MRCOOL DIY Mini Split, Seriously, I Think...

[Jack_Toepfer]

Sounds like I can run the drain separate from the copper lines, right? Sorry, wasn't even referring to the water, just the refrigerant.

So the unit can drain wherever it is convenient (using gravity) but the copper can go up up and away if that is how I needed it to go. I guess I wanted to make sure the oil was circulating properly... If you're looping them vertically and it is making an oil trap, is it because there is an up-hill or just because of the nature of the loop?

 

[justinjoyal]

Units have specific specs for lineset elevations, lenghts, etc.

 

[BajaScout]

We had a window unit in our end of the house where we put our 1-ton MrCool. It was a 6400btu unit and kept things pretty cool, but yeah, it ran 24/7 when it was hot out, and could not keep up on really hot days. In so-cal it's less of an issue because it almost always cools off at night so you can sleep.

For a shop a split is great because if you leave it on it pretty much goes to sleep once temp is reached - the air handler still turns very slowly, but the outside compressor unit shuts down.

I would not choose this option primarily for heat. They work fine, but my take, my opinion, is their greatest asset is cooling.

One other thing to note is they make a LOT of condensate water. So yeah, you do need to drain it for sure, but also consider where all that water will go. How many times have you seen a commercial building with a roof drain and water running across the parking lot? You don't want that at your house - so into a drain, catch basin, garden, or some place that disposes of the water. Our 2-ton unit puts out almost four gallons a day when it's humid. That is a LOT of water! We catch it in a watering can for the patio shrubs and garden.

The other nice function is the wireless feature and your smartphone. So for a shop, you can modulate your functions with your phone - you don't even have to be onsite.

Thinking about doing the same for my house in San Diego.

I do not need to use the heater or AC much since I live only 2 miles from the coast. Since I over generate on Solar, I can almost do away with my gas bill by switching to a mini split. Plus I can heat/cool only the areas I want in my house vice the whole house. I would do three zones. Front, rear and upstairs. The condensate is a plus, as you probably know. Will lower my water bill.

Did you do this yourself or hire a contractor?

 

[Browneye]

Thinking about doing the same for my house in San Diego.

I do not need to use the heater or AC much since I live only 2 miles from the coast. Since I over generate on Solar, I can almost do away with my gas bill by switching to a mini split. Plus I can heat/cool only the areas I want in my house vice the whole house. I would do three zones. Front, rear and upstairs. The condensate is a plus, as you probably know. Will lower my water bill.

Did you do this yourself or hire a contractor?

Installed two of them myself - project post and pics up thread here.
The 2-ton was more difficult simply from the perspective that my interior wall location was about ten feet up, and that head unit with lineset is probly 60lbs. So up on a ladder with this old back was a bit of a challenge.

Otherwise they were straightforward and work perfectly. Very very happy with them. We used them all summer for AC and all winter for heat. We are just north of disneyland so temp swings aren't too drastic. Except when they are. In the past year we've had a low of near freezing and a high of near 110.

 

[BajaScout]

Thanks. I may do that myself. I am guessing I would still need to get a permit.


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[Browneye]

Thanks. I may do that myself. I am guessing I would still need to get a permit.
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Likely, and certainly for electrical work. But municipalities today require a permit for a food disposer, or a water heater too - it helps prevent DIY's from doing it wrong. I did not get any permits - but I'm confident I've installed it properly.

I've never pulled a permit for a roof either, or even a room addition. They friggin hate me. LOL

 

[mnwebb]

How much savings is (Mr.Cool) 17.5 SEER compared to (Mitsubishi) 23.1 SEER?

The cost difference is $500.00 plus someone to do the final hook-up (Anybody in MN Twin Cities know of a guy?). It might be worth the price if the savings are great and the longevity of the Mitsubishi is greater. You have to think that the Mitsubishi is built better overall, no?

Thx,
Wilson

 

[Browneye]

How much savings is (Mr.Cool) 17.5 SEER compared to (Mitsubishi) 23.1 SEER?

The cost difference is $500.00 plus someone to do the final hook-up (Anybody in MN Twin Cities know of a guy?). It might be worth the price if the savings are great and the longevity of the Mitsubishi is greater. You have to think that the Mitsubishi is built better overall, no?

Thx,
Wilson

Perhaps this calculator can help you: https://kobiecomplete.com/cool-tips/seer-savings-calculator/

For a 2-ton it says you will save about $90 per year.
I can't comment on the Mitsu vs MrCool for quality or durability, but mitsu has a good reputation and they charge plenty for it. IIRC they all have the same compressor, but perhaps some experts here can comment.
As far as 'better built' I doubt it, but perhaps someone has specifics.

In years past there was domestic and foriegn production for these types of appliances, but my understanding is that the basic components all come from china, and from other asian countries like japan and singapore.

I saw recent press release from the major compressor maker in china that was boasting their 100-millionth unit or some such. The numbers were staggering. Mini-splits just haven't taken off in the US like they have in other parts of the world. You can get a split unit installed for about $50 in most places around the world, particularly third world countries. In the US we have a very mature HVAC industry and the participants are not going to give up their profit model that has served them so well over the years - there just isn't enough money in split systems to support their current business model.


EDIT: BTW, MrCool also offers higher-seer units, so there's that option as well. AFAIK the mitusbishi product is nearly twice the cost installed - they quoted me about $5500 for a 2-ton unit. I installed a 1 and a 2 ton all in for about half of that. By my calculation I could replace them both for cash and still be ahead. And I hate trades people mucking around with my stuff - they always figure out a way to extract more money out of you. They wanted from $12K to $18K to replace my central system and the old gas furnace works just great. I stripped out the old lineset and removed the hair handler, rebuilt the housing/plenum, and tuned up the old gas furnace - it works better than ever. In my eyes I've saved at least ten grand, likely more. Dear god.
One guy told me they would not mess with the old furnace. Sure.

 

[MattT]

Perhaps this calculator can help you: https://kobiecomplete.com/cool-tips/seer-savings-calculator/

For a 2-ton it says you will save about $90 per year.

You need to change the State and City individually. Comes out to $34 a year which pushes break even beyond the life of the equipment for the A/C side.

If mnwebb also wants to use the unit for heat that'll probably make the higher SEER unit justifiable. And that far north he should be looking at hyper heat units for heating.

 

[mnwebb]

Thanks BrownEye and MattT!

 

[clymer]

Been a while since I pulled up on this thread, but thought I would send an update. Had this 24K unit delivered from Ingrams a little over one year ago and installed it shortly there after. After a year of running basically every night, so far so good. I am in MA and we had a typical winter. Even in the teens this thing blows hot air and supplements the oil-fired forced hotwater baseboard system quite well (I saved probably at least one + 1/2 tank of oil this winter so for the extra $50 a month in electricity I feel way ahead. Plus my 40 year old boiler / oil burner get a break. But i really picked this up for the AC because this little ranch gets hot as balls in the summer, and for this the unit has been spectacular and quiet. What i really want to know is how these things perform after several years. Good to know that Ingrams sent replacement parts after two years under warranty, but does anyone have any experience with how these perform after more than a couple of years?

 

[Browneye]

Been a while since I pulled up on this thread, but thought I would send an update. Had this 24K unit delivered from Ingrams a little over one year ago and installed it shortly there after. After a year of running basically every night, so far so good. I am in MA and we had a typical winter. Even in the teens this thing blows hot air and supplements the oil-fired forced hotwater baseboard system quite well (I saved probably at least one + 1/2 tank of oil this winter so for the extra $50 a month in electricity I feel way ahead. Plus my 40 year old boiler / oil burner get a break. But i really picked this up for the AC because this little ranch gets hot as balls in the summer, and for this the unit has been spectacular and quiet. What i really want to know is how these things perform after several years. Good to know that Ingrams sent replacement parts after two years under warranty, but does anyone have any experience with how these perform after more than a couple of years?

^^Like. Same experience here...my old gas furnace runs first thing in the morning, then the split units take over. Silent, efficient, comfortable, gotta love it.

Mine will be a year old in another month or so. Zero issues. Keep your compressor unit cooling fins cleaned out, and clean your air handler intake filters. You should be good to go.

For the money, I'd be happy to get 5 years out of mine. I'm moving then anyway - get the hell out of dodge.

 

[Horses Ghost]

I need some help, after reading every response in this thread I have decided on a Mr Cool 36K unit. I have a shop that is 30X60X14 but there are 2 rooms so the total space needed to be cooled is 30X36. I am trying to decide on the DIY 36k single unit or the 2 wall units 36k and have a HVAC guy finish the hookup. I know it's a hard question to answer but do you think I would be better off spending the extra money and buy the 2 head units instead of the single DIY?

 

[justinjoyal]

^^ Why 36k ?

 

[Horses Ghost]

^^ Why 36k ?

That's a good question, I had 3 different HVAC companies out to my place to give me estimates. All 3 of them recommended 36k so I am kind of going on their recommendations. I got bids anywhere from $5-6,000 for a single unit. None of them seemed to have much knowledge or seemed very willing to do it. That is one of the problems here is that we are to close to the oil patch and it seems that they will do the work but want to make big margins to do it. I am open to any suggestions

 

[dcg9381]

Your margins aren't out of line with what I see - 100% - 200% markup up on actual hardware costs when professionally installed.

You're needing 30x36x14 cooled - depending on how it is insulated and your climate, 36k isn't too out of line. I'm running 48k in 2400 sqft, 16' - foam insulted and I expect it to struggle in the summer, but I'm south and it can get into the upper 90s, low 100s. Remember, these things can throttle back and over-sizing isn't as big a deal as it is with a traditional unit. If you split the outputs, I don't think you'll have that full capacity in your single room - but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Browneye]

I wasn't clear if you were looking at a single 36K unit or one with two air handlers - split between two rooms.

The DIY version doesn't have multi head units as an option, so you would have to source one that does. You could still do all of the install and have a hvac specialist do the line vac-test-turnup and sign off on your warranty. I found a couple of local guys that would do that 'off the clock' for two to four hundred dollars.

And I second the sizing for that size building. A 2ton would probly do it, but having the extra capacity surely won't hurt.

I have a 1 ton in our master bedroom end of the house, it's actually two bedrooms and a bathroom, and as long as you leave the doors open it cools the whole end of the house. It's mostly just loafing along, the area is about 400', but it sure works great and no issues. We love it for heating as well - can shut the main house down to 60 but maintain our bedroom at 64-65 for comfort overnight. Ya, we get acclimatized here in so-Cal, 70 is sweater temps.

 

[Horses Ghost]

I am looking at both options, the 36K single DIY and the 36K with 2 heads installed in the one space with having a hvac guy do final setup. I am just wondering if 1 airhandler would work good or would I be better off with 2.

 

[Horses Ghost]

I went and reread my first post and I see where I made it confusing. I only need to cool the big portion of the shop, the 30X36. The Mr Cool's I am looking at are the 2 18K airhandler and the DIY 36K.

 

[SALIV8]

I'd diy and I bet you'll be happy with it.

 

[Browneye]

I'd diy and I bet you'll be happy with it.

^^This.
I see no reason for double air handlers.
Did I see correctly that the ceiling is 14' high? If so your air will layer with warmer air higher and the cool air will sink, which is exactly what you want. There's not a lot of advantage to blowing a lot of air around to mix it up since you won't be spending much time in the room over 6' high or so.

Up-thread there was a similar project and he reported back that this is exactly what happened and he was happy with it.

 

[Tobyboom]

I'm just about all set to purchase one of these, but I have one issue. Is it possible for the line set coming out of the rear of the unit and make an upward turn at all, or does it need to remain level and then slope downwards?

The only spot in my garage I can install it just so happens to be on an interior wall, so I can't just go straight through. I'm wondering if I can go into the wall, make an upward turn through the header, into the attic, and then run it to an outside wall.

I'm concerned that a quick turn at the unit will result in poor drainage, and all the water will just drip back through it and into the garage.

Any insight?

EDIT:

After a little more research (not sure how I missed this), I now know you can run the lines straight out the side of the unit!!! That works perfectly for me as I can just run it along the wall inside the garage and then through the wall to the outside. I feel silly.

 

[SALIV8]

I'm just about all set to purchase one of these, but I have one issue. Is it possible for the line set coming out of the rear of the unit and make an upward turn at all, or does it need to remain level and then slope downwards?

The only spot in my garage I can install it just so happens to be on an interior wall, so I can't just go straight through. I'm wondering if I can go into the wall, make an upward turn through the header, into the attic, and then run it to an outside wall.

I'm concerned that a quick turn at the unit will result in poor drainage, and all the water will just drip back through it and into the garage.

Any insight?

EDIT:

After a little more research (not sure how I missed this), I now know you can run the lines straight out the side of the unit!!! That works perfectly for me as I can just run it along the wall inside the garage and then through the wall to the outside. I feel silly.

Dont feel silly, most of us here like to help. Also look into mini condensate pumps if youd prefer to have your lines hidden. Aspen is a popular brand.

 

[HotrodHR]

Based on the input, advice and suggestions from folks on this thread I purchased and DIY installed the Mr. Cool 18K Btu mini-split. I'm going to attempt to attach some pics and give a brief review...

The install was straight forward. Ran dedicated 240 line and installed the 20 amp circuit myself. I opted for 10/3 cable (ordered it before the unit arrived) and probably should have run 12/2. With the 10/3 (or a 12/3) you end up with an extra wire (we'll call a neutral) that's not needed. Thought I might need heavier gauge in the future, but 10 gauge is a beast to feed up through finished walls and across attic.

Mounting the inside unit was a breeze except working the condenser line up into and through the attic and out the soffit. Plenty of exercise climbing ladders and crawling through the attic. Did this by myself... a helper would make it much easier.

Mounting the outside unit on a wall mount requires two people to lift it in place or use an engine hoist as I did. Drilling into brick was a slow process using a Ryobi battery powered hammer drill. Should have borrowed a larger corded unit from someone. Home Depot charges too much in my opinion to rent so I had an excuse to buy another tool.

Ran the condensate drain behind the sheetrock and out the back wall. I ran the unit for a while before I reinstalled the sheetrock to check for leaks.

Ran the dedicated power and inside unit to condenser line set through the attic and out the soffit. Ordered the brown lineset cover from supplyhouse.com. Adequate product and did the job. I ordered the power cable (from condenser to disconnect) online (electrical whip). Connection was easy with the whip included fittings for the disconnect box and the unit.

The inside unit power and control wires/plug (from the line set to condenser) barely fits through the opening in the cover on the condenser. There's no "fitting" so I used a rubber grommet (sliced one side) to go around the wire and fit in the hole to protect the wire from the sharp edge. Probably overkill. Found the grommet that fit almost perfect at Lowes in a 9 piece kit in the hardware section.

I took my time and did the job over a couple of weekends. The exterior unit runs quiet and the inside unit is unbelievably quiet. My shop is 23 x 23 x 12.5 and the unit cooled it down quickly, and as cold as an icebox.

Overall I'm please with the unit, quality and price. We'll see how it performs when the Alabama summer hits, and how well it does this winter.

 

[SALIV8]

Very nice install hot Rod!!

 

[aunsafe2015]

Based on the input, advice and suggestions from folks on this thread I purchased and DIY installed the Mr. Cool 18K Btu mini-split. I'm going to attempt to attach some pics and give a brief review...

The install was straight forward. Ran dedicated 240 line and installed the 20 amp circuit myself. I opted for 10/3 cable (ordered it before the unit arrived) and probably should have run 12/2. With the 10/3 (or a 12/3) you end up with an extra wire (we'll call a neutral) that's not needed. Thought I might need heavier gauge in the future, but 10 gauge is a beast to feed up through finished walls and across attic.

Mounting the inside unit was a breeze except working the condenser line up into and through the attic and out the soffit. Plenty of exercise climbing ladders and crawling through the attic. Did this by myself... a helper would make it much easier.

Mounting the outside unit on a wall mount requires two people to lift it in place or use an engine hoist as I did. Drilling into brick was a slow process using a Ryobi battery powered hammer drill. Should have borrowed a larger corded unit from someone. Home Depot charges too much in my opinion to rent so I had an excuse to buy another tool.

Ran the condensate drain behind the sheetrock and out the back wall. I ran the unit for a while before I reinstalled the sheetrock to check for leaks.

Ran the dedicated power and inside unit to condenser line set through the attic and out the soffit. Ordered the brown lineset cover from supplyhouse.com. Adequate product and did the job. I ordered the power cable (from condenser to disconnect) online (electrical whip). Connection was easy with the whip included fittings for the disconnect box and the unit.

The inside unit power and control wires/plug (from the line set to condenser) barely fits through the opening in the cover on the condenser. There's no "fitting" so I used a rubber grommet (sliced one side) to go around the wire and fit in the hole to protect the wire from the sharp edge. Probably overkill. Found the grommet that fit almost perfect at Lowes in a 9 piece kit in the hardware section.

I took my time and did the job over a couple of weekends. The exterior unit runs quiet and the inside unit is unbelievably quiet. My shop is 23 x 23 x 12.5 and the unit cooled it down quickly, and as cold as an icebox.

Overall I'm please with the unit, quality and price. We'll see how it performs when the Alabama summer hits, and how well it does this winter.

Looks good. Why not shorten the electrical whip?

 

[Browneye]

MrCool rules!

 

[HotrodHR]

Looks good. Why not shorten the electrical whip?

I guess I could do that...

 

[bimmer1980]

Thanks for posting your experience and the pics of the install!

 

[Browneye]

As an update to my install...
The two units have been in for nearly a year now. All I can say is they are perfect. Quiet, efficient, innocuous, trouble-free.

I recently checked both intake filters on the air handlers and no dirt yet. The house is SO much cleaner now with the windows and doors mostly closed. They have been a game-changer at our house.

 

[aunsafe2015]

As an update to my install...

The two units have been in for nearly a year now. All I can say is they are perfect. Quiet, efficient, innocuous, trouble-free.



I recently checked both intake filters on the air handlers and no dirt yet. The house is SO much cleaner now with the windows and doors mostly closed. They have been a game-changer at our house. [emoji106]

How well do the MrCool units do at maintaining heat capacity at sub-freezing outdoor temperatures?

 

[yeldogt]

I wish they would start using a newer model with higher specifications .. it's a great idea.

It all comes down to "IF" you have someone local that will do the refrigerant hoop up -- if you do the cost is about the same and you end up with a unit in the low 20's SEER

 

[Browneye]

How well do the MrCool units do at maintaining heat capacity at sub-freezing outdoor temperatures?

I have no idea. It rarely gets below 40 here.
I would not buy a mini-split for heating, I would use a gas-fired appliance.
Our old central-air CNG furnace still works great for those few cooler months.

I wish they would start using a newer model with higher specifications .. it's a great idea.

It all comes down to "IF" you have someone local that will do the refrigerant hoop up -- if you do the cost is about the same and you end up with a unit in the low 20's SEER

That would be their 'Oasis' series units. Not DIY.
Bear in mind that several HVAC contractors quoted me more than $5K to install a mini-split in our home. Any of them. I installed TWO of the MrCool DIY units, a 12Kbtu and a 24Kbtu, for right about $2500 total.

It also takes a LONG time to recover the extra cost for a higher seer unit. In most cases, depending on your installation costs and use, it's well beyond five years.

 

[yeldogt]

I have no idea. It rarely gets below 40 here.
I would not buy a mini-split for heating, I would use a gas-fired appliance.
Our old central-air CNG furnace still works great for those few cooler months.



That would be their 'Oasis' series units. Not DIY.
Bear in mind that several HVAC contractors quoted me more than $5K to install a mini-split in our home. Any of them. I installed TWO of the MrCool DIY units, a 12Kbtu and a 24Kbtu, for right about $2500 total.

It also takes a LONG time to recover the extra cost for a higher seer unit. In most cases, depending on your installation costs and use, it's well beyond five years.

With the smaller BTU units - the efficiencies of the best units are into the 30's. Once up into the 24k -- there is not as much difference. But, still into the 25 -30% range.

Yes -- the install is profitable for them. That's why it pays to purchase the better equipment if you must have it installed .. and most do.

Hay -- I'm not knocking them (Mr. Cool) ... I just wish they had more models w/ different line lengths. For those needing the heat side they don't have the specifications.

 

[Browneye]

With the smaller BTU units - the efficiencies of the best units are into the 30's. Once up into the 24k -- there is not as much difference. But, still into the 25 -30% range.

Yes -- the install is profitable for them. That's why it pays to purchase the better equipment if you must have it installed .. and most do.

Hay -- I'm not knocking them (Mr. Cool) ... I just wish they had more models w/ different line lengths. For those needing the heat side they don't have the specifications.

For sure. I could surely have used a 8' line set on my 1-ton unit. There was a LOT of extra.

As far as heat - on those cold days we had over winter the MrCool really kicks out some heat. I just don't have any experience with sub-freezing operation. Likely never will.

 

[alxmlr789]

If anyone is looking for a good price on these, costco has the DIY 18K for 999 24K for 1299, and 36K for 1799. All have 99 dollar shipping. Best price I have seen by 500 bucks or so.

 

[Browneye]

That's a couple of hundred less than what I paid for my 24K unit from Ingrams.
My 12K unit was a scratch and dent one from them for about $875. I did have to do some case repairs on that one but it saved me a lot of $$ and works great.

Their ad copy said there were scratches on the door cover on the air handler, but some polishing with Gel Gloss and it looked like brand new. I could not find any scratches in it, I think it was just dirt.

 

[alxmlr789]

Just ordered a 24k from costco, 1450 delivered. I did see the price match guarantee from ingrams however i don't think they will price match costco. Saved about 450 dollars over their delivered price.

 

[dcg9381]

How well do the MrCool units do at maintaining heat capacity at sub-freezing outdoor temperatures?

According to specs:
"Minimum Operating Temperature - Heating - 5 degrees F"

I looked for a bit, but couldn't find a performance graph. It's out there some where. On my ductless unit (Daikin) - heating capacity drops off really quickly at freezing. Off the top of my head, 50% less heating BTUs at 32 degrees, give or take. And it sounds like Mr. cool can't operate below 5 degrees....

I would not use one of these as a primary heat source in climates north of about Oklahoma..

 

[Browneye]

Just ordered a 24k from costco, 1450 delivered. I did see the price match guarantee from ingrams however i don't think they will price match costco. Saved about 450 dollars over their delivered price.

IIRC I paid about hundred bucks more. Ingrams included shipping, no tax. That was before I had a Costco card.

You'll still have to go thru Ingrams for any tech support or warranty claims. They are the primary distribution arm for MrCool. From what I can gather, based on my research, the parent company is simply an importer and distributor for the brand. You buy enough units of anything from China you can have your own brand.

They are buying containers and bringing them into Miami.