have always said that a 3 in 1 is bad at three things, milling, turning and drilling. For $850 it better come with a lot of tooling. If you raised your budget to ~$1200 you could most likely find a nice older bridgeport m head or a more robust table mill that would be light years ahead of that 3 in one. I saw where a guy converted a table top mill to CNC and used it to make really nice triple clamps, rather commercially I might add.
What do you have now, a lathe, drill press?
Hard to see in the pics, but I just want to mention. Never try to hold a end mill in a drill chuck.
willymakeit
Well-known member
If I couldnt find a Smithy, is the Grizzly priced at about 2000.00 ok?
I was always told the chucks were the weak link,dont know , just asking.
I was always told the chucks were the weak link,dont know , just asking.
moonpool145
Well-known member
Try the shoptask. I had one of the older Patriots and once dialed in it was a decent little machine. I am going to be ordering one of their new VFD units this spring. Never tried the Smithy but it is a solid unit
Thanks guys for all the tips. Looks like a no brainer pass on this one. Ill keep looking.
I have nothing worth mentioning. This will be my first shot at machining. That's why the 3-1 was appealing.
I have nothing worth mentioning. This will be my first shot at machining. That's why the 3-1 was appealing.
I was wondering the same thing
That looks like the harbor freight 3-in-1. I have one. Paid a LOT less than $850 for it, well used, a couple of years ago. So my first thought is that its overpriced.
As others have said, its a limited use machine. I make bushings, spacers and shift knobs on mine, in the lathe configuration. It doesn't have power feed so you can't cut threads. As a mill, the head comes down but the table does not go up, so for smaller parts you sometimes cannot reach the work. You'll need to make a spacer block to bring the vise up to the milling head. The third function is as a drill press - same problems as the mill.
If you're considering spending "real money" on equipment, I'd pass on the HF 3-in-1; you can do better particularly with two separate machines.
As others have said, its a limited use machine. I make bushings, spacers and shift knobs on mine, in the lathe configuration. It doesn't have power feed so you can't cut threads. As a mill, the head comes down but the table does not go up, so for smaller parts you sometimes cannot reach the work. You'll need to make a spacer block to bring the vise up to the milling head. The third function is as a drill press - same problems as the mill.
If you're considering spending "real money" on equipment, I'd pass on the HF 3-in-1; you can do better particularly with two separate machines.
Prototyper
Well-known member
$850 does sound very high, unless very well tooled.
I would definitely vote for separate machines. You will already be making compromises in terms of capability and accuracy, when buying a home shop sized machine. No sense in further compromising by combining them!
If precision metal cutting is your goal, do yourself the greatest favor, and find a way to get a Bridgeport (or a clone) in your shop. I had one and loved it, but sold it to buy a used HAAS CNC mill. I love CNC, and wouldn't be without it, but I miss the B'port every day!
Separate machines are like a boat and a truck to tow it with, or you could have an amphibious car...
I would definitely vote for separate machines. You will already be making compromises in terms of capability and accuracy, when buying a home shop sized machine. No sense in further compromising by combining them!
If precision metal cutting is your goal, do yourself the greatest favor, and find a way to get a Bridgeport (or a clone) in your shop. I had one and loved it, but sold it to buy a used HAAS CNC mill. I love CNC, and wouldn't be without it, but I miss the B'port every day!
Separate machines are like a boat and a truck to tow it with, or you could have an amphibious car...
justanengineer
Well-known member
Ive been playing around with machine tools since elementary school, and frankly I couldnt think of a more frustrating way to try and learn their operation.
Not sure your determination level, finances, or location, but I have less than $850 total in the Bridgeport, the Clausing lathe, and the lil Atlas shaper....tooling, fuel/transportation costs, cleaning supplies, and the value of my time excluded of course.
Just my $0.02.
Not sure your determination level, finances, or location, but I have less than $850 total in the Bridgeport, the Clausing lathe, and the lil Atlas shaper....tooling, fuel/transportation costs, cleaning supplies, and the value of my time excluded of course.
Just my $0.02.
riceburner
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2007
- Messages
- 31
If you have the room get a couple of stand alone machines, a used logan lathe and a good knock off mill verticle 9 x 42 or so should be easy to find.
We had of those at school. Actually ended up using it a fair amount. We made a ton of spacers, bushings, and adapters out of derlin (plastic) on it. That being said it was frustrating as hell to set up for anything bigger then 1" and it didn't like cutting steel at all. For $300 I would still jump on it. In my situation I don't have room for anything bigger. For $800 I would move along smartly.
R6 Racer
Well-known member
I have heard a few " pass on that one"s. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good quality 3 in 1? I see Smitty talked about, what's a good model (Smitty or other) that can be used in a home shop? One that's good to learn on & enough machine to make 4x4 truck parts & repairs with.
Steve
Steve
Wow that came up well, and a great price. All you need now is some tooling and some scrap steel and you can start machining.
The 3 in ones are limited but it wouldn't stop me buying one that cheap if I didn't have a mill or lathe.
Any first projects in mind? A quick change tool post would be good value but it will cost you what the machine cost you.
Dave
The 3 in ones are limited but it wouldn't stop me buying one that cheap if I didn't have a mill or lathe.
Any first projects in mind? A quick change tool post would be good value but it will cost you what the machine cost you.
Dave
Picked up a 44142 new but surplus a few years ago for $700. Originally saw it on Craigslist and offered him what I purchased it for on eBay. He could have saved himself the fees. Only thing missing was the lens for the power light. For the infrequent times I need to machine something it has been fine.
machineshop
Active member
depends on how you want to use this machine. the following words are my personal point of fiew and i do not want to offend anybody.
had the same one years ago and soon i sold it. ok it can do a lot of things but none of them right in a professional way. you will never see such a machine being used in a searious metal shop because the key for professional and precise cuts is a machine that is built as rigid and heavy as possible when it comes to lathes and milling machines. you will soon discover that the whole design of this machine is not rigid enough at all.
for learning only a little bit how to make the first cuts with a lathe and milling machine and doing some very limited work they re probably more or less ok. but why do you want to limit yourself to do only small hobby projects if for the same price you can have much better and searious machines with a lot more potential.
personally for that money i would buy an older used lathe and an older used milling machine as huge and heavy as possible. then you are no longer handicapped by a machine that is not built to do some searious work.
had the same one years ago and soon i sold it. ok it can do a lot of things but none of them right in a professional way. you will never see such a machine being used in a searious metal shop because the key for professional and precise cuts is a machine that is built as rigid and heavy as possible when it comes to lathes and milling machines. you will soon discover that the whole design of this machine is not rigid enough at all.
for learning only a little bit how to make the first cuts with a lathe and milling machine and doing some very limited work they re probably more or less ok. but why do you want to limit yourself to do only small hobby projects if for the same price you can have much better and searious machines with a lot more potential.
personally for that money i would buy an older used lathe and an older used milling machine as huge and heavy as possible. then you are no longer handicapped by a machine that is not built to do some searious work.
spongerich
Well-known member
Amen to that. My first lathe was a tiny AA/Craftsman 109. Worked great for turning marshmallow and partially melted butter. Then I moved up to a slightly larger Craftsman/Atlas 618. Definitely a step in the right direction and perfectly capable of turning aluminum nicely and steel if you take very light cuts, but still pretty lightweight and you had to take great care.
When I got my first South Bend 9" it was a world of difference... didn't really take up much more room but so much less frustrating, especially for a novice.
riceburner
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2007
- Messages
- 31
Yes, the 3 in 1 machine will do some things that are passable, but will do nothing well.
Maybe to shorten a bolt (made from marshmallows), drill a hole in wood or cut a slot with an end mill in that same piece of wood. But after the newness wears off all you be is disappointed.
Maybe to shorten a bolt (made from marshmallows), drill a hole in wood or cut a slot with an end mill in that same piece of wood. But after the newness wears off all you be is disappointed.
E.Marquez
Well-known member
Haaa, lots of lack of skill talking **** about what they can not do with a machine..
Love it..
To each his own, lack of skill on a better machine does not make a machinist..
Some can fool them selves all they want, others understand it's poor technique, tool selection, set up that results in a crappy outcome...
Way to many of us produce things that are to spec, on size, with great finish to say otherwise.
If many can get good results, the few that can not,,,, it's not the machine..
Love it..
To each his own, lack of skill on a better machine does not make a machinist..
Some can fool them selves all they want, others understand it's poor technique, tool selection, set up that results in a crappy outcome...
Way to many of us produce things that are to spec, on size, with great finish to say otherwise.
If many can get good results, the few that can not,,,, it's not the machine..
bronco78 nailed it. I own a small machine shop with mills, lathes etc. I bought a 3 in one from smithy and use it all the time for some of the smaller stuff. Can't tell the difference from a part done in the smithy and one done on the Clausing.
waggie
Well-known member
this is the key to your decision making here.
Let's say, $850 for the combo tool, and you'll spend at least $1500 dollars in tooling by the time it's all said and done, totaling $2300. But be prepared to be in for a lot of disappointment. There will be a lot of time you'll be blaming your tool. You'll wonder why you spent $80 or $150 in a professional-industrial-level-cutter and it doesn't work as advertised. I did that.
I'm in the go big or go home camp. I'd save my $850 and wait on a better deal on a full size knee mill like a bridgeport or bridgeport clone for $1500. in the end, you'll spend $3000 instead of $2300. But you'll know when your part came out all F'ed up, it's your fault, not the tool. Thing is, your skills will improve over time... $850 mill drill lathe combo will not.
bimmer1980
Well-known member
Gapfast-- When you say this is your first entrance into machining, do you mean, you first attempt ever? or you've had some maching experience and this is your first to get some machining equipment at home?
If you've never machined anything before, I would recommend taking a machine class from a local community college. This would be a cheap way to get all the basics and get a good foundation. You would also find out if you really like maching or not.
If you already have some machining experience, then I would agree with others to get two separate machines and a bit larger, space and money permitting.
While I'm sure a person can produce small part on a small machine, it may all depend on your expertise and patience.
I have found that my time it more valuable than messing around with cheap or inferior tools..... and I want to keep my hair... ;-)
If you've never machined anything before, I would recommend taking a machine class from a local community college. This would be a cheap way to get all the basics and get a good foundation. You would also find out if you really like maching or not.
If you already have some machining experience, then I would agree with others to get two separate machines and a bit larger, space and money permitting.
While I'm sure a person can produce small part on a small machine, it may all depend on your expertise and patience.
I have found that my time it more valuable than messing around with cheap or inferior tools..... and I want to keep my hair... ;-)
justanengineer
Well-known member
You missed the fact that nobody said they couldnt make a 3-in-1 do the job within their small capacity, so your point is completely bass ackwards. What everyone has said is that they dont do it nearly as well, nor nearly as easily as on a professional machine.
I personally dont push my machine tools to the limit often, but I dont like to take hours to do a 20 minute job either bc I couldnt run a decent depth of cut or feed rate while cutting steel. If necessary, I could very easily manually setup change gears (owned South Bends previously) also, but I prefer a modern quick change box as well (less wasted time). I also occasionally have the need to machine a weld or other hard spot in scrapbinium, good luck doing that on these lil toys, been there, done that, not a fan of the material laughing at the tool.
Sorry if it offends anyone, and yes I do have quite a bit of experience with them through friends and a former employer (very small business, occasional light fab and repair work). Yes, a part made is a part made, and with enough work either variety of machine can split a thou with a decent operator, but I sure wouldnt wanna be back in that situation as I find it pretty similar to fixing your car alongside the interstate with just vise-grips and a screwdriver - frustrating. If its all you can find or fit then go for it, but I would suggest keeping your eyes open elsewhere.
Just my $0.02.
kevin47
Well-known member
You won't get $850 dollars worth out of it...In fact, I wouldn't want the thing anywhere near me...
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I've used a variety of sizes of milling machines, from big knee mills down to small mill/drills, and I mostly make smaller parts. I have never once said that a machine was too big to use for a small part. I have said a machine was too small to do it efficiently though. My perspective then is to get the biggest machine you can fit and afford.
Also, on the 3 in 1 machines, they are a lathe first with a mill as an afterthought, IMO. I mill much more often than I turn parts in a lathe. For my uses, I would rather have a large mill and a hobby benchtop lathe. If you don't foresee needing a mill much at all, but want to turn lots of small parts, a 3 in 1 might be alright.
Also, on the 3 in 1 machines, they are a lathe first with a mill as an afterthought, IMO. I mill much more often than I turn parts in a lathe. For my uses, I would rather have a large mill and a hobby benchtop lathe. If you don't foresee needing a mill much at all, but want to turn lots of small parts, a 3 in 1 might be alright.
ar2stp48
Well-known member
I have a Smithy model 14?? For small stuff it is ok; but I quickly learned I needed something a little bigger. Gave $400 for the Smithy so not hurt badly on it. Bought it for mill as I have a 9" South Bend lathe. Currently looking at a Grizzly upgrade. Used mills are rare in this part of country, or within driving distance. A used BP would be great, but hasnt happened in two years of looking.