So I got to test it in cooling mode yesterday. I used to have a massive old hampton bay wall insert that was noisy as all hell. I waited until the house got up to around 75 and turned it on cool / low fan. 30 minutes later the house was frigid, I have no issues with the wifi (just turned it on remotely from work so that the house is cool when I get home. App on my phone said the hosue was 77, 15 minutes later it was 71. this thing is a beast - maybe overkill for my little house, but I figure better spend an extra 200 bucks to go large and not be sorry. It is normal for the fan to run non-stop (to clarify my earlier post), you can barely hear it though. That old wall mount would be shaking the house at about 100 decibels, so between the ability to heat, the wireless app for my phone, the price, the super quiet noise level and the ease of installation I would say hurray for well-built Chinese knock-off's of ..Japanese minisplit technology
MRCOOL DIY Mini Split, Seriously, I Think...
- Thread starter Spdstr280Z
- Start date
gtae07
Well-known member
The fan in my 18k unit always runs in heat or cool mode.
justinjoyal
Well-known member
Actually, no.
The key to comfort is a lower RH level achieved through longer run times due to proper sizing.
Last edited:
Well, I sized it based on the square footage of my house, about 900 sq. ft (single level 2br ranch) with info I got from Ingram, so hopefully the RH remains comfortable. I will let you know for certain once the late June rolls around and the dog days arrive, but again based on sq. footage - I was tossing the idea of an 18K unit and the suggestion was to go 24k - I can tell you that when we hit 90 last week, the unit was sucking the humidity out of the place pretty well, steady water flow from the drain outside and place was very comfortable, but it wasn't super-humid either
Last edited:
Fueler
Well-known member
I put mine up about the 8 foot level.
This worked to blow over the top of any of my machines and down on people.
Any higher would have been wasteful I think.
About the same height for the one I installed in my home.
Place it so you have easy access to it with a ladder so you can pull the filters and clean them once a month...or sooner if you do a bunch of sanding or grinding.
If your fan is adjustable speed, finding the happy speed spot can cool it down even better.
Happy with both.
I don't care what they say, go with the 24K. I have a 36k feeding my 40x40.
I've just bought a house in Sliverlake, WA with a 1700 sq. ft. shop and am looking at the Mrcool unit for it. I was kinda on the fence about the Mrcool but from reading this thread (especially the 18 month review) I think I will go ahead and get a 36k unit.
I'm having the pros install a mini split system in the house because I get a $1500 rebate from the power company. Otherwise I'd do the Mrcool for it also.
I'll post up pics about the install. Thanks for all the info, it's really helped me.
I'm having the pros install a mini split system in the house because I get a $1500 rebate from the power company. Otherwise I'd do the Mrcool for it also.
I'll post up pics about the install. Thanks for all the info, it's really helped me.
I started looking at this also and I see a new 36k on Amazon for $2488 my shop is a 30'x40'.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EJWV0P8/?tag=atomicindus08-20
and $2363
https://iwae.com/shop/36k-btu-16-se...t-pump-split-system-wall-mounted-ha11723.html
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EJWV0P8/?tag=atomicindus08-20
and $2363
https://iwae.com/shop/36k-btu-16-se...t-pump-split-system-wall-mounted-ha11723.html
Last edited:
OzarkMan
Well-known member
I have a 32 x 34' garage and my 36k btu mini is perfect. I think you'll be happy with the same size for your 30 x 40 as long as it is insulated to some degree.
justinjoyal
Well-known member
Sizing using sq. footage is the hack way of doing it.
See, for a new 900 sq ft house here, I’ll put in a 9kbtu unit...
Same sq footage, different conditions. Accurate sizing requires more data.
I checked out a sizing app for mini splits and used my shop for the data, some details are as close as the program would allow.
file:///C:/Users/sairc/Downloads/BTU%20for%20Other%20Room.pdf#page=1
file:///C:/Users/sairc/Downloads/BTU%20for%20Other%20Room.pdf#page=1
Last edited:
-------------
May be a "hack" way of doing it, calamity Jane but I would venture to guess that this is the way most "Mr. Cool - DIY" buyers figure out roughly what they need.
This web site has me undersized:
https://www.ecomfort.com/stories/1439-What-Size-Mini-Split-Should-You-Buy.html
by the by - this thing is the nutz so far, no regrets (so far).
bottom feeder
Well-known member
Where is "here"? You don't have your location shown.
I have a 24k unit for my shop...its about 2000sqft. Thanks for the recommendation of the unit. $1600 and I can DIY. I was able to fit this thing in the budget now and not wait a few more months.
Hoping 24k is enough. Im in Texas but my shop is completely spray foamed and tight with Zip wall sheathing, a very nice sill gasket, etc.
Hoping 24k is enough. Im in Texas but my shop is completely spray foamed and tight with Zip wall sheathing, a very nice sill gasket, etc.
justinjoyal
Well-known member
First post here...
Just installed a 24K DIY unit in the main room of the house on Sunday. The thing is nothing short of fantastic! And I did it all myself - no AC guy to charge up the...well, you know.
I had a 45yo Sears 3.5ton central system that quit about 5 years ago. I got quotes to replace it back then - six to eight thousand. Now they wanted eight to fourteen thousand. Highest quote was from the Home Depot vendor with Rheem equipment and new ducting - $17K. Uh...no.
This forum, and this thread was encouragement to do it myself. I mean gee, if I can build a boat or a house, or a car, surely I can install a air conditioner.
What nobody mentioned was the MrCool DIY lineset is super flexible. A lot of DIY'ers complained about bending the lineset and how worried they were about kinking it - some even advocated buying a tubing bender, which really, how would that work with 2 lines? I guess they're working with seperate sucdtion and liquid lines. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised.
I have a crawl space above my kitchen to route electric feed and the line set, and access to the outside wall between the studs. I got lucky running romex - they had drilled a hole in the fireblock next to where the gas line drops through - but that wasn't going to work with the lineset. So I drilled through above the fireblock so I only have 4' of line showing. All in all it went very smooth.
The most difficult thing was getting the inside unit rigid part of the lineset through the hole while wrestling the unit up on the wall bracket. And I'm about 10' up because we have 15' cielings. Just one of the many tasks that severely stressed out my back. Oh well, saved me about three grand - I can heal up. LOL Yes, local contractors were quoting me $4500 to $4700 for a 24K BTU unit, Daikin or Mitsubishi. Actually, the Mitsu was even more IIRC. I don't mind them making a profit, but really, $3K I think is excessive.
My daughter is a commercial electrician so she was a big help in planning the circuit. We re-used the old 40amp for the old unit with a new 25amp service breaker and then route out to a new fuseless disconnect for the new unit in a waterproof box and whip.
I couldn't be happier! We'll likely put one in the master bedroom as well. Wife is beyond thrilled.
Thanks for all the encouragement - GarageJournal!
Just installed a 24K DIY unit in the main room of the house on Sunday. The thing is nothing short of fantastic! And I did it all myself - no AC guy to charge up the...well, you know.
I had a 45yo Sears 3.5ton central system that quit about 5 years ago. I got quotes to replace it back then - six to eight thousand. Now they wanted eight to fourteen thousand. Highest quote was from the Home Depot vendor with Rheem equipment and new ducting - $17K. Uh...no.
This forum, and this thread was encouragement to do it myself. I mean gee, if I can build a boat or a house, or a car, surely I can install a air conditioner.
What nobody mentioned was the MrCool DIY lineset is super flexible. A lot of DIY'ers complained about bending the lineset and how worried they were about kinking it - some even advocated buying a tubing bender, which really, how would that work with 2 lines? I guess they're working with seperate sucdtion and liquid lines. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised.
I have a crawl space above my kitchen to route electric feed and the line set, and access to the outside wall between the studs. I got lucky running romex - they had drilled a hole in the fireblock next to where the gas line drops through - but that wasn't going to work with the lineset. So I drilled through above the fireblock so I only have 4' of line showing. All in all it went very smooth.
The most difficult thing was getting the inside unit rigid part of the lineset through the hole while wrestling the unit up on the wall bracket. And I'm about 10' up because we have 15' cielings. Just one of the many tasks that severely stressed out my back. Oh well, saved me about three grand - I can heal up. LOL Yes, local contractors were quoting me $4500 to $4700 for a 24K BTU unit, Daikin or Mitsubishi. Actually, the Mitsu was even more IIRC. I don't mind them making a profit, but really, $3K I think is excessive.
My daughter is a commercial electrician so she was a big help in planning the circuit. We re-used the old 40amp for the old unit with a new 25amp service breaker and then route out to a new fuseless disconnect for the new unit in a waterproof box and whip.
I couldn't be happier! We'll likely put one in the master bedroom as well. Wife is beyond thrilled.
Thanks for all the encouragement - GarageJournal!
larry4406
Well-known member
Browneye - welcome aboard! Nice looking install. This place really has good info.
On Fredrich Breeze launch: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...ews/friedrich-pulls-back-diy-minisplit-launch
Not sure why they backed out of it, but my guess is it's the same product as MrCool and the factory just wouldn't grant exclusivity or something of the sort, or the Mrcool importer was gearing up to compete, or who knows what. My opinion is that it was political, or there were just so many failures without any back up that it wasn't worth tarnishing their good name. Like, MRCOOL is now selling several thousand units per year, one could only guess why Fredrich would pass on that. They only sell through their HVAC dealer network.
I've been doing a bunch of research on the distribution of these China-made units. A couple of interesting facts is that the product image and support manuals for MrCool, Pioneer, and Klimaire, are all identical. I don't' think this is a coincidence, and I don't believe separate manufacturing companies in China are employing the same translator and printer for their documentation materials. No, my hunch is that they are all made in the same factory, by a company that will put any label on them you want if you buy enough of them.
If you search on Alibaba you can find plenty of China AC units starting at about $160. Some of them have a minimum order of 1 and some are 100. It would seem that deep-pocket investors and entrepreneurs are shipping in containers of these products as 'their brand' and the setting up sales and distribution centers, primarily for online sales, although I have now experienced a few installers/retailers selling Midea which is another very popular brand from the same region in China. AUX is another, seems to be a huge manufacturer also in the same region in China.
Heat And Cool is the online seller for Klimaire, Ingrams for MrCool, and I spoke to the importer for Mrcool in FL - he brought in 4000 units last year and ran out. I mentioned Home Depot and he said 'yes, they are one of our clients'. So they are simply trying to create distribution around the country in any way that they can. Pioneer is another one from Florida, you can find them selling at pioneerminisplit.com, HighSeer.com, and one other online site, plus Amazon, Sylvane, and a few other smaller outlets.
I do not believe any of these sales/promotion companies have any kind of tech support, nor parts, nor any way to warranty product. They all use the excuse that if you install it yourself there is no warranty. Well gee, even the DIY units have this disclosure in the warranty declaration. MrCool is the only one I know of that will honor their warranty if you can indeed show that their product has failed. But you have to hire a HVAC professional to troubleshoot and document the failure before you can get them to honor a warranty. So you're out hundreds of dollars and then waiting for parts, if they have them, which I doubt. IMO these units are like throw-aways - if they fail you simply replace them like a window air unit. My bet is Ingrams is robbing unit sets for parts, or just replacing the inside or outside unit as a component - no parts.
Klimaire now has a new DIY series with the pre-charged line sets - and funny how both units look identical to the MrCool units, and all of their documentation, installation and user manuals, are also identical.
When I asked Heatandcool.com about their warranty declaration verses their DIY product, they went on this roundabout explanation of why they would not warrant failures without a professional installation. It's just a CYA, they have no intention of warrantying anything, nor do they have any parts. Lots of bad reviews on Amazon for the Klimaire products - people are PISSED!!
Buyer beware on this stuff. It's still a third the cost of hiring a Mitsubishi Diamond HVAC pro, so you could conceivably replace your system 3 times and still be even.
I'm thinking about buying another unit but not sure which way to go, but certainly not willing to spend three times what I did to get what I already got. Not only that, but even the 'Japan' products like LG, Fredrich, Mitsubishi, and Daikin, are admittedly getting their product final assembly in China. So my hunch is you're not getting anything different as far as hardware no matter what brand you select. It's kind of like buying a Korean made car - they're all about the same, and certainly no Honda or Toyota.
Even more interesting is how these importers will setup sales and distrubution centers with varying brand names and domain names - if you search them on 'whois' for domains you can find it's the same entity, or relatives, or stemming back to the one same guy that's bankrolling them. For example, there's a tradename registration for MRCOOL that was started a few years ago and guess who the applicant was? Jason of Ingram Water and Air. I asked them if they were the importer and they denied it, and then I found the domain registration for MRCOOL and called that and talked to a 'Bob' there and he said he was the importer. Explained that he tried to setup distribution through the HVAC industry and all he got was roadblocks, so he setup his own distribution. Ingram is one of their primary distributors. My guess is they are somehow related. Maybe it's grandpa money-bags retired in Florida while the kids run the sales center in Kentucky.
I wish I could find a more public place to discuss this, so sorry if this is TLDR or TMI.
Not sure why they backed out of it, but my guess is it's the same product as MrCool and the factory just wouldn't grant exclusivity or something of the sort, or the Mrcool importer was gearing up to compete, or who knows what. My opinion is that it was political, or there were just so many failures without any back up that it wasn't worth tarnishing their good name. Like, MRCOOL is now selling several thousand units per year, one could only guess why Fredrich would pass on that. They only sell through their HVAC dealer network.
I've been doing a bunch of research on the distribution of these China-made units. A couple of interesting facts is that the product image and support manuals for MrCool, Pioneer, and Klimaire, are all identical. I don't' think this is a coincidence, and I don't believe separate manufacturing companies in China are employing the same translator and printer for their documentation materials. No, my hunch is that they are all made in the same factory, by a company that will put any label on them you want if you buy enough of them.
If you search on Alibaba you can find plenty of China AC units starting at about $160. Some of them have a minimum order of 1 and some are 100. It would seem that deep-pocket investors and entrepreneurs are shipping in containers of these products as 'their brand' and the setting up sales and distribution centers, primarily for online sales, although I have now experienced a few installers/retailers selling Midea which is another very popular brand from the same region in China. AUX is another, seems to be a huge manufacturer also in the same region in China.
Heat And Cool is the online seller for Klimaire, Ingrams for MrCool, and I spoke to the importer for Mrcool in FL - he brought in 4000 units last year and ran out. I mentioned Home Depot and he said 'yes, they are one of our clients'. So they are simply trying to create distribution around the country in any way that they can. Pioneer is another one from Florida, you can find them selling at pioneerminisplit.com, HighSeer.com, and one other online site, plus Amazon, Sylvane, and a few other smaller outlets.
I do not believe any of these sales/promotion companies have any kind of tech support, nor parts, nor any way to warranty product. They all use the excuse that if you install it yourself there is no warranty. Well gee, even the DIY units have this disclosure in the warranty declaration. MrCool is the only one I know of that will honor their warranty if you can indeed show that their product has failed. But you have to hire a HVAC professional to troubleshoot and document the failure before you can get them to honor a warranty. So you're out hundreds of dollars and then waiting for parts, if they have them, which I doubt. IMO these units are like throw-aways - if they fail you simply replace them like a window air unit. My bet is Ingrams is robbing unit sets for parts, or just replacing the inside or outside unit as a component - no parts.
Klimaire now has a new DIY series with the pre-charged line sets - and funny how both units look identical to the MrCool units, and all of their documentation, installation and user manuals, are also identical.
When I asked Heatandcool.com about their warranty declaration verses their DIY product, they went on this roundabout explanation of why they would not warrant failures without a professional installation. It's just a CYA, they have no intention of warrantying anything, nor do they have any parts. Lots of bad reviews on Amazon for the Klimaire products - people are PISSED!!
Buyer beware on this stuff. It's still a third the cost of hiring a Mitsubishi Diamond HVAC pro, so you could conceivably replace your system 3 times and still be even.
I'm thinking about buying another unit but not sure which way to go, but certainly not willing to spend three times what I did to get what I already got. Not only that, but even the 'Japan' products like LG, Fredrich, Mitsubishi, and Daikin, are admittedly getting their product final assembly in China. So my hunch is you're not getting anything different as far as hardware no matter what brand you select. It's kind of like buying a Korean made car - they're all about the same, and certainly no Honda or Toyota.
Even more interesting is how these importers will setup sales and distrubution centers with varying brand names and domain names - if you search them on 'whois' for domains you can find it's the same entity, or relatives, or stemming back to the one same guy that's bankrolling them. For example, there's a tradename registration for MRCOOL that was started a few years ago and guess who the applicant was? Jason of Ingram Water and Air. I asked them if they were the importer and they denied it, and then I found the domain registration for MRCOOL and called that and talked to a 'Bob' there and he said he was the importer. Explained that he tried to setup distribution through the HVAC industry and all he got was roadblocks, so he setup his own distribution. Ingram is one of their primary distributors. My guess is they are somehow related. Maybe it's grandpa money-bags retired in Florida while the kids run the sales center in Kentucky.
I wish I could find a more public place to discuss this, so sorry if this is TLDR or TMI.
Last edited:
I might be interested...send me a PM or post a price and location.
Thanks!
EDIT: Nevermind...found your ad. Can get a brand new unit for about a third less.
Last edited:
Heat and cool gave me a discount code for $250 off. Plus they start out less. My guess is they are getting too many negative reviews and people won't pull the trigger when that happens, so they have to discount to move them - they don't want to get stuck with unsalable merchandise. And also why they seem to sell under a variety of tradenames so if one takes a **** they can keep going with the others.
Ingrams was very responsive when I was looking to buy, but now inquiries go unanswered. My bet is it would be like pulling teeth to get anything warranteed.
I really hope this unit keeps running. It would be a PITA to have to R&R it very many times.
I got my 2-ton unit for $1563 shipped. They are $1700 and change at Home Depot, plus tax - that's 8% here, or another hundred bucks.
I went to get a line set cover and saw the youtube vid for the $15 cover the guy made out of pvc rain gutter. Went over to Lowes, got one and some downspout straps, a cap and a 'L' for the bottom to turn and run over to the unit - hooked it all up last night and it looks and works great. Not quite as fancy as a $80 line set cover, but it wasn't $80 either.
I also setup the condensate drain to fill a watering can for the patio. How convenient. If it overflows the can it runs down the end of the slab and into a drain. I'm shocked at how much water it makes! In so-cal free water is grand!!
Ingrams was very responsive when I was looking to buy, but now inquiries go unanswered. My bet is it would be like pulling teeth to get anything warranteed.
I really hope this unit keeps running. It would be a PITA to have to R&R it very many times.
I got my 2-ton unit for $1563 shipped. They are $1700 and change at Home Depot, plus tax - that's 8% here, or another hundred bucks.
I went to get a line set cover and saw the youtube vid for the $15 cover the guy made out of pvc rain gutter. Went over to Lowes, got one and some downspout straps, a cap and a 'L' for the bottom to turn and run over to the unit - hooked it all up last night and it looks and works great. Not quite as fancy as a $80 line set cover, but it wasn't $80 either.
I also setup the condensate drain to fill a watering can for the patio. How convenient. If it overflows the can it runs down the end of the slab and into a drain. I'm shocked at how much water it makes! In so-cal free water is grand!!
Thanks Larry. Yes, good how-to. I have to laugh at the other hvac forum - “no help for DIY’rs.” What, like we’re some kind of disease? Or idiots? Or what? Lol
I know - its to protect their trade. Ill bet that’s why Friedrich pulled their diy model - too much pressure from the pros. They’re very protective of their vast experience.
On sizing - the calcs only take so much into consideration and I found them to slant to average climate instead of the extremes for when you really need it.
For example, it can get over 100* here, we have no wall insulation with stucco, and windows and doors that are usually open, are leaky, and 15’ cielings. One calc said 11k btu was enough, another 20k btu. Drop a 2-ton and run it at low speed most of the time. It is super quiet, but then I’m half deaf. Lol
We will have the cooling capacity for when we really need it. And still have the old gas furnace that works just fine - also very quiet. Its over 40 years old!
So, after reading all of the responses, I've decided to go for it. I am just not quite sure of the sizing due to my specs.
I have a galvanized metal building, 30'x60'x12', and have closed cell spray foam insulation on all walls and the ceiling. Both garage doors are fully insulated (R-19), as are all 3 walkthrough doors and all windows are double hung, insulated. I built it with the knowledge that it gets hotter than hell (along with the humidity) in the NE Florida area.
Eventually, the last 12-14 feet of the shop will be walled off for a man-cave/guest suite that will be insulated from the remainder of the shop, so that I can have a separate mini-split controlling that area.
Cost and reviews here have me deciding on the MrCool system. I won't be converting the other area for at least a year, due to work schedule, and other items.
My current sq footage being 1800, would the 24K DIY unit be adequate to maintain the temp? I could go 36K, but feel that would be way too much overkill once the mancave part is isolated. I'll be doing a 12K unit on that side once it's complete.
Yes, I know I can get a mulit-zone unit, but none are DIY, and I honestly can't see paying the pros the $6500 they're quoting for the Daikin or Mitsubishi (yes, I know they're the top of the line, but it's not in the budget right now).
What's the biggest sq footage anyone has used a 24K system on?
If the 24K can maintain this summer, I'm good with that, but will go for the 36K if need be.
Thanks for any and all responses.
I have a galvanized metal building, 30'x60'x12', and have closed cell spray foam insulation on all walls and the ceiling. Both garage doors are fully insulated (R-19), as are all 3 walkthrough doors and all windows are double hung, insulated. I built it with the knowledge that it gets hotter than hell (along with the humidity) in the NE Florida area.
Eventually, the last 12-14 feet of the shop will be walled off for a man-cave/guest suite that will be insulated from the remainder of the shop, so that I can have a separate mini-split controlling that area.
Cost and reviews here have me deciding on the MrCool system. I won't be converting the other area for at least a year, due to work schedule, and other items.
My current sq footage being 1800, would the 24K DIY unit be adequate to maintain the temp? I could go 36K, but feel that would be way too much overkill once the mancave part is isolated. I'll be doing a 12K unit on that side once it's complete.
Yes, I know I can get a mulit-zone unit, but none are DIY, and I honestly can't see paying the pros the $6500 they're quoting for the Daikin or Mitsubishi (yes, I know they're the top of the line, but it's not in the budget right now).
What's the biggest sq footage anyone has used a 24K system on?
If the 24K can maintain this summer, I'm good with that, but will go for the 36K if need be.
Thanks for any and all responses.
Pretty impressive building.
If it were me and you want to maintain a 75* ambient around the shop, a 3-ton. A 2 might do it, but it may also just run and run and not keep up. If you're going to super cool your cave/suite area and leave the rest at 78-80 then the 2-ton is probly fine. That's quite a lot of footage and volume to cover with the 12' ceilings.
I'm not convinced that the premium brands are any better. I had several 'pros' in the biz tell me they're all made in the same factories in China, so you get more guarantees, more warranty, more quality control in the install, and more peace of mind with the higher priced equipment from an HVAC pro. Plus they charge enough to provide a labor warranty for at least a year should it need warranty repairs. I figure I've saved enough that I could simply purchase a failed indoor or outdoor unit in it's entirety. Several times if I had to.
Just my un-professional opinion.
If it were me and you want to maintain a 75* ambient around the shop, a 3-ton. A 2 might do it, but it may also just run and run and not keep up. If you're going to super cool your cave/suite area and leave the rest at 78-80 then the 2-ton is probly fine. That's quite a lot of footage and volume to cover with the 12' ceilings.
I'm not convinced that the premium brands are any better. I had several 'pros' in the biz tell me they're all made in the same factories in China, so you get more guarantees, more warranty, more quality control in the install, and more peace of mind with the higher priced equipment from an HVAC pro. Plus they charge enough to provide a labor warranty for at least a year should it need warranty repairs. I figure I've saved enough that I could simply purchase a failed indoor or outdoor unit in it's entirety. Several times if I had to.
Just my un-professional opinion.
Pretty impressive building.
If it were me and you want to maintain a 75* ambient around the shop, a 3-ton. A 2 might do it, but it may also just run and run and not keep up. If you're going to super cool your cave/suite area and leave the rest at 78-80 then the 2-ton is probly fine. That's quite a lot of footage and volume to cover with the 12' ceilings.
Just my un-professional opinion.
You're reading my mind, I do believe. I feel I knew the answer, but was trying to get by a little cheaper, which seems to never turn out well.
Thanks for the compliment about the shop. It's been a dream of mine for about 20 years. I made a deal with the devil to get it, as I had to move my Mom in with us to be able to afford it, Lol. Now we have both mothers living with us, but I have my shop to escape to. I'll do a build thread on it eventually.
I did a 24x48 and a 30x48 when we lived in the PNW. The high ceiling lets you install at least one 8' rollup to accommodate a bigger rig, like a tall truck or boat.
Up there we never bothered with AC - a woodfired stove was the ticket.
When my oldest was born I built a 16' wooden rowing and sailing skiff in the new shop - an 1800's style out of solid wood - cedar, mahogany, spruce, oak. Was really fun and very satisfying. Gee, she just turned 31 - the daughter.
BOTH mothers?!?
Up there we never bothered with AC - a woodfired stove was the ticket.
When my oldest was born I built a 16' wooden rowing and sailing skiff in the new shop - an 1800's style out of solid wood - cedar, mahogany, spruce, oak. Was really fun and very satisfying. Gee, she just turned 31 - the daughter.
BOTH mothers?!?
Abgiles: I have done 1ton per 1k sf in a foamed home -- but I'm in the mid-atlantic. Although, it had no issues in 100 degree weather. But, that's maintaining a temp ... not walking into a hot building on a 100 degree day and expecting it to drop in an hour.
The foam really cuts down on the outside temp differential -- but the inside and any humidity has to be taken car regardless. Only you know how you are going to use the building.
Equipment efficiency is all question of looking at the numbers seeing what makes sense and remembering that you have to be around 80% of capacity to see those numbers. Running something 24/7 in 100 degree weather will benefit more from efficiencies vs an occasional building use.
I can assure you they are not made in one factory -- and there are differences. It's a question of what's the use and what's the need.
The foam really cuts down on the outside temp differential -- but the inside and any humidity has to be taken car regardless. Only you know how you are going to use the building.
Equipment efficiency is all question of looking at the numbers seeing what makes sense and remembering that you have to be around 80% of capacity to see those numbers. Running something 24/7 in 100 degree weather will benefit more from efficiencies vs an occasional building use.
I can assure you they are not made in one factory -- and there are differences. It's a question of what's the use and what's the need.
Some more information to be considered before attempting to answer your size question.
What is your peak outside temp in your area for the season?
What temp do you intend to maintain inside? Will you keep this temp consistently or raise it when not in use?
Do you intend to use fans to assist in circulating the air?
How thick is the closed cell foam in the walls and ceiling?
Have you completed a manual J calculation on the building?
Many variables here that will play a role in answering your question. Just considering that your 12' ceiling increased your volume by 50% is significant in itself.
If you're certain that you'll be sectioning off part of the building later, you can inexpensively section it off now with just some light framing and plastic roll to see significant gains for little expense.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Regarding MrCool over the others...
I do know that Ingrams either has parts or at least they have inside and outside units they'll sell separately. I take some comfort in that so even if you can't get them to warranty a unit at least you can get a replacement component without buying the whole thing again. They have very high customer satisfaction reviews. That was likely the thing that carried a lot of weight on my decision to go with them over the others.
I found two local AC pro's that I could call on to do a vac, test, and turn up. In the end I thought it was worth a couple of hundred extra for the DIY unit so I DIDN'T have to call them, and for the extended warranty - 7 year compressor and 5 year parts. The other retailers don't proved that kind of coverage, and they want to fuss about who installs it. I get that, but if the unit is functioning well when you install it, and it fails down the road due to a component failure - that doesn't have anything to do with the install - that's a warranted parts failure that should be covered. Like I say, I've saved enough that even if I had to BUY a replacement part or component I've still come out way ahead.
At least I have some options if I need help troubleshooting down the road.
It also seems the flared line set couplings are what give the most grief. If they leak you have problems that are not easily addressed without starting all over - freon evac, repair, then vac, test, and recharge. Special equipment and special skills there, yes. Installing a unit? Not so much, especially with the pre-charged quick-connect line set.
I do know that Ingrams either has parts or at least they have inside and outside units they'll sell separately. I take some comfort in that so even if you can't get them to warranty a unit at least you can get a replacement component without buying the whole thing again. They have very high customer satisfaction reviews. That was likely the thing that carried a lot of weight on my decision to go with them over the others.
I found two local AC pro's that I could call on to do a vac, test, and turn up. In the end I thought it was worth a couple of hundred extra for the DIY unit so I DIDN'T have to call them, and for the extended warranty - 7 year compressor and 5 year parts. The other retailers don't proved that kind of coverage, and they want to fuss about who installs it. I get that, but if the unit is functioning well when you install it, and it fails down the road due to a component failure - that doesn't have anything to do with the install - that's a warranted parts failure that should be covered. Like I say, I've saved enough that even if I had to BUY a replacement part or component I've still come out way ahead.
At least I have some options if I need help troubleshooting down the road.
It also seems the flared line set couplings are what give the most grief. If they leak you have problems that are not easily addressed without starting all over - freon evac, repair, then vac, test, and recharge. Special equipment and special skills there, yes. Installing a unit? Not so much, especially with the pre-charged quick-connect line set.
There are several factories cranking these things out in the same Shanghai region of China. Even the "Japanese" ones now seem to be assembled in China. Please tell us if there is more to this.
What exactly ARE the differences? And what does that have to do with 'use and need'? Not being rhetorical, if you have facts I'm sure we would all like to learn.
NE Florida, so we see high 90's all the time in the summer, with 95+ % humidity
I work nuclear plant outages in the spring and fall (when the weather is mild, of course), which keeps me home summer and winter. When I'm home, I'm usually not working, so I'll be out there quite a bit. I'd like to keep it 76-78 when I'm working, and won't vary it much when I'm not in it, unless I'm gone for an outage, and will keep it about 82 (using the system for humidity control mainly).
Yes, I have 3 industrial 56" fans already installed.
2" on the walls and 3" on the ceilings.
I had one a/c guy perform one and said that 2.5 tons would most likely work, but recommended 3 tons. I wasn't too impressed by him though.
I'm fairly confident I've talked myself into the 36K unit, just to be sure I have enough. If it works great, and is efficient enough to keep it cooler without breaking the bank on electric, I may keep it a bit lower. I just don't want to have one struggle to maintain, as you mentioned.
Fixin'Stuff
Well-known member
The sweet thing about inverter systems is that going slightly too big isn't a problem. Standard a/c systems just shut off when the temp set point is reached. If they're oversized then they don't run long enough to dehumidify the air properly. You end up with a cool, clammy space. Mini-splits can crank up to their full rating when needed, then will throttle back and slow down the compressor and the fan once the set point is reached. Think of it as a variable BTU heat pump.
There are several factories cranking these things out in the same Shanghai region of China. Even the "Japanese" ones now seem to be assembled in China. Please tell us if there is more to this.
What exactly ARE the differences? And what does that have to do with 'use and need'? Not being rhetorical, if you have facts I'm sure we would all like to learn.
Gree is the big one .. it's a quasi government corporation as are most. Sold under many brands. What they put into each - will be a mystery. The possibilities are endless .. the supply chain unknowable.
Mitsubishi's big assembly plant is in Thailand. Toshiba and Daikin are the big compressor makers -- they produce in multiple countries. Japan is no longer a low cost supplier ... Japanese have been forced to move some production. China copies everything.
My LG was made in Japan -- but, that was years ago now. I can't remember where the Fujitsu ...
It's all a moving target -- that's why having people comment on the latest from given manufacturer is valuable. One expects first class operation from the big leading players. The question is --- how do the value players stack up for a given price.
As a user, the Mitsubishi are the nicest -- you don't know they are operating .. and they are very accurate temp wise. They have multi vane outlets -- an eye. But, they cost more. I have yet to run into anyone who thinks there is a better one .. But, I have a meeting tomorrow to look at a new Daikin system. This is for part of my new house's HVAC needs.
The mystery is why are the DIY units not rated as efficient? The last I inquired the Mr. Cool units were being modified in the USA ... they originally sold them to the green house market (non inverter) .. so they have been around for a while. Are they older designs? .. people not willing to deal with them if they sell the top models?
My guess is Friedrich had a lot of blow back from the dealers -- the HVAC industry is going through massive change. There is no reason why these things CAN'T be made with quick connects. When I first started seeing them in Japan they had flexible hose like in an automobile -- if a hose can last 20 years in a car -- why not in a home? But, it would wipe out a huge part of the industry.
Obviously, in garage setting the control issue becomes less important. If you currently have a window unit or PT unit -- anything is a huge improvement.
Last edited:
Here are the numbers for the 24 vs 36, specs from pioneer but should be close. It's quite a big difference in the numbers.
You can see the 36K is going cost quite a bit more watts to run (all the time) and does not go as low BTU. The minimum is 15000 BTU on a 36k BTU. The 24K goes down to 7000BTU, while you are on paper, getting a 50% bigger equipment on the low end the 36K is 100% more powerful cooling, until it shuts off, the mini split fan run all the time, you want to maximize compressor runtime at a low speed, because when it is cold enough the compressor turns off it starts to blow moisture collected on the evap coil back to the room.
I suspect if you install the 36K unit you will come back and tell us it works great it cools down your building 20 degrees in 15 minutes, in the long run it is not ideal.
You can have a smaller unit and it may struggle within keeping couple degrees on the hottest days, it will still be comfortable, when you oversize system you get a cold clammy room that is a harder problem to fix.
Attachments
Well, I'm not too worried about having too much, as I'm sure I'll be running it in dry mode when it gets cool enough. I did order the 36K unit.
I'm retired military, and Lowe's gives a 10% off discount, but even with that, Ingram's beat them by over $100 for the unit. I'm wall mounting the compressor with some rubber snubbers to hopefully prevent the vibration issue, and will report back once I get it all done.
Quick question: How easily do the lines bend around corners? I've seen some that go around corners, but don't want to kink the lines obviously.
I'm retired military, and Lowe's gives a 10% off discount, but even with that, Ingram's beat them by over $100 for the unit. I'm wall mounting the compressor with some rubber snubbers to hopefully prevent the vibration issue, and will report back once I get it all done.
Quick question: How easily do the lines bend around corners? I've seen some that go around corners, but don't want to kink the lines obviously.
The new line set is super flexible. About like a 50a powercord. I was pleasantly surprised.
What I had trouble with was getting the first two feet connected to the indoor unit - the rigid part of the lineset - and actually it's the last two feet before you hang it on the wall bracket - getting the unit positioned so it would feed through the hole in the wall while up on a 10' ladder. Some help here makes a big difference. You have to be able to lift it up and away from the wall so that part will feed through, and of course the condensate drain is separate at that point so it wants to hang up on the sleeve as well. It was a trick, but do-able. Fortunately the unit isn't too heavy, about 30lbs or so, but still heavy overhead for an old-timer.
I had mentioned making my line set cover from downspout ala the youtube vid - pics here. Sure it's not fancy, but gee, materials were well under $20. I was going to order a MRCOOL line set cover kit but cringed at the $80 for a plastic tube.
Seems like I should paint it house-color. [shrug]I'm at this level on the wall with the line set as that is where the fire-stop/block in the stud wall is - the rest of the line is between the studs leading up to the kitchen crawl space/attic. I had about 5' of extra line set so it makes one loop up there and then over to the indoor unit.
The cool thing is a pvc drain tube with a spigot type of end set so it fills a watering can. If we neglect it and it fills up it simply overflows and down to the deck drain. Free water!
The new line set is super flexible. About like a 50a powercord. I was pleasantly surprised.
What I had trouble with was getting the first two feet connected to the indoor unit - the rigid part of the lineset - and actually it's the last two feet before you hang it on the wall bracket - getting the unit positioned so it would feed through the hole in the wall while up on a 10' ladder. Some help here makes a big difference. You have to be able to lift it up and away from the wall so that part will feed through, and of course the condensate drain is separate at that point so it wants to hang up on the sleeve as well. It was a trick, but do-able. Fortunately the unit isn't too heavy, about 30lbs or so, but still heavy overhead for an old-timer.
I had mentioned making my line set cover from downspout ala the youtube vid - pics here. Sure it's not fancy, but gee, materials were well under $20. I was going to order a MRCOOL line set cover kit but cringed at the $80 for a plastic tube.
I'm at this level on the wall with the line set as that is where the fire-stop/block in the stud wall is - the rest of the line is between the studs leading up to the kitchen crawl space/attic. I had about 5' of extra line set so it makes one loop up there and then over to the indoor unit.
The cool thing is a pvc drain tube with a spigot type of end set so it fills a watering can. If we neglect it and it fills up it simply overflows and down to the deck drain. Free water!
Thanks! I'll have most of mine outside, and will definitely take a look at the video.
For new DIY installs - I did a little research on hole saws for stucco - we have the old concrete style with chicken wire that is about an inch thick. I knew my regular carbon steel toothed one for wood would not cut it. So carbide or diamond blades are recommended for concrete and stucco.
HF sells a carbide set for $28, and as much as I hate to buy their cheap tools, for one job I thought why not. A Dewalt matching one is closer to $100.
It cut the 1" hole for the power lead, and the 3.5" one for the line set, like butter in the stucco wall, the double 2-by4 header, and a nice clean hole in the plaster wall.
Highly recommended and a cheap option.
HF sells a carbide set for $28, and as much as I hate to buy their cheap tools, for one job I thought why not. A Dewalt matching one is closer to $100.
It cut the 1" hole for the power lead, and the 3.5" one for the line set, like butter in the stucco wall, the double 2-by4 header, and a nice clean hole in the plaster wall.
Highly recommended and a cheap option.