Ohmthis
Well-known member
Robert, great job on the body tools. You’ve probably mentioned it before, but what paint are you using? What technique are you using to apply? Thanks!
MP&C Shop Projects
- Thread starter MP&C
- Start date
After all the polishing is done I mask off, media blast, and paint with one of the name brand 2in1 paint/primer aerosol spray cans. After the paint has dried slightly I'll pull the tape off and any sharp edges in the paint are taken care of using razor blade. I do have some of the handles I've removed before that I'll use for holding any loose hammer heads while painting. For assy, I have a wooden mallet with a piece of leather on one side (held on using hose clamp) that helps to keep from marring up the fresh finish on the handles.
Here’s a commission I just completed for Jason at Wild Rides and Fabrication. He had reached out to see if I had one of the Snap-On unicorns, the vertical cross peen hammer. Well, I didn’t have one, but had all the parts to make one. We started with a BF604 and lopped off the chisel, chamfered everything, rotated the chisel 90°, set a gap for a root pass, and welded everything up with some Super Missile welding rod. The handle was narrowed through the neck and refinished. All cleaned up, it looks like it came this way.
larry4406
Well-known member
Robert - if this metal shaping and painting thing doesn’t work out for you, looks like you might make it doing one-off body hammers although the volume might not be there.
Label all your creations “BFH-***”.
Label all your creations “BFH-***”.
Monza Harry
Well-known member
Larry, Body F.....g Hammer?Robert - ...
Label all your creations“BFH***”.
I jest only in body shaping hands like mine LOL! Harry
A friend of mine in PA has been looking for a Snap-On BF633 hammer for some time now. The last (and only) one I've seen was on eBay, it had nicks in the chisel and hammer face, as well as an incorrect MATCO fiberglass handle. With tax and shipping it sold for right at $200, pictured here:
I also have a couple of the BF617 large face hammers with the shrinking face (waffle pattern). Another metalshaper friend of mine has been restoring and selling hammers and dollys for many decades. He told me in all that time, he has never sold a waffle faced hammer.
So based on his experiences, I have little chance of selling one of those shrinking hammers myself, and thought I'd sacrifice one for the other. Here is our attempt to use a hammer nobody wants to make a hammer nobody can find.
Here is our start to the process, using the blacksmithing skills I didn't know I had. The unwanted end was heated cherry red and smacked using BFH to force the hammer face inward. Heat, beat, and repeat. A piece of 1/2-13 all thread serves as our heat resistant handle.
Once our hammer face was "pointy" enough to fit through the jaw of the lathe, the hammer was chucked and the diameter cut down to size for our faux hammer.
Now with the face cut down to size and preliminary polishing done on the lathe, the chisel could be heated and curved to match the BF633 Unicorn.
Some grinding using the Dynabrade air file/belt sander...
Face polished
Handle refitted and neck section thinned out
The tricky part with refinishing the handles is to leave the logo intact.
Prior to final assembly the hammer head was taken to Combs Prototype and Fabrication for some heat treatment in his oven.
Assembled, polished, and ready for a trip to PA where it can be put to work...
I also have a couple of the BF617 large face hammers with the shrinking face (waffle pattern). Another metalshaper friend of mine has been restoring and selling hammers and dollys for many decades. He told me in all that time, he has never sold a waffle faced hammer.
So based on his experiences, I have little chance of selling one of those shrinking hammers myself, and thought I'd sacrifice one for the other. Here is our attempt to use a hammer nobody wants to make a hammer nobody can find.
Here is our start to the process, using the blacksmithing skills I didn't know I had. The unwanted end was heated cherry red and smacked using BFH to force the hammer face inward. Heat, beat, and repeat. A piece of 1/2-13 all thread serves as our heat resistant handle.
Once our hammer face was "pointy" enough to fit through the jaw of the lathe, the hammer was chucked and the diameter cut down to size for our faux hammer.
Now with the face cut down to size and preliminary polishing done on the lathe, the chisel could be heated and curved to match the BF633 Unicorn.
Some grinding using the Dynabrade air file/belt sander...
Face polished
Handle refitted and neck section thinned out
The tricky part with refinishing the handles is to leave the logo intact.
Prior to final assembly the hammer head was taken to Combs Prototype and Fabrication for some heat treatment in his oven.
Assembled, polished, and ready for a trip to PA where it can be put to work...
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Still putting pictures together of the latest wagon progress, so let's add a couple more hammer pictures in the meantime..
A good friend from Huntsville area has been selling body hammers and dollys for decades now. He told me he has never sold a "shrinking" hammer with the waffle face. So he had one that had a slightly damaged waffle face, and he sent it to me, said I'd find something to do with it. Fast forward to last week, and one of the guys that had been to the shop for metalshaping classes reached out, looking for a square faced low crown hammer with a chisel. I didn't have the exact hammer, but I did have the parts. Here's the hammer, a Fairmount with a round shrinking face, smooth face on the square end..
I also had this chisel left over from a Snap On BF618 when we made a stubby hammer out of that one.
That was a good start, but not sleek enough for what I had planned here, so we thinned out the chisel for a better match to this hammer..
Root pass using 312 rod. When welds were done, we also used a burr grinder to add the side casting marks through the welds so it looked like it came this way.
We also have another ball end hammer that was requested, this one heading out to BBT Fab in Illinois.
7/8 S2 tool steel ball that we had bored was pressed in place and welded on using 312 rod.
Die grinder used again to take the side casting marks up into the weld area to make it look like it came this way..
And I've had steady requests for the linear stretch - reverse curve hammers.. Had to start assembly lining these things.
Another finished matched set..
A good friend from Huntsville area has been selling body hammers and dollys for decades now. He told me he has never sold a "shrinking" hammer with the waffle face. So he had one that had a slightly damaged waffle face, and he sent it to me, said I'd find something to do with it. Fast forward to last week, and one of the guys that had been to the shop for metalshaping classes reached out, looking for a square faced low crown hammer with a chisel. I didn't have the exact hammer, but I did have the parts. Here's the hammer, a Fairmount with a round shrinking face, smooth face on the square end..
I also had this chisel left over from a Snap On BF618 when we made a stubby hammer out of that one.
That was a good start, but not sleek enough for what I had planned here, so we thinned out the chisel for a better match to this hammer..
Root pass using 312 rod. When welds were done, we also used a burr grinder to add the side casting marks through the welds so it looked like it came this way.
We also have another ball end hammer that was requested, this one heading out to BBT Fab in Illinois.
7/8 S2 tool steel ball that we had bored was pressed in place and welded on using 312 rod.
Die grinder used again to take the side casting marks up into the weld area to make it look like it came this way..
And I've had steady requests for the linear stretch - reverse curve hammers.. Had to start assembly lining these things.
Another finished matched set..
steves_001
Well-known member
Amazing hammer builds! I still stay I'd be afraid to use them but they sure would look nice hanging on the wall! Cant wait to see more wagon pics.
stinkity stoink
Well-known member
Love the hammers, but are you doing shaping classes? I know you had a few , but if you are I’m interested.
I’d also love to get some instruction here. I’ve never really done any shaping or body work and would love to learn more, plus have another excuse to visit peaceful Southern MD!
Robert, are the waffle-end shrinking hammers discredited as effective tools now? Is that approach to bunching the metal seen as hack work in today’s more sophisticated environment? I remember Martin also made dollies with that texture on one side.
John
John
John, Most all hammer manufacturers have some variation of the waffle faced shrinking hammer. Years ago it was commonplace to use these and today it seems you either use them with great results or they are a gimmick. So let's delve a little deeper.....
By comparison, a smooth faced framing hammer used in construction is quick to bend over a nail if your aim is slightly off center. Now pick up the same size framing hammer with a waffle face, and that problem all but disappears. What you have going on is now there are multiple "hammer faces" there where if one slips there are plenty of others to grab the nail head and keep it going inward and not sideways. In respect to body hammers, I think the "hackwork" stigma you speak of stems from novices not knowing the proper use of the hammer, and instinctively see these devices (available as waffle face dollies too) as some type of hammer form that will gather up the excess metal if the hammer face "contour" is imprinted into the metal. On the contrary, if you are leaving an imprint, you are swinging the hammer too hard. In much the same fashion as using a ******* file, you should see some LIGHT marking of the metal, which can also be helpful to show where you are striking. This exercise will also show that any low spots are untouched, so the rough surface of the file ******* does well to gather/strike the excess that are high areas. (sounds similar to the concept of a shrinking disc, no?) Thinking back to the framing hammer not slipping, the waffle pattern does well on irregularly shaped (lumpy) panels to gather up the high areas without slipping, and force the excess metal back into itself. Just like tuck shrinking, just like using a donut dolly, the theory is all very much the same. I would clarify that the intent is not to imprint this waffle pattern onto the metal, we should be using light hits that may mark up the metal slightly, but no imprinting. These hammers were used both with and without heat for shrinking.
I've read that Ron Covell is not a fan of these type hammers and has been one of many out there to label them as gimmick hammers that the novice just should not buy. I've been told that he further clarified that he never had good luck in using these hammers so based on that it would make good sense that he wouldn't promote something if he couldn't show effective and consistent results in the many demonstrations. Another point to make, Kent White told me that all hammers shrink. Think about that one. Kind of implies to use the hammer that doesn't cause more damage for us to fix. My take on all this is that there are people out there adding more damage to a panel, but since it's getting covered in filler its not as much an issue. They just need a stable panel to hold filler, so getting rid of the high spots (stretch) seems their only concern. I've also seen some of the work done by Don Smart in NC (blacklinebuildersguild on IG) where he uses shrinking hammers in conjunction with a torch and does absolutely beautiful work in achieving virtually filler free panels.
So my take on the whole waffle faced hammer deal is that just like any other tool, used properly a person can do wonders. Used incorrectly you can make more work for yourself. As to used hammers, I've run across waffle face hammers that looked like someone used it to hammer on steel punches, and there was little recovery from that, we ground the face smooth. As to the other hammers that I've modified, they were sacrificed to make a hammer that someone requested, especially since there is a limited market for these hammers such that they don't command a good resale value. So I modified them into something that had present value. Perhaps also feeding into the stigma, we now mainly use shrinking discs, heating tips (on dent pullers), donut dollys, etc. to accomplish the same/similar function. As with anything else I've mentioned in this thread and others, our repairs should not cause additional effort to further fix what we just did. Otherwise we should refine the process to make shorter work of it. In the right hands, the waffle hammers work extremely well. In the wrong hands, perhaps we just bad mouth the tool instead of fixing our workmanship skills. Just as with any other tool. Personally, Robert doesn't get along well with spot weld drills, I found myself fixing too many that went through too far. I choose a process that works better for me.
So all that aside, if you'd like to try the waffle pattern hammer, there are enough people out there that haven't had good results, get your feet wet by finding a used tool that didn't work for someone else and get a better price that way.
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txvwnut
Well-known member
I bought a "shrinking face" hammer many years ago. Never could figure out how effectively use it so it ended up in the back of drawer.
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Robert, one of the few things that challenge my one-handedness is driving nails. I should say 'starting' nails. The 'Work Hook' on my mechanical arm has provision for holding nails (and TIG rods) but it's hard to use overhead.
I discovered the waffle-faced 21-oz, 14-in Dead On framing hammer. It has two notches and a magnet in the head. The notch in the face guides the nail shaft, the notch next to the handle socket accepts the nail head and the magnet holds the nail in place. First whack sets the nail and then the waffle face sends the nail home without slipping.
I use screws more often than nails but that beast of a hammer is real helpful when nails are needed.
Good deal Bob, I’m like you, I try to use screws more often than not. I remember them coming out with that hammer, I had all but hung up my framing hammer at that point. I remember scoffing at the idea at the time thinking if someone couldn’t start a nail without hitting their thumb, then they shouldn’t be hammering. You bring a new light and humility to my perspective. I’ve always thought this but you’re one bad sob @Bob Heine !
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WoodsTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 1,019
How many blows does it take to sink a 3" screw?
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Depends on whether they are coarse or fine thread.
Thanks for that comprehensive answer Robert, as usual describing a process more subtle (and less caveman) than the one I’d imagined.
I just remembered there were also those German-made “shrinking hammers” with concentric grooves in the face and spring loaded cam action which supposedly gathered-up metal with each strike. Eastwood used to sell them when Eastwood was a small, friendly specialist mail order house based near Malvern, Penna. Back when we looked forward to monthly car magazines dropping through the mailbox and the odd high-quality tool catalog.
cheers as always, John.
I just remembered there were also those German-made “shrinking hammers” with concentric grooves in the face and spring loaded cam action which supposedly gathered-up metal with each strike. Eastwood used to sell them when Eastwood was a small, friendly specialist mail order house based near Malvern, Penna. Back when we looked forward to monthly car magazines dropping through the mailbox and the odd high-quality tool catalog.
cheers as always, John.
Wiz02
Well-known member
I too remember when Eastwood had a store in Malvern and I worked nearby. Good times.
I too had one of the Eastwood hammers. I found them to require quite a bit of swing in order to actuate the cam action. What normally occurs from there is that it is a very fine line between seeing a bit of shrinking occur, and the swing required has now stretched the metal even further, making your previous efforts useless. I saved someone some money on a used hammer as it was sold shortly afterwards.
Picked up a new dishwasher last night and went to install it today. The included brackets to attach it to the adjacent cabinets were a sham. Found some 16 gauge stainless in the shop and made our own. Tacked on some 10-32 nuts to attach to the DW for zero movement when opening the door.
shortykorte
Well-known member
, Kent White told me that all hammers shrink. Think about that one.
I was under impression that hammer on dolly thinned the metal or making a dent with a hammer or vehicle was stretch.
I was under impression that hammer on dolly thinned the metal or making a dent with a hammer or vehicle was stretch.
I have a couple of the BF614 long pick hammers, and the older one may have been used to pry at some point in it's life as the pick was bent towards the front of the hammer. So let's make some lemonade. Since this hammer's handle is about 4-5" longer than their normal, I thought I'd try another of those crown faced stubby hammers with a bit extra reach.
Sample picture of the BF614:
I missed the welding pictures, but here's the immediately afterwards...
We should get the handle stained, hammer head painted, and assembled by this weekend. I also picked up some black walnut scraps from a local cabinet maker to give the wooden wedges a bit more definition..
Sample picture of the BF614:
I missed the welding pictures, but here's the immediately afterwards...
We should get the handle stained, hammer head painted, and assembled by this weekend. I also picked up some black walnut scraps from a local cabinet maker to give the wooden wedges a bit more definition..
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Robert, you are truly the creator and curator of the best body hammers SnapOn never made.
The threads are for taking them back out!
stinkity stoink
Well-known member
Seems you have been busy !! Nice work as usual
Ohmthis
Well-known member
Robert, on the duct adapter, is the diameter a nominal size for a known flex duct? I ask because the flex duct in my 66 F100 is trashed and supposedly (I’ll admit I haven’t checked yet) it unobtanium. My idea was to cut the pipe and weld new piping to work with a standard flex. Thanks for showing all of your work. I get ideas or knowledge with every single one!
The adapter is the same size as the back side of the VA vents. We haven't picked out the final flavor yet, but plan on shopping here:
McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
Well they say things happen in threes, so here's hoping for a reprieve. First the dishwasher, then a wall oven. Then we took a break from it all and travelled to St Augustine for a concert...
The next day we got a call from E about water in the basement...
So after walking her through all the valves to close and circuit breakers to turn off, we wound up leaving a day early to come back home.
Upon our return, we found a built in sprinkler system....
I guess a porous weld holding back water is a recipe for wetness. The weld was behind the flange for mounting the oil backup, and too close to the floor to just band-aid this thing. So the flange was cut off, the weld ground out and re-welded using the TIG, 312 rod.
and flange reattached...
I had some parts to order to get the oil burner back in service, so I had blank-off plate cut out. We've been burning wood over the winters since fuel oil prices have gone crazy, so no harm no foul
Back to work in the shop, I had done another louver job with Cody Walls in January, and he sent some pictures of them installed..
And the latest on the wagon, our vintage air unit has a rectangular vent that hangs at the bottom of the dash. Unfortunately our console will be in the front of it. So we opted for some duct adapters that will be fed into round vents installed in the console.
And our latest hammer, a vintage Blue Point reverse curve "red head"
The next day we got a call from E about water in the basement...
So after walking her through all the valves to close and circuit breakers to turn off, we wound up leaving a day early to come back home.
Upon our return, we found a built in sprinkler system....
I guess a porous weld holding back water is a recipe for wetness. The weld was behind the flange for mounting the oil backup, and too close to the floor to just band-aid this thing. So the flange was cut off, the weld ground out and re-welded using the TIG, 312 rod.
and flange reattached...
I had some parts to order to get the oil burner back in service, so I had blank-off plate cut out. We've been burning wood over the winters since fuel oil prices have gone crazy, so no harm no foul
Back to work in the shop, I had done another louver job with Cody Walls in January, and he sent some pictures of them installed..
And the latest on the wagon, our vintage air unit has a rectangular vent that hangs at the bottom of the dash. Unfortunately our console will be in the front of it. So we opted for some duct adapters that will be fed into round vents installed in the console.
And our latest hammer, a vintage Blue Point reverse curve "red head"
Well I broke down and worked on my BF612 the other day. The Snap-On BF612 was designed for better access in tight spaces by someone who's never used a hammer in tight spaces. Otherwise they would have known that over 90% of those tight spaces are inside of a door, fender, or quarter panel, with a reverse crown on the panel. So the flat face that they put on this hammer would actually leave coin marks on the panel. This is my correction of that flaw, we've added a slight crown, all the edges of the hammer face deburred/radiused to remove any sharp edges, and polished out. Then we thinned the hammer handle slightly through the neck for less shock transferred to your wrist, and refinished. The handle was reinstalled using a Walnut wedge.
Trying to assemble the tailgate so we can put it on, but our latch actuator is absolutely worn out in the square hole, the handle just about rotates inside of it. They don't make repop's (that I'm aware of) and someone just offered a rebuilding service at over $300. So I reached out to my go to used parts outlet and a good used one is on the way, mailed the same day.. Reference photo:
So while we're waiting on parts to load up the rest of the bits on the tailgate, lets chase the threaded holes....
The console just got dropped off, we had some material in the corners that was pulling due to all the stretching that had taken place. In order to keep things more permanent, I came up with some 19 gauge stainless "trim lock". A hemmed edge helps keep from cutting into the upholstery. It gets clipped in place, shoved into the corner snugly, and through drilled for installing solid rivets.
In order to match our dash insert, the console insert will also be oriented horizontally (lines left to right)
We also got some of the grill stainless added to the front end. What an alignment pita. Still have some tweaks to do..
So while we're waiting on parts to load up the rest of the bits on the tailgate, lets chase the threaded holes....
The console just got dropped off, we had some material in the corners that was pulling due to all the stretching that had taken place. In order to keep things more permanent, I came up with some 19 gauge stainless "trim lock". A hemmed edge helps keep from cutting into the upholstery. It gets clipped in place, shoved into the corner snugly, and through drilled for installing solid rivets.
In order to match our dash insert, the console insert will also be oriented horizontally (lines left to right)
We also got some of the grill stainless added to the front end. What an alignment pita. Still have some tweaks to do..
senlow
Well-known member
The shop made stainless trim lock is a great solution.
I find that using a t-handle tap handle for cleaning up a bunch of holes is a pain. I prefer to use a speed handle and a Lisle tap socket. Give it a shot some time.
I find that using a t-handle tap handle for cleaning up a bunch of holes is a pain. I prefer to use a speed handle and a Lisle tap socket. Give it a shot some time.
larry4406
Well-known member
I want to see this Nomad in person when its done!