Minisplit pricing... geez

[Hubmonkey]

A little background... I have a 24x36 pole barn that I have put up stud walls on the perimeter and r-13 bat insulation. The top of the plates are 12 foot and the peak is about 14 foot. I still need to insulate (already have double bubble) the ceiling and plan to do that with vinyl backed insulation. My plan all along was to do a minisplit as they are efficient and more affordable than a full on HVAC system. There are no internal walls as it is open space and want to keep it that way. I have done the online calculators and determined for my shop I need a 18k BTU mini split. I started calling around to get bids and WOW am I floored by the pricing I have received...

First Bid was from our builder's guy who does his HVAC in his current builds.

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini split $3974.00

Second bid from a HVAC company

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini Split $4900.00

2 Ton Daikin Mini Split $4530.00

PTAC Was recomended to "Save on Costs" and he quoted me $2583.00 and that is if I do the electrical and cut the hole and build the frame (NO WAY!)

Third Bid from another HVAC Comany

2.5 ton Mitsubishi (his calculations not mine) $7200

2 Ton Lennox (he said they are a bit cheaper) $5900

I told all of them I am not set on a Mitsubishi and needed a lower bid.. they are not having that at all...

Looking online I see the pricing for the units and wow they are trying to smash a grand slam on a minisplit.

Hub

 

[PoorOwner]

https://www.costco.com/Mr-Cool-DIY-24K-BTU-Mini-Split-Heat-Pump-with-WIFI.product.100409845.html

$1299 + $100 shipping

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

Installing one is pretty simple and doesn't take long at all. Hang the indoor unit, set the outdoor unit, connect signal cable and the lineset between the two, connect power to the outdoor unit, enjoy cool air. The only scary part is opening that hole in the wall. Measure, then measure again, then get after it with the hole saw.

 

[PoorOwner]

Installing one is pretty simple and doesn't take long at all. Hang the indoor unit, set the outdoor unit, connect signal cable and the lineset between the two, connect power to the outdoor unit, enjoy cool air. The only scary part is opening that hole in the wall. Measure, then measure again, then get after it with the hole saw.

Having installed mine in a bedroom on the second floor (18 feet). It took me probably about 16 hours working on multiple days. Things like drilling and mounting lineset covers on the stucco, sealing up every screw head, gluing up a PVC drain run, mounting condenser to the slab finally climbing up one last time to put 2 coats of paint on the cover. etc. It's a series of small, mechanical tasks before counting the time to start up the unit. Maybe if you are a tradesman already you get this kind of things done super quick.

So having been doing a couple on my own, I do have some respect on what professional charge, but only "worth it" if they do a super clean job, like the ones I see members here do on their own.

Considering the first guy for $4000 and the unit is $2600 on the biggest internet retailer lineset cost not included yet, I would jump on that quote if he has a license and you get a warranty on the machine.

 

[rattle_snake]

Those quotes seem very high (more than 2x what i paid, but I did the electrical and ran lines). How long/complicated is wiring run? Lineset length?

 

[fasteddie]

Or you could frame in a 24K window/wall unit for $500-$600. They're a lot more reliable IMO.

 

[MrSurly]

You are running up against the same issue that helped me decide to simply install a 2-ton “window unit”. I went with a used one and installed myself, but I’d bet you could get a brand new one *installed* for a grand.

Yeah, SEER, yeah yeah, efficiency, oh, yeah “MS pays for itself” (won’t).

Just something to consider.
30/40/14 w/foam and I can cool it with 24K in Texas.
I can’t understand (really) spending 4-5 grand on a mini split.

I mean, get a price on a conventional
“Central air” unit with a simple directional output on the air handler, just for grins. I’d be curious what you’d find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fordman7795]

Or you could frame in a 24K window/wall unit for $500-$600. They're a lot more reliable IMO.

ThaTs what I did. I found my ac on clearance for $150 about 3 years before I broke ground on my barn.

 

[fnbadaz06]

I know it's not the norm, but I purchased a new Mirage 12K BTU 110v unit from a local online auction site, and won the bid at $360.00 I mounted the air handler, ran the refrigerant, control, and drain lines, cut the opening in the exterior wall, all myself. I then had a HVAC company connect, pressurize, test, and release/charge the lines withe the R419A that was pre-installed in the compressor unit. My electrician friend ran me 34' of conduit with 10 gauge in case I ever upgrade the unit with a larger 220v version. All in all, I'm in it less than $1000.00. I ran it all night last night in my 24x20 garage which has 9' ceilings to test out how well it will cool.....outside air temps in the low 100's. It dropped the air temps in the garage to 69*-74*

I have no insulation on either garage exterior wall, and insulated my west facing garage door last week with supplies sourced from Lowe's. without any cooling what so ever, and 115* outside ambient temps, the garage never got over 98* , so I knew my little 12K BTU unit should do OK for what my needs are.

36.5* straight from the air handler !!!!!

 

[Hubmonkey]

Those quotes seem very high (more than 2x what i paid, but I did the electrical and ran lines). How long/complicated is wiring run? Lineset length?

I made it as easy as possible the wall where the electric comes in is not completed (stud frame, insulation and sheet rock) yet and I have left the sheet rock of the wall I want it mounted to so the electric can be run really easily. I would need a 15' line set.

Hub

 

[Hubmonkey]

Or you could frame in a 24K window/wall unit for $500-$600. They're a lot more reliable IMO.

Yeah but I would have to cut a hole in the wall as all my windows are 3x3 and only open to 13.5"...

Trying to avoid cutting a huge hole in the wall..

 

[finn]

Those pr.ices aren’t out of line for an installed 2 ton Mitsubishi.

I paid a shade over $7000, installed, for two Hyper Heat 22 seer units, a 12k and an 18k, in two buildings.

The contractor sent a fully equipped van, with two younger guys over to do the lineset, drain, electrical, pad, hangers, and drill the holes. It took them the better part of a day for the first one, and a little less for the second one, but not enough less to start another job that day.

I figure the installation was about $1000 each, and probably worth it.

In my case, I was replacing electric heat, so there is. $1500 utility efficiency program rebate on each unit, so it was worth it to have them installed professionally.

I have a three head non-hyper in my house that cost around $7000 five years or so ago.

 

[Falcon67]

https://www.costco.com/Mr-Cool-DIY-24K-BTU-Mini-Split-Heat-Pump-with-WIFI.product.100409845.html

$1299 + $100 shipping

Under $1K

https://iwae.com/shop/24k-btu-16-se...IG_dHWn28Pj6VxaG99nmVDWcfadZ0yuxoCICsQAvD_BwE

Agree with above - get a window unit, frame in wall - done for $600ish. The larger units are easy as the main chassis usually can slide out of the case, making for an easy framing of the case. I used as 12K in my old 20x24 shop. That was in 1999 and it's still running for the new owners.

 

[Lonnies Performance]

I just bought Daikin 30,000 BTU 17.5 SEER units for about $2300 ea. at AC Wholesalers.

The 24,000 BTU 18 SEER are only $1851.

Turn-key wiring/tubing by an experienced person should be possible to complete in about 1 day. It took me 2 long days over a weekend to install 2 units with tubing completely concealed in the wall & wiring in EMT (I like doing things the hard/neat way). Figure your labor costs accordingly.

For $2,000+/day, I would strongly consider quiting my day job to install these.

 

[justinjoyal]

For $2,000+/day, I would strongly consider quiting my day job to install these.

Of course the service truck, the tools, the refrigerant, the lineset and accessories. the insurance, the licence, the warranty, etc. are all free...

/sarcasm


OP: 3900$ for a 2-ton Mitsubishi seems like a fair price. Gotta pay for the brand name...

In your situation, I would try to find a reputable installer who sells less expensive units.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

I agree the quote for the Mitsubishi is fair, some of the other bids...not so much.

I experienced this first hand as well, Daikin mini split that was about $1,300 delivered, guy wanted about $6,000 out the door installed. Very straightforward install, nothing elaborate at all. So around $600 an hour.

I think much of it is installers not really wanting to do them because of lack of familiarity and trying to nudge people into a conventional split heat pump.

 

[yeldogt]

4k for the mitsubishi is about the norm --- I paid about 12k for my last three head unit and all the controls .. including 10 year warranty. Took them three days --

The DIY units have a lot going for them if your not in a severe situation -- your not getting the latest technology ... close. They would have to run a lot to have it be a factor.

If you have the ability to get someone to do the connections -- that's a way to go also. In some areas that's not as easy as it sounds.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you just want A/C the lowest installation cost is a couple of window units ! Not necessarily the lowest cost of operation.

PTACS are notoriously inefficient, especially on heating. Most rely on a heat strip for temps below freezing.

Mitsubishi sells several different models. You have to check the model number to be sure you are getting an apples-to-apples comparison. If you want heat down to below 0F, you need a HyperHeat model. You are going to need 1 or more fans to try to get even heat/cool distribution.

 

[yeldogt]

Single point heat and cooling sources work in well insulated open spaces -- 800-900sf is no problem at all if the space is tight.

The issue with many garages is the poorly insulated and leaking doors -- it's not going to be cool if you want to work by the door and the unit is 36' away.

Since AC is as much about humidity as temp -- I have never had a problem with single source. That's not to say a fully ducted system is not great

With the cost of the DIY -- I'm almost set on doing two small units at opposite ends of my space

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a three head non-hyper in my house that cost around $7000 five years or so ago.

What is your other heat source ?

 

[Lonnies Performance]

I just put 4 single zone mini-splits in my garage. I realize a ducted heat pump may have had better distribution, but in the long run it works very well & offers a high SEER rating, plus no AUX heating coils to power.

It came out much cheaper than running a bunch of ductwork & looks a lot neater.

 

[Voi]

I got a few mini split bids for my 640 square foot cabin.

The cheapest Mitsubishi bid I got was $5000 for a two ton, non hyper heat.

Another guy gave me two separate bids. One was for a two ton, non hyper heat at 6k. He also bid me a three head hyper heat at $12,600 but it was going to be 13k if he ran the wire. I think one of those heads was not your standard wall head. Not a ceiling cassette either but maybe a baseboard type head designed to go low to the floor, which I thought would be nice for our loft area.

Got three Fujitsu bids all under 4k. Went with a single head 18K unit for $3100.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I just put 4 single zone mini-splits in my garage. I realize a ducted heat pump may have had better distribution, but in the long run it works very well & offers a high SEER rating, plus no AUX heating coils to power.

It came out much cheaper than running a bunch of ductwork & looks a lot neater.

That is very surprising !

What size is the garage ? One big room or multiple ? Are the units "slaved" together ?

 

[Lonnies Performance]

70 x 96 & it's 1 big room.

I installed 2 30,000BTU units on each end wall.

Units are individual single zone units & not slaved together.

Plan is to run 1 on each end under normal situations & only use 3 or 4 when I need to drop temperature at a quicker rate or when outdoor conditions are excessive.

4 smaller units offered higher SEER ratings, more turn-down & greater flexibility than 2 larger units.

 

[Ohmthis]

The bids you got aren’t too far off. The equipment costs are only one part of the equation. I won’t get too far into this as it usually starts some ****. Keep in mind each area has different labor rates as well as taxes and insurance. The companies are in business to make money and I’ll leave it at that. Ask around for lower priced options. Mitsubishi is to me the one of the top three mini-split manufacturers. So you are also paying a premium there. Fujitsu and Daikin are the other heavyweights. There are always different tiers of equipment, so just ask for more options. Good luck!

 

[eddieK]

A little background... I have a 24x36 pole barn that I have put up stud walls on the perimeter and r-13 bat insulation. The top of the plates are 12 foot and the peak is about 14 foot. I still need to insulate (already have double bubble) the ceiling and plan to do that with vinyl backed insulation. My plan all along was to do a minisplit as they are efficient and more affordable than a full on HVAC system. There are no internal walls as it is open space and want to keep it that way. I have done the online calculators and determined for my shop I need a 18k BTU mini split. I started calling around to get bids and WOW am I floored by the pricing I have received...

First Bid was from our builder's guy who does his HVAC in his current builds.

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini split $3974.00

Second bid from a HVAC company

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini Split $4900.00

2 Ton Daikin Mini Split $4530.00

PTAC Was recomended to "Save on Costs" and he quoted me $2583.00 and that is if I do the electrical and cut the hole and build the frame (NO WAY!)

Third Bid from another HVAC Comany

2.5 ton Mitsubishi (his calculations not mine) $7200

2 Ton Lennox (he said they are a bit cheaper) $5900

I told all of them I am not set on a Mitsubishi and needed a lower bid.. they are not having that at all...

Looking online I see the pricing for the units and wow they are trying to smash a grand slam on a minisplit.

Hub

That first quote, if it is a 16 SEER model is spot on.

Nobody is attempting to "hit a Grand Slam". The exceptionally high bid was the SEER the same? Probably not. Sometimes when bidding you get a nagging feeling the only way this person is going to remain pleased is if the unit is top of line, which means higher cost. Additional figures are added to be sure enough attention to detail and cleanliness is covered, including managing. Some customers cost more than others.

Also bid the labor portion high enough to dot every i and cross every t. Expect questions and hovering all along the way and maybe one of those "while you're there" favors...

Really high bids (not saying these are) sometimes happen because you are too busy (too much work to add a picky client) or you may just get this feeling about a potential client, there are just some people that may cost you more than the project is worth. You can't always just decline the project, you price it high enough so that the Client gets to say no. If you do get the job, you know you have adequately covered expenses.

These are units that when installed correctly provide years of reliable service without intermittent problems, without serious problems requiring replacement because service is more. Do it yourself brands are pretty much disposable. None have been in the field long enough to know how they will last without a proper evacuation procedure...again they are cheaper to replace than repair.

I'm guessing that SEER values on these are different. All are quality, HB verses Snap-On quality difference. Plenty of customers do not value a companies time either...or value the laborers time. Quality employees with adequate benefits are not cheap and should not be.

I suggest you get a do it yourself and put it in...remember you have weeks or even months to do it...as opposed to one day or maybe 1 1/2...to keep the company schedule.

“The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.”

 

[eddieK]

You are running up against the same issue that helped me decide to simply install a 2-ton “window unit”. I went with a used one and installed myself, but I’d bet you could get a brand new one *installed* for a grand.

Yeah, SEER, yeah yeah, efficiency, oh, yeah “MS pays for itself” (won’t).

Just something to consider.
30/40/14 w/foam and I can cool it with 24K in Texas.
I can’t understand (really) spending 4-5 grand on a mini split.

I mean, get a price on a conventional
“Central air” unit with a simple directional output on the air handler, just for grins. I’d be curious what you’d find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You'll find somewhere between 6k and 10k depending on a lot of factors.

 

[eddieK]

I made it as easy as possible the wall where the electric comes in is not completed (stud frame, insulation and sheet rock) yet and I have left the sheet rock of the wall I want it mounted to so the electric can be run really easily. I would need a 15' line set.

Hub

What are they supposed to mount it on if the wall is not got gypsum on it? They are designed to be installed on a finished wall...there is rarely a good reason to "rough" one in...and that creates additional job trips. Electrical could be open in another stud bay.

Routing the piping in the wall verses right down outside is much more labor intensive and creates problems when you attempt to snap the head in place, drain problems and head staying seated problems. To alleviate this and ensure no problems more detailed work figures are added to the total equation.

 

[Hubmonkey]

What are they supposed to mount it on if the wall is not got gypsum on it? Electrical could be open in another stud bay.

Routing the piping in the wall verses right down outside is much more labor intensive and creates problems when you attempt to snap the head in place, drain problems and head staying seated problems. To alleviate this and ensure no problems more detailed work figures are added to the total equation.

Guess I should have been a little more clear about my description... It is a normal 16" on Center Stud wall that I have not hung sheet rock on yet but has the insulation in it except for one stud bay that I plan to run the electrical in. So routing piping and electrical is a non issue as it is as open as the outside is. I can hang sheet rock on that wall in less than 30 minutes.

 

[eddieK]

Guess I should have been a little more clear about my description... It is a normal 16" on Center Stud wall that I have not hung sheet rock on yet but has the insulation in it except for one stud bay that I plan to run the electrical in. So routing piping and electrical is a non issue as it is as open as the outside is. I can hang sheet rock on that wall in less than 30 minutes.

Are you wanting the line set and drain in the wall? That is a more extensive install... higher cost.

The electrical is ONLY provided to the outdoor unit, the indoor is powered from the outdoor unit, part of the "line set" bundle.

 

[finn]

No matter how you cut it, an average installation is probably the better part of a day for two experienced guys. They still get paid for a full day if you make their job a little easier, or not.

Some installations are a little more time consuming, so those make up for the easy ones.

It’s not like if they finish your job in 7 hours instead of 8, they can travel to the shop, pick up the next unit, and start another installation that same day.

 

[James-W]

Yeah but I would have to cut a hole in the wall as all my windows are 3x3 and only open to 13.5"...

Trying to avoid cutting a huge hole in the wall.

I guess you will have to make a decision on this. You can cut a hole in the wall, frame it out for a window type air-conditioner, and install a $600 unit, or you can spend several thousand dollars for a mini split. Take your pick. It is all in what your priorities are.

 

[therest]

I know it's not the norm, but I purchased a new Mirage 12K BTU 110v unit from a local online auction site, and won the bid at $360.00 I mounted the air handler, ran the refrigerant, control, and drain lines, cut the opening in the exterior wall, all myself. I then had a HVAC company connect, pressurize, test, and release/charge the lines withe the R419A that was pre-installed in the compressor unit. My electrician friend ran me 34' of conduit with 10 gauge in case I ever upgrade the unit with a larger 220v version. All in all, I'm in it less than $1000.00. I ran it all night last night in my 24x20 garage which has 9' ceilings to test out how well it will cool.....outside air temps in the low 100's. It dropped the air temps in the garage to 69*-74*

I have no insulation on either garage exterior wall, and insulated my west facing garage door last week with supplies sourced from Lowe's. without any cooling what so ever, and 115* outside ambient temps, the garage never got over 98* , so I knew my little 12K BTU unit should do OK for what my needs are.

36.5* straight from the air handler !!!!!

Which Mirage model is this specifically?

 

[justinjoyal]

No matter how you cut it, an average installation is probably the better part of a day for two experienced guys. They still get paid for a full day if you make their job a little easier, or not.

Some installations are a little more time consuming, so those make up for the easy ones.

It’s not like if they finish your job in 7 hours instead of 8, they can travel to the shop, pick up the next unit, and start another installation that same day.

The average installation of a single head mini-split takes us ~4h (2 guys.)

We complete some of the simpler installs in less than 3 hours.

Of course multizones systems take a bit longer (5-6 hours) and some installs require running lines through attics and such, so we can spend the whole day there sometimes.

 

[fnbadaz06]

Which Mirage model is this specifically?

EMC120J

 

[therest]

EMC120J

Thanks! You got a heck of a deal!

Although I know this doesn't apply to most people, but I plan on having family buy my mini split in Mexico. I was able to find a Mirage 1 ton 220v unit for about $420 give or take. Rotary mini splits are still very common over there, but this one is the inverter type.

 

[finn]

The average installation of a single head mini-split takes us ~4h (2 guys.)

We complete some of the simpler installs in less than 3 hours.

Of course multizones systems take a bit longer (5-6 hours) and some installs require running lines through attics and such, so we can spend the whole day there sometimes.

Does that 4 hours include travel time, stocking the truck, etc?

How many installs do those two guys do in a shift?

The two guys that din my installations arrived at 9:30 and were gone at about 3:00. I didn’t hover over them, but they seemed pretty efficient. They had to drill through a block wall and run electric lines through the basement ceiling about 65 feet. The house is about 35 minutes from their shop.

The job took long enough that i’m Pretty sure the boss paid them both for a full 8 hour day.

 

[1969]

Info for later......

 

[eddieK]

Does that 4 hours include travel time, stocking the truck, etc?

How many installs do those two guys do in a shift?

The two guys that din my installations arrived at 9:30 and were gone at about 3:00. I didn’t hover over them, but they seemed pretty efficient. They had to drill through a block wall and run electric lines through the basement ceiling about 65 feet. The house is about 35 minutes from their shop.

The job took long enough that i’m Pretty sure the boss paid them both for a full 8 hour day.

On average you can add two hours to the start time, start at the shop for parts then the supplier for equip etc...travel. Most likely after the project travel time and maybe more shop time - paper work etc.

 

[Beauness]

A little background... I have a 24x36 pole barn that I have put up stud walls on the perimeter and r-13 bat insulation. The top of the plates are 12 foot and the peak is about 14 foot. I still need to insulate (already have double bubble) the ceiling and plan to do that with vinyl backed insulation. My plan all along was to do a minisplit as they are efficient and more affordable than a full on HVAC system. There are no internal walls as it is open space and want to keep it that way. I have done the online calculators and determined for my shop I need a 18k BTU mini split. I started calling around to get bids and WOW am I floored by the pricing I have received...

First Bid was from our builder's guy who does his HVAC in his current builds.

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini split $3974.00

Second bid from a HVAC company

2 Ton Mitsubishi mini Split $4900.00

2 Ton Daikin Mini Split $4530.00

PTAC Was recomended to "Save on Costs" and he quoted me $2583.00 and that is if I do the electrical and cut the hole and build the frame (NO WAY!)

Third Bid from another HVAC Comany

2.5 ton Mitsubishi (his calculations not mine) $7200

2 Ton Lennox (he said they are a bit cheaper) $5900

I told all of them I am not set on a Mitsubishi and needed a lower bid.. they are not having that at all...

Looking online I see the pricing for the units and wow they are trying to smash a grand slam on a minisplit.

Hub

The cheapest 2 ton Mitsubishi I could find was 1,950 ...the cheapest! depending on your location you should have a mech license, especially if your not sure how to use refrigerant.(or if you care about your environment) Also you should understand that your HVAC contractor as well as you electrician should be licensed and insured, and if they don't show up alone they should be matching tax deductions and carrying workman's comp for each employee. if they are not assholes they should also offer some kind of health insurance for their employees and a warranty for you...the consumer. I could go on for a while here , especially if your talking to a GC on any other kind of middleman. Point is please understand that if you took the low bids then the company you choose to work with is not smart enough or just haven't learned yet that they are loosing money. If you go with the higher price point everything should be handled for you with no worrying, but your contractor probably only profits maybe $500-750 after taxes if he is filing his taxes properly. The money you should be concerned about is not going to your contractor!