wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
wow that is something else on the well pump.... definitely needs to be fixed
My dad's house OMG
- Thread starter AntonLargiader
- Start date
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AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Spoke with the electrician today. He's on board although it will be a few weeks (he is moving to a different house). No problem with my proceeding with the subpanel.
2-2-2-4 Aluminum SER gives me 90A IIRC. To get a true 100A, sounds like Copper 3-3-3-5 SER is the way to go? It might be available locally.
2-2-2-4 Aluminum SER gives me 90A IIRC. To get a true 100A, sounds like Copper 3-3-3-5 SER is the way to go? It might be available locally.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
If you want 100a, you could go with #1 AL
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
I was just thinking about copper as a thinner/easier alternative. It's only going to be about three feet so cost isn't an issue. #1 Al or #3 Cu, either is OK for 100A?
Another question for anyone who knows these old CH panels: Where is the panel itself bonded? It looks like both of the neutral bars are on insulators and connected by the copper bus. It doesn't matter to me right now but if in the future this panel gets separated, I'm wondering what would be involved. It's a CH24BM2.
Another question for anyone who knows these old CH panels: Where is the panel itself bonded? It looks like both of the neutral bars are on insulators and connected by the copper bus. It doesn't matter to me right now but if in the future this panel gets separated, I'm wondering what would be involved. It's a CH24BM2.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Got started on this today. Ripped out the line-tapped wires and the boxes that they powered. A last parting OMG was seeing how they installed that FPE box without cable clamps:
So yeah, that's an undisconnectable wire rubbing against a sharp edge of a knockout. Same deal at the top of that same box. But it's all gone now.
I disconnected a few circuits that could be done without for a while and shuffled things around to restore basic cooking and illumination, and that's pretty much where it ended today. Lowes has no SER cable at any nearby location, so I'll hit one of the supply houses on Monday. Tomorrow I will probably go up and install a plywood backer for the new subpanel.
The house has way more home runs than it needs, which is really the root of the problem. Generally all of the ceiling lights for a floor are on the same breaker, but it's only two or three receptacles per circuit. Four circuits for the garage (two receps on each wall, four walls), two recep circuits for the master bedroom (two receps on one, three on another), etc. Some circuits I never found anything that was controlled but maybe in a few months my dad will notice something that doesn't work.
So yeah, that's an undisconnectable wire rubbing against a sharp edge of a knockout. Same deal at the top of that same box. But it's all gone now.
I disconnected a few circuits that could be done without for a while and shuffled things around to restore basic cooking and illumination, and that's pretty much where it ended today. Lowes has no SER cable at any nearby location, so I'll hit one of the supply houses on Monday. Tomorrow I will probably go up and install a plywood backer for the new subpanel.
The house has way more home runs than it needs, which is really the root of the problem. Generally all of the ceiling lights for a floor are on the same breaker, but it's only two or three receptacles per circuit. Four circuits for the garage (two receps on each wall, four walls), two recep circuits for the master bedroom (two receps on one, three on another), etc. Some circuits I never found anything that was controlled but maybe in a few months my dad will notice something that doesn't work.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
They don't even engage the panel properly. They (and a few of the other breakers) have an engagement tab that is spaced farther from the stab than the panel supports. They were pushed onto the stab but the tab does not engage anything. They also don't engage into the new subpanel that I bought. The existing breakers had four (that I could find) different configurations for clipping into the panel: wide-spaced metal clip (works both), narrow-spaced metal clip (only works on old one), plastic groove (works on both) and extended plastic groove (works on neither). The tab for the 50A GFCI spa breaker is broken. I should have taken pics but some of y'all probably know exactly what I found.
I suspect the main panel is going to get replaced anyway.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Family, right? At this point, just trying to keep him alive until the electrician comes. One house fire is enough.
Oh and what’s a post from me without another OMG pic. I suppose if you do this really skillfully you can do the clamping and the ground all in one.
Oh and what’s a post from me without another OMG pic. I suppose if you do this really skillfully you can do the clamping and the ground all in one.
If they flop around where click on on the rail, they were not intended to be installed there, I used to have a photo of a C-H interior that was made for twins but it went away with the Photobucket debacle.
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AntonLargiader
Well-known member
I replaced/rearranged breakers so that the tandems are out of there. Still need a few more. My general plan is to put all of the 240V loads onto the old main panel so nearly all of the 120V loads will go over to the sub.
I ran into a snag which kept me from connecting the SER. The Eaton CH lug that is sold now does not fit the old CH neutral bus. The newer panels have 3/16" screws and the old panel has 1/4" screws. I'll stop by the supply house tomorrow and see if they have a lug with the right screw.
I ran into a snag which kept me from connecting the SER. The Eaton CH lug that is sold now does not fit the old CH neutral bus. The newer panels have 3/16" screws and the old panel has 1/4" screws. I'll stop by the supply house tomorrow and see if they have a lug with the right screw.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
The CH9SU3 (which a local place had) looks like exactly right.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Brief update. Due to the lack of neutral space in the old panel I moved most of the 1-pole loads over to the new sub. All of the 2-poles are in the old panel except for a MWBC. Two of the 1-poles in the old panel are doubled up but for now I'm leaving them alone.
I found a skinned wire feeding one of the baseboard heaters. Looks like the guy cut it too deeply when he cut the outer jacket off the UF-B. I slid two layers of heat shrink over it.
I also discovered that the insulation on the black feeder is split, with exposed strands. I left a circuit (for an outdoor recep that we don't need soon) exactly where I had it because I honestly don't want to touch anything in that area any more. The deadfront pushes on the red feeder so I'm not reinstalling the deadfront. The electrician will replace the feeder and install a disconnect at some point and then it will be dealt with. I suspect that panel will be replaced. In hindsight I should have bought a larger MB panel, wired it as a sub, and then just moved it over when the feeder is replaced. As it is I left the wires all at their original length in case they get moved again.
There are three circuits where we have no idea what they feed. Might discover something is off one day.
Skinned wire. Was hot and I was handling it. Yikes.
Deteriorating feeder
Current status of old panel
New panel
I found a skinned wire feeding one of the baseboard heaters. Looks like the guy cut it too deeply when he cut the outer jacket off the UF-B. I slid two layers of heat shrink over it.
I also discovered that the insulation on the black feeder is split, with exposed strands. I left a circuit (for an outdoor recep that we don't need soon) exactly where I had it because I honestly don't want to touch anything in that area any more. The deadfront pushes on the red feeder so I'm not reinstalling the deadfront. The electrician will replace the feeder and install a disconnect at some point and then it will be dealt with. I suspect that panel will be replaced. In hindsight I should have bought a larger MB panel, wired it as a sub, and then just moved it over when the feeder is replaced. As it is I left the wires all at their original length in case they get moved again.
There are three circuits where we have no idea what they feed. Might discover something is off one day.
Skinned wire. Was hot and I was handling it. Yikes.
Deteriorating feeder
Current status of old panel
New panel
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Making progress.
I can't deal with fixing old ****... I'd rip everything out and start over, full nuclear. You sound more patient than me
I can't deal with fixing old ****... I'd rip everything out and start over, full nuclear. You sound more patient than me
rooster59
Well-known member
This. There is a pool and a hot tub with no GFCI? I would rip those feeds out of the panel immediately. At least you can run away from an electrical fire, electrocution is kinda quick.Making progress.
I can't deal with fixing old ****... I'd rip everything out and start over, full nuclear. You sound more patient than me
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Inability to kill power to the house is what kept me from ripping it out. My dad's electrician will be along to do that.
Hot tub is the big GFCI in the lower right. Pool is not on a GFCI but has been off (at the pool disconnect) for the season. It'll be on a GFCI before we are back in business, but there's no point buying it until we know what panel it's going in.
Hot tub is the big GFCI in the lower right. Pool is not on a GFCI but has been off (at the pool disconnect) for the season. It'll be on a GFCI before we are back in business, but there's no point buying it until we know what panel it's going in.
OP
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
Back on that hot tub GFCI…. The breaker that was in place for that doesn’t fit properly; if you look at the bottom of the CH250GF breaker, there’s a rounded area between the rail clip and the stabs that hits the bus bar in this panel.
From this ill-fitting breaker there is THWN going straight through the wall into an exterior box with 50A breaker that serves as the local disconnect for the hot tub. Would it be OK to put a regular breaker inside and have the GFCI on the outside breaker? I can see the advantage to having GFCI inside (that way the exterior box itself and people operating it are protected) and I suspect that is the answer, but I’d like to know the detailed answer.
From this ill-fitting breaker there is THWN going straight through the wall into an exterior box with 50A breaker that serves as the local disconnect for the hot tub. Would it be OK to put a regular breaker inside and have the GFCI on the outside breaker? I can see the advantage to having GFCI inside (that way the exterior box itself and people operating it are protected) and I suspect that is the answer, but I’d like to know the detailed answer.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Yes, that's why hot tub disconnects come with a GFCI breaker installed. Just find a CH 3R panel and you can use the breaker you already have.