Mini split install -- EPA certification required or not?

[nealric]

As far as warranty is concerned: the Mr. Cool warranty cards on the back ask for HVAC technician cert number, not EPA. I imagine just putting EPA cert wouldn't do it.

As others have said, not sure the warranty is really more than $200 or so on an $800 unit.

 

[PoorOwner]

This is old, but I can't resist adding my $.02. Legally (federally but not locally),

If the unit is pre-charged (you're not adding refrigerant to the lines because you're under the maximum line length) and you just need to vacuum the lines, you're fine. Regardless of the legality, your warranty is VOID.

Any operation that could potentially discharge refrigerant, you're open to fines. You can legally buy R410a that is used in most mini-splits. This is for the purpose of resale or use by an EPA 608 Type 2 (or universal) certification holder. You can't legally recharge your own unit, pre-charge lines, etc.

I'm certified for Auto (609), but am also certifying for 608 to install my Gree Sapphire. It is pre-charged, my lines are 10', I have a micron gauge and vacuum pump, but I want to have a valid warranty. Hence, the $20.00 and hour of my time are worth it. If you can't pass the exam, you probably don't need to be touching AC to begin with (not a put-down, passing just requires listening to lectures or reading a book... Literally anyone can do this).

I am pretty sure it needs to be installed by a licensed HVAC installer (e.g. a business) to have the warranty honored. Certification is not same as License.

Not knocking the idea of basic EPA 608, it's good to have, but it does not automatically make the warranty valid.

 

[Jim greengo]

Local HVAC guys won't charge owner installed units. They want $2000 to install one. I am considering using ISO butane.

Sounds like a grenade getting ready to go off to me.

 

[Jim greengo]

Will your city/local inspector let you do the install yourself?

 

[rlitman]

I am pretty sure it needs to be installed by a licensed HVAC installer (e.g. a business) to have the warranty honored. Certification is not same as License...

The EPA issues a license. My state licenses barbers, but not HVAC installers.

edit: With regards to warranty, most companies only allow company certified installers. That usually means that the installer needs to guarantee a minimum amount of business with the wholesaler, and take a short course (or read a pamphlet or something like that) about what makes that particular brand oh so special.

 

[Jim greengo]

Most mechanical contractor licenses are issued by the city in places I've worked.
Electrical licenses are usually issued by a state,but some cities have their own license or registration.
Plumbing depends on where you're at,here in Nebraska my plumbing licenses are issued by differant cities.
But across the bridge in iowa I have a state plumbing license.

 

[jjrbus]

Warranty, smoreenty! How many have spent many thousands of dollars on used cars, trucks, golf carts, motorcycles, boats, ATV's with no warranty? How many have bought a house for over a $100,000 with no warranty?

Mitsubishi Mini Split Air Conditioners

Mitsubishi Mini Split Air Conditioners have NO WARRANTY if purchased online, try some of our brands and KEEP YOUR WARRANTY at a much lower cost. Why spend more for a system with no warranty? Our systems are of the highest quality, better prices, and you can buy with confidence knowing that you have a Mini Split system with a factory warranty. We strive to offer the best products possible at reasonable prices. We love saving money just as much as you do and wouldn't expect our customers to pay ridiculous prices just for a fancy name. Most of our mini splits are produced in the same factories as those other big names.

Most of the manufacturers have this disclaimer buried in the fine print!

https://www.minisplitwarehouse.com/page/mitsubishi-mini-split-air-conditioners

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I isn't an ozone issue. R410a doesn't damage the ozone layer.

It is because R410a (and R134a) are greenhouse gases.

No matter where you stand on the global warming issue, it is clear that freon release from amateur mini-split installers is not a significant contributor to atmospheric gasses. Just another example of your government screwing you.

Just my opinion, but refrigerant release in any form has a negligible effect on the atmosphere and environment. None of the banned CFC or HCFC refrigerants were ever proven to harm the ozone layer from the chlorine. Ever. The "hole in the ozone layer" was discover less than 60 years after those refrigerants were invented and the "scientists" say it takes hundreds of years for the refrigerant to get into the ozone layer. Do the math. The current theory is the "hole" has always been there and it's size varies and has always varied.
One volcano puts more chlorine into the atmosphere than every single chlorine containing refrigerant ever produced. Hell swimming pools dump chlorine liquid, dry chemical and gas directly into the water and it off gasses. No one makes them stop. The "greenhouse effect" is still mostly unproven, too. Remember when in 2006 the polar ice caps were supposed to have been completely melted by 2015, killing off the polar bears and the World Trade Center Memorial was to going to be under water in the next 20 years? The planet has a cyclical climate, it's nothing more than that.

Now, on the flip side, I will always follow the protocols and procedures. It doesn't hurt me to do so, and it certainly will not hurt the planet. We only get one.

Tommy

 

[metlmunchr]

Here's my thoughts on mini split installation and warranties. FWIW, I've been out of the business for 15 years but I still have an active unlimited HVAC contracting license as well as epa universal certification.

You aren't going to get a warranty on the equipment by having your own epa cert, nor are you going to get a warranty by having someone who's unlicensed but has an epa cert do the startup. Manufacturer warranty language is clear in the requirement of installation by a licensed contractor. EPA cert deals strictly with the handling of refrigerants and has nothing to do with knowledge or competence in installation or repair of HVAC equipment. Unfortunately, a contracting license is no guarantee of competence either, but it's what the manufacturers are looking for as a condition of warranty.

So, what do you get if you pay a licensed contractor a few hundred bucks to do the final hookup, evac, and startup of your unit? Not nearly as much as you might think. You now have a parts only warranty as the contractor isn't going to give you a labor and miscellaneous materials warranty on equipment he didn't sell.

Let's say your compressor croaks 2 or 3 years down the road. You get a "free" compressor. But, you'll pay for a trip to diagnose the problem and a trip to make the repair. You'll also pay for refrigerant reclaim, nitrogen, brazing supplies, general shop supplies, etc etc. Easy for this to exceed $600 to get your free compressor changed out. If it's a burnout, add a couple hundred more to that. At that point, between the money you paid for the pro startup and what you've paid for the repair, you've likely spent more than the initial purchase price of the entire system. Now do you get my point about the limited value of a warranty on relatively inexpensive things like a mini split?

My advice would be, if a warranty is a big concern, then just **** it up and pay the price for a turnkey job. And add an extended labor and materials warranty as a part of the job. That way, you'll know that there's nothing more to spend for X years.

OTOH, if you want to DIY, then add enough stuff to your tool collection to actually DIY the job rather than doing all the hard work yourself and paying someone to do the easy part of the job. You might spend a couple hundred more on the tools than you'd spend having someone do the checkout and startup, but the tools are an investment while the paid startup is just money that's gone forever.

In reality, the chance of having any interaction with the EPA over working on your own stuff is about 10X less than the chance of a meteorite falling on your head. I worked in the trade daily for a dozen years after epa cert became a requirement, and never encountered them, nor have I ever heard anyone else in the business say they've seen them either. If it's a big worry for you, then just take the test. It isn't difficult by any means.

 

[Showkey]

I do agree the meteorite risks ^^^^^^^^^

This permit, certification, warranty, danger or risks.........Comes up all the time? This is the GJ

Do you install your own water heater, add breaker, add a electrical circuit, run gas line to a drier, Install a furnace or fix a furnace, replace the garage door spring, service a well pump, install water softener, install a garage heater, service your vehicle AC system, do a brake job on the car ????

Some of this is the HVAC Industry trying to control the market. Online sales of Complete or sub systems and parts has changed the market place. Few years back it was impossible to difficult to buy a furnace or AC system. Now you can free next day FEDEX deliver to your door step.

Some brands still have tight control parts to the DIY.

Yes......it’s very very important to know your limitations........cuz you can kill your self, the whole family or burn down your home. Maybe even blow up the whole city block.

 

[Git]

Mitsubishi Mini Split Air Conditioners have NO WARRANTY if purchased online, try some of our brands and KEEP YOUR WARRANTY at a much lower cost. Why spend more for a system with no warranty? Our systems are of the highest quality, better prices, and you can buy with confidence knowing that you have a Mini Split system with a factory warranty. We strive to offer the best products possible at reasonable prices. We love saving money just as much as you do and wouldn't expect our customers to pay ridiculous prices just for a fancy name. Most of our mini splits are produced in the same factories as those other big names.

Most of the manufacturers have this disclaimer buried in the fine print!

https://www.minisplitwarehouse.com/page/mitsubishi-mini-split-air-conditioners

I purchased a Mr Slim 6 years ago from eComfort and paid a local Mitsu dealer to come out and get it started up. I then registered for the warranty online. but fortunately, I never had a problem and the warranty is now expired.

I just now checked the eComfort website and it seems that is still the way to go, IF you feel you need to have a warranty. Personally, I thought it was a good idea to have a professional/licensed contractor check my system over and get it up and running for $300. But I made sure I had a couple of contractors lined up to do the job before I purchased the equipment.