Miller or ESAB multi-process?

[MarkG]

I'm a MIG welder, but want to work on my TIG skills. I could use BOTH on occasion, so you see where I'm going with this!

I've been looking at the ESAB Rebel 235ic and also Miller Multimatic and would like to hear from FIRST-HAND users of each about what you're impressions are of them.

I had a Hobart Handler 140, loved it, but sold it with the idea of upgrading down the road, and here I am. But I'd like to be able to TIG, and if I could TIG aluminum, so much the better, but if I had to use a spool gun and MIG the Al, that's OK I guess.

Any of you guys used either of these machines or own one?

Thanks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Both of those machines are BIG $$$$ ! I think you would be better off with an AlpaTIG 200X and a good MIG. Once you develop some TIG "chops" you will appreciate all of the features in the AlphaTIG.

From my research, all multi-process machines are a compromise. Most are basically a MIG machine that can be changed from constant voltage to constant current. Many require "scratch" or "lift" arc starting instead of high frequency start. This may or may not be an issue depending on what you are welding.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

What are you welding on? I'm generally not a fan of multiprocess machines either. I can't offer first hand knowledge on those machines, but I own a Thermal Arc (Esab family) tig and a Miller mig, and I think the Esab comes with better acessories (better flow meter/regulator, torch, leads). I would go with Esab as Miller has really started to lose it on quality (my opinion).

 

[atthebeach]

I have the Miller 215 Multiprocess welder. It is a terrific mig and tig welder. It is very quick to change over between mig and tig. I haven't used it for stick welding. Suggested machine settings are usually good enough for most applications and can easily be tweaked if necessary. There is a spool gun available to mig weld aluminum. The tig process is limited to DC, so no aluminum welding. Also, it is a lift start tig machine which takes a little practice to effectively use if you are used to high frequency start. If you are welding x-ray quality stuff, however, you will want a machine with high frequency start. For the limited applications I have in my shop, this machine has been a good choice.

 

[Muggzy]

Both of those machines are BIG $$$$ ! I think you would be better off with an AlpaTIG 200X and a good MIG. Once you develop some TIG "chops" you will appreciate all of the features in the AlphaTIG.

From my research, all multi-process machines are a compromise. Most are basically a MIG machine that can be changed from constant voltage to constant current. Many require "scratch" or "lift" arc starting instead of high frequency start. This may or may not be an issue depending on what you are welding.

Wow, the price on that AlpaTIG 200 is very appealing. I have no experience with TIG and wanted to start "playing" with it on the cheap. So I found a brand new HF ProTIG 165 that got good reviews (supposedly could do tig & stick), but the open circuit start voltage is so low at only 15v and non adjustable, that unless I crank up the current, it's a ***** to strike up an arc without sticking. I'm no professional, but I won't be giving up my Lincoln AC/DC tombstone any time soon.
Wish I'd done a little more research. I would've saved for a little while longer and picked up the AlphaTIG

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[pi_guy]

Multimatic will not do aluminum tig.
I have one great with Al spool gun good as a 115v mig machine.

I do my al tig with Dynasty 200 works like a charm.

The advantage is there will be parts for the Miller in 15 years if you need them.

The problem with cheap machines you are compromising for something. I been welding on Miller stuff for 40 plus years. There is nothing like them.
I have used most other machines and there is only one Miller.....

But I have had guys at the track who have welding machines with them but they have me do the repair on my Dynasty because they want it to work and they trust Miller more than the cheaper machine they have.

 

[dr_clyde]

I buy Miller welders when I can. I have 4 at the moment.

I used to use a Miller Multimatic at my last job. I used it for TIG most, but it did see some MIG on occasion. I have stick welded with it, not my favorite for stick. Can't run 6010, and I weld pipe with stick.

Some notes. It is a very nice DC TIG machine. Good smooth arc, snaps out nice, has good control with or without the foot pedal. There is NO high frequency, so it will be lift arc only. Also, as a DC only machine, you can't TIG aluminum.

Mig welds very nice on 240v input. Not so much on 120V.

I have never been impressed with any ESAB equipment I've used. My welding supply salesman doesn't have much good to say about them on the corperate level either.

 

[sberry]

I havnt used the cheap machines but the adjustable freq on the Dynasty makes you feel like a super hero. Can even go so fast as to make it look like spray.

 

[Abeo]

I have a Miller 215 MP, but have only used it on 120v MIG. So far, it's been great for the limited amount of welding I've done with it. I like that it has a dual bottle input so you don't have to do that much arranging between MIG and TIG.

The automatic settings on the MIG sure speed things up for setup. It welds nice, and feels like a quality unit. It is a definite upgrade to the Lincoln MigPak 140 I had before.
I just need to wire up a plug to try it out on 240v... will be interesting to see how it does on thicker stuff.

I would have loved to have AC tig in the machine, but it seems like we aren't there yet for an all-in-one solution that is reasonably priced. In the future, I'll probably get a standalone AC tig for aluminum.

 

[sberry]

I am a career welder. I work in general maintenance and some fabrication. I have a tig, havnt used it in 15 years. I got a feeder with a spool gun and it has saved every job I had to use it on. It is so super fast compared to tig in many ways. If I was a hobby type coukd dam near get by in life with a 200 mig and a spooly for when **** hit the fan.
If a guy is in business then there are other considerations.
When I got to do something different than light mild steel its usually cause I got something most people don't even own or I am contracting.

 

[Jason280]

Multimatic will not do aluminum tig

Not quite true, you can TIG aluminum on DC with straight helium. Is it ideal? No....but it can be done.

 

[pi_guy]

Not quite true, you can TIG aluminum on DC with straight helium. Is it ideal? No....but it can be done.

Why bother with an electric machine just gas weld it then.

You weld something Al with DC and I will use my AC machine and see who has a happier customer.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am a career welder. I work in general maintenance and some fabrication. I have a tig, havnt used it in 15 years. I got a feeder with a spool gun and it has saved every job I had to use it on. It is so super fast compared to tig in many ways.

THIS ! I love watching experts TIG weld. It is beautiful. Not practical for "production" work where time is money.

Not quite true, you can TIG aluminum on DC with straight helium. Is it ideal? No....but it can be done.

Buy a decent spool gun.

 

[matt_i]

I am a career welder. I work in general maintenance and some fabrication. I have a tig, havnt used it in 15 years. I got a feeder with a spool gun and it has saved every job I had to use it on. It is so super fast compared to tig in many ways. If I was a hobby type coukd dam near get by in life with a 200 mig and a spooly for when **** hit the fan.
If a guy is in business then there are other considerations.
When I got to do something different than light mild steel its usually cause I got something most people don't even own or I am contracting.

Im exact opposite. I weld with a Sync 250 and the MM251 just gathers dust. I am waiting for some project where I have to throw down miles of weld where the speed would be helpful. Everything else seems to fall into - high confidence structural steel type weld or a little detailed part that I don't want to melt the corner off of it.

 

[MrSurly]

I want to chime in here because I have a "3 in 1" Esab 252i... but I have no expertise or experience to expound about the specifics of the features or abilities of the machine.

I do want to throw in why I (and I think why *many* others) find these machines appealing. I had an old crackerbox AC machine that I could do some things with but I wanted to tackle a car restoration project that will need lots of work done that the crackerbox can't do. I need a MIG for the sheet metal and that's 90% of the project but also would want a TIG at some point for building headers and small stuff. The idea of buying three machines (expensive!) and dealing with the space they demand in the shop was not pleasant. The 3N1 makes a ton of sense for MY purposes especially since I'm not a pro welder. I now have a machine to do any type of welding I might need to do and the footprint of all three systems is less than a file cabinet. It's a 300Amp machine, will run a spool gun, supports a foot pedal ( I need to get one), has digital adjustability and all sorts of fancy features such as burn-back, post flow, etc.
I don't know how to use it all yet and am currently *teaching myself* how to TIG stainless tubing.
My only negative about the machine is that it won't do AC TIG so TIGing aluminum is out.
For a hobby-level welder I think the inverter MP machines are fantastic. For a professional welder, I'm sure that dedicated single-process machines are likely the way to go.

 

[8mpg]

If you're a DIY'er, Id definitely look into separate cheaper welders. I used to be a Miller person until my Millermatic 175 died after only going through one big spool of wire. Im a DIY'er and it was out of warranty. Its $300 for a circuit board and hope that was the fix or buy a new welder. I have an Everlast 185Tig and now a Lincoln 140 Mig. Two welders for different purposes, two different gas tanks (which will be needed) and Im still about $400 cheaper than the Miller, can tig aluminum... Miller is a big name but now there are many other people in the arena.

The last little thing about separate welders is if one goes down, I can probably make due with the other while one is being fixed. If your multiprocess welder goes down, you may be out of commission for a few weeks.

 

[sberry]

THIS ! I love watching experts TIG weld. It is beautiful. Not practical for "production" work where time is money.


Buy a decent spool gun.

I am not in production on most days but speed and ease is everything. Wire is so good for sheet metal and fab work. No slag, handles poor fit, so fast to fill a gap.

 

[sberry]

Im exact opposite. I weld with a Sync 250 and the MM251 just gathers dust. I am waiting for some project where I have to throw down miles of weld where the speed would be helpful. Everything else seems to fall into - high confidence structural steel type weld or a little detailed part that I don't want to melt the corner off of it.

I weld lots of little stuff with wire, I tacked a BB to a rod the other day. Wire is very good for structural too. Very good mechanical properties. Better than 6010,,, as good anyway and about as good as 7018 and some maybe better.

 

[pmason0]

I have the Miller Multimatic 200, it's a really nice machine, also have the spool gun for aluminium. That said if I was to do it again I would get two separate machines. I was a newbie when purchasing the Miller and didn't have the knowledge at the time I needed AC to TIG aluminum. Still have it but also picked up a separate TIG to do aluminum.

 

[sberry]

Post a link to one of the China tigs. In the pic above the pencil was to show the fit up of w web slash cut with an existing cut. This was mobile home beam. About 10 and 11 gage in the web and 3/16 in the flanges. I weld hot and could go a little farther with the machine turned down a little but fill this gap and poor fit in all consuming nature that its fully welded for the most part,,,, about 85% or so, faster to weld than fit. Running downand can really make the puddle hang in.

 

[sberry]

There is some glare and the first pic might be the backside. This is a case of quality being somewhat irrelevant and sacrifice a little appearance for speed and utility.

 

[MarkG]

Thanks for the replies. I did order the Multimatic, for the reasons I stated above, but just to reiterate---this is strictly for 'hobby welding' and for working on basic TIG skills, which I think transfer over to aluminum TIG pretty well, once a person has the basics down. Yes I know it doesn't TIG aluminum!

I'm not 'welding on' anything in particular and don't have specific plans for this welder----all I wanted was something that could both MIG (for general purpose repairs/small fab) and TIG (just for the sake of practicing my TIG skills in general.) The stick is just a bonus I guess!

I understand the AHP 200X is well-regarded for TIG and I was tempted by those long ago! However, MIG being so useful for general fab work, I wanted that process available. Money IS an object for me, so I didn't want to buy a stand-alone MIG AND TIG, but if I did, I would have got another Hobart Handler. I loved my Handler 140 and probably should have kept it. This machine is primarily for me to work on my TIG skills, but also to have the option of MIG when needed. Plus it's portable, fairly reasonably priced and it's a Miller.

Being able to TIG aluminum isn't a priority with me right now. If the need to weld Al ever arises, at least I can use a spool gun with the MM------yes, I know Al welds differently than mild steel. I've done it. I also understand that some say Miller's quality may not be what it used to be, but at least it's a known brand and parts/service are available all over, where something like AHP is not. Where would I get a AHP serviced or parts, if at all without packing it up and sending it off somewhere? Anyway-----it's supposed to show up today sometime. I'm just putting the finishing coats of 'Miller Blue' on my old 'Hobart White' MIG cart.

 

[tlevan03]

I have the Tweco 211i. I'm pretty happy with it after about 3 years with it. The mig works great, stick welds fine, and tigs pretty well. I'm not a very experienced tig welder, but it was fairly easy to start playing with. I was between the rebel and the tweco, I went with the tweco because of the price, and the duty cycles are a little better than the rebel. I was fine without having AC on it, I don't have much of a need to do aluminum. I really have no complaints on it

 

[8mpg]

Glad you were able to decide on a welder. If you dont have a cart, the Harbor Freight cart is really nice for the money. Has drawers to hold all the tig accessories. You can get a coupon to get it for $144 or something like that.

 

[MarkG]

Here's the cart I built after I got my first welder, a Hobart. Now it sports a new color scheme of course! Based on a hand-truck. Build was posted years ago.

 

[BD1]

Miller has current rebates.

https://www.millerwelds.com/build-with-blue-rebate

 

[sberry]

Here's the cart I built after I got my first welder, a Hobart. Now it sports a new color scheme of course! Based on a hand-truck. Build was posted years ago.

There isn't much way to do it better than that. Engine stand makes a decent core too but that cart is real good.

 

[MarkG]

There isn't much way to do it better than that. Engine stand makes a decent core too but that cart is real good.

Thanks. Can't wait for the TIG torch to arrive and get an Argon bottle so I can start working on my TIG skills. We had a short time with it in school, since I was mostly going for my MIG certificate. I'd love to get proficient at TIG, both because I love the preciseness of it and the look of a nice TIG weld, and of course, good TIG jobs pay better, but I'm a long way from that point most likely......

 

[sberry]

Depends. I have seen some guys work on specific areas for tests, they have become specialists and got top pay under the right circumstances. Didn't take long but they usually have instruction. Tig may be one of the easiest in this respect.

 

[MarkG]

I may or may not be posting pics of my TIG practice with it once I'm fully set up for it. Stay tuned.