Mini-split A/C Shopping...

[rickairmedic]

Mpire I personally like a 1 foot minimum around my condensors and if I can get 2 feet on all sides I am even happier . Although I wonder after building that pretty pad you are looking at wall mounting again.


Rick

 

[mpire]

OK..... Lets conclude this project that has taken me 9 weeks from start to finish...

Electrical is done I guess. Here is a picture of the breaker box:

I think I need to wrap the white wire with black tape or put a tag on it telling people that its not a neutral. I used a wire grommet or whatever in the hole in the box so the wire doesn't chafe. The wire is 12/2 romex that you have all seen before. I used about 95 feet in total. Its not cut anywhere but in the outside cut off box...

I am sure someone here will tell me that the control wire shouldn't be in the same conduit. That is the only thing I can think that may not be right, but Sean said its cool so I am not going to worry about it.

Here is the unit wiring:

I pretty much gave up on the coolant lines. Everyone on here has me so paranoid about line flaring and nitrogen and all those little things that I just gave up and said the hell with it. I ran the line-set, but I did not connect any of the copper. I just loosely connected it.

Sean, my AC professional, came out this morning and buttoned it up for me. He cut and re-flared the lines using a single flare tool that looked old as hell.

Then he did the nitrogen pressure test thing to 200+ psi, I forget how much exactly, then pulled a vacuum with his fancy tools, then he opened the system and let the refrigerant out into the system, and then ran tests on the compressor to make sure the coolant levels were correct and the compressor was running or whatever.

He also checked my wiring and said everything looks good. The charge? $79

Its all done, and I am glad its over. However in the mean time I have also had the whole house painted, overhauled the cars A/C system, and did a bunch of landscaping work too. So I have been very busy.

Also, just to show you how busy I have been this year, there have been something like 131 days in the year and I have spent 94 of them in Marriott Hotels. So i am not around the house that much to get these projects done.

Here is the system all buttoned up and running:

I still have to finish off the drain line. Sean says keep it a minimum of 18 inches from the house. I will figure that one out this weekend. Currently its draining just fine. I poured a gallon of water through the evaporator coils and none of it wound up on the carpet.

And here is a pic from farther away:

So begin commenting on what I screwed up.

 

[mpire]

OK, dumb question I know, but its all that's left to do...

The top of the line-set cover has 2 screws that I drill into the concrete wall, so the top half of that elbow is against the wall. Should I caulk it to seal it against the wall or do you think its just fine the way it is since its under the over-hang of the roof?

 

[Jackfre]

Good for you. It looks great! While it is apain in the neck at this point, I think I'd seal that elbow. Let us know how the system works for you.

 

[mpire]

Yeah, I have had my neighbors ladder for over a month now, so I need to give it back.

I will throw some alex plus up there and seal it to the house. I have to drill those top two screws still, so its on the list.

I also stuffed the hole with some window gasket grey foam that I had left over from the car A/C rebuild, so I think I am good.

I have a serious ant problem that has recently cropped up, so I have to start spraying. No ants in the house yet, but found a huge ant bed in one of my planters when I started sawing the line-set cover and they all started swarming out. Gotta fix that.

I enjoyed the a/c last night. Its too quiet, that's for sure. I didn't have to run the entire house A/C. The house is about 2200 square feet with 18' ceilings in half of the downstairs. So we will see if this saves me any money.

The current power bill just arrived. The reading was on 5/3 and the usage was 1347 KWH, which is higher than May of last year, but lower than June of last year. The wife is working nights for the last month, so she is sleeping during the day. Total bill was $181.63. I have also replaced the outside lights on the front of the house with LED fixtures, but I don't think that will have an effect. Lets hope that I see a noticeable difference on the next bill. I should start writing down the power meter on a daily basis.

When I walked out of the bedroom this morning the heat hit me. It was over 80 in the house, which I really don't seem to mind that much when I am awake. The thermometer I have in the bedroom tells me that its 74 in the bedroom, on the other side of the door it was 81. Not bad!

Now I have to re-trim the wall in the bedroom to accommodate the mini-split. I managed to break one of the tabs that hold the mini-split to the wall on the side the drain pipe exits. So its not perfectly flush on both sides of the wall, so that is really bothering me.

You can see where the foam expanded out of the wall and messed up my nice paint when I peeled it off, so now I have to fix that too. I used that expanded foam for windows and foamed the hole around the insert for the hoses to go through. My wall is funny in that it has studs vertically, but it also had a stud horizontally. I am not sure why, but I assume to hold the lath to the wall. So basically I have stud that is right at the line you can see from pulling the trim off. The top and bottom of the bracket were loose and bowing off the wall a bit, so I used expanding drywall anchors to hold those tabs in place. I have no fears of it falling off the wall, but I was very concerned about it rattling and vibrating. That was completely off base, as I can't tell the thing is running from 5 feet away and I have abnormally good hearing.

I have to re-do the trim and touch up the paint, but while I am at it I want to re-mount some speakers I have on the walls and a few other things to button up the master bedroom and finish up those outstanding projects that take so long to complete.

 

[mpire]

So the trim is fixed, the unit works like a champ, and I even touched up all the little spots in the master bedroom.

 

[mpire]

So tonight I moved the thermostat from upstairs to downstairs.

I ran about 50 feet of thermostat line from the inside unit, through the attic, down a chase, and finally through the wall and mounted it in the dining room in the center of the house. Then I realized I ran 18/5 instead of 18/6 that I needed. So I had to go get some 18/7 and taped that to the previous wire and pulled it all through. I swear I counted them, I just can't count more than 5 wires at a time I guess.

I found out one of the reasons my air flow was so poor. The previous owner had cut pieces of that fiberglass board insulation and stuffed it into the vents in the living room. Since my ceiling is 18 feet up in the air, I have never really checked it. Since I have the ladder for the mini-split, I figured it was a good time to adjust the vents, and when I get up there I realized they were sealed off. These are two large vents with 12" ducts going to them.

This is just plain stupid. I am doing way too much fixing lately. At least the remote control for the thermostat reaches it now.

 

[bigdav160]

Let us know if there are any energy savings.

I just made the same improvement. Our extra-large master bedroom is down and I hate cooling the entire lower floor just to keep the master cool at night. I was slightly under on the A/C tonnage anyway.

I installed a Sanyo 12k and hung the condenser unit on the wall. It works fantastic.

I did have one mishap. One of the flares must have had a burr. Lost all the refrigerant in one week. So I swagged the fittings and soldered them up.

Recharging 410a is a lot like a servicing a car. The refrigerant is weighed in. IHMO it's easier than monkeying around with superheat and subcooling measurements.

 

[paris_tj]

I just purchased a new 24k mini, and I was told it was pre charged for 15' of lineset, any more and I would need to get it topped off. Not sure if all are this way or not.

 

[Rosco]

I just purchased a new 24k mini, and I was told it was pre charged for 15' of lineset, any more and I would need to get it topped off. Not sure if all are this way or not.

My mitsu 18K unit was pre-charged for 25' of line set. All manufacturers are different, and I used 25' of line with no adjustments necessary. I paid extra for the servicing/leak check just to make sure and to cover the warrantee

 

[mpire]

It only cost me $79 to do the nitrogen fill and purge, and then to check for leaks and look the system over.

I think it was well worth it, plus it keeps my warranty valid.

It sure does keep the room cold. The wife has now decided that she prefers the room at 72 degrees. At this rate, she will be eating up any savings I might get from this thing.

 

[mpire]

Well, I have some actual numbers now. I called up the power company and they sent me a chart of my usage over the last 3 years.

So I think that it just might be making a noticeable difference.

If they read the meter on the 5th of every month, then the bill for this month is actually last month's usage. Took me a while to figure that out.

Any savings wouldn't actually show up until the June 2011 bill, since that would kick in half way through May's usage.

Month 2009 2010 2011

April 825 944 1115
May 1059 1080 1347
June 1318 1309 1380
July 1773 1872 1586
August 1679 2338 ????

So apparently I am consuming more power year over year. Probably because I have more stuff plugged in. I will have to do a better job of saving power. I do have lots more lights though.

However, there is a noticeable drop in usage comparing last July with this July. That would be the first full bill after I installed the unit.

Also, May of this year I used 267 kwh more than last year. June I dropped down to using only 71 kwh more than last year but I only had the new A/C installed for half the month.

In July my bill was a solid 286 kwh LESS than last year.

August is the hottest month of the year, and last year I sucked up 2338 kwh. It will be very interesting to compare it to the usage this year.

I have been home all month too, so the house a/c has been running.

I figure that if I shave off 286 kwh per month at $0.13182 then I saved myself $38 bucks this month.

 

[mpire]

So the math says that this A/C unit will pay for itself in 32 months, just under 3 years.

Now if I had just gotten the $875 LG unit that didn't look so pretty, it would have paid for itself in just 22 months.

So, that should just go to show you that being married costs a fortune.

I run the a/c at about 79-81 during the day, and at night the wife would always crank it down to 76 degrees because she likes sleeping in the cold. So that essentially meant that the whole house was getting a serious chill applied to it every night. Windows would have condensation on them in the mornings.

Overall I am much happier with this setup. I will definitely be looking into doing it again at the next house. I will probably take this A/C with me when I go.

 

[mpire]

Wait, after further calculation, I should double the savings because I wasn't taking into account the extra juice I have been burning all year. Its about 275 kwh more than last year on average. So if I double it, it makes me feel better.

So I am saving almost $80 bucks a month.

 

[mpire]

Edit

 

[mpire]

Resurrecting a dead thread here... but I just found out that the Mini-split that I bought qualifies for a $300 tax credit. How cool is that?

http://www.lghvac.com/img/main/taxcredit_homepage4.gif

So including my previous power savings and now I only have $885 left to break even.

The wife has also been working nights this month so she sleeps all day. So I am running the house A/C and the bedroom A/C at the same time. I bet that I could be saving even more.

I am getting into this whole savings thing.

 

[mpire]

Got another savings that I totally missed.

Because the SEER is so high, I get a $600 rebate from the power company.

So now that means I get a $300 tax credit, $600 power rebate, and its saving me $100 a month.

That means I will break even in less than 3 months.

This just gets better and better!

 

[mpire]

The actual bill came today for August.

$234.97 this year vs 324.49 last year.

1717 kwh this year vs 2338

That is a pretty mundane savings of about 90 bucks.

I can't figure out when they check the meter. I gotta work on that.

Thats 621 KWH less than last year.

I am also running more stuff, and the wife has been sleeping during the days too and running the mini-split non stop.

 

[mpire]

Since I know no one is actually following this thread anymore, I figured I would update it.

This months bill arrived.

1212 KWH used this month vs 2010 kwh used last month.

Total savings of 798 kwh x .13182 = $105.19

Also, I got my $600 rebate from the power company!

So now the A/C unit is making me money, and its only been a few months.

I can't comprehend why someone wouldn't buy one of these things.

 

[WVBrady]

I' still following it!

I am more interested in the heating aspect, but I would like to hear if you have any problems down the line or any other comments.

 

[green.bubbly]

I am still taging along as well. Great to see the savings. I am still considering the mini splits for my house I am about to start building but I still have some planning. To do the entire house in zones would cost a lot of money compared to a good central unit. But then i would have the benefit of only cooling the rooms I need.

I will probably go with a mix, a central unit for the living room, kitchen and landry room and a mini-split for the two bedrooms/bathrooms.

 

[green.bubbly]

I see two rates on your bill. Is that a day/night rate?

 

[green.bubbly]

Resurrecting a dead thread here... but I just found out that the Mini-split that I bought qualifies for a $300 tax credit. How cool is that?

http://www.lghvac.com/img/main/taxcredit_homepage4.gif

So including my previous power savings and now I only have $885 left to break even.

The wife has also been working nights this month so she sleeps all day. So I am running the house A/C and the bedroom A/C at the same time. I bet that I could be saving even more.

I am getting into this whole savings thing.

Correct link.


http://www.lghvac.com/upfile/pdf/LG_Manufacturer's_Tax Certification_Statement.pdf

 

[mpire]

Its a tiered price list.

I pay 11 cents for the first 1000 kwh, then 13 for the next and so on.

 

[green.bubbly]

Its a tiered price list.

I pay 11 cents for the first 1000 kwh, then 13 for the next and so on.

You should throw up a few solar panels to keep your usage below or near 1,000. Would not cost much with the federal tax rebates.

 

[mpire]

These last few months are always the hottest.

I expect to be below 1000 kwh next bill.

If I drop another 800 kwh over last year next month then I will be at 1001 kwh.

I will take the cat box off hot water and see if that helps any. I also might turn down the temp on my ancient water heater and see if I can squeeze it in under 1000 kwh.

 

[mpire]

Well, to continue this thread with unrelated info would be stupid. So of course I am going to do it.

The Bedroom A/C unit install was really just a dry run for the garage install. I wanted to see if it was actually worth it. Apparently its the only way to fly.

So now I am working on the garage system.

I picked up this LG unit on closeout for $1050 delivered.

Its an 18000 btu A/C only unit. It really doesn't get cold enough here to bother with heat in the garage. However it won't do me any good if I never get it installed.

Here it is when it arrived.

Another view of the indoor unit.

Outdoor unit.

This is where I am sticking the outdoor unit.

I moved the bushes and put in some 2x6s in the bed to frame in the concrete. Then I poured a couple bags down and then put two solid concrete blocks down because its easier for me to level those.

Then I filled the sides and the back leaving a space in the middle for the water to collect drain off and not sit next to the house.

The face comes off the unit so you can run the lines. So I hung the inside unit on the wall and cut a hole in the wall for the lines.

Then the copper was run through the wall, across the laundry room ceiling and then back outside again.

Copper is all run.

This is the bare copper outside.

Another of the outside unit in place.

This is the copper inside the laundry room.

I have several turns in the copper so that I can try to fit it in behind the crown molding I haven't installed yet.

So that is all I got tonight. Tomorrow I need to reinstall the insulation on the pipes, then run the power wire and the drain.

 

[green.bubbly]

Why not run the copper up into the attic then outdoors?


What is this hole for?

 

[mpire]

Why not run the copper up into the attic then outdoors?


What is this hole for?

That hole is feeding the power wire through the wall. It has already been filled.

 

[green.bubbly]

That indoor unit looks like a quality unit. My Chinese Klimaire unit is much more cheap looking.

 

[mpire]

I want to pretend that my air conditioners and my refrigerator and a couple of my TVs aren't ****, but I could be proven wrong.

So far I have given LG alot of my money.

 

[battmain]

Where did you find the insulation for the copper tubing?

 

[mpire]

Where did you find the insulation for the copper tubing?

It came with the insulation as part of the line-set package I ordered with the a/c.

 

[green.bubbly]

One thing I found out is that my unit does not like to drain well. The instructions warned against having an upward bend at the end of the drain tube. Even though it was 6 feet below the unit, it clearly warned against bending upwards.

I kinda laughed as I do not see how a slight upward bend would stop the flow. When I ran my drain, I had a slight uphill curve right at the bottom of the unit. To me, the water should still have drained as the tube was still lower than the trough. But by golly, the damn thing would not drain until I flattened out the small hump????


I tell you this because it looks like you may have a long drain run. I would test the drain well before you button everything up. They do sell a drain pump for many units if you need one.

 

[mpire]

I am using good old PVC pipe for the drain in the garage.

In the event it overflows, it will just drip on the garage floor, so that won't be a big deal.

I have to get all the angles right though, that is the current challenge.

 

[battmain]

It came with the insulation as part of the line-set package I ordered with the a/c.

Thanks, the line-sets just seem a bit overpriced to me. Especially when I can get a 50ft coil of both sizes needed for just about the same price as one lineset. Add in the insulation and again it seems I can get more. I guess I'm paying for convenience. ~$100 for a 15ft lineset.

One more question. My unit is here. Just need the incidentals now. Yah, that is an excuse to buy more tools.

What size arbor did you use for the hole saw? I found lots of carbide tipped hole saws, but the arbor is the fun part. It looks like I need at least 18 inches to go all the way through. At least that's what it looks like when I measure at the windows/door and include the drywall.

 

[mpire]

I found the wall to be hollow, so I just cut a hole on both sides. Cut the outside hole a little below the inside hole so the drain runs downhill.

The key is to do everything that an UN trained A/C guy would do. Or the **** work that his assistant or apprentice would do. I may have a college degree, but I can turn off my brain and become and excellent gopher.

Run the electrical and the refrigerant lines and set the heavy stuff in place.

 

[mpire]

Thanks, the line-sets just seem a bit overpriced to me. Especially when I can get a 50ft coil of both sizes needed for just about the same price as one lineset. Add in the insulation and again it seems I can get more. I guess I'm paying for convenience. ~$100 for a 15ft lineset.

I asked that question many times. I found the coil cheaper at home depot, and I asked that question above in the thread if you go all the way to the beginning. The difference was it came with the ends on (that I cut off) and it came pre-charged with nitrogen (that leaked out) and it was supposedly different. I think I was royally ripped off, however I went to the a/c supply store recommended by rick and it was about the same. I am sure the markup is considerable both places. So the answer is I have no idea, but by ordering the correct lineset with the unit, I will have a better argument if I have an issue.

One more question. My unit is here. Just need the incidentals now. Yah, that is an excuse to buy more tools.

I have the vacuum pump and I have the flare tools etc. Its going to be cheaper just to have the A/C guy do the final hook-up, nitrogen charge, and test than buying gauges etc. Plus you have to have a pro install it or you will have no warranty of any kind. My guy only charged me an hour service call.

What size arbor did you use for the hole saw? I found lots of carbide tipped hole saws, but the arbor is the fun part. It looks like I need at least 18 inches to go all the way through. At least that's what it looks like when I measure at the windows/door and include the drywall.

I bought the largest concrete hole saw I could get and HD. It was 2.5 inches. That was just fine for what I needed. Upstairs is just an inch of stucco over lath over OSB and then insulation and drywall, but the garage is an inch of stucco, then an inch or so of concrete, then a hollow space, then another inch of concrete followed by an inch of insulation and then drywall. I have a couple 18" drill bits that I have for drilling pilot holes that I have used for all sorts of things.

 

[mpire]

So here is the final result...

The mini-split unit is on its new pad, all mounted up. The lines have been hooked up and its cooling down the garage in a furious fashion.

The corregated drain hose they sent was a total waste of time and effort, so I ended up just using spare sprinkler line to hook it up. I am hoping the pipe cement I used holds on the flexible drain line. I don't see why it wont, but I will be watching it just in case.

The unit is blowing away, cooling down the garage for the first time as we speak. Its already down to 81 from 89. How cool is that?

It has flaps on the two sides and the bottom that open up and blow the cool air out. Also it has two fans, so it can run only one or both depending on cooling demands.

 

[mpire]

I cut down the line set cover, put the end cap on it, ******* the lines, and routed the drain line over to the same area as the main house unit. I caulked all the holes in the wall and put the clamps on the flex conduit to make sure it stays put.

I also replaced the pull out disconnect on the house unit and the conduit while I was at it so it all looks nice and clean.

Nitrogen pressure test, then vacuum down on his brand new gauges, and then we let the refrigerant out.

Strange how the mini-split doesn't have a high side gauge port so you can only look at the low side. I guess that is normal.

Total cost for hookup was $79, and of course I tipped him.