My little rant about Craftsman tools

[thetreshon]

When is the last time you visited/lived there? Seems to be quite a market for made in USA tools there. Sure they have a decent selection of their own, but don't for one second, believe the market is completely isolated.

Ha! True, I've never been there...so I guess you're right, shouldn't believe everything I've read from trade reports regarding Japans imports etc... I'm obviously not totally correct, but my dad was in the auto industry, and they always stressed Japan wouldn't take any cars but their own. So, yup - I generalized everything.

Japan does seem to love American and Canadian rock bands though...I've heard my whole life, "they're not that big here, but they're HUGE in Japan!"

 

[Carl B]

But, what do I know? I just wrench for a living. LOLZORSK8Zcoptor!!

Then most likely not very much...

Sorry ... but you just set that one up too well to let it pass..

LOL
Carl B.

 

[lowbucktruck]

I say, "go easy on the boy!" The OP, that is.

So yeah, IBJanky, welcome to the Concerned Craftsman Club.

Yep, well said Squankum! I'm a member of that club!
Most of the made-in-china tools I've encountered at Sears are the general purpose stuff (pliers, locking pliers, etc) but the hardline tools seem to still be made-in-USA. If you really want a pair of USA-made Craftsman "vise-grip" pliers, you will have to hit the garage sales and estate sales to find them.

Very similar discussion on the Craftsman Community site...
http://community.craftsman.com/Tools/topics/-over-Craftsman-hand-tools-made-in-China/posts

Giving that "dead horse" another kick... whew!

 

[diesel research]

If COO is important, there are still many other options available. The same companies who previously stamped USA tools for CMAN.

 

[ChrisF250]

I guess I just don't see the vast quantities of foreign produced stuff when I walk down the aisle at Sears. Yes the boxes are not, but I can understand that. Sure some of the full polish sets aren't but the USA made professionals are right next to them. I can't even think of a tool I have from Craftsman that isn't USA made but yet every week the continual Sears bashing begins.

 

[diesel research]

I guess I just don't see the vast quantities of foreign produced stuff when I walk down the aisle at Sears. Yes the boxes are not, but I can understand that. Sure some of the full polish sets aren't but the USA made professionals are right next to them. I can't even think of a tool I have from Craftsman that isn't USA made but yet every week the continual Sears bashing begins.

Everyone keeps claiming "majority made in USA", but the idea of majority hasn't really been defined so well. If you exclude most of the wrenches, you get one answer. If you concentrate mostly on wrenches, you get a different answer. That is wrenches of various types. Ratcheting, combo, flarenut, deep offset, stubby, "elbow", "spline", crowfoot, etc.

That is the make or break part of the deal. Just depends on which aisle you are in and how fast your local store moves merchandise.

Clear screw drivers and raised panel wrenches aren't particularly much to boast about, and in a few cases have some room for complaint regardless of price.

Obviously, since your store still has professional tools on the shelves, it does not fit the category of "fast merchandise mover"

It's the same in the drill bit aisle. If you go into a slow store you will see Made in USA Bosch/VA stuff....BUT stamped something like "1996"

Power tool and air tool aisles, well nothing surprising.

A little bit still going on in the hammer and carpentry aisles.

Lisle somewhat helping balance out the automotive aisle.

You would pretty much have to be standing directly in front of the raised panel stuff/most socket drive stuff to make a claim of "mostly made in the USA" and/or be in a slow store.

 

[bhclark]

Keep in mind that all "made in China" tools are not the same, just as not everything "made in the USA" is not superior.

The company buying assembly time dictates the specs. Sometimes they spec the cheapest, sometimes they demand a higher quality. Some do a better job of quality control while others don't bother and don't care.

 

[brickG-man]

Since about 30+ years ago.

Certain elements of the Craftsman line have been outsourced for quite some time. Sadly, it seems more items in the line are finding their way overseas, but, to be accurate, Craftsman isn't "making their handtools outside of the USA."

The majority of stuff, including the hardline (ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers, raised-panel wrenches, etc.) are all still made in the USA.

While you may not like to hear it, China's a big country. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it's out of the same factory as Harbor Freight's stuff (and as is evidenced by a lot of discussion here, even if it did, it doesn't mean it's ****).

I don't know if you have checked recently but as of last week I am not so sure that one could say that "the majority of stuff are still made in the USA".
I was at Sears last week and even several of the ratchets were made in China. And this was the Craftsman line not the evolve junk. Wrenches too I was very disappointed, so much so that I wrote them. I did not hear back though.

 

[kythri]

I don't know if you have checked recently but as of last week I am not so sure that one could say that "the majority of stuff are still made in the USA".
I was at Sears last week and even several of the ratchets were made in China. And this was the Craftsman line not the evolve junk. Wrenches too I was very disappointed, so much so that I wrote them. I did not hear back though.

I'm going to have to challenge you to provide proof of Chinese ratchets that carry the "Craftsman" name that aren't Evolv.

If you're at a Sears Canada, that doesn't count.

 

[NWphotog]

I'm going to have to challenge you to provide proof of Chinese ratchets that carry the "Craftsman" name that aren't Evolv.

If you're at a Sears Canada, that doesn't count.

Unfortunately he is correct.

 

[kythri]

Still won't believe it until someone shows some proof.

Which ratchet or ratchets are we talking about?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Still won't believe it until someone shows some proof.

Which ratchet or ratchets are we talking about?

Agreed, along with the sockets...people always say this, then no pics follow....so we will see.....

 

[NWphotog]

Agreed, along with the sockets...people always say this, then no pics follow....so we will see.....

I can't speak for others but I don't get to Sears very often. I would really like it NOT to be true.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

I was at a pretty high volume Sears store on Friday (Superstition Springs Mall in Mesa, AZ) and the only Made in China ratchets were the Evolv line and some Gearwrench stuff. All of the low profiles, RP's and two clearance RH 1/4" drives (which now live in my box) were clearly marked USA.

From what I saw in hand tools, only the gimmick stuff was Chinese - the basic RP stuff, sockets, screwdrivers, nutdrivers and whatnot were still plainly marked USA. Even the Chinese stuff appears to have some decent quality control. I bought a set of the "Universal" metric combos (Chinese) and they saved my *** today (rounded off a bolt changing the torque strut on the police avoidance vehicle).

 

[brickG-man]

I'm going to have to challenge you to provide proof of Chinese ratchets that carry the "Craftsman" name that aren't Evolv.

If you're at a Sears Canada, that doesn't count.

This was not at a Sears in Canada. This was a a Sears store in Alexandria, VA at the Landmark Mall. Unfortunately, I am out of town for the next week plus but when I get back I would be happy to go back and take a picture. These were Craftsman ratchets!!!

 

[billymade]

AFAIK, the only craftsman ratchets made in china... are the evolve/craftsman line....

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_1...ctType=CAT_REC&prop17=Craftsman Evolv ratchet

 

[dieselmike]

i will continue to enjoy and purchase us and canada made craftsman products. i will continue to purchase items selectively based on their quality, country of origin and price.

 

[american lockpicker]

I prefer to buy tools made from the Philppines than China.

Me too. Also I know from experience their electronics are well made.

 

[RhodesSpeedShop]

Not diving deep in the rant but went shopping for a friends birthday gift this weekend and decided to stop by sears after remembering this thread......WOW...actually had a hard time finding something NOT made in Taiwan or China. Of course the common ratchets, sockets and raised panel stuff were all "Made in USA" but all the polished ratcheting wrenches, ratcheting open ends, universal wrenches and ratchets, etc, etc...all imported. It seemed like everything ON SALE or new was now imported.

Again not getting into the debate but i prefer to keep my money here and was suprised that i had to put an effort there to do so. It was news to me.

 

[honcho]

I'm going to have to challenge you to provide proof of Chinese ratchets that carry the "Craftsman" name that aren't Evolv.

If you're at a Sears Canada, that doesn't count.

In the past, there have been Taiwan made Craftsman marked round head ratchets. I do not believe there are any in their current lineup. I am partial to the older round head style but mine are made in USA. My father in Mississippi has a set of Craftsman marked sockets with accompanying ratchet where the sockets and ratchet are stamped Taiwan. Again, not current product.

On a related note, I have a set of double box end metric wrenches I bought about 1982 at Sears in Hampton, VA that are marked Sears and were made in Japan. They have been incredibly abused over the years and are tough! Can't say the same about the double open end set I bought at the same time, also made in japan.

 

[SMKS]

I'm going to have to challenge you to provide proof of Chinese ratchets that carry the "Craftsman" name that aren't Evolv.

If you're at a Sears Canada, that doesn't count.

+1

All the real Craftsman ratchets are made in the USA, except the black Craftsman ratchet that comes in the spline socket set, that one is Taiwan.

However, there are some gimmick ratchets that are marked "Craftsman" that aren't USA made.

Here are a few examples:

Spline socket set. Taiwan, I believe.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00931088000P?prdNo=12

Thumbwheel ratchet. If I remember correctly, this is made in China.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00992784000P?prdNo=22

Pass through socket set. (I haven't looked at this, but I think Stuey at Toolguyd said it was imported.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00929309000P?prdNo=1

 

[Obie]

The pass through set is Taiwan, if I remember right. Actually very good quality though. But yeah, it is pretty sad to see so many imported Craftsman tools selling for the same price.

 

[kythri]

OK, so, the new Universal and Pass-through stuff.

That does put the hole in my claim that there aren't any Taiwanese/Chinese "Craftsman" ratchets. I'll give brickG-man that one.

 

[blarf]

The sale price on the combo wrench sets was too good to pass up, so I broke down and went to Sears yesterday. My usual MO is to order online with in-store pickup. That way I don't have to track down an employee, don't have to hunt for misplaced items on the shelf, etc. Well, that failed. Turns out they didn't have the combo wrench set in stock last night, and whoever was handling the merchandise pickup this afternoon must have fallen into the toilet or something. Freaking half an hour with a bunch of other people waiting... and no employees to be seen.

That gave me some time to look around the tool department. It looked as if nobody had been back there in a few days (some display cases were open, stuff was strewn about). The Sears I usually patronize typically has this stuff out in the open so you can look at it. While I didn't see any ratchets or sockets proclaiming to be Made in China, I did notice (as plenty of people have already pointed out) that nearly all the newer stock omitted the COO and lifetime warranty info. In their place was a "forever warranty" statement. Gotta be easier to weasel out of.

I was definitely bummed to see that the CMan "Professional" locking pliers I bought were proudly stamped "Made in China", despite the web site *clearly* showing "Made in USA". For that price, they're definitely going back to Sears after I use them.

 

[chevy302dz]

There is something everyone seems to forget about Craftsman, they themselves do not manufacture anything. So in many cases it's not that Craftsman is outsourcing their production it's that the contract manufacter did (Vermont American, and ViseGrip being 2prime examples). So while Craftsman may be guilty of looking outside of the country some of their gimmick type tools most of the other stuff was beyond their control not that it makes it any better but at least blame the right people namely VA, Irwin, Cooper, etc.

 

[pipsters]

The pass through set is Taiwan, if I remember right. Actually very good quality though. But yeah, it is pretty sad to see so many imported Craftsman tools selling for the same price.

From looking at it, it looks like the thin profile ratchet but with a different interior to it.

 

[bhclark]

There is something everyone seems to forget about Craftsman, they themselves do not manufacture anything. So in many cases it's not that Craftsman is outsourcing their production it's that the contract manufacter did (Vermont American, and ViseGrip being 2prime examples). So while Craftsman may be guilty of looking outside of the country some of their gimmick type tools most of the other stuff was beyond their control not that it makes it any better but at least blame the right people namely VA, Irwin, Cooper, etc.

Exactly. Same with Kenmore and all of their "house" brands.

 

[blarf]

There is something everyone seems to forget about Craftsman, they themselves do not manufacture anything. So in many cases it's not that Craftsman is outsourcing their production it's that the contract manufacter did (Vermont American, and ViseGrip being 2prime examples). So while Craftsman may be guilty of looking outside of the country some of their gimmick type tools most of the other stuff was beyond their control not that it makes it any better but at least blame the right people namely VA, Irwin, Cooper, etc.

********. Do you really think Sears is going to sign contracts with a company and not have the faintest idea of their long-term plans? Sears goes with the cheapo overseas stuff because it's cheap. Likewise, do you really think that Sears couldn't enforce some sort of COO requirement?

Keep in mind that they carried European made pliers for a while, and they're going above and beyond to hide COO even on USA made tools. No, none of this is out of their control.

 

[chevy302dz]

********. Do you really think Sears is going to sign contracts with a company and not have the faintest idea of their long-term plans? Sears goes with the cheapo overseas stuff because it's cheap. Likewise, do you really think that Sears couldn't enforce some sort of COO requirement?

Keep in mind that they carried European made pliers for a while, and they're going above and beyond to hide COO even on USA made tools. No, none of this is out of their control.

Do you really think any major manfactuer is going to keep a line in the US just for Craftsman? The Craftsman brand is not Walmart they don't have the clout you give them credit for. As far as hiding COO they aren't any worse than most and are better than some. I don't like it any more than you do but place the blame where it belongs, with the manfactuers. Also keep in mind I'm not saying Craftsman is innocent on all counts they did lower standards for some tools and they do look to import a fair number of new/gimmick tools both of those are things that they can control.

 

[blarf]

Do you really think any major manfactuer is going to keep a line in the US just for Craftsman? The Craftsman brand is not Walmart they don't have the clout you give them credit for. As far as hiding COO they aren't any worse than most and are better than some. I don't like it any more than you do but place the blame where it belongs, with the manfactuers. Also keep in mind I'm not saying Craftsman is innocent on all counts they did lower standards for some tools and they do look to import a fair number of new/gimmick tools both of those are things that they can control.

No, I don't expect Sears to be a big enough draw for a company to keep an American production line open. But I would expect Sears to not actively try to source Chinese tools for their Craftsman line. I would also expect that Sears would make an attempt to find a not-third-world supplier if production were suddenly shipped to subpar facilities.

You say blame the manufacturers as if there's no manufacturing left. Well it was Sears that went from S-K (American made) to Danaher (Chinese made) for their premium line. It was Sears that went from Knipex (German made) to Stanley (Chinese made) for their locking pliers. There are quality manufacturers out there, but Sears is avoiding them.

As for being more honest about COO... more honest than who? Mac?

 

[slipjointed]

Do you really think any major manfactuer is going to keep a line in the US just for Craftsman? The Craftsman brand is not Walmart they don't have the clout you give them credit for. As far as hiding COO they aren't any worse than most and are better than some. I don't like it any more than you do but place the blame where it belongs, with the manfactuers. Also keep in mind I'm not saying Craftsman is innocent on all counts they did lower standards for some tools and they do look to import a fair number of new/gimmick tools both of those are things that they can control.

If your theory is true... try this test:

Buy:

-an open stock Craftsman Pro wrench (the ones that are still USA),

-and an open stock Craftsman Raised panel wrench.

Then, go to McMaster.com,

-and buy an open stock "Premium full polish combo wrench" as well as

-an open stock "Premium satin full polish combo wrench".


The wrenches you will recieve from McMaster will be Armstrong.


They will be identical to their respective Craftsman wrenches besides the stamping, and the raised panels. The full polish wrenches are nearly identical, and the satin wrenches even share the same CNC profiling around the beam and box end shown in a thread by member Elroy.

So, to date, Armstrong still makes the full polish and the satin wrenches that were being rebranded as Craftsman.

Sears, though, decided to axe the full polish Armstrong OEM'd wrenches, and go with CHINESE ****.

They did the same exact thing with the Craftsman ratcheting wrenches, the maxx beams, and others.

This isn't because Amrstrong decided to stop making the wrenches, it's because Sears decided to send yet another good American product to China for profit.

 

[chevy302dz]

No, I don't expect Sears to be a big enough draw for a company to keep an American production line open. But I would expect Sears to not actively try to source Chinese tools for their Craftsman line. I would also expect that Sears would make an attempt to find a not-third-world supplier if production were suddenly shipped to subpar facilities.

You say blame the manufacturers as if there's no manufacturing left. Well it was Sears that went from S-K (American made) to Danaher (Chinese made) for their premium line. It was Sears that went from Knipex (German made) to Stanley (Chinese made) for their locking pliers. There are quality manufacturers out there, but Sears is avoiding them.

As for being more honest about COO... more honest than who? Mac?

First let me correct a few mistakes in your statement: SK only manfactured a few items for Craftsman mostly in the Professional line and that was switched years ago to Danaher who manfactured them in the US until the line was dropped very recently. This may have been to remove compition from the new Craftsman Industrial line which still makes the full polish wrenches in the US or may have been due to the restructuring at Danaher. The few other SK items only went on clearence when SK went belly up. Craftsman locking pliers have always been ViseGrip they were US made until Irwin decided to move the factory for all ViseGrip manufacture. The only German pliers Craftsman sold were the 8" and 10" older vesion Cobra's which they may or may not still sell someone else can chime in with a answer on that one. I do agree about the sourcing on some of the new tools however everyone is doing that to one extent or another and all I can suggest is don't buy the new designs.

 

[chevy302dz]

If your theory is true... try this test:

Buy:

-an open stock Craftsman Pro wrench (the ones that are still USA),

-and an open stock Craftsman Raised panel wrench.

Then, go to McMaster.com,

-and buy an open stock "Premium full polish combo wrench" as well as

-an open stock "Premium satin full polish combo wrench".


The wrenches you will recieve from McMaster will be Armstrong.


They will be identical to their respective Craftsman wrenches besides the stamping, and the raised panels. The full polish wrenches are nearly identical, and the satin wrenches even share the same CNC profiling around the beam and box end shown in a thread by member Elroy.

So, to date, Armstrong still makes the full polish and the satin wrenches that were being rebranded as Craftsman.

Sears, though, decided to axe the full polish Armstrong OEM'd wrenches, and go with CHINESE ****.

They did the same exact thing with the Craftsman ratcheting wrenches, the maxx beams, and others.

This isn't because Amrstrong decided to stop making the wrenches, it's because Sears decided to send yet another good American product to China for profit.

No Sears spun off Craftsman. Craftsman made the decision to redo their lines. The professional line was removed completely and the Industrial line added. As you say the wrenches are still being made and infact are still sold under the Craftsman name at Grainger and possibily other places just not Sears. The other examples are all due soley to the manufactuer ViseGrips, taps and dies, any number of speciality, tools etc.

 

[slipjointed]

No Sears spun off Craftsman. Craftsman made the decision to redo their lines. The professional line was removed completely and the Industrial line added. As you say the wrenches are still being made and infact are still sold under the Craftsman name at Grainger and possibily other places just not Sears. The other examples are all due soley to the manufactuer ViseGrips, taps and dies, any number of speciality, tools etc.

You're making it sound like Craftsman runs Sears.

Craftsman management doesn't make the choice as to what ends up on Sear's shelves, Sears does. If Sears stores wanted to keep USA made full polish wrenches in their stores, then they would still be hanging on the racks, regardless of what new branding they'd devised.

The fact that they kept analogues of the same tools but made in China with a slightly different branding, supports my argument very strongly.

 

[chevy302dz]

No Sears can choose what to put on it's shelves based on what the manufactuer is offering. If Sears wants the industrial line of tools with the US made wrenches then they can request it but if it's not in Craftsman's best interest to sell them there or if Craftsman is bound by contract not to sell them there then it won't happen. No more than if Sears tells Irwin that they want US made ViseGrips Irwin could comply with the request but won't because it's not in their interest. As far as the China Craftsman wrenches I don't know if that was a request by Sears or a general offering by Craftsman you have to walk into a non Sears\KMart store selling Craftsman to see.

 

[blarf]

No Sears spun off Craftsman.

When?

Business Week still seems to think that Sears owns Craftsman.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...firm-to-license-craftsman-diehard-brands.html

Wiki too. The Craftsman.com website is currently down, but it is still branded as being part of Sears, and makes reference to being part of Sears Holdings. So, no, Sears is Craftsman. Craftsman is Sears. Sears is pushing the production to China and trying to hide it as best they can.

Besides, do you really think that Stanley is the only place to get locking pliers? If Sears wanted American (or European) made locking pliers they could easily contract out to someone else. The point I was making was that it is Sears that has been pushing for third world sourced junk. This is not the manufacturers' doing.

 

[chevy302dz]

When?

Business Week still seems to think that Sears owns Craftsman.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...firm-to-license-craftsman-diehard-brands.html

Wiki too. The Craftsman.com website is currently down, but it is still branded as being part of Sears, and makes reference to being part of Sears Holdings. So, no, Sears is Craftsman. Craftsman is Sears. Sears is pushing the production to China and trying to hide it as best they can.

Besides, do you really think that Stanley is the only place to get locking pliers? If Sears wanted American (or European) made locking pliers they could easily contract out to someone else. The point I was making was that it is Sears that has been pushing for third world sourced junk. This is not the manufacturers' doing.

It's a held subsidiary of Sears holdings technically but the brand is not only for use by Sears.

The original point I was trying to make is Craftsman or Sears however you'd like to look at it is not responsible when an completely seperate entity decides to move production. To go with the locking pliers example show me a current US manufactuer of ViseGrips. They are made in China all the copys are made in China. Grip On makes their own version in Spain which is what is sold by Snap On, Gray, and previously Channellock on a limited scale. Now could Sears contract with Grip On the for Grip On pliers maybe maybe not, would it be worth it for Sears and Grip On to do so maybe maybe not. And Sears has always contracted with ViseGrip brand for their in house locking pliers not Stanley, the only difference is the location of the factory has changed. I really do hope you come up with those current production US locking pliers I could use a new source.

 

[kythri]

Sears is wholly responsible for the COO of any Craftsman product, period.

The business entity that holds the Craftsman brand name is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sears, and is not autonomous at all. They don't make changes without Sears approving it.

No manufacturer makes changes to the Craftsman line without Sears approving it.

Contract manufacturers can't just up and change the contract terms without approval, hence the word "contract" in there.

Given that Danaher has US production facilities, SK/Ideal is back in business, and I'm sure there's other US tool production facilities, if Sears wanted (and was willing to pay for) US-manufactured tools instead of offshore-manufactured tools, they'd have them.

It's a ridiculous notion to believe that the manufacturer gets to change contracted production at their whim.

The original point I was trying to make is Craftsman or Sears however you'd like to look at it is not responsible when an completely seperate entity decides to move production.

No, Sears isn't responsible for this, but the manufacturer is responsible for upholding the contract terms. If the contract terms stipulate a specific design to be manufactured in the US, then the manufacturer does this, or breaches the contract. They may go to Sears and request an alteration of the contract, and may provide some incentive for Sears to do so - such as offering a price break on each unit if overseas production is approved - but Sears is within their power to say no. If the manufacturer continues to shutter the US production, then the contract gets terminated per terms of the contract, and Sears finds a new supplier.

Unless Sears has the worst contract lawyers in the business, there's simply no way possible that they're being forced to accept whatever the contract manufacturer decides to foist off on them instead of what they ordered. Nobody with half a brain would sign such a contract.

 

[LB-1911]

A source of made in USA Craftsman tools would be via the Craftsman Industrial Line.
Grainger & The Auto Body Tool Mart are two authorized distributors.

A listing of other distributors may be found via the Craftsman Club site- select industrial from the right side of the header-then find distributor.

 

[NWphotog]

I have to say Craftsman does have the clout to source any tool from the country they want. If COO moves to China it is because Sears/Craftsman wants it to.