MP&C Shop Projects

[mharmon]

Robert

I've followed your thread for awhile but rarely comment. Wagon is looking great.

Saw the shop truck is for sale. It even made it to Bring a Trailer.

http://bringatrailer.com/2015/07/23/5-star-cab-big-job-1952-ford-f7-truck/

 

[b-body-bob]

If/when I make any progress I'll report back.

I just wanted to jump back on and report some progress on the road runner quarter skin that needed additional bending to fit the rocker.

I did end up making a slice in the wheel well lip, just enough so bending the bottom didn't affect the whole panel. Then I rigged up some medium throat vise grips with 1-1/2" angle iron 8" long, and through some creative clamping and careful prying with the pliers I got the bottom of the panel flat and bent to where it fits the rocker with just light clamping.

I plan to take some photos of it and how I worked the clamps to get the bend over the weekend, so I'll post that with a quick explanation later.

 

[MP&C]

Robert

I've followed your thread for awhile but rarely comment. Wagon is looking great.

Saw the shop truck is for sale. It even made it to Bring a Trailer.

http://bringatrailer.com/2015/07/23/5-star-cab-big-job-1952-ford-f7-truck/

Finally made the big time! I think that's what generated the call this evening..

 

[MP&C]

Got some more SPI Epoxy sprayed, here's the parts for Katie's truck that she prepped...

....and some more on the wagon parts....

 

[HOTFR8]

Loving the color on the doors bonnet (hood) or is that just primer ?

 

[Ohmthis]

Robert, the paint is going to be awesome after all of that sanding. My last paint job was one coat primer, fill, sand, primer, block, paint. It was pretty good (far from WOW) thanks for posting and teaching.

 

[Kevin54]

Loving the color on the doors bonnet (hood) or is that just primer ?

Simon......that is black epoxy primer

Robert.....Spellmans has been out of business for a few years now. The factory is not too far from me. Maybe 7 minutes away on the other side of town. There was another company in town that made Transfer Screws (Heimann Mfg.) and they just recently went out of business also. Both companies made excellent products and what they made will last for years. My transfer screws I bought used and are probably 40+ years old and got used quite extensively and are still like new. Any that you get today will most likely come from overseas, so hang on to what you have.

 

[HOTFR8]

Simon......that is black epoxy primer.

Well it shows off the workmanship. Even with the dark primer you can see the panels are perfect.

 

[MP&C]

Tonight's post offers some blocking pointers.

We had already done a couple sessions of priming/blocking the door across to the quarter and to the fender, all installed on the car. After this, more primer and put a perimeter of tape on the door skin. Now block separately, and the tape allows you to block the door and keep off the edge to prevent losing your match to the fender/quarter.

I don't stick with 45* angles, if you want to keep a long direction flat, you need the long block to better follow that direction. So change up to some sharper angles, about 30* off the long direction every now and then. Work one end to the other, consistent spacing, consistent angle, end to end. Then alternate to passes in the opposite direction.


Once done, and the inner part is good and blocked, now remove the tape and GENTLY block to the edge, taking care to not pull down at the edge and round things back off again. Whatever hand is holding the block make sure it is minimal pressure and stays on the door skin. In other words, no pressure pulling down past the edge.

One other point, to keep the inner end of the sanding block from sanding out all your hard work in the center of the door, put a wrap of tape around the end of the sanding block that is towards the center of the door. This helps that end to glide across the center of the door without cutting primer there.

Now to show the importance of the long board..


We had done some blocking with the 27" AFS and seemed to have two high spots with a low in the middle of the door..

Note the high areas marked by the green tape...

Now we can see that as the sander is moved to the left, the left portion of the AFS is over the high spot on the left, and a bit more movement and the right portion of the AFS will start dropping into the low void. Effectively, this is still cutting material out of the low, keeping it low.

Looking at the next size up, a 36" AFS....

Here we can see this one does a much better job of spanning the high spots and staying up on top, for a more effective job of knocking down the highs and leaving the low in the center alone...

After a few horizontal passes at slight angles, like so with the 36".......

We follow up with some vertical passes at slight angles with the 27".... all rods removed to better follow the contour. Then alternate back to the 36 and another horizontal session..

 

[RickP]

Great explanation - your previous posts explained the concept, but now I understand the details and tools to do it right. Thanks.

 

[E12-535iTurbo]

Can you share the brand name and model of the long blocks you use? Are they 3M?

 

[MP&C]

AFS or Adjustable Flexibility Sanders. They have removable rods to adjust stiffness..

 

[wbrian63]

Robert - a question for you.

I've finally completed all (or what I believe to be all - I've said this before) of the cut-it-out-put-new-back work on my restoration project.

There are several brackets attached to the body that I'm going to remove just to make 100% sure that there isn't any lurking rust.

For example, this is the pivot point for the parking brake equalizer bar.

To remove it, I'll use a thin cutoff disk (same one I use to dress welds) to cut through the bracket behind the edge welds, then grind the weld that remains on the body back to flush. Any missing structure from the removed bracket can be rebuilt before reinstallation.

The question is - what would you use to prime the body and the back side of the bracket before reinstallation?

I've seen a few of your threads where you mix some 2-part epoxy and just paint it on with a brush.

Would that work OK here, and what brand do you use?

 

[aggierailroad]

Great tips on blocking, Robert. I've been out for a while but am glad to see that you're still rolling along smoothly.

No pun intended.

 

[MP&C]

what would you use to prime the body and the back side of the bracket before reinstallation?

I've seen a few of your threads where you mix some 2-part epoxy and just paint it on with a brush.

Would that work OK here, and what brand do you use?

I've used House of Kolor epoxy around plug welds before with good results, using the modified/flattened drill bit shown elsewhere in this thread. I'm now using the SPI and really like it, but have not tried it yet around welding. Soon to come with the truck bed floor install, but not yet. From what I have read, however, I don't foresee any adverse issues with it. Even if you have a slight burning of the paint, you figure what is left is still better than what the factory did in those locations (nothing)...

Great tips on blocking, Robert. I've been out for a while but am glad to see that you're still rolling along smoothly.

No pun intended.

 

[MP&C]

Well, the shop truck has left the building..

Sold it today, now have a bit more breathing room in the shop..

.....and another dose of epoxy

 

[HOTFR8]

Well, the truck has left the building..

Sold it today, now have a bit more breathing room in the shop..

Why do I feel you may regret that later ? . I can understand the requirement for more room but, oh well. Good luck.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

I've used House of Kolor epoxy around plug welds before with good results, using the modified/flattened drill bit shown elsewhere in this thread. I'm now using the SPI and really like it, but have not tried it yet around welding. Soon to come with the truck bed floor install, but not yet. From what I have read, however, I don't foresee any adverse issues with it. Even if you have a slight burning of the paint, you figure what is left is still better than what the factory did in those locations (nothing)...

Wish that truck was headed to my place!

When I sold my fire truck it was nice to have the room but some days kick myself. At least I have room to work on EcoProject there now.

'55 Looking great!

I may use that primer on the EcoProject. The PPG stuff is now 350.00 Plus a gallon for both the DP40 & DPLF74

Very easy to wrap up 1000.00 just in primer.

I know you probably posted a name but can you repost for that primer?

 

[MP&C]

Why do I feel you may regret that later ? . I can understand the requirement for more room but, oh well. Good luck.

I have sold other trucks that I regret selling later, and I'm sure this may be one of the same. But I'd rather someone else have a shot at building something with it than me having to resort to putting it outside in the weather we have here and ruin a rust free truck..

 

[welder4956]

I may use that primer on the EcoProject. The PPG stuff is now 350.00 Plus a gallon for both the DP40 & DPLF74

Very easy to wrap up 1000.00 just in primer.

I know you probably posted a name but can you repost for that primer?

I think it was SPI:

 

[J Persons]

I just received the SPI primer, it was $187 for both cans to my door.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Looking great Robert. Going to be a show car for sure.
To bad about the truck, but sometimes one has to get his priorities in order.
Could be, that freed up space for something awesome You never know.
Maybe the new owner will post up his new project on here.

 

[MP&C]

Wish that truck was headed to my place!

When I sold my fire truck it was nice to have the room but some days kick myself. At least I have room to work on EcoProject there now.

'55 Looking great!

I may use that primer on the EcoProject. The PPG stuff is now 350.00 Plus a gallon for both the DP40 & DPLF74

Very easy to wrap up 1000.00 just in primer.

I know you probably posted a name but can you repost for that primer?

Sorry Randy, missed your question earlier. Yes, this is SPI epoxy, also comes in grey, white, and I believe red.


Claude, I'm hoping to run across a nice small p/u to use as a shop truck, model A or similar in size..

 

[MP&C]

For anyone looking for likely one of the best classes to attend in learning metalshaping, Peter Tommasini, a master metalshaper from Australia, will be travelling the US and Canada this year conducting 4 day hands-on classes for those wishing to step up your game. If this is the first you've ever heard of Peter, here is one of his posts here on GJ:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261939


You can also look on metalmeet, allmetalshaping, or youtube to see more of his fine work. Here is a link for his class schedule and further details:


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128521#post128521


This year for those in the Maryland/Mid Atlantic area, I will be hosting one of his classes here at the shop. Suggested class sizes are 5 to 10 persons, so this provides a good opportunity to learn and hone your metalshaping skills in a small class setting. The four day hands-on class is $650 per person, and it is recommended that you bring a project to work on. (even though I just made extra room in the shop, we are limited on space, so please PM to discuss any large projects) Some sheet metal will be provided to class participants, as well as full sheets available for purchase. We anticipate providing some lunches and refreshments. We have a fairly new hotel in town approx. 3 miles away for those coming from out of town.

For others not convenient to the Mid Atlantic area, please visit the metalmeet link above to find a class in your area. Further details for the Maryland class will be posted as they are become finalized.

 

[GRN96WS6]

What a cool gesture Robert! If I even had the time off work I'd consider it just for the experience.

 

[surpdlr]

Robert,

Very cool, and very intriguing!!!!

The ****** for those of us in this area is, Fall Carlisle & the Jefferson PA Antique Motorcycle meet are the same weekend as your class dates..... Decisions Decisions....

Now all I need to do is be in several places at the same time!!! Too many interests and hobbies I guess!

What is lodging like down your way?

Jeff

 

[iajonesy]

Robert, I have a question for you that is slightly off topic. Do you shoot your etching primer over the coating that comes on new metal panels? I have a number of panels for my 56 Chevy p/u truck, doors, fenders,bed sides,hood,etc. and was wondering if that coating has to be removed before any etching primer goes on? Thanks for the help in advance.

Mike

 

[MP&C]

What a cool gesture Robert! If I even had the time off work I'd consider it just for the experience.

Let me know, trying to limit class to about 8 so we're not too crowded. About half way there now.

Robert,

Very cool, and very intriguing!!!!

The ****** for those of us in this area is, Fall Carlisle & the Jefferson PA Antique Motorcycle meet are the same weekend as your class dates..... Decisions Decisions....

Now all I need to do is be in several places at the same time!!! Too many interests and hobbies I guess!

What is lodging like down your way?

Jeff

Jeff, we have an Executive Inn right in downtown Leonardtown, convenient walking distance to local eateries, pub, or speak-easy:

http://www.execinnparkave.net/

Other hotels are about 20-30 minutes away..

Robert, I have a question for you that is slightly off topic. Do you shoot your etching primer over the coating that comes on new metal panels? I have a number of panels for my 56 Chevy p/u truck, doors, fenders,bed sides,hood,etc. and was wondering if that coating has to be removed before any etching primer goes on? Thanks for the help in advance.

Mike

Mike, I don't use etch, I use epoxy. I would suggest trying to wipe an inconspicuous area with some lacquer thinner on a rag. If paint comes off, strip it. If not, scuff and shoot some epoxy..

 

[MP&C]

The MD/Mid-Atlantic class is going to be limited to eight attendees to insure we don't get too crowded. We're sitting at 5 persons right now, so send me a PM to reserve your spot!!!


Here is a list of names I have so far, will update the list as we get others.. Will also keep a backup list for those interested in case someone needs to cancel..


Kyle Cusic
Scott Burnett
Dave Havlir
Rick Hemlick (Gator)
Joe Mato

 

[surpdlr]

PM sent.

 

[MP&C]

Class is full!


Kyle Cusic
Scott Burnett
Dave Havlir
Rick Hemlick (Gator)
Joe Mato
Howard Wentworth
Jeff Hain-Matson
Charlie Cerutti

Standby list:

Dan Norton
Sean OHarra

 

[shortykorte]

Super news on the class. Congrats.

A question on DA sanders. I see there is a palm sander and what I'll call regular sander (with handle). Is there a technical reason for the two styles or just a preference for how the user holds it?

 

[Ohmthis]

Robert, great news on the full class. Please take some pictures (I figure you will anyways) for us to see what we missed out on. One of these days I hope to get to one of these get togethers.

 

[MP&C]

Super news on the class. Congrats.

A question on DA sanders. I see there is a palm sander and what I'll call regular sander (with handle). Is there a technical reason for the two styles or just a preference for how the user holds it?

More than anything, you'll have better control using a palm sander over the DA with the handle.


Can't wait for the class, and yes, I'll get at many pics as I can!

 

[Bengelken]

Robert, I've followed you on the HAMB and just join up here so I could see more of your excellent work. Thanks for sharing. Your instruction has already improved my work.

 

[zmotorsports]

Just saw the update on the class Robert. That is great.

Mike.

 

[MP&C]

Robert, I've followed you on the HAMB and just join up here so I could see more of your excellent work. Thanks for sharing. Your instruction has already improved my work.

Ken, glad it has helped, welcome to another great site!

Just saw the update on the class Robert. That is great.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. Got another ......

Updated list for Maryland class, Gator is unable to attend so I have an email out to Dan to see if he can attend.. If not, spot will go to Sean.


Kyle Cusic
Scott Burnett
Dave Havlir
(open spot)
Joe Mato
Howard Wentworth
Jeff Hain-Matson
Charlie Cerutti

Standby list:

Dan Norton
Sean OHarra

 

[ch1]

I am late to the party, but I will also say your work is nothing short of amazing and very inspiring. I have question also. I am getting ready to start working on a 53 f100 I have had on the back burner for a couple years. My question pertains to the attached post. Would I be best to remove the seam in the back of the roof the way you have shown? Also I would like to blend the fenders into the box sides, any suggestions for this? Again awesome work.

Colin

Tonight we finished up radius-ing the liftgate opening...

Next, we moved on to de-leading and shaving the last pinch weld seam at the back of the car. We've eliminated all of these to get rid of all the dirt/rust traps that we can...

Removing the excess....

Getting some gap filler.....

Flattening out the creases....

Tacked in place, and test fitting a tail light before trimming our gap filler....

....and we'll get the rest of the de-leading finished on Saturday...

 

[MP&C]

Colin, those pinch weld seams on the cabs have long been a trouble spot for moisture collection and rust generation. It's one of the main reason we got rid of those type seams, to help it last longer the second time around. Got a picture of your areas in question?

 

[MP&C]

Get some PM's on occasion asking about fixing oil cans on sheet metal, so I thought I'd share some ideas....


I've seen on far too many automotive forums that any request for help dealing with an oil can invariably generates a response to pick up the shrinking disc, despite no detailed information given besides "I have an oil can"

Before I suggest to someone how to fix an oil can, it is best to find out what kind of oil can you are dealing with, first and foremost. I consider there are two kinds, a tight oil can and a loose oil can, each will require a different method of repair.

Tight oil can:

This is almost exclusively caused by body damage, whether a dent, glancing crease, or media blast damage, and is especially noted by displaced metal that will oil can when considerable pressure is applied, and may or may not forcibly spring back. When the body damage occurs, it stretches the panel throughout the dent or crease. A typical dent, whether straight in or a glancing blow, will have direct and indirect damage. The direct damage goes inward, stretching the panel as it goes. The indirect damage, is a much lesser amount of springback, compounded by the internal stretch pushing outward circumferentially, and you will see an outward bulge around the perimeter of the dent/damage. Although the initial inclination may be to shrink this outward bulge, for the most part this adjacent area is relatively damage free, it is mainly being spread outward by the stretch forcing outward. Shrinking the center damage will start the process of relieving the stresses pushing outward, relaxing some of the bulge surrounding the dent. After a bit of shrinking, using the shot bag against the outside of the crease/dent and some light taps with a flat body hammer or ******* from the inside will help to start manipulating the crease/dent back into it's original place. I would add that too much shrinking all at once may give you the loose oil can, so profile templates are highly recommended as they work well to let you see how the panel is reacting so you don't go too far too quick.

Tight oil can, part two:

Where some tight oil cans from dents may be challenging to determine where to start your shrinking (if it doesn't have an obvious sharp crease to show where to work from) the following process will normally find the area that needs shrinking.... Cycle the oil can in and out a couple times in order to find the outer perimeter. If it helps to mark it with some painters tape, a sharpie, so be it, use whatever works. Now using your thumb from one hand apply slight pressure on a point on this perimeter. Use the other hand to cycle the oil can again, using the same pressure as before. Keep moving your pressure point around the perimeter and cycle the oil can for each spot until you get to a point on the perimeter where the pressure will keep the oil can from cycling, it locks it from moving. This should identify your "sweet spot" that needs shrinking, and there may be more than one sweet spot

Loose oil can:

This is typically caused by welding, over-eager torch shrinking, or shrinking something when you should have stretched, (or fatigue over the many years that has caused a larger panel/hood to settle). Any panel will shrink from heat, causing the crown to draw in from the surrounding area. This is especially noted by a loose, easily flopped back and forth oil can. This is fixed by stretching, typically in the area of the weld and HAZ.

Loose oil can part two:

In some cases we'll see that a dent (or tight oil can) has actually caused a loose oil can in the outer reaches in the adjacent area. The direct force (dent) may have caused displacement of the inherent stresses of the panel (crown) such that it pulled at the adjacent metal elsewhere, resulting in a loose oil can outside the area of the dent. Here the loose oil can should be left alone and focus on removing the stretched area (dent) that moved the panel. Once the dent is removed, this action alone should correct the loose oil can in the adjacent area.