Mini-split A/C Shopping...

[mpire]

So I am beating a dead horse here I know, but there are only a couple threads on the mini-split stuff.

Summer is rapidly approaching in Florida (80 this weekend) and I am trying to get ready.

Are there any benefits to running 110v vs 230v disregarding the differences in breakers etc.

I have come to the conclusion that the SEER is pretty much a pointless number on a mini-split as the 13 vs 20 SEER adds up to about 50 bucks a year difference in costs for a 9K BTU unit.

(EDIT: NO GOVERNMENT CHEEZE FOR LESS THAN 16 SEER, THAT MATTERS!)

So now its down to running wire. I am planning to run a 14/3 wire running out to a small exterior breaker and then to the compressor unit.

I am going to hide it behind some bushes, should I put a small slab down or should I just bracket it to the house?

Here is a picture of where its going. I just got approval from the HOA, so its time to buy.

 

[rickairmedic]

Well since you asked 240V is almost always better than 120V for compressors ands such . Also I would run 12/2 WG not 14/3 you dont ned a neutral on a mini split unit . The 14 will work on a 20AMP circuit but you are at the top of its range so to me the 12 is a better option since you will be closer to the bottom of its load carrying range . You do live in Fla so you will most likely be running it at least 8 months out of the year depending on what part of Fla .


Rick


Rick

 

[Jackfre]

Rick is spot on with the service disconnect size, but from the condensing unit to the evaporator (inside unit) you do want 14/3, on most manuf equipment I am familiar with.. I would not ground mount it. Airtec.com make mounting brackets that will get your condensing unit off the ground. That will keep the condensing unit cleaner as you won't be blowing grass clippings, dirt etc into the ground mounted unit. As well, it keeps critters out...well mostly.

 

[Xray]

^^^ that

My 18,000 BTU SANYO mini split uses three #10 to the outdoor unit, three #14 between the outdoor & indoor unit and two #18 low voltage (12V inter-unit control line) thermostat type wires.

I ran three separate # 10 THNN wires (red, black, green) in conduit between a 30A service disconnect and a 90 degree LB that mounted on the wall directly behind my service panel. I used a pre-fabbed liquid tight whip HERE to connect the mini's outdoor unit to the disconnect.

THNN wire is the easy way to go wiring these units as it's much easier to feed through the conduit. Don't be tempted to run Romex or UF direct burial wire through conduit. The protective jacket on these wires were not designed to be run through a length of conduit and can overheat, whereas THNN is a heat resistant thermoplastic wire designed to run in conduit.

I went with a simple slab to mount my unit.

 

[Vicegrip]

Don't hide it in the bush if you don't have to. It needs full air flow. Any recirculation or restriction in flow will cost money.

 

[mpire]

The HOA rules state that it must not be visible from the street, and since I live on a corner lot, I don't have alot of options for placement, so I will have to block the view with a bush of some form or function. I figure I could stick it behind the bush and just cut back the bush around it to give it the necessary air flow as per the directions.

Also, the bush would block the sun too. That bush is 8 feet tall, but its very thin on the inside.

Ok, so 12/2 is the wire to go with.

 

[Jay41]

Blocking the sun isn't as important as getting air flow through the condensor, if it doesn't have enough air flow, it will trip hp cut-out, as you will be running a very high head pressure, 410a already runs high.........blocking air flow may cause premature failure of compressor........just my 2 cents.

 

[Xray]

The wire size will be in the install instructions.

On the bushes...

Here is the clearance for my SANYO mini split.

 

[Jay41]

The wire size will be in the install instructions.

On the bushes...

Here is the clearance for my SANYO mini split.

They only required 2" of inlet air?

We would never install one that way.

 

[rickairmedic]

I like to have 12-18" of clearance all the way around a condensing unit 18" is of course better if possible .


Rick

 

[Jay41]

I like to have 12-18" of clearance all the way around a condensing unit 18" is of course better if possible .


Rick

I agree, the guys try to install with 2' all around if possible.

 

[Xray]

They only required 2" of inlet air?

We would never install one that way.

I agree...

I have plenty of clearance on my install. I was thinking maybe the 2" minimum is more for wall mount installs. Keeping the unit closer to the wall helps with a more stable (safer) mount...

OP if you have decided on a particular brand of system... go to there www and download a the PDF install info. This will answer many of your questions, as these units are similar... there are different install specs for each manufacture.

 

[mpire]

Ok, heres the update...

The mini-split showed up today. I ended up getting screwed on the first one because the wife figured out what I was doing and forced me to get the "pretty one" for the master bedroom. Hello LG Art Cool. Its only an extra $300, and it looks so much better.

I bought it yesterday from ACwholesalers in Miami. They stuck me for Florida sales tax as well. Thats OK with me, because I can show up there and yell at people in person and sue them in court much easier since they are in Florida. I call it insurance. It showed up today, overnight, even though I just got ground delivery.

I picked up a roll of 100' 12/3 as the instructions for the LG clearly point out having a ground connection. I am not sure if I need it, but I guess it can't hurt while I am at it. I have to run the power up and through the attic to the other side of the house, literally. Not sure I like that, but not really another option at the moment, so fishing the wire is really going to **** balls. I also picked up a 30 amp fuse-able pull out air-conditioner disconnect, a couple of QO Tandem breakers, and a 15 amp single pole circuit breaker.

If someone could tell me what the hell is the difference between these two breakers, I would appreciate it. The first one is $17, the second one is $33. I can't tell the difference, but I definitely don't want to use the wrong one. I bought them both, will return the ones I don't need.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100013661

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100076261

I spent way too much money on the extra ****, but I figured better safe than sorry on the first one. Its a learning experience I guess.

Code Item Qty Price Grand Total
11922 LAN096HV / LAU096HV - LG 9,000 BTU 19 SEER Art Cool Heat Pump Ductless Air Conditioner 1 $978.00 $978.00
11099 25 foot 1/4 LL 3/8 SL Lineset with Flare Fitting Connections For Ductless Mini-Split Systems 1 $110.50 $110.50
12003 DH-16-I Universal Drain Hose for Ductless Mini Split Systems ( 25 Foot Length ) 1 $18.75 $18.75
11353 SL450 - Ductless Mini Split Air Conditioner Outdoor Unit Heavy Duty Wall mounting brackets 1 $59.00 $59.00
11698 MSW18425 - 25 Ft 18 AWG 4 Conductor Ductless Mini Split Shielded Stranded Wire Control Wire 1 $10.00 $10.00
12000 NPF-75 Wall Sleeve for Ductless Mini Split Systems 1 $8.35 $8.35

Subtotal: $1,184.60
Tax (7.00%): $82.92
Shipping Cost: $0.00
Grand Total: $1,267.52

So far I have spent a mint:

AC Unit and Accessories $1267.52
Square D Tandem Breakers $66.92
Square D 15 Amp 240v $14.38
12-3 Copper 100' $105.00
30 amp fused disconnect $8.98

Grand Total so far: $1529.72

However, I am doing this as more of a learning experience and I am planning on doing another system in the garage next. So I should be able to get away with not buying any accessories or line-sets etc since I should have at least 10 feet left over of everything when I am done.

I guess it looks OK. The first thing I thought was that it looked like my wife's printer/scanner thing since it has a mirror finish on it. Lets HOPE LG is a better unit than a generic non-brand, though I seriously doubt it is.

 

[mpire]

Oh yeah, here are the specs:

Cooling Capacity 8,900 - 9,200 BTU
Heating Capacity (BTU) 11,700 - 12,000 BTU
Max Fuse Size 15 Amps
Power Supply 208/230-60 v- 1 Phase
Efficiency 19.7 Seer
HSPF N/A
Sound Level 48 dB
Dimensions 30 5/16"W x 9 5/8 " D x 21 5/16" H
Max Line Set Length, Rise 49.0 ft / 23.0 ft
Low Ambient Heating ( fahrenheit ) 14º
Weight 83.8 Lbs
----------------------------------------------------------------
Indoor Units (1) LAN096HV
Cooling Capacity 9,200 BTU
Heating Capacity 12,000 BTU
Line Size 1/4 x 3/8
Sound Level 38,35,32 dB
Dimensions 35 3/16" W x 6 1/2" D x 11 1/8" H
Drain Pipe Size 1/2"
Weight 23.1

 

[rickairmedic]

Well lets start at the beginning . You dont need the 12/3 wire you only need 12/2WG 12/3 has 2 hots a neutral and a ground 12/2WG has 2 hots and a ground .

Ok next what did you buy the breakers you linked to for ( the condensor unit takes a double pole breaker and the 2 you linked to are both single pole ) I understand they look like double poles but they are only pulling power off of one lugg in the panel so you are getting 2 110 volt circuits off of the same legg and what you need is a 110 volt circuit off of each legg giving you 220 volts ( yes I know its 120 and 240 .)


Rick

 

[mpire]

Thanks for the insight, I will take back the wire and exchange it for the 12/2 then. I never professed to be a genius.

The double breakers are to make room in the box.

I don't have any open slots, so I am consolidating 4 existing 15 amp breakers into 2 double breakers, then I will have room for the two row 15 AMP 230v breaker that I also bought for $14.38.

What I am trying to figure out is what the difference is between the two tandem breakers. Which ones do I need to replace the standard boring single pole 15 amp breakers.

What kind of box do you think I need for beside the A/C unit? Do I need a fuse in there or just a pull out type setup?

I hung it on the wall just to have a look at it. I am not sure if I am sold yet. Why is it I have to spend another $300 to get one that looks purty?

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok in that case the only differance I see in the 2 breakers is The $36 one says Square D on it and the $18 one doesnt so take back the $36 ones and while there pick up one of these .


http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


That sure is a pretty unit and if it makes SWMBO happy then thats why you paid $300 extra for it . I will say it could have been worse she could have spotted the ones that look like a picture frame .


Rick

 

[mpire]

That sure is a pretty unit and if it makes SWMBO happy then thats why you paid $300 extra for it . I will say it could have been worse she could have spotted the ones that look like a picture frame . Rick

What the hell is that? Don't give her any more ideas.

I am going with a white 18000 btu one for the garage if this one works out. I already have a vacuum pump for working on the car A/C, so I figure I can cut and re-flare the lines I paid too much for, and then vacuum it down really good with the automotive gauges and let it sit for a day or so to see if it still has a vacuum when I check it again. If thats the case, then I guess I can just open it up the valves and see how well this thing works.

I am seriously debating having my a/c guy come out and bleed off some of the 410 though. I hear the loops of copper are a bad idea, so even though the unit is pre-charged for 25 feet of line, I will only be using 17-18 feet.

I figure I will have a 16 foot hight difference between the indoor and outdoor units. This is one of the reasons that I went with the LG over some of the generic brands. They have a limitation on height, and I am not sure why. Max elevation difference on the LG is 23 feet without a trap, so I should be good.

Standard length is 25 feet, max length is 49 feet, and I need to add an additional .22 oz of refrigerant per foot over 25 feet I think. So the question is do I loop the lines behind the unit and just go with it, or do I shorten the lines, re-flare the ends, and have my a/c guy come out and do a service call on it before I fire it up?

I have to figure out the placement of the compressor unit. I bought the brackets just in case, but I am thinking I can use them on the garage unit later on this summer instead. I am not sure, still working that part out. At least I know where on the wall I am putting it on the INSIDE.

The only think I know for sure is how to fix the trim I had to take down to fit the a/c unit on the wall in the bedroom.

 

[rickairmedic]

I would honestly recomend having your AC guy come out and do the initial fire up and recover the extra refrigerant . With R-22 you could get close and be ok so to speak . With 410A the charge needs to be pretty much spot on if you want it to work right . You should also shorten the lineset to fit as well. Way back in the old days guys would leave the lineset coiled as the linesets came precharged but thats not a good way of doing it.


Oh yeah picture frame Dont show this to SWMBO .

Rick

 

[Jackfre]

If you have extra line set length, do not "coil" (as in loops)the tubing. You can run it in a serpentine pattern. Look at the coil on the back of a refrigerator. It will lay off L to R horizontally back and forth. It has been my experience that, regardless of what evap you put internal they tend to disappear to the eye within 24 hrs. I found that to be true at my house and I survey my contractor customers on this all the time.

When you look at seer rating and think they are only $50/yr, keep in mind that is at todays rates. You can get units up to 26 seer. I'd strongly suggest using the wall mounting brackett to assist in keeping the unit clean and critter free. Give your self as much space around the unit as possible. I just spoke with a customer down on the Cape yesterday who said he didn't get as good operation ($) this year as last. "where is the unit", I asked? He reached over and into this thick evergreen shrub and there it was. I explained that all he needed was a machete and he would be good to go. Maybe I should start carrying one on service calls

 

[mpire]

Ok in that case the only differance I see in the 2 breakers is The $36 one says Square D on it and the $18 one doesnt so take back the $36 ones and while there pick up one of these .

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Ok, so going back to HD this morning to get the 12/2 and the other breakers, and probably that box thing.

I will also look for a flare tool while I am at it. Might as well, right?

I am going to price out the copper lines too while I am at it. I bet I got raped on the line set, but I thought it was something special. Its just regular copper tubing with foam insulation. I wonder if Home Depot sells those covers for the line-set.

The challenge is going to be getting the power up to the attic though. I haven't yet figured out how the hell I am going to wire it. I can't bury the line can I? I am thinking I might be able to run it up inside one of the walls. I may be cutting holes in the laundry room wall to run a sub panel.

You guys think I need 6 ga wire for that, right? I would want to do 220 outlets for the Compressor, Garage AC, Bedroom AC, future AC #3, and Water Heater. That still doesn't get the wire into the bedroom though. Maybe the best bet is to just get a 6 ga wire run to a junction box and break the 12/2 off of that. Then I can add a sub panel in the future.

What about running a single wire for two mini-split systems? Can I even get away with that? Maybe I should just do two runs of 12/2 while I am at it.

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok as far as getting the wire up to the attic ( from outside ) conduit is the way to go . Simply mount your disconect box on the wall and then run conduit up from it to the attic drill a hole through the wall into the attic and run the wire. You will need a seperate run of wire to each outside unit.

Rick

 

[mpire]

I cant run conduit up two stories, hoa would never let me do that. have to figure out how to run from breaker box to the attic inside the house. I have concrete block walls too. go figure.

 

[Jackfre]

I cant run conduit up two stories, hoa would never let me do that. have to figure out how to run from breaker box to the attic inside the house. I have concrete block walls too. go figure.

Go to airtec.com and look at their line-set covers. Trims out like downspout and can be painted. They make the wall bracketts too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The HOA rules state that it must not be visible from the street,

As others have said, air flow is critical. You might think about some type of wood fence, but it has to be one that allows a lot of air flow.

IMHO, higher voltage is always better, so I would go with a 220. You could probably use 14/3 (plus ground) if you went 220V. I don't know the price difference 14/3 and 12/2 but I almost had a heart attack when I walked past a stack of 250' coils of 12/2 at HD the other day ! My brain has block out the price.

 

[rickairmedic]

As others have said, air flow is critical. You might think about some type of wood fence, but it has to be one that allows a lot of air flow.

IMHO, higher voltage is always better, so I would go with a 220. You could probably use 14/3 (plus ground) if you went 220V. I don't know the price difference 14/3 and 12/2 but I almost had a heart attack when I walked past a stack of 250' coils of 12/2 at HD the other day ! My brain has block out the price.

14/3 is to small for this application and there is no need for a neutral line so no need for 3 when 2 will do and includes the ground.


Rick

 

[mpire]

As others have said, air flow is critical. You might think about some type of wood fence, but it has to be one that allows a lot of air flow.

IMHO, higher voltage is always better, so I would go with a 220. You could probably use 14/3 (plus ground) if you went 220V.

You totally lost me. I have no idea what you are talking about. That could be because I am stupid, which definitely applies here.

I already have the a/c system. Its an LG 9200 btu cooling unit. I picked up the 12/2 wire today and returned the 12/3 and pocketed $50. Thanks rickairmedic!

I also looked at the price of copper. Its 3/8 $24.19 and 1/4 $16.46 for 20', I paid $110 for the 25' lineset that is just the basic copper with a flared end and some foam insulation. The math works out to $50.81 for 50 foot of copper. Add 5 bucks for the ends, and I don't know how much the insulation cost me, but I pretty much got robbed for sure. Do I need a different grade of copper for a/c work? Is this something special?

I don't know how much the insulation cost, but it can't be 50 bucks for 25 feet. Something is messed up here. I figure I got taken for at least a $25 ride.

Picked up a hole saw, and got the breakers.

So I bought both kinds. Basically the double breakers have a claw that holds on to the nuetral strip in the box, and that claw only fits in the last 4 spots or so on each side or whatever. Its a different fitting but it still works fine. If I wasn't a total *****, I would have removed the tandem breaker that I had in the box and taken that one with me. However, that breaker was controlling the garage door, so I left it alone. The $33 breakers are the same, but instead of the claw, they have the same fitting as the single breaker. If that makes any sense. Apparently the $33 breakers are for old pre-1967 QO boxes that don't have the claw fitting. So I bought both kinds just for the hell of it and its going to save me $35 bucks in the long run. Works for me. I cut the power to the house, which involved breaking the little tab the power company put on there. I am going to go ahead and run the power wire for the A/C unit and then call them and tell them to put a new tab on it. Seem stupid that I have to break that tab off to get to the main house breaker. Oh well. I will deal with that. I probably will use more power than normal anyways this month, so hopefully the power company won't accuse me of stealing.

Ummm.... no conduit type stuff yet. I have to figure that one out still. I am thinking that I will run the 12/2 along the top of the laundry room in the corner. I am thinking I will stick a piece of plastic conduit up in the top corner of the ceiling and cover it with crown molding. That, and try really hard not to pierce it with the nail gun. Thats the whole point of using conduit.

OK, so I am on track. First I have to feed the power cable up into the attic, then I have to go borrow the neighbors ladder and make a hole in the flashing to pull it down the side of the house. I have some of those plastic hole grommet things that protects the wiring, should I use that or a large rubber grommet that I have for automotive applications?

So at least I have a game plan.

I think the a/c on the car I just bought is broken. I am kinda pissed about that. It has plenty of refrigerant, and it has normal pressure on the high side as compared to the other two identical cars I compared it to this afternoon, but the low side is dropping into vacuum when running. When I shut off the car, the low side pegs the needle all the way to the right. The other car does that too, and I haven't messed with it. I figure I have a clogged expansion valve. The valve is very easy to get to, its the $45 in 134a that I have to replace that makes me angry. It cools off and on when driving. The difference in vent temperatures is around 15-25 degrees. (I measured with a thermometer.) I figure something is clogging it up and I will have to go in and do surgery. Which means I will have to replace all the o-rings too while I am in there to prevent any future leaks, and then I will probably replace the evaporator and dryer too because its 10 years old and probably on its last legs. I hate working on A/C systems.

 

[green.bubbly]

You totally lost me. I have no idea what you are talking about. That could be because I am stupid, which definitely applies here.

I already have the a/c system. Its an LG 9200 btu cooling unit. I picked up the 12/2 wire today and returned the 12/3 and pocketed $50. Thanks rickairmedic!

I also looked at the price of copper. Its 3/8 $24.19 and 1/4 $16.46 for 20', I paid $110 for the 25' lineset that is just the basic copper with a flared end and some foam insulation. The math works out to $50.81 for 50 foot of copper. Add 5 bucks for the ends, and I don't know how much the insulation cost me, but I pretty much got robbed for sure. Do I need a different grade of copper for a/c work? Is this something special?

I don't know how much the insulation cost, but it can't be 50 bucks for 25 feet. Something is messed up here. I figure I got taken for at least a $25 ride.

Picked up a hole saw, and got the breakers.

So I bought both kinds. Basically the double breakers have a claw that holds on to the nuetral strip in the box, and that claw only fits in the last 4 spots or so on each side or whatever. Its a different fitting but it still works fine. If I wasn't a total *****, I would have removed the tandem breaker that I had in the box and taken that one with me. However, that breaker was controlling the garage door, so I left it alone. The $33 breakers are the same, but instead of the claw, they have the same fitting as the single breaker. If that makes any sense. Apparently the $33 breakers are for old pre-1967 QO boxes that don't have the claw fitting. So I bought both kinds just for the hell of it and its going to save me $35 bucks in the long run. Works for me. I cut the power to the house, which involved breaking the little tab the power company put on there. I am going to go ahead and run the power wire for the A/C unit and then call them and tell them to put a new tab on it. Seem stupid that I have to break that tab off to get to the main house breaker. Oh well. I will deal with that. I probably will use more power than normal anyways this month, so hopefully the power company won't accuse me of stealing.

Ummm.... no conduit type stuff yet. I have to figure that one out still. I am thinking that I will run the 12/2 along the top of the laundry room in the corner. I am thinking I will stick a piece of plastic conduit up in the top corner of the ceiling and cover it with crown molding. That, and try really hard not to pierce it with the nail gun. Thats the whole point of using conduit.

OK, so I am on track. First I have to feed the power cable up into the attic, then I have to go borrow the neighbors ladder and make a hole in the flashing to pull it down the side of the house. I have some of those plastic hole grommet things that protects the wiring, should I use that or a large rubber grommet that I have for automotive applications?

So at least I have a game plan.

I think the a/c on the car I just bought is broken. I am kinda pissed about that. It has plenty of refrigerant, and it has normal pressure on the high side as compared to the other two identical cars I compared it to this afternoon, but the low side is dropping into vacuum when running. When I shut off the car, the low side pegs the needle all the way to the right. The other car does that too, and I haven't messed with it. I figure I have a clogged expansion valve. The valve is very easy to get to, its the $45 in 134a that I have to replace that makes me angry. It cools off and on when driving. The difference in vent temperatures is around 15-25 degrees. (I measured with a thermometer.) I figure something is clogging it up and I will have to go in and do surgery. Which means I will have to replace all the o-rings too while I am in there to prevent any future leaks, and then I will probably replace the evaporator and dryer too because its 10 years old and probably on its last legs. I hate working on A/C systems.

If it cools off when driving, your problem may be your electric fans not working. I had that problem last year. Nissan dealer told me my compressor was shot and I was looking at around $1,500 bucks. I asked them if the compressor was bad, why did the AC work so damn good while rolling.

Shop manager took another look and "discovered" one of my two fans were out. I still wonder what they would have said if I paid them to change the compressor and related items and it still did not cool?

It is a quick and easy check. When the AC compressor is on, your cooling fans should be running.

 

[mpire]

Yeah, the AC fan is running at idle.

When doing 80 down the interstate it comes and goes. Its sudden, as if the compressor was kicking on and off, but it seems to me like the compressor is spinning when I am looking at it in the garage.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Rick you are the pro, so what you say I am certain is correct !

My point was, if you have a choice on voltages for the compressor (110 or 220), the higher voltage would require less current (amps) and you could get by with 14 gauge based on my assumption that the compressor would not draw more than 15 amps @220v.

I do understand why you only need 12/2.

I'm going shut up now and let the "pro" handle it.

 

[rickairmedic]

Rick you are the pro, so what you say I am certain is correct !

My point was, if you have a choice on voltages for the compressor (110 or 220), the higher voltage would require less current (amps) and you could get by with 14 gauge based on my assumption that the compressor would not draw more than 15 amps @220v.

I do understand why you only need 12/2.

I'm going shut up now and let the "pro" handle it.

20 years or so . The 14 would work on a 10' run but running things across a house the 12 will not loose enough amperage over the length to hurt anything where the 14 would . I have actually specced as high as 10 on a few jobs due to the length of the run ( better a little overkill than a little under ) . I do agree to always use 220 over 110 when it is available .


Rick

 

[mpire]

Rick you are the pro, so what you say I am certain is correct !

My point was, if you have a choice on voltages for the compressor (110 or 220), the higher voltage would require less current (amps) and you could get by with 14 gauge based on my assumption that the compressor would not draw more than 15 amps @220v.

I do understand why you only need 12/2.

I'm going shut up now and let the "pro" handle it.

Oh, OK. You didn't read the thread from the beginning. Thats where you lost me.

I got the LG 9200 BTU purty one.

Its 220. Requires a 15 amp breaker according to the install manual.

 

[crazy wheel]

You totally lost me. I have no idea what you are talking about. That could be because I am stupid, which definitely applies here.

I already have the a/c system. Its an LG 9200 btu cooling unit. I picked up the 12/2 wire today and returned the 12/3 and pocketed $50. Thanks rickairmedic!

I also looked at the price of copper. Its 3/8 $24.19 and 1/4 $16.46 for 20', I paid $110 for the 25' lineset that is just the basic copper with a flared end and some foam insulation. The math works out to $50.81 for 50 foot of copper. Add 5 bucks for the ends, and I don't know how much the insulation cost me, but I pretty much got robbed for sure. Do I need a different grade of copper for a/c work? Is this something special?

I don't know how much the insulation cost, but it can't be 50 bucks for 25 feet. Something is messed up here. I figure I got taken for at least a $25 ride.

Refrigeration copper is dehydrated and contains a charge of N2 or dry air to keep the inside dry and free from oxidation.

 

[Jackfre]

You can buy pre-insulated line sets. I would never use a factory flare on the line set. I cut off the factory flare and do my own and then know what I have. Once done at the factory, those units travel a ways and things happen

 

[mpire]

Refrigeration copper is dehydrated and contains a charge of N2 or dry air to keep the inside dry and free from oxidation.

But how much more does it normally cost?

Is $110 for 25' a good deal or a bad one?

 

[padstack]

Ok, heres the update...

The mini-split showed up today. I ended up getting screwed on the first one because the wife figured out what I was doing and forced me to get the "pretty one" for the master bedroom. Hello LG Art Cool. Its only an extra $300, and it looks so much better.

LOL! I'm doing the same thing for a master bedroom over my garage. Based on the home layout, there's no option to bring ductwork into the new bedroom without adding a new furnace, ductwork, etc. A mini-split was a MUCH better choice. The wife complained about how it looked. I told her "there's no such thing as a pretty mini-split!"

I guess I could have gotten one of the units that mounts in the ceiling (in hind sight, I might have), but I'm happy with what I have. Installing mine this weekend - hopefully! Mine came with the wiring harness pre-made and all I have to do is plug it in (other than run the outlet outside for the compressor).

 

[crazy wheel]

But how much more does it normally cost?

Is $110 for 25' a good deal or a bad one?

I haven't bought 1/4" or 1/2" in a few years, let alone any that with armor flex. Might be a tad high.

Personally I wouldn't complain about the price if I needed it, and I was sure it was what the manufacturer said I needed. Peace of mind is worth something, isn't it?

 

[crazy wheel]

What the hell is that? Don't give her any more ideas.

I am going with a white 18000 btu one for the garage if this one works out. I already have a vacuum pump for working on the car A/C, so I figure I can cut and re-flare the lines I paid too much for, and then vacuum it down really good with the automotive gauges and let it sit for a day or so to see if it still has a vacuum when I check it again. If thats the case, then I guess I can just open it up the valves and see how well this thing works.

How are you going to measure the vacuum?

 

[mpire]

How are you going to measure the vacuum?

I had planned on leaving the gauges there for a while.

 

[crazy wheel]

I had planned on leaving the gauges there for a while.

Gauges measure in inches of hg.

Doesn't the manufacture require it to be pull to a 500 micron or less vacuum?