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My RF30 mill to CNC conversion - the cheap way

gte718p

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The shear hog comment made me remember. It is lake shore carbide that NYCNC used to pimp.

http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/standardlengthcornerrad.aspx

I've actually been really happy with them. I've broken a few of the 1/8 but the 1/2 have been indestructible. They also do a good job clearing chips and the coating does a decent job keeping AL from gumming up on them. WD-40 and a simi aggressive cut still helps.
 
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stioc

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I can't stress enough to get good tooling. All Industrial is fine, just because I already know those guys, they are in HB, but otherwise, I'd stay away from ebay for tooling unless you know what you are buying.

These guys have excellent prices on HTC end mills (I suggest 3 flute for aluminum, especially with limited RPM).

https://www.the-carbide-end-mill-store.com/

https://www.the-carbide-end-mill-st...d-length-htc-120-3375-3fl-gp-30-uncoated.html
Yeah, I've heard good stuff about All Industrial and the others I usually look at the comments and how many of the same items they've previously sold to get a general idea but yeah it can be a total **** shoot unless I know the seller and the specific product from others' recommendations. I'll check out the HTC stuff from the seller you listed, thanks!

The shear hog comment made me remember. It is lake shore carbide that NYCNC used to pimp.

http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/standardlengthcornerrad.aspx

I've actually been really happy with them. I've broken a few of the 1/8 but the 1/2 have been indestructible. They also do a good job clearing chips and the coating does a decent job keeping AL from gumming up on them. WD-40 and a simi aggressive cut still helps.

Ah! yeah I've heard of those guys too. I might have even ordered stuff from them before. Thanks for the link.

What about 2-flute cutters for Alum? that's what I was using on my little CNC router so the little bits could evacuate the chips and not load up and that wasn't even alum, just wood/mdf/HDPE etc.
 

kkroger

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Make sure not to get too much tool for your machine... Most manufacturers publish recommended chipload data for their tooling too, this type machine doesn't have the grunt for most of it, I run about 20 IPM feed and a .020 cut depth for aluminum with a 3 Flute Quarter inch end mill, have to pull back to 10IPM for a .040 cut... bigger mills you just can't and I am running 2 hp on the spindle Motor, That 1/4" mill has a recommended speed of 10k RPM and I'd have to look up the chipload. I cant get anywhere close to that even overdriving the motor with the VFD.
 
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stioc

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Yeah, that's precisely what I meant with my Shear Hog example...great tool but...kinda like buying jet octane fuel for your Pinto lol
 
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stioc

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Had about an hr to play in the garage last night so decided to try a left hand lathe carbide bit in one of the cheap flycutters I got a while back.

I milled down the lathe tool bit shank from 3/8" to 5/16" installed it with more rake so the cutting happens at the edge of the carbide. I only had time to do one test run, I pulled some numbers out of thin air and hit go - so this was a 10 thou cut at 10 ipm with the spindle running at 1800rpm.

Here's a short video of it in action:
https://streamable.com/s/jtot9/eosapt

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The finish came out really well IMO :dunno:
 
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stioc

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I finally finished and hung the address plate last night:

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Also, more exciting, to me anyway was playing with the multiple WCS offsets both in Fusion and LinuxCNC and then testing it out to make qty 2 of the same part. It worked great!

That gave me a segway and confidence to also try multiple operations (e.g. facing, roughing, drilling all in one gcode file but requiring different tools). Of course, this works better with ATS but even with manual tool changes this is pretty cool! I mostly cut air but I think I got it, I just need to complete my TTS conversion to take advantage of it.

Of course, it seems, no update is complete without also mentioning more tooling I ordered lol So this time it was 5 TTS tool holders, ER20 collets (I'll need more of these) and a digital height gauge. My 'want' list is still a mile long...
 
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stioc

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A few things showed up this week. Time to get organized this weekend! I'll need to buy or make an arbor for the 22mm dia gear cutters. Nevermind the fact that I ordered the wrong DP (16 vs 22) cutters for the project I had in mind. The project was making a 4TPI change gear for my lathe to cut its own spindle threads, just because :dunno:

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I'm also thinking of making a pallet system that fits in the vise. The reason I think I want it in the vise is so I can quickly go from the pallet to the vise without tramming the vise or moving the head. Attached is a quick draft of the sub plate, the bottom milled-out sections are where the vise jaws will grab the plate. The holes are 1" apart and will be for 1/4-20 tap. Since my spindle isn't controlled by LinuxCNC I can only drill but not tap under CNC (no reverse). I'll have to do the tapping by hand but that's not a huge deal, I've gotten decent at power-tapping with the hand drill. Any input/feedback/experience is welcome!

39447683610_d681efb07a.jpg
 
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kkroger

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Tramming the vise? just make thick alu jaws and true them to the axis as needed... :D
 
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stioc

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You mean make longer alu jaws? I think for my usage which is generally smaller parts and most that can be held in a vise I might just make my sub-plate be held in the vise. Less manual work in the long run. Additionally I might even add a round stock to the bottom of the sub-plate on one end that will allow it to move like a sine vise in the vise jaws. Too many ideas.
 

kkroger

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I'd just make a piece just like what you have there, without the holes, clamp it in the vise and face it off, clean it off, secure your job to it with superglue, let that dry then mill away... works great!
 
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stioc

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Ah ok, I've used that method (actually double sided tape) with success on the little CNC router but was planning to use Mitee Bite eccenteric bolts for work holding on the fixture sub-plate. I'll give it some more thinking. Thanks!
 
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stioc

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The surface plate just showed up woohoo! I thought it was a pretty good deal and big enough for my purposes (9x12x2 class B) for around $45 shipped.

Now I have everything to start loading the TTS tool holders with tools and then measuring and entering the Z offsets in LinuxCNC.

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stioc

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It was a good weekend. I'm getting better at F360, I used to get very frustrated with it, I can now do the basic stuff pretty quickly from CAD to CAM so that's encouraging. I loaded my 5 most used tools into the TTS collet chucks created a tool library in F360 as well as in LinuxCNC.

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This height gauge had about 8thou error in repeatability due to a wobbly base, after sanding it I got it down to 1.5thou.
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I then realized I needed a collet rack. No worries, let's design it in F360 real quick and let's test the tool changes for the first time on a real part so this will be a single gcode file with different operations and different tools. I also want the endmill to plunge where the center drill drilled the holes. So far so good.

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Now, let's go cut it...well, except I don't have any suitable stock material. Wait, I have this set of 1/8" aluminum toe alignment-setting plates left over from my racing days back in the early 2000s...time to sacrifice, err recycle them. So I rough cut one with the plasma. Mounted it on a 1/4" plywood spoil board (I really need a better spoil board), said a prayer or two and hit the go button :bowdown:

The machine asked for Tool 4, the center drill, popped it in, it set the correct offsets and made perfect starting holes. It then moved back up to z0 and asked for the next tool (the roughing end mill), popped it in and hit ok...it read the correct offsets and started plunging. Pretty quickly though I realized something was wrong because it plunged hard and black dust came out of the hole. Oh ****, that's the mill table it's roughing out! ****!!! I hit the Esc key, manually jogged the z axis up...yep, I definitely milled my mill! :eek: But how? wrong tool offset? nope. Ah, what a dummy! I input -0.7" in for stock bottom in CAM instead of -0.07...that's going to leave a mark!

40631178934_1332b3c88c.jpg


After that it was all good, actually just about perfect how it all worked out. The engraving toolpath however, left me a little unhappy because it was trying to draw these tiny hair-lines that don't show up in the design, it was mostly cutting air (almost like trying to engrave a 3D part) so it was wasting time. I'll have to look into it a bit more or try to find a better way to engrave. Which btw I used a 1/16th carbide ball endmill for (running at 4 ipm at .005" DOC). Engraving toolpath did require that I classify it as a chamfer bit (i used 60deg so it doesn't try to plunge into the valleys) or else it wouldn't generate the toolpath. I really need to find single line text fonts for these simple engraving needs.

40631179004_194a91fd83.jpg


I spent pretty much all day in the garage cutting out this part, something i could've ordered for $20 on ebay I'm sure with a single mouse click but it was satisfying to see it come out as I'd envisioned it.

40631179134_91bdf15d78_c.jpg
 
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stioc

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Haha, yeah battle scars certainly add character. I'll probably jbweld over the roughed out area so the area doesn't continue to chip from normal use over time. It's only about 3/4 wide and about .25" deep.
 
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stioc

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Made the fixture plate. As usual ran into a couple of issues but managed to overcome them. This was a few different operations.

Millng: I started with milling the shoulders. Unfortunately this is where I ran into the biggest issue- unbeknownst to me the TTS collet holder worked itself down out of the TTS R8 adapter, likely because of my heavy cut (.25" DOC using a .25" roughing mill). This made the shoulders uneven/crooked :( So once I tightened it well I had to take several passes to get the shoulders to be flat again.

40902548794_7a0cfdd544_z.jpg


Drilling: I was a little worried about the feed rate (plunge rate I guess) but 7ipm worked great using chip breaking and pecking at .4". Except I did this on top of a piece of plywood and despite the alum plate being 3/4" thick it bowed in places because when I flipped the plate over the drill bit had only broken through a couple of the rows.

Drilling after spot drilling:
40721758555_4ebe5560fd_z.jpg


Top side of the fixture plate with only two rows of actual holes :dunno:
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Since I'd already lost my 0,0 on the x/y I decided to drill from the other side (top side). Oh and I lost my 0,0 because the plate is almost as long as my x-axis travel (14") so I had to fudge it a little to get started.

Honestly I had to think about how to do this (drilling from the other side and meeting the hole half way). Now I'd never used the wiggler center finder before, nor did I really know what it was for until I had the eureka moment. So as shown in the pic above I found the center of a specific hole, then used g91 (relative move) backward to 0,0 (e.g. g91 g0 x-1.45 y-1.134) then touched off to reset G54. Now I'm sure everyone probably knows or uses this trick :dunno: but I felt like a genius that it actually worked :thumbup:

Tapping 30+ holes: I don't have a tapping head nor is my spindle cnc controlled so again using a little bit of thinking I came up with a hybrid solution. I'll use the CNC to guide me to each hole and then I'll use the spring loaded tap guide to help me thread the first 4 or 5 turns. After that I'll power tap using my hand drill. So I took the drilling g-code and removed all the z axis stuff and after every x,y move I added m6 t1 and m6 t2 (alternating it) so that after each move the machine waited for me to "change the tool" but in reality it just paused the motion so I could hand tap the first 4 or 5 turns then hit continue and do the same thing for all the rest of the holes.

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Worked like a charm! :thumbup:

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All in all I enjoyed building it and with each bump along the way I feel like I'm starting to find ways around the challenges :)
 
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stioc

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Tried my hand at powder coating (PC) and engraving with a spring loaded diamond tipped engraver. The engraver worked great but the PC chipped along the engravings creating the jagged look. I guess I didn't do the PC right even though the finish looked good. I guess the reason might be adhesion since I simply wiped the part down with alcohol after flycutting the top smooth and then PC'ing it. I should've sanded it to give it some tooth to adhere to.

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kkroger

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I use Onsrud 60 degree zero point carbide engraving cutters works great, I'll post an example pic later... Wait the hitch plug was engraved with a 45 degree zero point Chamfer tool...
 
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stioc

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Cool, thanks, I'll check those out too. I really like this engraver actually (I saw it in NYCCNC videos) because I don't have to run the spindle and I can make it go pretty much as fast as the motors can go and lastly since it's spring loaded doing engraving work on convex/concave surfaces shouldn't be a problem either. The logo's machine time was 13 mins. I just need to work on the technique and powder coating. Oh speaking of your hitch example how do you color fill the engravings different colors?
 
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kazlx

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That looks like a drag engraver, definitely don't want to use that on a coating. I use 2L Inc, single flutes and they work awesome. Super cheap.

Spring loaded is fine, but you're not going to want to drag on a coating, since it will chip like that.

http://www.2linc.com/

I've been using the 2L at 6000rpm at 0.005 deep and works great.

Through anodize.

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stioc

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Thanks! I've always loved the anodized looks- it's just not as quick or simple as point and shoot like paint.
 

kazlx

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You'd be surprised. It's not that hard. I pay to get it done just because of volume, but my buddy has a basic setup and it's pretty damn easy on a smaller scale.
 
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stioc

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Cool, one of these days I'll try my hands at it. Ran into an issue last night where my Ferrari logo work never got saved in F360 and they pushed some F360 updates down. No big deal. I go to import the logo and generate the gcode file again except half way through LinuxCNC gives up saying joint following error. Turns out I have to tweak the .ini file and change some parameters. However, it's too much a coincidence that the same logo is having problems after the F360 update that was working just fine previously.

Anyways...just venting as I wasted 2hrs last night trying to figure out if I burnt up a driver or something but even running the code without the machine controller on gives me the same problem. Ran the old gcode file (which I still had) and it ran fine. Weird.
 

kkroger

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This was engraved with an Onsrud 60 Degree zero point through powder coat then blackened with a conversion chemistry in 3003H14 aluminum. Probably 10k RPM on the router but I've done some with the Mill on Aluminum same powder and design I just don't have a photo of it. These were actually done using the Router on the Plasma Table.
The large numbers are 1/4" high and .018 deep.

 
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stioc

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Cool, what is it? At first glance I was going to say it looks like a dial from the rotary phones...yeah I'm dating myself.
 

kkroger

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Cool, what is it? At first glance I was going to say it looks like a dial from the rotary phones...yeah I'm dating myself.

Its a dowhadayafuckum

Actually it is a "Chainclip" for American football, used on by the chain crew and the head linesman, to mark the ball position on the chains it is placed at the nearest yardline on the chains, then they can get repositioned easily in the event that the chain crew gets plowed down on the field... I never knew the things existed until someone brought me one and asked if I could make them, .090 Aluminum, Blanked out on the plasma then de-burred and powder coated. then engraved 9 at a time on the same plasma table...

Then packed up... tossed in a box and picked up by the EU... who sold them for a while, only made a couple hundred... evidently all the other commercial variants are plastic and crappy...

The one that was brought to me looked like it had been chewed out by a beaver and then holes randomly drilled and the numbers just slammed into it with stamps... I'll see if I can dig up the pic I took of it back then... First "Product" made with my plasma table...

 
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stioc

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Haha...thanks for the info, yeah I didn't know such thing existed either.
 

kkroger

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A Later Variant with a simplified font and engraved shallower... still with the same Chemical Blackening.

 

gte718p

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Cool, one of these days I'll try my hands at it. Ran into an issue last night where my Ferrari logo work never got saved in F360 and they pushed some F360 updates down. No big deal. I go to import the logo and generate the gcode file again except half way through LinuxCNC gives up saying joint following error. Turns out I have to tweak the .ini file and change some parameters. However, it's too much a coincidence that the same logo is having problems after the F360 update that was working just fine previously.

Anyways...just venting as I wasted 2hrs last night trying to figure out if I burnt up a driver or something but even running the code without the machine controller on gives me the same problem. Ran the old gcode file (which I still had) and it ran fine. Weird.

That is going to happen occasionally unfortunately. Both LinuxCNC and F360 are living programs being developed by completely different teams. Sometimes they stay in since sometimes they evolve away from each other. Occasionally a change in Fusion to adapt to the latest LinuxCNC change causes issues with older versions. It is one of the thing I don't like about Fusion, you can't find a stable place and stay there. I'm betting they just got around to tweaking the EMC post processor after the Jan release of V12.

For engraving I still recommend checking out inkscape and gcodetools plug in.
 

kkroger

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Just use Draftsight for engraving... the marriage between Fusion 360 and Linux CNC is meaningless, the post processor is where the issue is and Autodesk doesn't write that someone else does... I've had countless issues off and on with Flashcut Post processor for Fusion 360 one of these days I'll have to write my own.
 
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stioc

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Good info guys! Glad to hear it's not just me lol I had to bump my MAX_STEPGEN to twice that of MAX_ACCELERATION in the LinuxCNC ini file and that fixed the issue.

Yeah I'll try those other software as I'm just now starting to become comfortable with F360 which was one of my goals. The next one is Inkscape but the gecodetools plugin seemed very non-intuitive when I last looked at it but as with most things repetition makes things easier.
 
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stioc

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@Brunow, thanks.

A short speeder wrench for the vise...but really just another excuse to use the mill and try designing/making something I haven't before.

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Almost broke my thumb yesterday, forgot the wrench on the drawbar (I was always afraid of that) and turned the motor on then stupidly/instinctively tried to grab the wrench instead of turning off the motor. Woke up with a blue thumb (I was never much of a green thumb anyway) - could've been worse! I post this as a PSA.
 
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stioc

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Chip containment devices :p 16ga sheet metal and cheap Home Depot acrylic sheet with magnets...next time it'll be polycarbonate because acrylic shatters too easily if you drop it.

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stioc

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I got remote access to my LinuxCNC box working using MobaXterm on my Windows 10 desktop, you need to have Putty installed too which MobaXterm uses for X11 over SSH. Works great!

Now if I can just teach the dog to go chuck up the stock I can run and monitor the mill from my desk inside the house (or even from work) :D

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stioc

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Decided to build a toolholder for the toolpost grinder (a flex shaft in my case). Also tried out 2D adaptive toolpath for the first time. I think it'll work better if you give it the actual dimensions of the stock. In my case since the stock was too big for the part it ended up doing slots and in a very aggressive manner. Actually broke my 1/4" rougher endmill and shook the whole top of the mill in doing so. The feeds and speeds weren't that bad either (.15" DOC and 8in/min, I've used these nos before several times for contour and it worked fine). Anyway, as I said the problem I think was because it plunged into the stock hard whereas if it ramps in from the edge it's not as jarring.

The model:
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First attempt using the Mitee Bites (first time) but the stock came loose on the final pass:
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Second attempt using the vise, end mill borke on the last pass, same spot as the above problem:
41202546164_db7892d705.jpg


Third time was the charm:
41202545324_0f70b245cd.jpg


Such a simple part but rookie mistakes made it an all day project. In the end though it works great!
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