my own vise predicament

[krause631]

ok folks this is my 1st real post here other than my intro post. the main reason i joined here was for the VISE talks and i have drooled over the main VISE thread that has like 24k posts lol but i have my own predicament here. I have been looking for a new bench vise for my new house garage and like everyone else not wanting a new store bought crappy one so have been all over Craigs looking for old wiltons. I need it to swivel side ways and have the hammering pad on the back and to have the pipe clamp below the jaws would be a plus. and the larger the better. so after months of looking last night i was surprised by my fiance for christmas with a 60lb present i quickly ripped the wrapping paper off the find she bought be a wilton 6" utility vise. i was ecstatic but in my head was thinking these arnt the best ones and she even said if i need to swap it i can. I always thought if you had a choice you wanted a bullet closed back type vise. Now ofcoarse those are wiltons and i know craftsman came out with one that was i heard a chinese wilton of some sort. so anyway for somewhere in the $300 dollar range im seeing if I should just keep what i have or swap it. here are my options


here is the wilton i just got






here is an AFF i saw at my local heavyduty truck parts store was like $270ish that i thought was nice and sturdy




and here is one of those craftsman vises that i think is a relabeled other brand vise






so pretty much should I keep my non bullet type wilton, or return it and find another bullet type wilton, get the AFF, get that craftsman chinese one but is 4 1/2 instead of 6" jaw

any help for this newb would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[INSP380]

I have an old 656 Wilton and that thing is a beast. Love it and would not change a thing!


Steve

 

[97fordsuper]

You can never have too many, right????? Keep watching craigslist. Now that you have one, they will pop up everywhere.

PS. Sounds like you have a good woman

 

[drivesitfar]

Krause: your gal is a keeper first off so don't lose her if you take back your Wilton vise. the Wilton vises you would want to buy are the Tradesman or the C series bullet vises. the one you now own is a decent vise, but for me i like old ones so your choice. i have a 6 inch Tradesman Wilton in the classifieds if you want to check it out to see what it is and if you are close enough for a local pickup i'd love to sell it to you.

i'm not here on GJ for the sales and was just offering up a few to the forum members before putting them up on Craigs or Ebay.

now if your gal worked hard to research and go to the effort of finding you that vise i might keep it and use it on my bench even though she said it was ok to swap it out. sort of like using gramps smaller vise because it was his if you know what i mean. sure there might be better deals to be had, but you need a vise now and a happy significant other is worth a lot more. now without any pressure you can find a big old second vise because we all need a couple.

my 2 cents

 

[Davefr]

I'd suggest one of two options:

1. Keep your new Chinese Wilton and start a gradual search for a good old "classic" US machinist vise. (like a Wilton C2 since it has pipe jaws) The search will likely take awhile so be very patient.

2. If you want a high quality vise right away then I'd recommend the Ridgid F series. They're made in Germany using forged steel and are excellent vises. Far superior to most other new vises.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VY07LQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Tritonus]

looking for old wiltons. I need it to swivel side ways and have the hammering pad on the back and to have the pipe clamp below the jaws would be a plus. and the larger the better.

Wilton + Big + swivel + anvil + pipe. That is quite a combination.

Wilton? - When I read the Vise thread, I came to the conclusion there are other brands than Wilton.

Pipe? - I am yet to read something positive about having a pipe clamp. Something tells me, a different tool would be more suitable for that job.

Anvil?- personally, I am not a big fan banging on a vise.

Swivel? - it is my opinion the reason why we see so many old vises without their swivel base is because they weren't up to the task. Why else would they be missing.

Big? - yes, I like that idea 4.5" to 6" for the garage.

Keep the vise your wife bought and don't get hung up on getting an old Wilton.

 

[wild cowboy]

I'd suggest one of two options:

1. Keep your new Chinese Wilton and start a gradual search for a good old "classic" US machinist vise. (like a Wilton C2 since it has pipe jaws) The search will likely take awhile so be very patient.

2. If you want a high quality vise right away then I'd recommend the Ridgid F series. They're made in Germany using forged steel and are excellent vises. Far superior to most other new vises.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VY07LQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

listen to this advice from Davefr!

if you are patient on craigslist, eventually you will find a $1500 vise for $150-$200

and FYI - really well made vises do not have the anvil type "hammering area" - if you need to hammer, buy an anvil.

 

[Rarified27]

The guys saying you can never have too many vises are right.

I own 6 and they all serve a specific purpose, but the two I use the most are a chinese Wilton just like yours and a 1745 I got about 3 years ago that is the best vise I've ever used.

The others are the first cheap-o one I ever had mounted to a B&D workmate, a Prentiss my grandfather brought home from a ballast tank plant, a 4" Irwin drill press vise, and a bonney clamp-on.

I also have a rockwell jawhorse that has been excellent for jobs away from home.

EDIT: The Ridgid's recommended above are outstanding as well.

 

[rsanter]

How much of a vise do you need?
Will the one you have not do what you want?
If it will then kiss her, install the vise, use the vise and move on.
If you find another vise for a deal then buy it too and turn it into a mobile vise for the receiver of your truck, or a small stand you can move around....or both

Bob

 

[retDAC]

Krause, does your red Wilton positively lock the swivel with 'gear teeth'?

If you ever envision pulling hard on something side to side, say a stuck fastener, you will find out why I ask. Discovered that many years ago with my old Japan Western Auto which lacks such. Sure it has 'two lockdowns' but they aren't always enough since they merely exert pressure/friction between flat surfaces.

The above Cman model does positively lock the swivel with 'gear teeth'.

What about the AFF?

 

[krause631]

Ok hitting on the vises makes sense. I think the most i used that platform for was my mini hammer wire crimper. But i will now get an anvil or like 'drivesitfar' suggested lil chunks of rail road track.

I dont know why but in my head it seams that vises arms that are cylindrical and sealed are of better quality. The AFF vise looked very sturdy and i didnt even check to see if it was closed back but might have been. But at that time i wasnt planning on buying a brand new one.

I will be prying side to side as my father had a chinese vise and often i recall getting mad and having to hammer the side adjuster to stay tight.

 

[Strouty]

Krause, this is one of the many areas GJ is really and truly awful. If you had received this vise prior to reading that thread, you would be pleased as can be. I would be honest with yourself, do you really need anything more than that? I started out with an import and I kept watching craigslist and I found some gems. The most I have paid was $350 and it was for a big vise on a big pedestal.

Be prepared, buying vises can be addicting.

Welcome to GJ as well.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Just use it.

She may have said you were welcome to take it back. But you probably shouldn't. Lol

 

[FMC1959]

I'd suggest one of two options:

1. Keep your new Chinese Wilton and start a gradual search for a good old "classic" US machinist vise. (like a Wilton C2 since it has pipe jaws) The search will likely take awhile so be very patient.

2. If you want a high quality vise right away then I'd recommend the Ridgid F series. They're made in Germany using forged steel and are excellent vises. Far superior to most other new vises.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VY07LQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have the Ridgid (5 1/2) and can vouch it is a great vise. If your heart is set on a Wilton, and you want a made in the US Wilton, consider a Tradesman
http://www.mile-x.com/wilton-1745-4-1-2-tradesman-vise-free-shipping/

They come in at a reasonable price and although not a C2, still great vises.

 

[davesnothere]

You keep the one she got you, and keep looking for a bullet. Duh.

 

[taumac]

Only one vise..... LOL. I said keep the one got and look for another. It doesn't have to be a Wilton. There are tons of good old American vise out there. Hit the flea market, swap meets, craigslist and be patient you'll find one.

 

[redmed]

Just a FYI I looked up that craftsman vise:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-4-1-2-inch-bench-vise/p-00951888000P
For me it showed up as $149.99 with free shipping.
Take the extra $150 and take your girl out for a real nice dinner or better yet use the bucks for a down payment on a nice ring for her. That girl is a keeper!

 

[2oolhound]

I'd be tempted to keep what you have for reasons stated above.

I have an asian 6" with the anvil pad that I've pounded on for 6-7 years. I have some old vises that as you can see from the hammer marks on them they have been heavily pounded on around the jaws and the top of the slide and they survived. I don't abuse my vises like that and only hammer on the anvil platform area for anything you would consider hard hitting. I told my blacksmith buddy I was looking for an anvil and he asked why? He told me bashing cold steel on an anvil was a good way to wreck it and that they were made to form hot steel. He recommended I get just a big heavy piece of steel if I want to really bash on cold steel.

My asian copy of a 6" Record is a swivel and I can relate to how poorly designed the swivel is and how hard it is to tighten adequately. I always slip a box end wrench over the little lock pins for leverage to tighten or loosen . My new old 6" Record swivel is a completely different story however. It tightens and releases with ease. The new asian record vises aren't built the same however so you may need to find an older swivel vise to get a good one. In my small cramped shop the swivel is very handy.

 

[krause631]

well a decision was made today. my buddy ended up having the same wilton non bullet the 656 i checked it out today to see if i should keep it, man good thing i did i would never have bought that myself if i saw it prior to purchase it was equivalent the a loose HF vise. not what i would expect from Wilton but i guess they had to keep up with some low end market and thats why this chinese non bullet type vise came out. so im going to just keep looking for a wilton bullet and might even get one off a member that i was talking to but in the time i did some research on that "Craftsman proffesional" chinese bullet and found a thread on here that was 8 pages long on how most people couldnt believe the quality for the price. which can be seen here
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142872

so i had a couple sets of crappy jackstands to return the sears so i was 99% doubtful that vise would be there just due to the fact i dont think their in production any more and people are even selling them on ebay due to their rareness. well i guess someone felt bad enough for me and boom they had 2 dusty boxes on the shelf so i bet you can guess they both came home with me. 1 for me and 1 for my friend. i still cant believe the quality in these things. but i am still in the market for a wilton bullet. thanks for all your input!

 

[rcjoy]

You can get a Wilton Tradesman 4 1/2 inch vise (the low-end bullet) for only $349 at Enco. Wait for the occasional 20% off with free shipping deal for an even better price.

It does not have pipe jaws, but its probably better to get a Ridgid bench yoke vise for that.

 

[ishiboo]

Not a lot of people have the balls to post their picture, let alone the one on their credit card along with their credit card number. Kudos!

 

[wild cowboy]

I do not understand this Wilton fascination, I have one of their old bullet vises, it is a good vise, but it certainly is no better than any equivalent Reed, Prentiss Bulldog, Parker, Morgan, Athol, etc. - it only looks a little cooler, but still doesn't justify the crazy-train price it would bring.

but here is what is REALLY CRAZY - Wilton has slapped their name for a long time on Chinese **** vises as well as shoddy recent USA production vises and people pay big money for this junk, it just defies all logic!

People, a Wilton built in China is basically a HF level of vise, no reason to get excited about it! or pay much for it! - good grief!

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

Lots of good advice.

I have beat the snot out of many vises, the only time I have caused damage to one was by using a 4' pipe to tighten it.

It's a vice, short of a major casting flaw or total abuse you will be hard pressed to wreck it.

You have a pretty awesome partner, keep that vise for that reason alone. Unless you are beating the living snot out of it there is little you need to worry about.

 

[retDAC]

... People, a Wilton built in China is basically a HF level of vise, no reason to get excited about it! or pay much for it! - good grief!

Your statement that all Chinese Wilton vises are the same quality as the typical big box store Chinese bench vises is in error. Some are to be sure. Perhaps most. The Wilton 4500/14500 5.5" Reversible Mechanic's Vise is most certainly a clear exception. I have one and it is not the typical cheap Chicom vise. The workmanship is far better, the jaws line up well, and the swivel positively locks with "gear teeth". Beat on mine a lot when I got it and it has held.

There are at least two other members with this same vise and another with the Masterforce version:

I have two of them. Good, decent vise for the money, not HF quality for sure.
Done everything I've needed them for.

I've had one of those in my shop for the last five or six years. I've not been able to break it in that time.

Don't remember what I paid, but it's done what I've asked of it.

Jason

I have this one and love it, http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...rce-5-1-2-doublejaw-vise/p-1655296-c-9135.htm. The jaws are reversable so it opens really big if you need it to. They also sell just a 6" one, http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...terforce-6-workshop-vise/p-1655332-c-9135.htm. The part I really like about these vises is they have "teeth" to help lock them in place and keep from rotating. My other cheap one just had to bolts to "lock" it in place by pressure and it sucked. This one you loosen the bolts and turn the vise to where you want and then tighten the bolts to hold it in the teeth. ...

While the Wilton 4500 can be had at considerable discount from it's MSRP, the Masterforce Doublejaw is still lower even at it's standard price with shipping. Regarding intangibles of the Wilton's higher price such as 'Lifetime Warranty' and perhaps a reliably higher level of QC obtained from the Chinese maker, I simply do not know.

Of course the US made Yost reversibles are better yet, but they cost more. Aside from the Yosts' greater capacity (6-1/2" and 8"), higher tensile strength of main castings (60k psi vs 30k psi), and better workmanship and other materiel, this particular Chinese Wilton will still perform very well at least for its price in comparison to its US counterparts.

Hmm, hasn't there been someone lately pointedly stating there are currently tools of lesser regard which at least for price serve quite well in comparison to their premium branded counterparts?

Could it be the same fellow who has asserted he has not specifically been shown wrong about anything, no matter how small, in all of his posts?

WC, I do agree with much of what you have said in this and other threads. Your overall assertion that, particularly for those starting out with little money, one does not need every tool to come from truck/premium brands; only certain tools, has been stated by others. Sberry seems chief in that regard unless you have usurped his throne.

However you have been shown to be mistaken at least this once. So much as one can be shown on an internet board anyway,

 

[krause631]

Not a lot of people have the balls to post their picture, let alone the one on their credit card along with their credit card number. Kudos!

Haha that picture was sent to me by a friend. Dont worry i already tried to use his card and got rejected

 

[1982fxr]

I do not understand this Wilton fascination, I have one of their old bullet vises, it is a good vise, but it certainly is no better than any equivalent Reed, Prentiss Bulldog, Parker, Morgan, Athol, etc. - it only looks a little cooler, but still doesn't justify the crazy-train price it would bring.

but here is what is REALLY CRAZY - Wilton has slapped their name for a long time on Chinese **** vises as well as shoddy recent USA production vises and people pay big money for this junk, it just defies all logic!

People, a Wilton built in China is basically a HF level of vise, no reason to get excited about it! or pay much for it! - good grief!

this, sir is COMPLETE ********. If you think, for instance, that the chinese mechanic vise is the same as an hf vise you are on fu%%ing crack man.

Wilton also sells a blue multi-purpose vise that looks similar to the blue hf one. They have nothing in common as far as quality. not much more i can add.

 

[Fretters]

I have been looking for a new bench vise for my new house garage and like everyone else not wanting a new store bought crappy one so have been all over Craigs looking for old wiltons. I need it to swivel side ways and have the hammering pad on the back and to have the pipe clamp below the jaws would be a plus. and the larger the better.

It'll be fine. I sure as hell wouldn't return or change that when she's bought it for you. Even the best of vices can be destroyed with enough effort, and the worst of vices can also perform admirably if used within its bounds. Treat it like ****, and you run the risk of nothng being good enough.

Swivel: Rarely is that a 'need'. Preference or want, fine, but rarely if ever is it a necessity. If you need good clearance, mount a fixed vice appropriately.

Anvil: Again, not a necessity. Any iron/steel surface is technically a punching, cutting or beating surface. You can use an old piece of steel plate screwed or bolted to the bench to achieve that end. Anything can be made into a usable or makeshift hammering surface.

Pipe jaws: Buy a pipe vice if that's a must have. Rarely will you come across a piece of round in general usage which you cannot hold in standard flat jaw inserts though. I've threaded no end of rod, (and that inflicts quite a lot of rotational force on a rod), upto around 1/2" or so, using nothing more than the standard flat inserts coupled with a slip or two of copper sheet for extra grip if needed, even in something as small as a 3" vice, and using nothing more than available hand pressure on the standard handle for tightening.

That vice you've shown, I'd use without a second thought, same as I would even the crappiest of import gear. End of the day, a vice serves one purpose, and it truly would need to be of dire quality not to be able to serve that purpose reasonably. Whether it be cheap or top quality, a vice is only as able as the person using it. We've likely all seen top notch vices which have literally been destroyed by someone pushing them beyond their limits, so quality is by no means the only measure of a vices usability.


p.s: I would also personally suggest that you don't exclude other options just for the sake of getting your hands on an old bullet vice. Whether it be a York or Wilton, their reknown does outweigh the reality, IMHO. There are far more solidly constructed pieces of old iron out there. The York and Wilton do have novelty and looks, but pure and simple pound for pound of metal poured into them, you'll find other makes and style of similar vintage likely far outweigh the Wilton's in pure meatiness. That's not an unfounded opinion, btw. I have a small York here, (and another one when I eventually get around to picking it up), and I do like the thing, but I must admit that the looks are their main point. Once you start checking the actual design etc., they could have been made a lot more stout than they are with little extra effort or metal required to achieve that end.

 

[Diesel4Life]

I have one of those blue Wilton #69999 5-in multi purpose vise China-made, that I and others have beat the heck out of over the last 9+ years. And although I did break it down a few years ago to replace the allen head bolts that sheared off of the replaceable jaws and clean it up and re-grease it.

It is still 100% in service. I bought it new for around $60.00, I wanted to save my other prized vise's from abuse. It's always been mounted to a welding table, and continues to receive hard use.