Mini-split A/C Shopping...

[green.bubbly]

That came out real nice mpire. I am happy with mine except it is too small but that is my fault. I really think I will be putting a couple of these units in my house when I get to that point of the construction. The China unit I put in my garage does not look particularly nice but I really like your indoor unit. I could see that hanging on my wall in my home.

And of course there is that proud "I did it myself" feeling.

 

[mpire]

Opened the power bill this morning.

Unfortunately, I am only down 364 kwh this month over last year. I am not sure what I did wrong, or maybe I saved an abnormal amount of money last month.

I am going to have to examine it a little more closely.

This month is 1437 kwh, vs last October bill of 1801.

So my worst month yet, the Mini-split saved me only $47

 

[mpire]

The China unit I put in my garage does not look particularly nice but I really like your indoor unit. I could see that hanging on my wall in my home.

Keep in mind I bought my units for PRICE and not for style or looks, but the wife did make me spend a bit more for the nicer LG unit because she is a woman and cares about aesthetics.

The small LG unit in the bedroom was picked because it came with the paperwork and certification that made it eligible for the rebates. The off brand units are a bit more trouble.

The second unit I bought straight up for price because it was on closeout. I haven't had it hooked up long enough to give a solid opinion on it, but I need to insulate the garage attic next to maximize cooling.

 

[green.bubbly]

Opened the power bill this morning.

Unfortunately, I am only down 364 kwh this month over last year. I am not sure what I did wrong, or maybe I saved an abnormal amount of money last month.

I am going to have to examine it a little more closely.

This month is 1437 kwh, vs last October bill of 1801.

So my worst month yet, the Mini-split saved me only $47

It is hard to compare one month to the same month last year. This may have been a unusually hot October where as last October may have been a little milder. And do you realize that 47 bucks/month is almost 600 bucks a year? That is not bad.

 

[mpire]

Yeah, I realize its still good. However, I was really liking the 80-100 savings on the really hot months, so maybe it won't be all that great of savings in the winter.

 

[mpire]

So now to the task of buttoning up the garage.

It appears that the door is bowed out, or the concrete lip is bowed in. I am trying to think up some alternatives, because my solutions haven't worked so far.

I replaced the seal a few years back when I bought the house but it didn't seal up very well in the middle. I figured it just wasn't thick enough.

I happened to find garage door seals on sale at home depot for a buck each, so I picked up a couple more. They apparently had been returns or lost the packaging, so they didn't even know what they were.

Anyways, so to make it thicker, I cut up some 1/4 inch pipe insulation that I had laying around and fed it into the seal as I pushed it on the door.

Now its a much thicker seal and it does compress when it hits the ground. However, this just amplifies the problem, or maybe it makes it easier to see.

Here is a pic with the sunlight peaking under the garage seal.

So now I go back to the catalog to try and figure out what I can do to get a seal on the bottom of the door.

The garage floor drops off about half an inch before the door seal makes contact.

I don't want to use a threshold on the floor to make contact, because that would make it harder to get the water/dirt out when washing the car in the garage.

 

[green.bubbly]

I would add a weatherstripping on the inside edge of the bottom of the door. Maybe something like in the pic below. Close the door and then screw it down while pushing it down to contact the concrete, bowing it where it needs to be lower. Hope that made sense.

 

[mpire]

I am going to have to go online, I can't find anything local.

 

[mpire]

I would add a weatherstripping on the inside edge of the bottom of the door. Maybe something like in the pic below. Close the door and then screw it down while pushing it down to contact the concrete, bowing it where it needs to be lower. Hope that made sense.

Everyone sells a kit for a regular 3 foot wide door, but no one sells them in 8 or 10 foot lengths.

Anyone know a place that sells these channel things in lengths long enough for a garage door?

I ordered a couple door bush seals from summit to give them a try for the sides and top. They were cheaper than just about everyone.

 

[mpire]

Brush seals arrived today. I installed one strip just to have a look at it. Looks like its going to keep the garage dark, and possibly even help seal up the garage doors.

 

[mpire]

Not that this is even remotely relevant, but it is all part of the process so I figured I would include it.

The wife decided she wanted a desk upstairs in her study instead of a couch, so rather than give the couch away, I decided to store it in the middle of the garage. Its very comfortable, that's for sure.

Now when I am tinkering, she comes out in the garage and sits and talks to me. It works out pretty well I guess.

 

[green.bubbly]

Now when I am tinkering, she comes out in the garage and sits and talks to me. It works out pretty well I guess.

Quick, get rid of that damn sofa.

 

[green.bubbly]

Brush seals arrived today. I installed one strip just to have a look at it. Looks like its going to keep the garage dark, and possibly even help seal up the garage doors.

Did you install it just on the inside of the door?

 

[mpire]

Did you install it just on the inside of the door?

Yeah, I have the brush seals on the inside of the door all around, and I have the flap seals on the outside of the garage door, so its sealed on both sides.

I am still trying to keep the cool in, and I am starting to doubt the insulation properties of the concrete block. I am tempted to put in a 1x2 sheetrock wall with insulation to see if that makes any difference. Not sure if its worth it for the few days a year I use the garage. The plan is to clean out the attic in the near future and blow cellulose insulation up there. I have to finish the attic air lines first though.

 

[mpire]

On another note, I am at 804 KWH usage last month.

My power bill is only $100.12!

How cool is that?

 

[Jackfre]

Glad this has worked out for you. thinking about your "higher" bill after reading your latest posts, I decided to go check my primary mshp. I keep up with it pretty well, but I was shocked at how dusty the filters were. Cleaned them and vacuumed off the top of the coil and this morning when I turned it on the outside temp was 22F, inside 60F. Within 5 min the heat pump was outputting 112f air. Keep in mind that with the inverter units, if the air flow is hindered in any way the unit will continue to run. It will just de-rate itself. I'm have a two week reminder to get a better sense of maintainance required.

I just spent a week removing 6" of the old driveway...dirt. I can't call it gravel. Put in a new 1 1/2" base and 3/4 top, rented a 4' vibrating roller to lock it in and have eliminated (fingers crossed) dust issues.

 

[antinym]

Pretty good, but how much were you running your AC in December? My bill was $110, I think it was only that low because I was gone for 2.5 weeks.

 

[mpire]

Pretty good, but how much were you running your AC in December? My bill was $110, I think it was only that low because I was gone for 2.5 weeks.

I work from home, and my wife works at night and sleeps during the day. So we are running the mini-split constantly. She gets cold easily.

The key point that people miss is the mini-split is running just about 24/7 and its still saving me boat loads of money.

 

[buzz4041]

How is the mini controlling humidity. As you are in Florida it is the same here in south Texas. This thread has been great and thanks for sharing.

 

[paris_tj]

I am in the Dallas area, and I have a 2 ton mini in a 30x40 shop. It does ok on humidity, but I have a 70 pint dehumidifier that I run all the time set at 50%, I go empty it's bucket about once every 1-3 days. Works great. Averages about $30 electricity a month to run it 24x7. It keeps my shop at 45-52% humidity all the time. For $179.99 you can't beat it in my opinion. Now the mini would have to run allot more so it would probably cost more.

 

[mpire]

Its not too good.

I am actually running a humidifier to keep it from being too dry in the master bedroom.

Overall though, the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

[buzz4041]

I am in the Dallas area, and I have a 2 ton mini in a 30x40 shop. It does ok on humidity, but I have a 70 pint dehumidifier that I run all the time set at 50%, I go empty it's bucket about once every 1-3 days. Works great. Averages about $30 electricity a month to run it 24x7. It keeps my shop at 45-52% humidity all the time. For $179.99 you can't beat it in my opinion. Now the mini would have to run allot more so it would probably cost more.

I have a dehumidifier also and it runs 24-7. Mine is piped to outside so no bucket to empty. It does a hell of a job at kepping the rust down since I put it in 3 years ago. Very good investment in my opinion. Only drawback is it currently sits on my workbench and eats up that space.

 

[mpire]

So the faceplate on the garage unit was peeling off. Apparently its not exactly a current model.

So they sent me a replacement faceplate in white as a warranty replacement.

So far so good with these LG people.

I guess my only regret is not getting a dual zone system so I could put an evaporator in my office. Then I would never even bother to run the A/C in the house at all.

 

[mpire]

Installed the new face plate today.

Looks pretty good and blends in well.

 

[green.bubbly]

Good to hear they back their products.

 

[mpire]

So I got the new incentives for 2012.

They no longer offer a $600 credit on any A/C. Now its tiered by tonnage.

My unit is too small to even qualify for a rebate now. 1 ton gets a $215 credit.

However, the credits for the larger systems are more. 18+ SEER 4 ton unit would qualify for $1010 energy credit.

Lets see how long my 12+ year old A/C system lasts. With all these credits, the 18 SEER is cheaper than the 16 SEER because the credit ($470) is less than half!

 

[1991Syclone]

Next project is to rewire whatever is running over that door frame... ;-)

 

[mpire]

Next project is to rewire whatever is running over that door frame... ;-)

That is the antenna for the stereo.

 

[1991Syclone]

Need to get the Philips Phile...

 

[mpire]

Well, it looks like my garage A/C is broken.

I haven't even used the damned thing yet except to test it out, and its not working for ****.

I put a temperature probe on it and its showing 89 degrees.

Overall garage temp is around 87.

I should be seeing some air coming out of the unit at least 80 degrees I figure.

So now I get to call LG and see what they say.

The liquid line is very cold to the touch, and I can hear the fluid flowing.

Time to check the sensor connections I guess.

 

[mpire]

So I have learned a few things.

Sean my intrepid A/C guy made a service call out today. He did another pressure test on everything except the compressor.

Then he did a sniffer test on the compressor unit and didn't seem to find any leaks.

The tire stem type opening on the line-set valve could be a little loose so he tightened that a couple turns.

It appears that the charge was just weak. Considering it was manufactured in 2006, I have to assume that the charge leaked out while in the warehouse waiting for me to buy it on closeout.

I assume that it just leaked out of the system. Sean added 19 oz to a system that only holds 31.8 oz. So somewhere I lost 2/3 of my refrigerant.

The service call cost me $80, and the 410 refrigerant cost me another $78.

If I were to add the $157 to the $1095 I paid for the garage unit, I could have gotten halfway to the newer 20.5 SEER unit.

The 1.5 ton version of the bedroom A/C unit is $1585.

So basically I saved $300 by going with the 13 SEER closeout model vs the 20.5 SEER current model, and I am thinking I should have just bought the larger unit in the same model line as the one in the bedroom that has worked so well.

Its blowing at 48 degrees, so I think its safe to assume that its working correctly for now.

I guess its now imperative that I get the gap under the garage door sealed up so I don't waste all this lovely cool garage air.

 

[Jackfre]

I'm heading to LA this weekend with an three yr old dual 24k unit for my daughters house. Two 12 high wall evaps. This unit has been out of production for a couple years, so fingers are crossed that I don't have the same issue with refrigerant loss as you. This dual unit comes in at 16.5 seer. Such a short attic space it should be a ball. I just don't bend into those spots as well...or as long.

 

[green.bubbly]

So basically I saved $300 by going with the 13 SEER closeout model vs the 20.5 SEER current model, and I am thinking I should have just bought the larger unit in the same model line as the one in the bedroom that has worked so well.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[mpire]

Just to give a little perspective now that we are finally getting into summer here in Florida.

Last year's May consumption was 1347 KWH

Today's bill just arrived and its 784 KWH

I haven't changed anything really except I am now running the mini-split in the bedroom exclusively at night but I am also running the mini-split in the garage more often than I had anticipated and its working great.

So that is a reduction of 563 kwh, plus I am keeping below the 1000 kwh mark, so I am only paying 10.7 cents per KWH instead of 13.

Approximately $73 savings on the power bill with the mini-split in the master. Thats only one month.

This little thing has been flawless since day one, and has not only paid for itself (with gov-mint cheeze) but it has also paid for the one in the garage too!

Amazing.

 

[Vern2]

Short Introduction

Thank's for updating your thread.

I was born in Orlando, but settled in Phoenix area after military. I'm retired now and enjoying life.

I've been following a few mini split threads when I can find them. I have 5 ton central air for main cooling in 2200 square ft home. Would like to spend more time in shop of 340 square ft. I'm running electrical conduit in a couple weeks. I'm one of you guys, I do every thing myself.

Below is my two room shop. Was thinking a dual split unit, in lite blue. I finally finished my 100 amp sub. Condenser on other side of wall in lite blue.

My Shop
Things you can check out:
1) Own your home for free.
2) Solar farm

Vern

 

[Jackfre]

Damn, Vern. If invited I could visit. I'll just sleep under the 3x6 metal table Nice layout! Depending upon how the place is insulated and glazing you could get by with an 18 k condenser and two 9k evaps, or a 24 with 2-12. I suspect you run a pretty clean shop even in operation and dirt is the one bugaboo with mshps in shops. I wouldn't hesitate to put the evaps on the end wall. The 'throw" on the 9 & 12 would be sufficient to handle the space. Most (will vary by manuf and model) of the smaller evaps will have only a vertical air sweep. Some will have 4 way, but check. For instance on my Fujitsu dual I have only vert on my dual 12's. On my single 25 seer it is 4 way. If you pout the evaps in the center of the room you may want that 4 way air sweep. You should start your own thread on this one!

 

[Vern2]

Thanks Jackfre,

That was my first post.

My wife and I, tried last weekend to bend 1" EMT. We could not do it. My resolution: Ordered last friday. JD2 Hydraulic Model 32 They have to make the die, so get it next week. You can see I already have a place in machine room for it.

I've always been able to draw, Things always look better if you can make it pretty. I've done the evaps thing, I won't go there again. A central air system runs full bore, when ever it's on. I'm hopping on a break with a mini split.

No glazing here. I do have an 8' x 7' garage door at the end of machine room. Shop is to the left of double garage door, below.

Only one problem, I'm not sure how to turn it off in the summer. Change the thermostat or flip the breaker?

 

[whatuusay1]

Vern - the Minisplit remotes/thermostats have a power on/off button - much like your traditional thermostat has off/heat/cool options. I just turn mine off when im not out in the garage (I only run mine in the summer when im out working on projects). In the winter i keep it on its lowest setting (65 i think) to keep the garage toasty. I too have had excellent bills - ie havent noticed an increase when using the minisplit both for heat/cool. I'll note that i did insulate the garage when i put it in so that might be helping as well. Regardless - the minisplits truely are an excellent option for a shop/garage. I paid just over 1600 for my LSN240HSV / LSU240HSV - LG 24,000 BTU 18.9 SEER unit ($1,300 after rebates).

My install thread is over here if interested --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121344

Based on where your installs going I'd second the recommendation to open your own thread

 

[Randy Forbes]

After deliberating, and listening to the local professionals, I opted for a conventional "apartment" unit. I was going to go with a ceiling mounted air-handler, but Guy #2 suggested this wall-hung unit. His reasoning being that it would be a lot easier to clean the (washable) filter element if it was within reach, and he was right, as I've already had to wash it about four (>4) times in three (<3) weeks! Probably the hottest day we've had so far has been 88*, and it runs for relatively short cycles, keeping the (1050 SF X 12'+ ceiling) interior at 75 to 77* (I've been leaning to the higher__77-78*__settings, but sometimes I just want it cooler). The building is cinder-block construction with foam injected (supposedly R9 value) cores, and I've used an R9 insulation kit on the metal garage door. I have one (1) circuit left to run through the attic, and I'll be calling for the crew to come back and insulate the ceiling next week.

All in all, I'm happy with my choice so far.

The filter after a few days in my (apparently) dirty shop!

 

[mpire]

Once you get all that Ohio weather out of your system, you will be able to keep it comfortably at 82 in the garage.