Model T Ford Wrenches?

[Spjuggalo]

I have tried looking into these 2 i bought for maybe $4 total the double open end has a small M stamp an inch or 2 from one end, the adjustable wrench has on the Ford USA stamp on one side, thinking i may hold them an collect the whole tool kit lol

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The m i think is for moore drop forge

 

[Zrxrunner]

I thought the "M" on the old ford wrenches was for mossberg. I come across a bunch of these old wrenches that came with I believe both ford cars and Ford tractors. Most are in pretty rough shape from abuse or just overuse on the farm though. I dont know that I've ever seen an actual list of what would come in a "kit" for any certain model car or tractor though.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Moore drop forge made these for ford

 

[Spjuggalo]

I saw a list with pix on a subarchive of Smithsonian resource website

 

[engineer2]

I've got a pair of regular slip-joint pliers with the Ford script logo. I think they are very common.

 

[DadsTools]

I've got a pair of regular slip-joint pliers with the Ford script logo. I think they are very common.

Indeed. These are from the era where they put tool kits in all the cars. Some of the tools were made specifically so you could perform service on that specific vehicle.

What sometimes gets overlooked on the reckoning is that NOBODY EVER GOT RID OF THE TOOLS! They'd scrap the car but keep the tools. Even their descendants. "Hey, look at all these old tools from Pops. We could get rid of these ones called Snap-on, Bonney or Herbrand--they're really dumb-sounding names for tools so they can't be any good. But these wrenches with the cool-looking Ford name on them must be something--we should keep them."

And so they did...in mass quantities.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have a bunch I picked up at yard sales cheap, usually a buck or two. Really neat tools and well made.

 

[Farmer J.]

these ones called Snap-on, Bonney or Herbrand--they're really dumb-sounding names for tools so they can't be any good. But these wrenches with the cool-looking Ford name on them must be something--we should keep them."

And so they did...in mass quantities.

Yep. That's what happened. I have a whole box of Ford Tractor wrenches (in a Fordson tractor box!) but only 3 Barcolo from WW2. I remember people saying, 20 years after everything on the farm ran on diesel, "That's the special spanner for a Fordson spark plug, keep it safe".

The Ford branded tools are interesting in their own right though, with detail variations. I haven't gone in to it deeply but I get the impression that Ford had identical tools made under contract by a variety of manufacturers. The ones made here by T Williams with the 'Ford' script logo also have the 'TW in a circle' logo discreetly, but the ones here with Enfo (English Ford, same era as FoMoCo) don't have any manufacturers name or mark on them that I have seen.

 

[bargainhuntingking]

Just picked this T-5893 up today for a quarter. Who made the ones with the B in the circle? Barcalo?

 

[didit]

I pick them up every so often. I have a set of 3 Ford Canada wrenches and another that is configured differently. I also have one of the black wooden handled Ford screw drivers and a pair of Ford scripted pliers. A few hand cranks and tire tools as well. They find me, I never specifically went looking for them.

 

[Farmer J.]

Just picked this T-5893 up today for a quarter. Who made the ones with the B in the circle? Barcalo?

I have the same wrench, but with 'TW' in a circle makers mark. It was contract made by T Williams, Birmingham, UK.
I wonder how many different manufacturers made tools under contract for Ford? That could be a fun collecting theme for someone, even if it was a single one of the tools!

 

[toolmiser]

anybody got an idea how to identify a ford screw driver. I have a bunch of the wrenches, but no screwdrivers, or maybe I do and can't identify them as ford?

 

[didit]

If you Google Ford Model A tool kits a lot of images come up. They are not all the same. I was hoping someone with more knowledge would shed some light on this subject. Here is a pic of the screwdriver that was in my kit in the trunk of a '30 coupe. There was pair of pliers, 3 DOE wrenches that are a set or a partial set, another DOE that is different and a hand crank also. Probably the guys on the Ford Barn could help you more. I don't know if any of the screw drivers were Ford scripted. This is just the stuff that was together in a cloth bag in the trunk. Model T tools, I know nothing about either but could have a few kicking around.

 

[brathnach]

Lovely wrench find. Any clue as to their age/year?

J

 

[Ricky Joe]

Model A is easy: 1928-1931. Model T is 1908-1927. Model T had a few different iterations of wrenches. Most model A wrenches are similar. Ford put toolkits in cars until 1942.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Here is info on manufacturer logos on the Ford tools:

 

[Ed in Virginia]

I thought the "M" on the old ford wrenches was for mossberg. I come across a bunch of these old wrenches that came with I believe both ford cars and Ford tractors. Most are in pretty rough shape from abuse or just overuse on the farm though. I dont know that I've ever seen an actual list of what would come in a "kit" for any certain model car or tractor though.

The "M" by itself represented Manzel Co. in Buffalo, NY. The "M" in a diamond represented Frank Mossberg Co. in Attleboro, MA. The "M" in a circle represented Moore Drop Forging in Springfield, MA. More info is in the attachment.

 

[Farmer J.]

Here is info on manufacturer logos on the Ford tools:

Thanks, and a warm welcome to GJ. I hadn't seen that chart before. The TW in a circle from England is T Williams, Tilton Road, Birmingham. I have a collection of their 'Superslim' DOE wrenches. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/t-williams-superslim.386463/

 

[Farmer J.]

anybody got an idea how to identify a ford screw driver. I have a bunch of the wrenches, but no screwdrivers, or maybe I do and can't identify them as ford?

I have some screwdrivers which my late Father told me originally came in Ford tool kits, they are the wire loop handle type with no logo or Ford script on them.

 

[humber2]

The letters VBW in the pretzel outline are English from Vaughan Bros Willenhall

 

[Lassen Forge]

T screwdrivers are wood handle, square shank flat blade.

There were 3 (maybe 4) different styles of the combination spark plug (always open ended) & head bolt wrench, earlier ones had a "socket" style head for the head bolts, later ones were an open ended box wrench instead.

There's also an entire evolution of the wheel bearing / hubcap wrench, from one with 3 openings to one with 4. These are (surprisingly) one of the most important wrenches for a T as without the specifically curved-sided box wrench design, it's almost impossible to get the hubcap off without damaging the thing. People try to use the "crescent" (actually called an "auto wrench") with the kit or a modern wrench, but these invariably screw up the head of the hubcap.

Speaking of the "auto" wrench, the ones with the square "tip" on the end of the handle were a later design, to access the new, recessed square-socketed plug differential to check the level, thereabouts 1925-26. Before that the plug was a (thin) hex headed plug (that the wheel wrench happens to fit, BTW)... Ford also (allegedly) supplied an oil can with the cars, tho there was no provision to store it on the car. Guess you were supposed to leave it on the shelf of the shop....

The final piece of the T puzzle is the double open ended wrench (known as the 1917 wrench, although that's a part number, not a year) that does everything from adjust your transmission bands to snug down the manifold clamp nuts.

- - - - - -

There are also a PLETHORA of specialized tools from the T era - all from Ford - commonly referred to as "Z" tools. They have part numbers that begin "5Z" (or 3Z) followed by 3 or 4 numbers. One of my absolute favorites is a ratcheting box end wrench (beat Gearwrench by a few decades) that dealers used to adjust bands faster (with less risk of dumping it down into the transmission)...

 

[Ricky Joe]

Wooden screwdrivers for Ford can be identified by having seven flutes in the handle. I am not aware that the wire handled ones are specifically for Ford, but perhaps in the very early days. I have a set of them. There was an oil can in the original tool kits. That ratcheting band adjuster makes it easier to adjust that 11/16” adjuster, as it is hard to access and get good results if you have to remove and replace your wrench constantly. In the early days there were a lot of manufacturers and sellers of Ford kits and specific Ford wrenches, not all of them authorized by Ford. A huge Ford manufacturer of specialty wrenches was K. R. Wilson. Manzel-Buffalo was a later manufacturer, not around in the 1920s. I’m thinking 1950-1960s. Ford required a lot of specialty tools. Not so much other manufacturers, although Hinckley-Myers, Kent-Moore, Herbrand, Bonney, Miller, Duro, and Plomb, were major manufacturers of General Motors and Chrysler specialty tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The TW in a circle from England is T Williams, Tilton Road, Birmingham

The letters VBW in the pretzel outline are English from Vaughan Bros Willenhall

Sometimes bearing the Ford-script "EnFo" (England/English Ford), as you both well know, but I mention in case others may not.

// BREAK //

More interesting to me is the logo attributed in the chart to Chicago Mfg & Distributing.

I am not a Ford guy or an antique/vintage Ford toolkit collector, and I am not at all immersed in the long, well-documented and clubby history of collecting Model A/T tools, but as a peripheral collector, that's a first heard for me, and I have never seen that logo on a Ford tool before. That's not to argue with the chart. I trust that examples exist.

The attribution is interesting to me because I do collect Chicago Mfg & Distributing socket sets (see Pics 1, 2 & 3), and, as I have noted a few times elsewhere before here on GJ, I am not convinced the logo signifies Chicago Mfg & Distributing. Despite what Alloy Artifacts and the Ford chart indicate.

The "C" in the intertwined "C" and "H" monograph makes sense (for Chicago), but, one would have to admit that the "H" is more conspicuous. On top of that, Chicago Manufacturing & Distributing had their own logo, and it was a "C" "M" and "D" monograph, in a circle, as one would expect (see Pic 4).

Compounding the "CM&D" vs. "CH" conundrum, is the fact that the logo shows up on all kinds of products other than hand tools, including early Wilton "Bullet" machinists' vises (see Pic 5 & 6) and Welch magnetos (see Pic 7).

Whatever company (and I have postulated it's most likely a foundry) the "C" and "H" monograph stands for, they were obviously casting parts for other business entities, including Wilton and Welch, and putting their monograph on the casting. There's every reason to deduce that Chicago Manufacturing & Distributing could be a client of the foundry as well, not the source of the monograph.

By the way, CM&D, Wilton, and Welch were ALL located in Chicago.

Having no stake in the matter either way, I would be perfectly willing to concede, shown documented proof that "CH" equals "CM&D", but it's just as likely that neither the proprietor at AA or Brent Mueller, the maker of the Ford chart, are aware of that symbol showing up on vises and magnetos and who knows what else.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Ch, maybe just CHicago

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Could be. Historically, that would not follow the pattern for monographs, though, which are typically the first initials in a few different words. The WVTW of the Woodings Verona Tool Works is a great example of a monograph. But closer to home, the first Crescent Tool Co monograph. Also, hypothetically, even if it is CH for Chicago, it doesn't help definitively identify CM&D or explain why they had two logos.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Thanks, and a warm welcome to GJ. I hadn't seen that chart before. The TW in a circle from England is T Williams, Tilton Road, Birmingham. I have a collection of their 'Superslim' DOE wrenches. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/t-williams-superslim.386463/

Thanks for the welcome and the info about TW - I'll update my copy of that list.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Sometimes bearing the Ford-script "EnFo" (England/English Ford), as you both well know, but I mention in case others may not.

// BREAK //

More interesting to me is the logo attributed in the chart to Chicago Mfg & Distributing.

I am not a Ford guy or an antique/vintage Ford toolkit collector, and I am not at all immersed in the long, well-documented and clubby history of collecting Model A/T tools, but as a peripheral collector, that's a first heard for me, and I have never seen that logo on a Ford tool before. That's not to argue with the chart. I trust that examples exist.

The attribution is interesting to me because I do collect Chicago Mfg & Distributing socket sets (see Pics 1, 2 & 3), and, as I have noted a few times elsewhere before here on GJ, I am not convinced the logo signifies Chicago Mfg & Distributing. Despite what Alloy Artifacts and the Ford chart indicate.

The "C" in the intertwined "C" and "H" monograph makes sense (for Chicago), but, one would have to admit that the "H" is more conspicuous. On top of that, Chicago Manufacturing & Distributing had their own logo, and it was a "C" "M" and "D" monograph, in a circle, as one would expect (see Pic 4).

Compounding the "CM&D" vs. "CH" conundrum, is the fact that the logo shows up on all kinds of products other than hand tools, including early Wilton "Bullet" machinists' vises (see Pic 5 & 6) and Welch magnetos (see Pic 7).

Whatever company (and I have postulated it's most likely a foundry) the "C" and "H" monograph stands for, they were obviously casting parts for other business entities, including Wilton and Welch, and putting their monograph on the casting. There's every reason to deduce that Chicago Manufacturing & Distributing could be a client of the foundry as well, not the source of the monograph.

By the way, CM&D, Wilton, and Welch were ALL located in Chicago.

Having no stake in the matter either way, I would be perfectly willing to concede, shown documented proof that "CH" equals "CM&D", but it's just as likely that neither the proprietor at AA or Brent Mueller, the maker of the Ford chart, are aware of that symbol showing up on vises and magnetos and who knows what else.

Thank you guys for the UK mfg. names. I've updated that chart and uploaded it here.

>> Chicago Mfg & Distributing << I have seen this on a number of Model T-era tools. I'm a long-time collector. I'll see if I can dredge up a few photos for you.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Here's a 3Z-624 Exhaust Pack Nut open-end wrench for Model T Fords from Chicago Mfg. The "Z" tools mainly were intended for pro mechanic usage.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Here's a 3Z-624 Exhaust Pack Nut open-end wrench for Model T Fords from Chicago Mfg. The "Z" tools mainly were intended for pro mechanic usage.

This is another 3Z tool with the same logo:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Ed. Nice tools.

I will re-emphasize, though, that my not having seen one or being aware of them as a non-collector was not to doubt their existence, but mentioned as a prelude for adding them to my growing list of products with the somewhat mysterious "C" and "H" monograph.

If you know of something (a period ad, Ford factory document, etc) that corroborates the logo with Chicago Mfg & Distributing, I would be very interested in seeing it. I have been unable to find anything like that.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Thanks, Ed. Nice tools.

I will re-emphasize, though, that my not having seen one or being aware of them as a non-collector was not to doubt their existence, but mentioned as a prelude for adding them to my growing list of products with the somewhat mysterious "C" and "H" monograph.

If you know of something (a period ad, Ford factory document, etc) that corroborates the logo with Chicago Mfg & Distributing, I would be very interested in seeing it. I have been unable to find anything like that.

Unfortunately, I have not found any documentation like that.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. We'll just have to keep digging!

 

[humber2]

I see a variety of fonts for the H appearing. Why?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I noted that on other threads. Not sure. Not even 100% sure they're the same.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, I had some luck trying some new tricks this afternoon. An early (1922) list of UL certified safe products included a locking mechanism supplied by CM&D to Ford. See Pic 1. So there is at least some kind of connection. On the other hand, I did find a trademark certificate (see Pic 2) for the "CM&D" in a Circle logo I mentioned and showed upthread, which casts doubt on them having a different, second logo with a "C" and an "H". Oddly, the TM application, filed in 1941, claimed first use in 1937, which is extremely late. My pressed steel socket set, with that logo on the paper label on the underside of the lid, is no later than 1924. So I suspect their application was mistaken.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

I searched for a better thread to post this … didn't find anything.

Looking back at post #1 … i have a very similar wrench, except mine does not have the Ford logo. But it’s clearly a Moore Drop Forge tool. My question is about the original finish … mine seems to have remnants of black enamel or japanning.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's an old brake wrench

 

[d42jeep]

I’ve run across a few Ford marked tools. I don’t know much more about them.
-Don

 

[Ed in Virginia]

Here's an old brake wrench

That's actually for adjusting transmission bands. The 5Z (and prior 3Z) tools were commercial tools marketed to authorized dealerships and commercial garages. There is a 3Z version that was produced during the Model T era and was followed by this one.