bradpac
Well-known member
Beautiful, inspiring work
MP&C Shop Projects
- Thread starter MP&C
- Start date
xtremek
Well-known member
Always a pleasure.
TimeWarpF100
Well-known member
Thanks for all the good update stuff! Nice to see engine fire up!More progress on the (second) fan shroud, but I had a request to show the process in greater detail.. So we'll start with the beginning.
First was the layout of the bend line, and then the cut line was located about 3" inside of that. (I'm using some of the pictures from our first attempt as our shop photographer missed some the second time around)
The initial stretch was done using a blocking hammer on the top (flat area) of the stump, primarily at the inside edge as that needed the most stretch.
On our first attempt we had a hammer form that was used to "set" the bend line with a crowned body hammer as we added the first bit of stretch.
This seemed a bit cumbersome, and the second version I used a bent portion of round stock that was in the scrap pile, added a piece of pipe for a handle, and the band saw added a slice for a new tipping tool. The bend in the tipping tool gave it a built in fulcrum. Normally a tipping operation tries to pull the adjacent material along as the bend forms. In this case we set the panel on a table and used the bend (fulcrum) of the tipping tool against the table to pull the stretched area downward. This allows us to push down on the handle to elevate the panel off the table, and to push downward on the flat panel outside the bend line with the palm of your hand. This does a good job of placing the bend where needed without pulling adjacent metal along for the ride. Even though the pictures show the stretched area upward, the panel was placed with this area downward when using the tipping tool..
This worked much better at setting the bend line than the hammer form, and it was surprisingly accurate.
Much of the stretch was done using linear stretch dies on the power hammer, but we also reverted back to the blocking hammer and stump to better focus the stretch locations.
The other issue to overcome with both hammer operations was that they didn't play nice with keeping the shroud in a flat vertical. So the next tool used was a 90 durometer pad of polyurethane and the Model A leaf spring hammer. The hammer face was too short to match the shroud height (approx 3") so three passes were done to cover the entire height and with each pass the hammer hits were about 1/8" or so apart.
The bulk of the stretch was done on the power hammer, and the front of the lower die holder is missing quite a bit of paint from this job...
The completed bend, we started with .044 thickness (18 gauge) and it was thinned to .029 thick, or lost about 1/3 thickness to turn the 90...
Pressingonward
Well-known member
The wagon looks and sounds great! Thanks for reposting the tin snip video, I need a refresher 
Thanks guys!!
Just one of them would have been a find.. When I saw the pair advertised, I couldn't pass them up..
More progress... using our rare earth magnets on the end of the bead roller die to correct the "back spacing", the fan shroud has the center bead added...
Next, adding the outer joggle for the wire. Our last mis-step at this stage was expecting a folded flange to perform as it did on a flat piece of metal.. But as a full circle with 1/2" of flange, it tends to resist any change in diameter, so our efforts to add the joggle (stretch outward) were met with catastrophic failure in the way of a split. This next attempt will leave that edge straight out instead of flanged, such that it will be more apt to move/stretch as we need it to.. Additionally, our dies will have a backstop built in and include two bead forming details. One will follow the center bead already installed, and with the back stop as part of the die, should correct any wiggle our bead roller may have added. Having both bead details added to the dies will also help to maintain correct spacing throughout. As these beading dies tend to pull material from either side, having multiple beads makes it more of a challenge to pull sufficient material for both and have enough for the bead height.. Adding one prior using the bead roller means we will only be "pulling" material for the one, for better results.
Our test sample shows the wrap for the wire straighter to the side, for less resistance to adding the offset.
Shroud is then trimmed to size and run through the dies on the Lennox..
This did give us a slight potato chip shape of the panel, so the offset was stretched in the Erco..
Our tubing straightener is used to make our 3/16 wire more concentric for an easier install..
Then the wire was test fit...
Mike got our interior assembly and wiring started, the rear tail light / fuel door actuator was installed, the sub box and amp installed, and our relays for the fuel door mounted adjacent to the amp, all tucked away behind the rear seat.
I want those cabinets
Just one of them would have been a find.. When I saw the pair advertised, I couldn't pass them up..
More progress... using our rare earth magnets on the end of the bead roller die to correct the "back spacing", the fan shroud has the center bead added...
Next, adding the outer joggle for the wire. Our last mis-step at this stage was expecting a folded flange to perform as it did on a flat piece of metal.. But as a full circle with 1/2" of flange, it tends to resist any change in diameter, so our efforts to add the joggle (stretch outward) were met with catastrophic failure in the way of a split. This next attempt will leave that edge straight out instead of flanged, such that it will be more apt to move/stretch as we need it to.. Additionally, our dies will have a backstop built in and include two bead forming details. One will follow the center bead already installed, and with the back stop as part of the die, should correct any wiggle our bead roller may have added. Having both bead details added to the dies will also help to maintain correct spacing throughout. As these beading dies tend to pull material from either side, having multiple beads makes it more of a challenge to pull sufficient material for both and have enough for the bead height.. Adding one prior using the bead roller means we will only be "pulling" material for the one, for better results.
Our test sample shows the wrap for the wire straighter to the side, for less resistance to adding the offset.
Shroud is then trimmed to size and run through the dies on the Lennox..
This did give us a slight potato chip shape of the panel, so the offset was stretched in the Erco..
Our tubing straightener is used to make our 3/16 wire more concentric for an easier install..
Then the wire was test fit...
Mike got our interior assembly and wiring started, the rear tail light / fuel door actuator was installed, the sub box and amp installed, and our relays for the fuel door mounted adjacent to the amp, all tucked away behind the rear seat.
xtremek
Well-known member
Always a pleasure to see your updates.
WoodsTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 1,019
I think there is one major thing I have learned reading through this thread specifically. The end result is often the result of the time spent building the special tool needed for the job. I'm usually in such a hurry with getting to the end zone that I don't take the time to build the right jig or fitting to make the end result I'm after. Now that I am more likely to slow down and enjoy building the tools to finish the job I'm often more proud of the tool than the original project.
Excellent work and I really appreciate your photos and description on how you were able to accomplish the tasks.
Excellent work and I really appreciate your photos and description on how you were able to accomplish the tasks.
stinkity stoink
Well-known member
Even the details on the fan shroud are incredible. I’m pretty certain nobody will realize the time and effort put into that by just looking. I would bet they think you just bought it. Great work and really appreciate the documentation!!
jimkinney
Well-known member
Wow, just wow.
Your bead roller looks like it needs a new motor. That one takes a lot of breaks.
Your bead roller looks like it needs a new motor. That one takes a lot of breaks.
Thanks, I think a lot of it stems from us working nights and weekends, you find out what you ordered doesn't fit or don't feel like waiting on something if you did order it or it's not available, so we've done quite a bit of fabrication because of it... Do what it takes..
Two piece and it would have been done by now, but sometimes you do something just to see if you can, and what it would take to do so. I think you learn so much more by not taking the easy road.. Like why on earth did I do that?
Thanks Dave!Jim, there may be a slight miss....
More progress on the fan shroud... Wire edging!! In order to stave off any rust issue as long as we can, I normally treat the wire channel to epoxy primer from the inside-out. So we used a scotchbrite pad and some Ivory liquid in warm water to remove any last remnants of the WD40 used for the last shaping effort on the Lennox.
Our wire had been test fitted, sized, and tig welded together to form a continuous ring. This adds tremendous strength to the edge and helps to maintain a concentric circle. The wire was then cleaned as well. SPI epoxy was hand applied (acid brush) to the channel, the wire ring pressed in place (it was that tight) and then any bare spots on the ring epoxied as well..
The vise grips hold the wire snug to the bottom of the channel until the edge of the flange can be staked in place. Wire edging process, done using our cone anvil, various hammers, and a 90 durometer polyurethane pad for the final closure of the wrap..
At the point we were hammering, the epoxy had set up approx 10-15 minutes, so it was not dry yet, but not running either. We'll let the epoxy set a couple days and get additional coats in the slight gap at the edge of the wrap in order to seal things well for rust prevention.
And our inside dimension worked out to what we were looking for, 18-1/8 diameter for our 17-1/4 fan blade.
We also got another delivery, some 4" louver dies from Mittler Bros Machine and Tool for another job coming up. Will have to sneak it in here on some wagon parts as well.
Our wire had been test fitted, sized, and tig welded together to form a continuous ring. This adds tremendous strength to the edge and helps to maintain a concentric circle. The wire was then cleaned as well. SPI epoxy was hand applied (acid brush) to the channel, the wire ring pressed in place (it was that tight) and then any bare spots on the ring epoxied as well..
The vise grips hold the wire snug to the bottom of the channel until the edge of the flange can be staked in place. Wire edging process, done using our cone anvil, various hammers, and a 90 durometer polyurethane pad for the final closure of the wrap..
At the point we were hammering, the epoxy had set up approx 10-15 minutes, so it was not dry yet, but not running either. We'll let the epoxy set a couple days and get additional coats in the slight gap at the edge of the wrap in order to seal things well for rust prevention.
And our inside dimension worked out to what we were looking for, 18-1/8 diameter for our 17-1/4 fan blade.
We also got another delivery, some 4" louver dies from Mittler Bros Machine and Tool for another job coming up. Will have to sneak it in here on some wagon parts as well.
TimeWarpF100
Well-known member
How about some pics of the actual car? Be nice to see it more often as it all comes together . .
BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Question from the peanut gallery.
What is "draped with shark grip"
I searched, but could only find paint additives for traction.
I have projects in my shop that are in final paint and have fabrication going on as well.
Just want to make sure I don't miss a better way to protect.
Thanks Robert!
What is "draped with shark grip"
I searched, but could only find paint additives for traction.
I have projects in my shop that are in final paint and have fabrication going on as well.
Just want to make sure I don't miss a better way to protect.
Thanks Robert!
Looks like I morphed the name a little. Should have said Shark Skin, but there are variants of it by 3M and other manufacturers. It’s a light plastic used to drape off a car in painting environment and has a slight amount of static to help it stay where you put it. Comes in either 12’ or 16’ wide rolls by about 400’.
BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Thank you Robert.
Looking at the fan shroud, the top and bottom will be stepped where it bolts behind the rear edge of the core support.
The sides will get a radius bend to bolt to the inside vertical of the core support. This still leave quite a bit of flat metal that just doesn't have much style to it. So let's try some embossing on the side panels.. To better keep things a consistent pattern from left to right, we made a pattern using MDF board..
An offset die set is made in the Southbend lathe, the rounded sides will allow it to better travel along the pattern cutout.
We did a test run on our split original shroud, I had intended for the pattern to be inset when looking at the back.. Someone had the pattern clamped on the wrong side, and it was pressed outward instead.. Hindsight, when looking in the engine compartment from the side, the inset version would be more difficult to see the embossing, and this next "mistake" would be easier to see.
Sometimes things happen for a reason. So guess what we're going with.... The pattern did not have enough real estate to make a wide sweeping turn in the corners, so when using the dies we'll stop short of the corners and will coin them afterward by hand. Time lapse:
We did have one slip-up, should be an easy fix...
Looks a bit less blah now....
The sides will get a radius bend to bolt to the inside vertical of the core support. This still leave quite a bit of flat metal that just doesn't have much style to it. So let's try some embossing on the side panels.. To better keep things a consistent pattern from left to right, we made a pattern using MDF board..
An offset die set is made in the Southbend lathe, the rounded sides will allow it to better travel along the pattern cutout.
We did a test run on our split original shroud, I had intended for the pattern to be inset when looking at the back.. Someone had the pattern clamped on the wrong side, and it was pressed outward instead.. Hindsight, when looking in the engine compartment from the side, the inset version would be more difficult to see the embossing, and this next "mistake" would be easier to see.
Sometimes things happen for a reason. So guess what we're going with.... The pattern did not have enough real estate to make a wide sweeping turn in the corners, so when using the dies we'll stop short of the corners and will coin them afterward by hand. Time lapse:
We did have one slip-up, should be an easy fix...
Looks a bit less blah now....
stinkity stoink
Well-known member
That definitely looks less blah !! Lol …great job !
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
NICE work on the fan shroud, Robert!
xtremek
Well-known member
Always a pleasure to see your work.
joe49
Well-known member
Great job !
67CarGuy
Well-known member
I keep coming back for the write-ups and tips, and am always impressed by your skills! Thanks for continuing to share and teach!
SM Racing
Well-known member
Saw this Shroud in person at the Redneck Roundup and it is an impressive piece of work. Robert, you have some impressive skills. Thanks for the tips on making the piece for the Mercedes spare tire well patches.
Brett
Brett
xtremek
Well-known member
Haven't seen an update from you in a while. Hope everything is going well.
Bowtie4life
Well-known member
Nice work Robert as usual!!!!
Sorry for the hiatus, more travel for the day job.. hanging more TV's...
Back on the wagon, sometimes I get ahead of myself. The core support has rounded corners at the bottom....
Our embossing did not....
So the lower embossing was flattened, and marked for the new..
Next on the list, our upper radiator hose is a bit long and needed some support to keep it out of the fan. It's actually a lower hose for a Ford Explorer, but is a perfect fit for our cross flow radiator. So some 16 gauge cold rolled steel is used to fabricate a support bracket..
Next, we had moved the battery from the OEM location on the firewall to the dealer installed Air Conditioning location behind the core support. This has the battery in close proximity to the passenger side header, so we punched some louvers on the core supports side baffle to allow for air flow.
Back on the wagon, sometimes I get ahead of myself. The core support has rounded corners at the bottom....
Our embossing did not....
So the lower embossing was flattened, and marked for the new..
Next on the list, our upper radiator hose is a bit long and needed some support to keep it out of the fan. It's actually a lower hose for a Ford Explorer, but is a perfect fit for our cross flow radiator. So some 16 gauge cold rolled steel is used to fabricate a support bracket..
Next, we had moved the battery from the OEM location on the firewall to the dealer installed Air Conditioning location behind the core support. This has the battery in close proximity to the passenger side header, so we punched some louvers on the core supports side baffle to allow for air flow.
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xtremek
Well-known member
No need to apologize, just glad you're safe and healthy. Also glad you posted about your miscalculation. Nice recovery. Always love seeing your work. It opens my mind on how to approach things.
Ohmthis
Well-known member
Robert, I’ve been following along for a long while. Your work looks amazing as ever! Thanks for posting up the mistakes too. It gives us mere mortals ideas to fix our mistakes.
Bowtie4life
Well-known member
Great work on this episode of the fabrication work you have done to the wagon Robert!!! Man..........I look at your fabrications tools and when you have an open house again, would love to come down and learn a few things from you.
Ever since I got rid of my radial arm drill press years ago to make room for a band saw, I’ve been searching for the more compact replacement. Yesterday was that day. Small enough to hide in a corner, yet big enough to do the job. Nice and quiet too. Got to love quality tools/machinery
Bowtie4life
Well-known member
Nice find for your shop Robert!!!
txvwnut
Well-known member
Man that thing looks like it only a few years old. Nice find.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Nice find, Robert! That’s a pretty pristine example. Hard to find one without “The arc of shame”Ever since I got rid of my radial arm drill press years ago to make room for a band saw, I’ve been searching for the more compact replacement. Yesterday was that day. Small enough to hide in a corner, yet big enough to do the job. Nice and quiet too. Got to love quality tools/machinery
Wagon progress! So Jared has been tackling the fun task of prepping interior trim pieces, getting them ready for another round of epoxy..
Another modification we're undertaking, the air cleaner, when mocked up on the engine, showed a tight proximity to the back of the AC compressor. Looking at the clearance we had to the firewall, moving backward 1" will give us much needed breathing room for the AC lines. So out with the old ....
And to move rearward, the mounting hole is moved forward one inch..
Next in store is a new bottom for the air cleaner..
A hammerform is used to give us a folded lip out the bottom
Another modification we're undertaking, the air cleaner, when mocked up on the engine, showed a tight proximity to the back of the AC compressor. Looking at the clearance we had to the firewall, moving backward 1" will give us much needed breathing room for the AC lines. So out with the old ....
And to move rearward, the mounting hole is moved forward one inch..
Next in store is a new bottom for the air cleaner..
A hammerform is used to give us a folded lip out the bottom
Teach me something….what is the first step on that hammer form process for initiating the turning up of that inside lip. I cannot tell from the vids(or missed it). in other words…do you just pound that bend into it…
thanks…great thread as well…been following for quite a while.
thanks…great thread as well…been following for quite a while.
At this point we need to hem the flange so the bottom isn't quite so sharp..
A 1/2 x 1/2 aluminum angle is used as a height gauge so we can use the roloc sander to get our flange to a consistent height. This will allow us to use a tipping die in the bead roller to fold the hem..
Then the part is re-installed in the hammer form to hammer the hem flat..
A 1/2 x 1/2 aluminum angle is used as a height gauge so we can use the roloc sander to get our flange to a consistent height. This will allow us to use a tipping die in the bead roller to fold the hem..
Then the part is re-installed in the hammer form to hammer the hem flat..
Thanks for the question!! So we are trying to tip the flat over to a perpendicular (90*) so the first concern is that a flat body hammer has sharp edges and will leave excessive marks in the metal. So you want a radius faced hammer but not one so round it puts in dents.. So the hammer shown in the first video is a small blocking hammer which did a good job. I would add, this process is done incrementally. Start hitting the innermost part as it will need the most stretching, and then continue to reposition with each successive round in an attempt to keep what you're hammering over "flat". The more distorted you make it, the more difficult the task of getting things smooth in the end, so finesse normally wins over heft. As with anything metalshaping, our efforts shouldn't add extra work to clean up what we just did. IE: refine the process as needed.
Thank you…as with most things…patience is a virtue…
now, I need a new project and, of course, new tools…