Mr. Heater Big Maxx cheap

[MrSurly]

Find the GJ jack thread it’s exactly the same as this thread right down to the clear conscience/ not my problem/ I got my cheap jack.........when others were saying just the opposite.

A major aspect of what the scammers (thieves) are doing is "insulating" the unwitting.
Consider this scenario:
You find a great deal on Craigslist on a car. Even if it's brand new. He bought it for his kid, got mad at the kid, decided to not give him the car, dealer won't help him so he's selling a new car for a good price. You meet up, pay cash (not a ridiculous price, just a good deal, factory warranty, etc) and a clear title.
You're done, the car and title is legit.
A couple days later you learn that the seller embezzled a bunch of money from his employer.
Now, what's your position? Are you holding ill-gotten gains?
How do you address it? Try to sell the car back to the guy?
Determine how many dollars you saved, send the money to his employer?
Give the car to the dealership he bought it from?
No, I’m SERIOUS. What do you do to assuage your ‘guilt’?
Next, you learn that the embezzlement happened five years ago.
Is this different?
Why?
I'm curious about your position on your depth of responsibility for the morality of others, how far do you go with that angle?



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[pbon]

Maybe we could start a new philosophy thread.

 

[MrSurly]

Maybe we could start a new philosophy thread.

Hah ha!! Thinking the same


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[Backlight]

Here is my guess..

Website is being run fraudulently. Buyer pays for heater via paypal to random paypal account. Criminals running site place order with Northern tool using stolen credit cards. Card is accepted and Northern drop ships the heater to your home (hence the Northern manifest). Criminals have your funds, you have your heater, all is well but credit card company and/or Northern (most likely credit card company) takes the loss on the fraud.

Pretty much called it from what's been reported to date. Does not mean anyone should have known but it's pretty clear on what is taking place. Unfortunate that honest people end up funding criminal enterprise at the cost of all consumers (we all pay for theft/fraud) without even being aware.

 

[Motolark]

I filed a not as described complaint with PayPal. I got a instant response saying seller cannot respond. So I escalated the claim. This was 3 days ago. Today I got a email from the cama store with a screen shot of the claim. Saying they are willing to help however they can. Still no response through paypal from them. And there is no way in hell I'm giving them any more info on me.

 

[pbon]

They are just stalling to get another 30 days of scamming in before they get shut down and have to change to another one of the 100 websites they probably have. And no member of the team likely had more than a few thousand in his PayPal account before changing to a new one. It’s the Wild West of the 21st century.

 

[Tica]

Would seem the breakdown came when neither the original transaction credit card nor the vendor flagged shipments to an address other that the transaction credit card billing address. That's often a red flag and is supposedly detected in the "Verified by Visa" or similar credit card vetting programs. I could see using a different address in a city (perhaps a loading dock at your place of employment, etc.) but to ship it to someone hundreds of miles away with no questions asked?

Wouldn't matter with Paypal because Paypal did not pay for the items, it just paid the drop shipper. Paypal typically will not ship to an address that is not on the account without removing all buyer and/or seller protections.

 

[willf650]

Well my heater arrived and as expected it has my shipping info and someone else's billing info. It also has the full price of the heater on the invoice. I contacted Northern Tool trying to get a definitive answer on this and the customer service rep said the account it was purchased with looks suspicious. It has a bunch of different billing addresses and a bunch of shipping address. The customer service lady also said this order probably should have gotten flagged. If it was a authorized re-seller than there shouldn't be a bunch of different billing info. Hopefully they will step up and close whatever loop hole the seller is using and shut them down for at least Northern's side of the chain.

The unfortunate thing is I don't want it. I ordered the 50,000 BTU model and immediately contacted the seller to get it changed to the 80,000 btu model. I got two responses saying it would be changed and they would send me an invoice for the difference. That never happened and I got shipped the 50,000 btu model and believe its will be way to small to even bother installing. I have a 30 x 36 pole with no real insulation and 12' ceilings and believe the 80,000 btu would only be marginal.

 

[willf650]

Well PayPal literally doesn’t care. Northern cares but there it’s to late.

PayPal will literally just let this happen and even when you tell them they just put there head in the sand.


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[Motolark]

Well I got a counter offer to take a $200 partial refund. PayPal just did not care. I'm taking the $200 as a insurance in case someone takes this thing back. Probably won't happen but just in case. So that means I got a 80k unit for $119. I think everyone should file for a refind. Let's scam the scammers! ����

 

[MrSurly]

Who/how is paying the refund?
PayPal?
Direct from camape?
Northern?
I wonder who actually gets to take that hit.

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[willf650]

PayPal closed my dispute and sided with the seller since I got the item. I reopened it and submitted the invoice I got with the billing info of someone in Washington state. As I said PayPal literally doesn't care.



Edit: I just cancelled my dispute. Who ever this scammer is has my name ,address and email. I'm dropping it out of fear of repercussions to me. I guess he got away with it and PayPal doesn't care so why should I put myself on the line to have the same fraud happen to me when they have a head start on my info.

 

[Motolark]

Who/how is paying the refund?
PayPal?
Direct from camape?
Northern?
I wonder who actually gets to take that hit.

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It was the rep from cama store. Through one of the fake PayPal names. Not PayPal! Not northern tool!

 

[bubinga]

As long as Paypal got there money, They are happy.

 

[Varty Yo]

Any links for cheap heater? (legit) or whatnot

 

[MrSurly]

Any links for cheap heater? (legit) or whatnot

In this very thread in the last few pages


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[Varty Yo]

Oh must have missed it i just saw OP say he deleted links.

Thanks

 

[bczygan]

Location of the Cama store:

 

[D45]

Not saying you cant run a business out of your home, but..........

Cama Store
7045 Penfield Ave
Los Angeles, CA 90067

Looks like a house.........

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Los-Angeles/7045-Penfield-Ave-91306/home/3929673

Owner Name: Norman L Fullner

 

[biggziff]

Oooohhhhh!!!

internet detectives

 

[bczygan]

Anyone tried ordering lately?

They are still offered on the website.

Anyone actually talk to them?

Bill

 

[Tica]

Million dollar home. Per Linkedin - an area insurance executive has owned and occupied it for several years. Appears to have 5-6 people living there. Why is the domain hidden in Panama?

Domain Name: CAMAPE.NET
Registry Domain ID: 1945312470_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: www.enom.com
Updated Date: 2016-07-02T22:27:12.00Z
Creation Date: 2015-07-07T17:40:00.00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-07-07T17:40:00.00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Registrant Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Registrant Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Registrant City: PANAMA
Registrant State/Province: PANAMA
Registrant Postal Code: 00000
Registrant Country: PA
Registrant Phone: +507.8365503
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +51.17057182
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Admin Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Admin Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Admin City: PANAMA
Admin State/Province: PANAMA
Admin Postal Code: 00000
Admin Country: PA
Admin Phone: +507.8365503
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +51.17057182
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: [email protected]
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Tech Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Tech Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Tech City: PANAMA
Tech State/Province: PANAMA
Tech Postal Code: 00000
Tech Country: PA
Tech Phone: +507.8365503
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +51.17057182
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:

 

[shaggyant]

Anyone tried ordering lately?

They are still offered on the website.

Anyone actually talk to them?

Bill

What I have noticed is that the 80,000 and 50,000 BTU Big Maxx are no longer available from Northern Tool. Are we sure this wasn’t a close out deal?

https://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200577751_200577751?adv=false

 

[ripperd]

Million dollar home. Per Linkedin - an area insurance executive has owned and occupied it for several years. Appears to have 5-6 people living there. Why is the domain hidden in Panama?

Domain Name: CAMAPE.NET
Registry Domain ID: 1945312470_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: www.enom.com
Updated Date: 2016-07-02T22:27:12.00Z
Creation Date: 2015-07-07T17:40:00.00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-07-07T17:40:00.00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Registrant Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Registrant Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Registrant City: PANAMA
Registrant State/Province: PANAMA
Registrant Postal Code: 00000
Registrant Country: PA
Registrant Phone: +507.8365503
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +51.17057182
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Admin Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Admin Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Admin City: PANAMA
Admin State/Province: PANAMA
Admin Postal Code: 00000
Admin Country: PA
Admin Phone: +507.8365503
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +51.17057182
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: [email protected]
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Tech Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Tech Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Tech City: PANAMA
Tech State/Province: PANAMA
Tech Postal Code: 00000
Tech Country: PA
Tech Phone: +507.8365503
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +51.17057182
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:

Whoisguard is a service to hide domain registration details from the public. Nothing out of the ordinary here. I do it on my own domain, I don't need my address published out there on the internet.

 

[willf650]

What I have noticed is that the 80,000 and 50,000 BTU Big Maxx are no longer available from Northern Tool. Are we sure this wasn’t a close out.

I bet Northern pulled them to stop the fraud. When I called them they said the person on the invoice was not a reseller and that full price was paid for the heater. You can’t buy something at $420 and sell it for $260 if everything is legit. I was not the only one that talked to Northern about the weird situation with these heater.


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[fitch]

Mr Heater struggles with heating my 24x40x10 Pole Barn. I have the ceiling insulated but not the walls and the heat coming from it is not very much. Prior to buying, I spoke with technical service at Mr Heater and it was suggested I go with the 75K btu and it would heat fine without the walls insulated. Had it professionally installed and the furnace did not perform well so I had another service tech out and he suggested putting a 100 gallon tank down (formally ran it on a 100# tank) and a ceiling fan. Still not working well. In fact, the thermostat barely moves and still need to break out the Carhartts. I do understand insulating the walls would help, but the heat coming from the furnace is very weak. Thoughts?

 

[willf650]

Mr Heater struggles with heating my 24x40x10 Pole Barn. I have the ceiling insulated but not the walls and the heat coming from it is not very much. Prior to buying, I spoke with technical service at Mr Heater and it was suggested I go with the 75K btu and it would heat fine without the walls insulated. Had it professionally installed and the furnace did not perform well so I had another service tech out and he suggested putting a 100 gallon tank down (formally ran it on a 100# tank) and a ceiling fan. Still not working well. In fact, the thermostat barely moves and still need to break out the Carhartts. I do understand insulating the walls would help, but the heat coming from the furnace is very weak. Thoughts?

Just measure the burner manifold pressure to see if it's putting out what its supposed to. If your talking a 100# tank I assume you converted it to propane and changed the spring in the gas valve and burner orfices. I believe your shooting for 11" of water column for most burners with propane. Reading this pressure would quickly take the guessing away if the heater is putting out what its supposed to.

If your just talking that bubble wrap on the ceiling that they put it all pole barns I would consider that insulation. I don't know what your current temp is but I have a 30 X 36 pole barn with a 12' metal ceiling and I have run a 60,000 btu torpedo heater in there and it will bring the temp up only about 20 degrees compared to outside and it takes a couple hours to do it. The onlu way you can tell my pole barn has heat on is if you walk in from outside. You still need a jacket to be in there when its in the 20's outside even with the heat. I was expecting 125,000 btus to be required with no insulation and I have an actual hard ceiling installed, not open trusses.

Read the manifold pressue, assuming you have the right orfices installed and you will quikly find out if the heater you got is simply to small.

 

[biggziff]

Mr Heater struggles with heating my 24x40x10 Pole Barn. I have the ceiling insulated but not the walls and the heat coming from it is not very much. Prior to buying, I spoke with technical service at Mr Heater and it was suggested I go with the 75K btu and it would heat fine without the walls insulated. Had it professionally installed and the furnace did not perform well so I had another service tech out and he suggested putting a 100 gallon tank down (formally ran it on a 100# tank) and a ceiling fan. Still not working well. In fact, the thermostat barely moves and still need to break out the Carhartts. I do understand insulating the walls would help, but the heat coming from the furnace is very weak. Thoughts?

Did someone convert the valve to Propane from NG (as shipped)?

What's the temperature differential on the intake vs output air?

You need a 200 pound tank to run one of these properly in most cases.

 

[SgtHawkUSMC]

Mr Heater struggles with heating my 24x40x10 Pole Barn. I have the ceiling insulated but not the walls and the heat coming from it is not very much. Prior to buying, I spoke with technical service at Mr Heater and it was suggested I go with the 75K btu and it would heat fine without the walls insulated. Had it professionally installed and the furnace did not perform well so I had another service tech out and he suggested putting a 100 gallon tank down (formally ran it on a 100# tank) and a ceiling fan. Still not working well. In fact, the thermostat barely moves and still need to break out the Carhartts. I do understand insulating the walls would help, but the heat coming from the furnace is very weak. Thoughts?

It's interesting that you say that. My buddy bought an 80k Big Maxx before me and had it professionally installed. I was in his shop on Sunday and it was pitiful. He had to run his salamander. Granted, it has a pretty high ceiling that isn't insulated yet and it's a sectioned off part of a huge barn, but the square footage in the sectioned off area is just enough for his lift. Maybe 10' by 26'? I could feel the heat coming out, but it wasn't as hot as I'd think it should be and the fan wasn't blowing very hard. It might just be the height of the ceiling and the open joists letting the heat out on one side, but I would think an 80k blowing at full tilt would overcome that.

 

[biggziff]

It's interesting that you say that. My buddy bought an 80k Big Maxx before me and had it professionally installed. I was in his shop on Sunday and it was pitiful. He had to run his salamander. Granted, it has a pretty high ceiling that isn't insulated yet and it's a sectioned off part of a huge barn, but the square footage in the sectioned off area is just enough for his lift. Maybe 10' by 26'? I could feel the heat coming out, but it wasn't as hot as I'd think it should be and the fan wasn't blowing very hard. It might just be the height of the ceiling and the open joists letting the heat out on one side, but I would think an 80k blowing at full tilt would overcome that.

Open ceilings, uninsulated, etc....not much is going to overcome that.

 

[SgtHawkUSMC]

Open ceilings, uninsulated, etc....not much is going to overcome that.

I've been running my 60k salamander for years in my 30x40 with open trusses and open eves. No insulation whatsoever. It gets plenty warm.

Garage by Dave H, on Flickr

 

[willf650]

In a new and interesting development I just got another notification I have a shipment from Northern Tool coming.

I didn’t order anything from Northern Tool and the weight is 69#. That’s the same shipping weight as the first 50k heater. I haven’t a clue what’s going on. I also haven’t been in contact with the website that is selling these things.

It appears my address has become a drop off point for stolen heater. I guess PayPal didn’t do a thing about it. I’m surprised Northern let it through. They seemed concerned.

The interesting thing this time is the notification I got was from ups saying it will be delivered tomorrow. Last time I got a notification from Northern.


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[MrSurly]

Can't wait to see what you're getting! Christmas all over again!


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[tc-cad]

Menards has these for $355 with 11% rebate for the 50k unit. I think I will just go to the store and buy one tomorrow.

 

[MrSurly]

Menards has these for $355 with 11% rebate for the 50k unit. I think I will just go to the store and buy one tomorrow.

That’s a decent price and no shady business! Good deal.



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[MrSurly]

My Mr. heater saga has taken a complete turn.

First, my new Shop (30/40/14) is fully foamed, essentially airtight, insulated doors, etc. I probably can’t USE 50k BTU, but they were out; I ended up with an 80k! I planned to plug some burners to derate it.
Second: I don’t have gas out to the shop, I made some assumptions about how I could arrange this.
Third: I wanted horizontal venting, more assumptions.
Fourth: I picked up black pipe to pipe inside the shop. I was floored by the prices.
Fifth: I talked with a plumber about running the underground. Yeah you can bet I was shocked.
Sixth: the city weighed in.

So... here’s what I did;
Picked one up today and ordered another.
17,055 BTU each.



I absolutely HATE using electric to heat.... but Mr Heater was going to set me back 2000 bux. That’s a lot of watts.



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[shaggyant]

My Mr. heater saga has taken a complete turn.

First, my new Shop (30/40/14) is fully foamed, essentially airtight, insulated doors, etc. I probably can’t USE 50k BTU, but they were out; I ended up with an 80k! I planned to plug some burners to derate it.
Second: I don’t have gas out to the shop, I made some assumptions about how I could arrange this.
Third: I wanted horizontal venting, more assumptions.
Fourth: I picked up black pipe to pipe inside the shop. I was floored by the prices.
Fifth: I talked with a plumber about running the underground. Yeah you can bet I was shocked.
Sixth: the city weighed in.

So... here’s what I did;
Picked one up today and ordered another.
17,055 BTU each.



I absolutely HATE using electric to heat.... but Mr Heater was going to set me back 2000 bux. That’s a lot of watts.



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In the short term you could install the propane conversion and run it off a 100 gallon tank. It would still be cheaper than electric to operate and you could do the natural gas install later.

 

[MrSurly]

In the short term you could install the propane conversion and run it off a 100 gallon tank. It would still be cheaper than electric to operate and you could do the natural gas install later.

A good thought, but, not an option.
Stationary propane tanks are verboten in the city.
I could run it 30lb kegs but that’s just not worth the trouble.
The truth is, I live in East Texas in a usually temperate climate. I can’t ignore the fact that last week we set our all time record at 10* with wind chill at 0*.... but not counting this current bizarre-ness, it usually doesn’t get really cold here and rarely stays cold for any length of time.
I’m planning to not run the heat at all unless I’m working in it.
As sucky as electric is, and despite NG being just yards away, I really don’t expect to use the heat enough to justify spending two grand to save a couple hundred bucks a season running it.



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[shaggyant]

A good thought, but, not an option.
Stationary propane tanks are verboten in the city.
I could run it 30lb kegs but that’s just not worth the trouble.
The truth is, I live in East Texas in a usually temperate climate. I can’t ignore the fact that last week we set our all time record at 10* with wind chill at 0*.... but not counting this current bizarre-ness, it usually doesn’t get really cold here and rarely stays cold for any length of time.
I’m planning to not run the heat at all unless I’m working in it.
As sucky as electric is, and despite NG being just yards away, I really don’t expect to use the heat enough to justify spending two grand to save a couple hundred bucks a season running it.



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You live in Texas and propane is forbidden? Isn’t Texas pretty much the center of US propane supply? Hank Hill wouldn’t be happy.

 

[Retlaw 66]

Those 5k electric heaters are on sale for $80 from Northern Tool, Pro Fusion brand. Shipping is extra tho, $18 for me.

Shaggy, I was thinking of the Hank Hill response too!