Minisplit garage questions

[bobkat]

Thanks for the response! Wow you have some really cheap electric! mine is around 13 cents/kwh. I am glad I went with the hyper heat model. Sounds like most are not happy with the performance of the standard model when expecting heat.
It seems a if my mini split is being delivered by bicycle as it is taking forever and only traveling GA to NY. I received parts from the UK recently that came quicker! Hoping this weekend I can rough it in.
I will let you all know my results. Fortunately, but unfortunately the coldest weather seems to be over so I wont know how well it performs with frigid weather.

Yep If i lived up north i would have done the hyper heat. but extreme cold for us 20-30 degrees is only few times fom dec to feb.. I installed the unit myself took me most of the day by myself, drilling thru brick. I waited to next day to **** down and leak ck. Have a friend who installs them as a business in another state. Has put in a bunch and only had a issue with one unit and was a bad board which they sent to him. I am happy with mine for what i paid. 50 deg is cold for me, at that temp I can take the shop from52=55 degrees to 72 in about one hour in auto mode . you can hit turbo mode and it is a lot quicker but uses some strip heating and spins the elec meter up. I have only used it one time

 

[u3b3rg33k]

something to remember: the delivered BTU numbers are based mostly on the temperature differential the unit is producing. so if you're heating to 50F, not 72F, you get MORE BTU/hr out of the unit at the same outside temp.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Hey guys! So I finally got my mini split after it being lost in the mail and have been slowly installing everything. So far it seems pretty easy. However, I am a little confused on some of the wiring and looking for a bit of help.
The signal wire (Indoor to outdoor wiring) is easy, 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc, easy
When wiring the outdoor unit I see L1 and L2, the live wires - black and red. I I then have neutral and ground left. There is a spot to install the ground wire but I would be connecting both the AC and DC grounds together. Is this okay? I have no where for the neutral wire to be installed, I am thinking of folding it back on itself.

I am thinking I only needed 10/2 here but since other appliances in my garage uses 10/3 I used 10/3 here instead of buying additional 10/2

The instructions aren't bad but also not great. thank you!

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Here is the inside unit installed. Doesn't look too bad!

 

[gmcgeo]

Hey guys! So I finally got my mini split after it being lost in the mail

I find it funny they lose a large package like this, lol

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Don't get me started! Not sure how they lose something like that either. But all is good. They ended up finding it un damaged. Only took an additional 3 days.

 

[SLAYER6669]

Hey guys! So I finally got my mini split after it being lost in the mail and have been slowly installing everything. So far it seems pretty easy. However, I am a little confused on some of the wiring and looking for a bit of help.
The signal wire (Indoor to outdoor wiring) is easy, 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc, easy
When wiring the outdoor unit I see L1 and L2, the live wires - black and red. I I then have neutral and ground left. There is a spot to install the ground wire but I would be connecting both the AC and DC grounds together. Is this okay? I have no where for the neutral wire to be installed, I am thinking of folding it back on itself.

I am thinking I only needed 10/2 here but since other appliances in my garage uses 10/3 I used 10/3 here instead of buying additional 10/2

The instructions aren't bad but also not great. thank you!

If you got the Senville Aura 24k then it is just 10/2 with ground that is needed. Can't hurt to have the extra wire ran in case you change to something else in the future that might need it.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

I think that was my thinking too. I think i also bought 100ft of 10/3 rather than 50ft and 25ft of 10/2 since it was cheaper or similar priced. Figured an extra wire may be beneficial. I wired up the shop long enough ago i forgot my reasoning for things!

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

Yup just fold the neutral and tape it up.
The ground wire for the indoor unit and the outdoor unit can both hookup to the same place. Sometimes there's 2 green screws side by side.

 

[mfa81]

I Just purchased my Senville SENA 24k BTU minisplit. Should be here in the upcoming weeks. Hoping I can do the majority of the installation and just have a tech out here to charge the lines/ verify the electrical to get my pro-installation warranty on the product.... I mean I sometimes like to think of myself as a Pro...

looks like you only need to vacuum the unit, it comes pre charged according to the manual. Looks like you can pick up the tools for ~$100 and DIY

 

[Toomanytools?]

Never heard of "Senville" , they look good specifications wise. Can't be that many manufacturers of units. I was quoted a 24K Daiken unit for my 24x48x11 shop so you should be good.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Yup just fold the neutral and tape it up.
The ground wire for the indoor unit and the outdoor unit can both hookup to the same place. Sometimes there's 2 green screws side by side.

I did a bunch of research and that is what I found thanks for the response!

looks like you only need to vacuum the unit, it comes pre charged according to the manual. Looks like you can pick up the tools for ~$100 and DIY

I would DIY the charge myself as I already have most of the equipment but I want the warranty

Never heard of "Senville" , they look good specifications wise. Can't be that many manufacturers of units. I was quoted a 24K Daiken unit for my 24x48x11 shop so you should be good.

I did some research on Senville and they seem to have good reviews and a good price...cant beat that! Now just time to charge the lines and see how she performs!

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Hey all another question for you all.

I am considering charging the system myself. I have, what i think would be, all the equipment. I have a vacuum pump, gauge, flow meter from doing carbon fiber work. I can pull the vacuum on the system and perform a vacuum drop test to ensure it is sealed.
Since the unit is precharged, once I am happy there are no leaks, I could release the charge myself.

Thoughts? The quotes I have been getting for doing this seem extremely high for literally only charging the system, 400-500 dollars. Am I missing something? I would not have a warranty if I do it myself but I could do it right away and free. After all, at 500 dollars that's 1/3 of the cost of the unit... If something were to happen, it is for my garage, not my home so not as big of a deal.

Would love to hear other's experience doing this if possible or from an HVAC guy.

Thanks all

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

If i were to do this myself and say the system leaked. What would get damaged? I would assume the compressor? Would this be replacing the compressor itself or the entire outdoor unit?
Trying to factor in my risk vs reward.

I am not against paying someone but at 400-500 it seems very expensive for what they are doing.

Thanks again!

 

[kelpaso1]

If i were to do this myself and say the system leaked. What would get damaged? I would assume the compressor? Would this be replacing the compressor itself or the entire outdoor unit?
Trying to factor in my risk vs reward.

I am not against paying someone but at 400-500 it seems very expensive for what they are doing.

Thanks again!

Wow they are trying to hose you. I had a guy install mine and charge it (came uncharged), and he charged me $300 all in.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

You will want to somehow pressure test the system before evacuating, then releasing the refrigerant.

Most of the newer inverter systems will let you know if the refrigerant change is low, before damage occurs.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

This would be the cheapest and easiest way to pressure test:

Co2 Cornelius Keg Charger (Genuine Innovations)

CO2 Keg Chargers and other kegging equipment are for sale at Adventures in Homebrewing. Use a handheld CO2 Keg Charger with your cornelius keg setup.

www.homebrewing.org

It will screw right onto the r410a adapter.
Co2 is a dry gas, and won't hurt the system for testing purposes.
You would then release that Co2, then evacuate the system once you confirm no leaks.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Hey all another question for you all.

I am considering charging the system myself. I have, what i think would be, all the equipment. I have a vacuum pump, gauge, flow meter from doing carbon fiber work. I can pull the vacuum on the system and perform a vacuum drop test to ensure it is sealed.
Since the unit is precharged, once I am happy there are no leaks, I could release the charge myself.

Thoughts? The quotes I have been getting for doing this seem extremely high for literally only charging the system, 400-500 dollars. Am I missing something? I would not have a warranty if I do it myself but I could do it right away and free. After all, at 500 dollars that's 1/3 of the cost of the unit... If something were to happen, it is for my garage, not my home so not as big of a deal.

Would love to hear other's experience doing this if possible or from an HVAC guy.

Thanks all

About 4 years ago, I installed a MRCOOL Advantage (non-DIY) 18k myself. Cut and flared the lines, then pressure tested using a cylinder of C25 shielding gas overnight. Next morning, I pulled vacuum, then released the charge. System is running like new to this day. It’s not rocket science. Yes, I gave up my warranty, but I never needed it.

Edited to add: My daughter had a professionally installed LG mini-split put in for an addition to her house. Two winters later, it wasn’t producing heat. Company that installed it said it had a small, difficult to find leak, and had lost sufficient charge to keep it from working. They recharged it and it worked normally again. So “professional installation” is no guarantee, either.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Wow they are trying to hose you. I had a guy install mine and charge it (came uncharged), and he charged me $300 all in.

Yea thats what I am thinking. I keep reading people paying 100 to 200 for the charge. I can deal paying that much

You will want to somehow pressure test the system before evacuating, then releasing the refrigerant.

Most of the newer inverter systems will let you know if the refrigerant change is low, before damage occurs.

From my reading it sounds like a lot of people get away with just a vac test. Knowing my luck....

This would be the cheapest and easiest way to pressure test:

Co2 Cornelius Keg Charger (Genuine Innovations)

CO2 Keg Chargers and other kegging equipment are for sale at Adventures in Homebrewing. Use a handheld CO2 Keg Charger with your cornelius keg setup.

www.homebrewing.org

It will screw right onto the r410a adapter.
Co2 is a dry gas, and won't hurt the system for testing purposes.
You would then release that Co2, then evacuate the system once you confirm no leaks.

Sweet thanks for linking that! gotta get a bit bigger of a CO2 canister though haha. Ill keep that in mind as I look into my options

About 4 years ago, I installed a MRCOOL Advantage (non-DIY) 18k myself. Cut and flared the lines, then pressure tested using a cylinder of C25 shielding gas overnight. Next morning, I pulled vacuum, then released the charge. System is running like new to this day. It’s not rocket science. Yes, I gave up my warranty, but I never needed it.

Edited to add: My daughter had a professionally installed LG mini-split put in for an addition to her house. Two winters later, it wasn’t producing heat. Company that installed it said it had a small, difficult to find leak, and had lost sufficient charge to keep it from working. They recharged it and it worked normally again. So “professional installation” is no guarantee, either.

Thanks for sharing your experience! where can you get C25? Airgas?

After calling numerous places, I found a HVAC tech thatll do it for 200 to 250 depending on time and he is generally available within a few days. I think I am going to go this route as I can swallow 250. I am sure this is more than it should cost but I am sick of calling around and having the warranty would help me sleep.

now time to finish the install! a tiny bit of wiring and some refrigerant line hookups.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

I suppose this can lead to my next question. I asked Senville (manufacturer) what to do with excess line. They informed me to spool it up and keep the spools so they are parallel with the ground to prevent an oil trap. this is easy to do but not sure how to secure the spool to the side of the building. Any ideas? I was thinking of leaving the spool on top of the condenser but that seems like an unfinished job...
I am going to build a little roof to protect the outdoor unit from snow/water maybe I could secure the spool on the underside of the roof?

This is on the backside of the building so looks does not matter at all. I am leaving the lines, wire, etc exposed other than the supplied wrap.

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

When I did mine, I shortened the lineset for a neater job, and to avoid having to curl the lines.
You probably could take the lineset to any mechanical shop or hvac place to have it cut and flared to length.
Add a few inches when you estimate the length of lineset needed so you don't come up short.

2 or 3 Co2 bulbs with the kegcharger above should get you enough pressure for a good pressure test.

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

When I did mine, I shortened the lineset for a neater job, and to avoid having to curl the lines.
You probably could take the lineset to any mechanical shop or hvac place to have it cut and flared to length.
Add a few inches when you estimate the length of lineset needed so you don't come up short.

2 or 3 Co2 bulbs with the kegcharger above should get you enough pressure for a good pressure test.

I thought about doing that as well but didn't want to have to buy a flaring tool. I spooled them up per the manufacturers recomendation, spools running parallel to the ground (Horizontal). This is on the back side of my building so no one will see it. If someone could see it I surely would make it neater.

Found a guy that will do it for 200-250 and can be here the day of the call (had to turn him down since I hadn't finished the install).

Wires are installed, refridgerant lines connected, and just some minor tidy work to finish up. However, lines could be charge and unit running while do so.

Thanks all for the help I will let you know how my 24k BTU Senville unit works once it gets fired up!

 

[Phuckin' Jim]

Excellent!
Don't forget to have that AC guy fill out and sign the warranty form.
You can then email it to Senville, along with your order number.

 

[theoldwizard1]

When wiring the outdoor unit I see L1 and L2, the live wires - black and red. I I then have neutral and ground left. There is a spot to install the ground wire but I would be connecting both the AC and DC grounds together. Is this okay? I have no where for the neutral wire to be installed, I am thinking of folding it back on itself.

It sounds like you bought the wrong wire ! You should have bought/installed 10/3 w/ground. Code typically requires a 120VAC outlet near the compressor for the service technician. Ground should run back to the box in the garage ?

WHAT DC ARE YOU REFERRING TO ?

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

It sounds like you bought the wrong wire ! You should have bought/installed 10/3 w/ground. Code typically requires a 120VAC outlet near the compressor for the service technician. Ground should run back to the box in the garage ?

WHAT DC ARE YOU REFERRING TO ?

I was told the signal wire was DC. I did use 10/3 for the entirety of it other than the supplied signal wire


HVAC guy came and charged the lines. It is so relieving to have heat in the barn. Now it is time to heat up that cold soaked concrete! So far so good. Hot air pumping into the shop and outside the cool air is blower out from the heat transfer. Also very very quiet!

 

[gmcgeo]

Hey all another question for you all.

I am considering charging the system myself. I have, what i think would be, all the equipment. I have a vacuum pump, gauge, flow meter from doing carbon fiber work. I can pull the vacuum on the system and perform a vacuum drop test to ensure it is sealed.
Since the unit is precharged, once I am happy there are no leaks, I could release the charge myself.

Thoughts? The quotes I have been getting for doing this seem extremely high for literally only charging the system, 400-500 dollars. Am I missing something? I would not have a warranty if I do it myself but I could do it right away and free. After all, at 500 dollars that's 1/3 of the cost of the unit... If something were to happen, it is for my garage, not my home so not as big of a deal.

Would love to hear other's experience doing this if possible or from an HVAC guy.

Thanks all

That price is not out of the realm for todays quotes. price of refrigerant is way up, labor cost also.

Can you do it cheaper? sure.... maybe about the same price adding all the equipment it takes to do the job correctly.
I would do it myself, but i also am certified.

 

[gmcgeo]

I was told the signal wire was DC. I did use 10/3 for the entirety of it other than the supplied signal wire


HVAC guy came and charged the lines. It is so relieving to have heat in the barn. Now it is time to heat up that cold soaked concrete! So far so good. Hot air pumping into the shop and outside the cool air is blower out from the heat transfer. Also very very quiet!

its nice when everything comes together and starts working out! just in time for spring! lol

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

That price is not out of the realm for todays quotes. price of refrigerant is way up, labor cost also.

Can you do it cheaper? sure.... maybe about the same price adding all the equipment it takes to do the job correctly.
I would do it myself, but i also am certified.

Yeah i thought it was the high side of fair. Also he did not have to add refrigerant since it was pre-charged or shouldn't have had too. I love doing things myself plus even if it costs the same I then have the tools for next time. in this case the warranty was worth not having tools.

its nice when everything comes together and starts working out! just in time for spring! lol

Yes a bit disappointing. hopefully itll cool down again for another week to test then im fine with spring being here. I can atleast look forward to staying cool in the summer!

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

So thought Id give you all an update. The unit has been working flawlessly for the past few days. My shop has been consistently at 68 deg.

My only gripe about the system is the app. I have the unit set to 68 but then there is an outside/inside temp display. outside will be outside temp (the weather) and inside is sometimes hotter or colder than what it is set at by 3 or 4 degrees. I am unsure if that is the temperature of the air coming out of the unit or if that is actually what the building is at. I think it may be the air that is coming out as the building seems relatively stable.

Now for some projects that i couldn't do in the cold like finish mudding the shop!

 

[TractorJeff]

Little late now, but I would have asked the Charge Tech if he could have shortened the lines. But coiling is Ok, as I look out eh window at the neighbors' coiled lines on his mini-split!

 

[BarnBuiltBeaters]

Little late now, but I would have asked the Charge Tech if he could have shortened the lines. But coiling is Ok, as I look out eh window at the neighbors' coiled lines on his mini-split!

Was worried he would charge me extra for that haha. Plus he would have to extract tge extra refridgerant from the system from my knowledge. This is on the back side of the house that faces the woods so no one will see it. It doesnt look tok bad i secured them and made them look a bit neater.

 

[Allanz]

Jetnow1, I also have a 24x30 garage. I'm looking at installing a mini split. What size is yours?

 

[pcmeiners]

"Sounds like most are not happy with the performance of the standard model when expecting heat."

Like most thing in life, do not expect your dreams of high performance to come to come true with the low priced models, possible, but it rarely happens in any part of life. Yes you pay more for the high end hyper temperature units initially, but the savings are much higher and the heat output is generally much higher. Also factor in the utility cost will rise substantially in the future.

Run this calculator with numbers from a low end minisplit and a high end low temp minisplit, 9k or 12k ( high efficiency 9k_approx. 33 SEER, HSPF 13.8) .

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/asset/document/ASHP_Sav_Calc.xls

"There is a spot to install the ground wire but I would be connecting both the AC and DC grounds together. Is this okay?"

You should have a ground wire from your inside unit, which is attached to the metal frame of the unit at some point, coming back, connected to the outside unit, continuity with the metal of the outside unit, with a ground from the power from the breaker box connected to the metal of the outside unit.


Raise the outside unit to average blizzard snow level if snow is an issue. Also, if your minisplit have openings which could allow 4 legged creatures to make a condo in your outside unit stuff the opening with rodent resistant material; on Ebay I purchased copper mesh for (2) of my vulnerable units, as rodent urine will easily kill electronic boards.

"Am I missing something? I would not have a warranty if I do it myself but I could do it right away and free."

Consider the warranty does not guarantee a speedy parts replacement. If you do not do the warranty parts replacement repair, labor is NOT included (most of the time). If you were to have a warranty, the labor cost could be close to replacing the inside or the outside unit. Basically a warranty can be useless anyway.
Personally I have Fujitsu units, I have a EPA 608 universal license, I used that to fill out my warranty info, Fujitsu sent back that the units are registered; have to say my state and county do not have licenses for contractors/HVAC, sometimes a provision in warranties. Will I have trouble in the future for warranty parts? Maybe, but I doubt it. Lastly getting your EPA 608 is not very difficult or expensive.

"Thanks for the response! Wow you have some really cheap electric! mine is around 13 cents/kwh. I am glad I went with the hyper heat model."

If you think $.13/kw is bad check out big city rate, such as San Francisco .

My 30x36 garage, average insulation, 2 windows, 2 garage doors is on a 12k low temp, highly efficient unit. It can easily keep up at >-7 degrees at at >102 degrees...actually it is over sized, a 9k unit could do my garage. Added less than $10 to my bill/month at $.11/kw

"having the warranty would help me sleep."

Wait till you get the labor bill on a warranty repair, you may not sleep well after all.

 

[WildBill]

Jetnow1, I also have a 24x30 garage. I'm looking at installing a mini split. What size is yours?

I use a 24k DIY Mr.Cool unit in an uninsulated (just thin foil radiant barrier) 24x36 metal shop, works great in WA, currently just below freezing at night but maintains whatever temp I want. Has been below zero a couple times last year and still worked OK. I would guess an 18k would be fine for that size with any sort of insulation.

 

[boneill1292]

I am in central KY and have a Senville 18K (SENA not SENL) hyper heat with ceiling cassette in a stick frame 24x36x10. Into second year. I worried that it would turn out too small based on what others here as well as Mr Cool and Senville but I must say that would have been a mistake. The 18K just cruises year round. On the coldest days even after backing car out and closing the door the temps return to normal quickly and stay put. It is just perfect. I have r30 ceiling, r15 walls and good seal with insulated doors, 16x8 and 10x8 plus man door and 4 double pane windows.
Yes you need it to be big enough but all the oversizing just to be safe just makes it less ideal.

I went with the smaller one thinking I will just not let myself be upset if on some occasional really hot or cold days it just doesn’t hack it.

I expect that if my doors were not in good shape or if windows were not good or if a few air leaks built in, the 24k would have been needed.

hope this helps.

This is good news! i'm looking at the exact same model. I dont have enough juice to get the 24k model even tho these days it's only 100 bucks more. Kinda *****, but I dont think its gonna be in the budget right now to trench a new line. I only have 2x4 walls and R13 but my garage is also smaller. Will be insulating the door.