MP&C Shop Projects

ch1 · Sep 10, 2015

MP&C said:
Colin, those pinch weld seams on the cabs have long been a trouble spot for moisture collection and rust generation. It's one of the main reason we got rid of those type seams, to help it last longer the second time around. Got a picture of your areas in question?

Here are a couple of pictures. The cab seam is pretty self explanatory. The fender I would like to weld to the box side. I will also have to install wheel tubs on the inside.

Colin

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MP&C · Sep 11, 2015

I've seen that rear seam on those cabs done by sandblasting and then mig or tig the seam full.. The issue I see is all this extra weld down through the middle of a panel may show a ghost line in the same manner as the extra mass on a flange weld seam.. Extra mass has slower heat expansion rates, it may show. If it were me doing this mod, I would cut out the flanges and **** weld the panels together.

On the fender, this would be less likely to show as it's not in the center of a panel.. it's down inside a corner. But such a permanent mod on a panel that is readily susceptible to damage may cause quite a bit of work if the unfortunate happens... Something to consider. :dunno:

MP&C · Sep 12, 2015

Well there has been a slight break in the updates, as I've been in Okinawa for about a month. Not to fear, Kyle has been plugging away on the wagon, it even has a floor in it, as you can see here...

He did get a quite a bit of blocking done while I was gone....

And did get some wet sanding done on a few of the interior trim pieces. Today he started on the rear floor, part of the problem with welding a flat plate is that it doesn't stay flat. The plug welds to secure the floor to the bracing beneath caused some shrinking, which resulted in the metal between bulging outward, some up, some down. Looks about like the Atlantic on a calm day.

Today, as I was going to be wet sanding, he was going to try some torch shrinking. To better make this a one person job with minimal risk of open flame, we thought to give the "electric" torch a go.

The plastic dust pan served as a tray to hold the wet rag, keeping it in closer proximity to where it was needed and attempt to limit the amount of water elsewhere. The results showed quite an improvement, and it's in need of some bumping at this point..

But alas, the gas tank is in the way, so we will likely get the body back on the rotisserie here soon in an effort to get the remaining prep prior to paint completed.

Meanwhile, I was wet sanding and couldn't find the squeegee, so a trip to the local Ace Hardware at lunch, and we had a replacement. Works well, and no metal hardware on this new one to add any scratches....

Exterior of the hood is about done...

Divcod · Sep 13, 2015

Robert,

Welcome back. Do you always use forced cooling, wet rag etc, when shrinking? Seems there are two schools of thoughts on the impact of hardening the metal from rapid cooling and decreased shrinking. Not sure it would be a major issue on the floor panel.

Second question are you wet sanding epoxy? Painters I've talk to switch to polyester .

mustangmike6996 · Sep 13, 2015

Amazing work!

white6589 · Sep 13, 2015

MP&C said:
Well there has been a slight break in the updates, as I've been in Okinawa for about a month. Not to fear, Kyle has been plugging away on the wagon, it even has a floor in it, as you can see here...

Looks like Kyle has done some fine unsupervised work while you were away.

Must be due to a good instructor.

MP&C · Sep 13, 2015

Thanks for the comments guys. To clarify, the floors were already done, Kyle uncovered them.. :lol_hitti

Dave, responses in blue...

Divcod said:
Robert,

Welcome back. Do you always use forced cooling, wet rag etc, when shrinking?

Typically, no. The only benefit I see to a forced cooling in this case is that it speeds up the process that you can see the results and move to the next spot. When welding, I see no benefit to forced cooling whatsoever. Some claim less panel distortion, but I've yet to see proof. It's going to shrink what it's going to shrink.

Seems there are two schools of thoughts on the impact of hardening the metal from rapid cooling and decreased shrinking. Not sure it would be a major issue on the floor panel.

The flat panel in the rear of the car was a piece of 16 ga hot rolled that the owner had, so we used it to save some money. Hindsight the great educator, flat seldom stays that way, and the mill scale is a pain to remove, especially compared to the ease of prep on cold rolled. If I did the same today, it would be 19 or 18 cold rolled with some bead details added for strength. When done welding you wouldn't have the issues we do now..

Second question are you wet sanding epoxy? Painters I've talk to switch to polyester .

Yes, wet sanding. The painters you talk to, are they collision repair guys or restoration guys? The products used by the collision industry typically are used in order to get the vehicle out the door in about three days. Now I'm not saying what I'm doing is right :willy_nil

but IMO an epoxy with high build characteristics will better adhere to itself and will have less adverse adhesion or compatibility reaction issues than any polyester thrown in the mix. Even though I used Slick Sand on the Fairlane build. But I did seal it with epoxy afterward, that's got to say something.

For motorcycle work, I always used epoxy as the "high build" and never had any issue with gas spills peeling paint or any such defects.

Kevin54 · Sep 13, 2015

Would putting any ribs in the floor made any difference? And wouldn't the floor from the factory have had some sort of ribs in it? And if so, why did you just put a flat plate in instead of using your bead roller to add some ribs? :dunno:

MP&C · Sep 13, 2015

Kevin54 said:
Would putting any ribs in the floor made any difference? And wouldn't the floor from the factory have had some sort of ribs in it? And if so, why did you just put a flat plate in instead of using your bead roller to add some ribs?

Some form of bead detail would have helped, but this piece had been welded in prior to me having the bead roller. The factory version of this floor also included a cavity for the spare tire, and the wagon fuel tank is shaped similar to an hour glass as it sits between a tire well and a rear end. These leave little room for exhaust with the leaf springs moved inward to allow larger tires. So we eliminated those features to be able to use the sedan fuel tank, move the leaf springs inward, and add dual exhaust..

MP&C · Sep 15, 2015

Well last night I picked up a winch and an engine hoist, if all goes well we should see lift off this evening. Kyle will stop by after school and get all the unbolting prep ready...

wbrian63 · Sep 15, 2015

Question about bead rollers:

How do you get a bead in the middle of a sheet? I've got a roller, but don't have the slightest idea how to do anything other than starting from the edge.

MP&C · Sep 15, 2015

My bead roller has a "jack screw" that comes down from the top to add pressure to the wheels. To start in the center of a panel, release the pressure, position, then rotate the jack screw to add pressure, then roll.

MP&C · Sep 15, 2015

The last time we removed the car from the frame we used two engine hoists, which proved to be a bit cumbersome and a pain to get the frame rolled out. So I thought to try something different, this time an engine hoist at the front, and a winch in the back. Needing an anchor point for the winch, I welded this up last night to span two of the shop's trusses from overhead....

Rear lift eyes use the tailgate hinge nut plates...

Front lifting eyes bolt to the hinge mounts on the firewall...

We have lift-off!

The frame has a bit of welds left to do and we can clean it up and get it to the powder coaters...

Dana helping out tonight...

One way to clean it out...

Here's the framework added to support the fuel tank and rear floor..

This shows how nice access is for prepping, works equally well in painting..

stinkity stoink · Sep 16, 2015

Great stuff Robert!!! Always look forward to you're posts.

MP&C · Sep 17, 2015

Thanks Dave!

Updated list for Maryland Peter Tommasini class, two weeks to go! I may need to sweep up a bit... :willy_nil

Kyle Cusic
Scott Burnett
Dave Havlir
Dan Norton
Joe Mato
Howard Wentworth
Jeff Hain-Matson
Charlie Cerutti

Standby list:

Sean OHarra
Rob Towers

AnthonyN · Sep 18, 2015

Hi Robert, did you make the rotisserie yourself? I have been thinking about making one and have been looking at some plans that are posted online.

MP&C · Sep 18, 2015

Yes, made it myself. Here's the build thread with plans...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50630

AnthonyN · Sep 18, 2015

Terrific! Thanks!

MP&C · Sep 19, 2015

Glad to help!

Todays progress, we've had to move the frame a couple times and it becomes a chore to steer, so a 1" bolt was modified with a home made steering wheel. Works well, good thing there's no weight on the front end!

....and Kyle's been busy getting the bare metal prepped for epoxy..

Picked up some stump blanks last night to have some extra stations for the class...

This afternoon, Debarking with a draw knife...

Kyle took over as I used the chain saw to cut some to length...

This one is about all the JD bucket could stand..

....and some Talstar to take care of any remaining ant domiciles.

shortykorte · Sep 21, 2015

Well the stumps have me stumped?

MP&C · Sep 21, 2015

Here's Johnny showing some stump shrinking...

TimeWarpF100 · Sep 22, 2015

Fender Update. UPS says late trailer delayed it a bit. Shows by end of day tomorrow.

"09/18/2015 11:00 P.M. A late UPS trailer arrival has caused a delay. We're adjusting plans to deliver your package as quickly as possible. / Delivery will be rescheduled."

MP&C · Sep 24, 2015

UPS dropped off my project for the metalshaping class... Going to see how close I can get to duplicating a scooter fender... Thanks Randy!

Kyle's moving on to prepping the "outside" of the floor pans..

TimeWarpF100 · Sep 24, 2015

MP&C said:
UPS dropped off my project for the metalshaping class... Going to see how close I can get to duplicating a scooter fender... Thanks Randy!

Kyle's moving on to prepping the "outside" of the floor pans..

Thank You!

The oblong holes are for back hoop. Other holes closer to middle are tail light mounting (dented there)

Here is the only Factory Photo I have been able to find in 20yrs of looking.

The scooter has been in family since at least 1964. I remember going to pick it up with our Maroon 1959 Jeep Panel.

To give an idea here is only pic I can find of it. My older brother is one standing on scooter and he just turned 60 this past Sunday! So minimum it will be 52yrs next spring.

I was only one interesting in hanging on to it so dad gave it to me back many years ago.

I have decided to paint it to match the EcoProject.

E12-535iTurbo · Sep 25, 2015

I'm really curious how you will shape that fender. I'm hoping for lots of pictures and explanation as I'm planning to duplicate one for my bike as well. Although I'd love to do one in stainless and polish afterwards. The original is chromed but has predrilled holes where I don't want to have holes also there is a lot of rust.

chevouier · Sep 25, 2015

hi great work you do being reading your posts for along time just a quick question the low spots around the weld on bottom of gaurd is that a haz zone or undercut thank you mark

36racin · Sep 26, 2015

Would some type of media blasting be easier for the undercarriage and insides of the car?

MP&C · Sep 27, 2015

We're checking this week with a local machine shop to see if we can get the body media blasted... should be a much quicker prep for the epoxy..

In the meantime, the downside to plug welds and mig welds.... cleaning up all those welds..

Kyle working on more welds..

...and to get ready for the class next week, we put all the 55 parts away in the paint booth...

shortykorte · Sep 28, 2015

Thanks. Now if I can steal my wife's Husband Attitude Adjuster, I can build a mallet.

MP&C · Sep 28, 2015

Are you sure she won't be needing it? :lol:

MP&C · Sep 29, 2015

Getting ready for the metal shaping class at the shop this week, picked up Peter today from the airport.

Last night Kyle and I made a pedestal for some home-made stake anvils using a couple 45 lb dumbbells and some pipe/tubing, tonight made the round-head anvil and another with a holder for press brake dies....

.....and stopped by the upholstery shop this morning to get another shot bag stitched up...

Counting the hours!

MP&C · Sep 30, 2015

A few of the projects showed up this evening for the class, more to come tomorrow....

One of the attendees brought a CP hammer for us to use...

I'm going to have to get Peter here more often, forces me to clean up the place!

nine4gmc · Sep 30, 2015

Looks awesome, be sure to have pics taken during the meet!

1/2 Cup · Sep 30, 2015

Robert, I always look forward to you updates, you guys do some awesome work. :bowdown:

Many thanks for sharing in detail how go about things.

I am looking forward to see how you classes go with Peter.

Regards

MP&C · Oct 1, 2015

Thanks guys, Here are some of the highlights of today's class....

Peter shows how to prepare a stump for shrinking....

Discussing weld location in panel forming....

Using magnets to hold a paper pattern for layout....

Wheeling, tuck shrinking and annealing aluminum sheet...

Capturing the tuck and shrinking on aluminum sheet

Blocking and wheeling our 19 gauge steel fender panel...

Forming the rear corner for a Model A..

Blocking on the sand bags and shrinking on the stump....

Wheeling....

Ohmthis · Oct 2, 2015

Robert, so far the class looks like a hit. If you host another class hopefully I can come. I'm in Disney world this week and would much rather be learning and beating some metal. Thanks again for keeping us updated.