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My Wolverine Floor

AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

We're in contact with Haughy, schedules didn't mesh, we checked out some local firms, and decided we want our best installer on the job. He's located in North Carolina. over 500 miles away, and is pretty busy.

Haughy understands that these things can take time, and doesn't seem to have a problem with this schedule, so I really don't know why you do.
 
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porschedude996TT

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Having a sponsor here on the GJ must be a double edged sword. Good for sales, but one problem sure causes a whole bunch on potential negative exposure. AG and Wolverine must have lost some sleep over this one. It is not easy to say to your customer that "You F#$%ed Up in the Mixing Process" and try to help him, keep the whole business in the black and still appear to be a good guy to the customer and those here on the GJ.

I hope that Haugy gets to a fair and equitable position on his floor and can close the chapter on this.

I believe that AG and Wolverine have gone above and beyond the call to duty on this one.
 

PaulR

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I've been reading this (flooring section)forum every day for 4 months now, and I'm also the first to attest AG is #1 at hawking their products here. I will also attest it gets annoying to read most times. But it also plain to see Wolverine and AG have done just about everything they can for Haugy short of sending him free beer and hookers. Cripes even that guy that hates AG a while back in this thread came out and said "sure looks like a mixing problem, user error". It's a complicated process, sh!t happens. I'm really not sure what more these people still complaining about Wolverine want them to do about it.

just my .02
 

GarageEnvy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Ever wonder why some manufacturers don't enter the DIY market or offer a limited number of products to DIYers? This thread should put those questions to rest. And for the record this is not directed at the OP who apparently never asked for anything out of the deal and was just reporting his experience.
 

Ryan

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I deleted a few posts from this thread.

Gentlemen, we love having honest reviews and conversations about products on The Garage Journal. However, I get a bit queazy when it stoops down to name calling and accusations. I'm not gonna host that stuff... So, if you want to get all fired up at someone for any reason, please use a different medium to do so.

........

As for this thread... Man... What a mess... For both parties. I find myself really worried for everyone involved. On one hand, you have the customer who has to look at this mess in his shop every single day knowing he has a good deal of money wrapped up in it. That's got to be incredibly painful.

On the other hand, you have a small business that is doing their best to make it right... Even if (and this is a strong possibility) those problems were through no fault of their own. You know this thread is stressing those players out... And I feel for them. I really do.

At the end of the day though, I have faith in people. Maybe it's a fault.... But I honestly think both parties have each other in mind. I really hope this deal works out. So much so, in fact, that I am putting my money where my mouth is.

Take in mind that I don't know a soul involved with this project. I don't know the customer and I don't know anyone at Wolverine or AG. In any case, if each party sends me a private message when this mess is over and tells me that they are satisfied, I will do the following:

1. Give a free one month sponsorship to Alpha Garage

2. Send $250 to haugy

Again, both parties have to be happy. I know, it's not much... But it's something and all I can afford at the moment. And it makes me feel better... pulling for both sides and all.
 

roger55

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow Ryan! That was very well said and shows the kind of individual you are. What a classy thing to do.
Makes me very happy to be a member here. We are in good hands.
 

dawg

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I gotta tell ya you didnt wait long enough before the first step!
6 to 8 months on a new floor minumum.
(also did you do a moisture test?)
I know this cuz i been there with a newly poured floor.
concrete will take up to 8 months to cure properly.
Depending on the composition.
looks like the moisture was still leaching out of the concrete in those pics.
 

green.bubbly

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I must commend AG for the excellent handling of this situation. Part of being a business is expecting that a few of your customers will make mistakes. How you handle these customers defines who your company is.

The way they investigated if it was a product failure was very professionally done. They communicate well and never seemed to run for the customer.

A+
 
OP
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Just a quick comment as I haven't been looking in here lately. What AlphaGarage has stated about scheduling is true. Hey, it happens. But we are still moving forward, and both Wolverine and Alpha have been in contact with me through that time.


Ryan, thanks for cleaning up the mess. I didn't see the comments, but like you, I don't want to turn this into some name calling mess. And while I appreciate the offer I cannot let you do that for me. I am not deserving of it. At the end of the day I just wanted a great floor, and we're heading in that direction. Nothing more, nothing less. It's very generous of you, but I just wouldn't feel right. If you ever come to Nashville, we can grab a beer instead.
 

belvedere

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow Ryan! That was very well said and shows the kind of individual you are. What a classy thing to do.
Makes me very happy to be a member here. We are in good hands.

+1, very generous offer.
 

Ryan

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Just a quick comment as I haven't been looking in here lately. What AlphaGarage has stated about scheduling is true. Hey, it happens. But we are still moving forward, and both Wolverine and Alpha have been in contact with me through that time.


Ryan, thanks for cleaning up the mess. I didn't see the comments, but like you, I don't want to turn this into some name calling mess. And while I appreciate the offer I cannot let you do that for me. I am not deserving of it. At the end of the day I just wanted a great floor, and we're heading in that direction. Nothing more, nothing less. It's very generous of you, but I just wouldn't feel right. If you ever come to Nashville, we can grab a beer instead.

Haugy, it's not a notion of charity. Don't think of it that way. Instead, it's a gesture of thanks for the way you have/can handle this. Same for AG... I get value out of threads like this and I believe AG does as well. If this works out for the best, it is a good example of exceptional customer service.

More than anything, I just really want this deal to work out.
 

slickgt1

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow Ryan. That is very generous of you. I got to say you are the man.
 

gloveman132

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There are many lessons here

This is a disaster from a marketing point of view.

Being right or wrong is irrelevant, AG should have put this matter to bed months ago. AG will now pay the price because this comes up when you Google their product and creates substantial doubt which equals fewer sales.

Many years ago the head of research for my company told me "We don't want to just be right, we want to make our clients money".

Way too much effort went into figuring out what went wrong. AG should have privately fixed the problem with the client and figured out what went wrong later.

Very sad in my opinion.
 

tc2000

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Months? I might be wrong but I think it's closer to two. So I'd beg to define it as "weeks." :)

Message boards are a treacherous place to market one's products, especially products that are possibly best left for the professional installer only. I researched and researched and still made a couple mistakes that I chalk up to being on the cutting edge and saving big bucks by doing it myself.

Competitive sharks swimming in the water...

Hopefully, like taking Web reviews with a grain of salt, smart buyers are...well, smart.
 
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tcianci

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Haugy, it's not a notion of charity. Don't think of it that way. Instead, it's a gesture of thanks for the way you have/can handle this. Same for AG... I get value out of threads like this and I believe AG does as well. If this works out for the best, it is a good example of exceptional customer service.

More than anything, I just really want this deal to work out.

Haugy, Fred, Ryan...All you guys derseve a star on your foreheads for the way you have handled a stressful, expensive and time consuming episode.
 
OP
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

UPDATE

Sorry guys, I have been out of town.

First off, I would like to let everyone know that Fred, and Wolverine have been in contact with me since this happened. I know that Wolverine themselves put in a lot of time looking into what happened, and did numerous in house tests to asertain the problem. I appreciate all the well wishes, and thoughts. Thanks, that's why I love this forum.

Second off, the delay in anything being done was due to scheduling issues. I was working on things in the shop that had to be finished before anything else could be done. I understood I was not their only client, and they were doing their best to get with me. So in regards to the timeline, things were handled as quickly as they could be. I wasn't bothered by it, and understood that I'm not their only customer.

I wanted people understand that while it seemed dormant here, lots of things were going on behind the scenes.


But it was all worth it. I am pleased to say I now have the floor I was hoping for when all this started. I don't have pictures yet, as I leave when it's dark, and get home when it's dark. And waiting on an electrical inspection I have no lights in the shop. But I will post pics soon.

Fred, and Eric of Wolverine made sure that the floor was done properly this time and with the best of care. I couldn't be more pleased. Truely. It's great to walk in, and see that beautiful floor. I moved one or two of my toys into the shop, and they look fantastic sitting on that floor.

In my opinion AlphaGarage and Wolverine were very understanding and helpful. They went WAY above and beyond this time. Those in chosing to make a decision, please read this thread with an open mind. A good resolution isn't always the fastest one, but a company that is looking to get there is one I want to deal with everytime.


Cliff notes:
AlphaGarage and Wolverine really are stand up gentlemen, and I fully endorse their product, and the men that are representing them.
 

kmacht

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Glad to hear you finally got the floor you wanted. Could you clear two things up for us though. 1) Do you believe that it was a mixing problem that caused the issue? You posted early on that you followed the directions exactly and thoroughly mixed the materials. If you think it was a mixing issue then what would you suggest to keep this from happening to other people. If you don't believe it was a mixing problem then what do you think caused it? We have heard Wolverines side of it but it would be nice to hear yours. Second, could you tell us if you had to pay to have the floor re-done yourself or did Wolverine step up and offer to help with the cost of the re-do?

Keith
 

Hammerdown

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Re: There are many lessons here

This is a disaster from a marketing point of view.

Way too much effort went into figuring out what went wrong. AG should have privately fixed the problem with the client and figured out what went wrong later.QUOTE]
I'd say you have to figure out what went wrong before you fix it, otherwise you may encounter the same problem again. If it was something simple like not mixing the product correctly, a re-application would be fine, but if there were a chemical reaction between the Wolverine system and perhaps a previous sealer or hardener in the concrete it would be wasting time and money to just fix it. The reason for the failure must be determined before a repair or recoat can be done with a resonable chance of success. Wolverine wants their system to perform as advertised, and making sure the substrate is properly prepared and the products properly applied will ensure this.
Glad to see that all is well now!:bounce:
 

Ryan

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And I would say it is a shining example of customer service. The customer is now happy... and that is the end result everyone wanted.
 
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Climber

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I just went through all post. WOW.
Haugy, fill bad for your disappointment and wasted time. Glad to hear about every think comes to be fine.
Fred, good job!:thumbup: Way to handle problems. Just timing could be better.

As to cause of this mass (to my opinion):
Haugy is very detail person. I don't think he would skip and screw up mixing proses. But he mention about drying with back pack blower. These engines using mix of gas and oil (1-to-50). The oil NEVER burned inside in engine. You can see it if you run any 2-cycle motor over wet asphalt. Especially effect would be multiplied by factors such as:
1) using synthetic oil.
2) use low octane or/and old fuel (2 weeks or more) will make engine run cooler and make more oil not to be burned rather exit through exhaust.

Fred, you may consider to include into you manual possible contamination sources like heater, AC, duct, engines (especially 2-cycle)
If your manual does not say "Caution! Customer, you can not do this-and-this" , it meant customer will do it.

Again, glad to hear every think is fine. :thumbup:
:beer:
 

Hammerdown

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I just went through all post. WOW.
Haugy, fill bad for your disappointment and wasted time. Glad to hear about every think comes to be fine.
Fred, good job!:thumbup: Way to handle problems. Just timing could be better.

As to cause of this mass (to my opinion):
Haugy is very detail person. I don't think he would skip and screw up mixing proses. But he mention about drying with back pack blower. These engines using mix of gas and oil (1-to-50). The oil NEVER burned inside in engine. You can see it if you run any 2-cycle motor over wet asphalt. Especially effect would be multiplied by factors such as:
1) using synthetic oil.
2) use low octane or/and old fuel (2 weeks or more) will make engine run cooler and make more oil not to be burned rather exit through exhaust.

Fred, you may consider to include into you manual possible contamination sources like heater, AC, duct, engines (especially 2-cycle)
If your manual does not say "Caution! Customer, you can not do this-and-this" , it meant customer will do it.

Again, glad to hear every think is fine. :thumbup:
:beer:


There are so many things that the DIY'er can do wrong it is impossible to put every scenario in the instruction manuals of a self installed product to caution or warn people. The manuals are written to exact specifications and should be followed in detail. If it says do an acid wash of such and such dilution, do it in that dilution only. Don't think that if it says "Dilute 4 parts water to 1 part acid" that by doing it in a 2 to 1 it will be twice as good, it won't! :wtf: If manufacturers put in everything that could go wrong, people would be scared away from most projects. This is why a DIY project can range from $100 for an off the shelf product to $1000's for a professional grade system sold as a DIY project. These same systems could cost $3-$12 per square foot professionally installed, so the consumer assumes some of the risk :mad: when he saves money. :)
Just my opinion, and I think that the resolution suited the customer well. Cheers!
 

tc2000

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The DIY videos that demonstrate a blower to pop bubbles were electric blowers. I had my stinky oil/gas backpack on standby but didn't need it. Interesting theory.

I suppose even the type of spike used in a DIY spiked shoe might make a difference at a micro level. :)
 

Hammerdown

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Well stated Hammer.

Thanks. Unfortunately epoxy coatings are not like assembling a bike or cabinet, there is a chemical reaction that takes place. And as any Al-Queda underwear bomber can tell you, things don't always turn out as planned!:shocking: I've learned about epoxies over the years in the home improvement trades, and sometimes my lessons were painful and costly! The more you work with it the more you know. :thumbup:
 

PT Doc

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I don't know why this happened, I used a low priced epoxy and all went well.

I was in business for 40 years and I believe in fixing the problem, not the blame.
I think the company would've been much smarter to have given you a full refund as a customer satisfation policy even if it was their opinion that the problems were your fault....who knows. Over time the bad publicity will cost much more than the refund.

Sometimes a businessman must bite the bullit and be pragmatic.

Well put. Probably these small business owners don't have the foresight to see it this way but they will learn that you have to eat it sometimes to make things right.

Sorry for your problems. I would be pissed.
 

Hammerdown

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Well put. Probably these small business owners don't have the foresight to see it this way but they will learn that you have to eat it sometimes to make things right.

Sorry for your problems. I would be pissed.


I think that the company should make it right, and I believe this is the case here. I also think that before things can be made right, you have to know why things went wrong so that the problem can be corrected, not compounded.
 

kmacht

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Just so it is clear, neither Wolverine or Haughy ever said who paid to correct the problem. I asked earlier but never got an answer. We know that Wolverine spent a lot of time investigating the problem but we do not know that they offered to do anything other then schedule an appointment with one of their installers to do it over a second time. For all that we know, Haughy had to pay for the materials and labor a second time to get the floor he wanted. I sure hope that isn't the case but I wouldn't be giving credit to Wolverine for stepping up and making it right unless you really know that is what happened.

Keith
 

AlphaGarage

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Just so it is clear, Haughy's summation is...

In my opinion AlphaGarage and Wolverine were very understanding and helpful. They went WAY above and beyond this time. Those in chosing to make a decision, please read this thread with an open mind. A good resolution isn't always the fastest one, but a company that is looking to get there is one I want to deal with everytime.


Cliff notes:
AlphaGarage and Wolverine really are stand up gentlemen, and I fully endorse their product, and the men that are representing them.

He seems extremely pleased, we're certainly happy to have yet another satisfied customer who sings our praises, not much else needs to be said.
 
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Hammerdown

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

UPDATE


But it was all worth it. I am pleased to say I now have the floor I was hoping for when all this started.

In my opinion AlphaGarage and Wolverine were very understanding and helpful. They went WAY above and beyond this time. Those in chosing to make a decision, please read this thread with an open mind. A good resolution isn't always the fastest one, but a company that is looking to get there is one I want to deal with everytime.


Cliff notes:
AlphaGarage and Wolverine really are stand up gentlemen, and I fully endorse their product, and the men that are representing them.

I indicated I believed it was resolved to Haugy's satisfation, which by his earlier post it does appear that way. Maybe their investigation was thorough enough to reveal the issue. Perhaps the Wolverine rep paid for it or perhaps not. I don't think throwing money at the issue was going to make it go away or satisfy him. Haugy wanted the floor he he envisioned, and he finally has it. If he is satisfied with this, even after all the hokey pokey that went on, we should be as well.
Just my $.02
 

kmacht

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I indicated I believed it was resolved to Haugy's satisfation, which by his earlier post it does appear that way. Maybe their investigation was thorough enough to reveal the issue. Perhaps the Wolverine rep paid for it or perhaps not. I don't think throwing money at the issue was going to make it go away or satisfy him. Haugy wanted the floor he he envisioned, and he finally has it. If he is satisfied with this, even after all the hokey pokey that went on, we should be as well.
Just my $.02

I agree that since it was resolved to Haughy's satisfaction that neither Wolverine or Alphagarage owe him anything else. For future buyers of wolverine epoxy though, it would be nice if Haughy were to comment on what HE believes the cause was and what the resolution with Wolverine was. From what he has posted in this thread, he doesn't believe that he mixed the product incorrectly and followed the directions exactly. If that is true then what is to keep this same problem from happening to the next customer?

Keith
 

tc2000

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May I recommend a personal message to Haughy? Haughy has been asked directly and indirectly to address this and he hasn't taken the opportunity.
 

GarageEnvy

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I'd like to hereby move that this thread be closed now that the issue has been resolved, pontificated, philosophized and fully beaten to death. Can I get a second on that motion?
 

Hammerdown

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I agree that since it was resolved to Haughy's satisfaction that neither Wolverine or Alphagarage owe him anything else. For future buyers of wolverine epoxy though, it would be nice if Haughy were to comment on what HE believes the cause was and what the resolution with Wolverine was. From what he has posted in this thread, he doesn't believe that he mixed the product incorrectly and followed the directions exactly. If that is true then what is to keep this same problem from happening to the next customer?

Keith

I agree- it would be nice :)to know what when wrong so others can avoid the same type of problem.:mad:
Haugy believes he did everything correctly, which could be the case. I just know from personal experience that what you think you did and what actually happened can be two different things. It may be a minor difference, but it could make a world of difference in the results. If it is a product issue, then 10's, 100's or even 1000's of people (depending on batch size) would be experiencing the same issue! Period. I'd hope (and assume) that Wolverine did due dilligence in testing the batches that were sold to Haugy and made sure they cured properly. They probably checked with other customers sold the same batch to see if they were encountering any problems. If this did not reveal an issue, then you have to see what conditions were present and what the customer did to have the issue. I know it *****, and the first time I had an issue with an installed floor I called up the manufacturer and wanted to know why the product wasn't working as spec'd., as I thought I had done exactly as detailed in their instructions. One small area would not cure. Fast forward a day and I find that a helper dumped the last little bit of material out of the bucket, including scraping the sides, and rolled this in. Upon closer examination you could barely see the outline of the bucket in the un-cured coating and where it had been spread from there. Why didn't this product cure, because it was the last ounce or two that had clung to the side of the bucket during mixing, and it had not been combined with the activator properly, if at all. It looked like the rest of the material, but was inert. Of course the customer did not want a repair but a re-coat. I'm out of pocket because a very simple mistake. One it took my helper hours to realize he had done. He kept insisting he did everything by the book, which in all other aspects he did, except he poured out one little ounce of un-activated product on the floor. One measly little ounce cost me my profit. :wtf: My point being that with most products offered, the manufacturer has done a lot of testing to make sure they work. Sure, sometimes bad materials get through, but this would present a much larger issue than a single customer. If 50 customers call with the same problem, you know you have a product issue, If one calls, you probably have an application error.
I'm just glad Haugy is happy with his floor, as he seems very reasonable and I applaud him in his handling of this issue. With the modern age of rapid mass communication like the internet, these boards can be rough on a particular product and cause damage to it's reputation, founded or unfounded. He could have come out with guns blazin' and IMHO he didn't.
This thread has lasted a lot longer than I thought it would, although I knew it would get some screen time since AlphaGarage confidently markets his products here.
 

Hammerdown

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I'd like to hereby move that this thread be closed now that the issue has been resolved, pontificated, philosophized and fully beaten to death. Can I get a second on that motion?

Sorry, I was writting the above novella while you posted.

I second the motion. Here, here!
I call a vote, all those in favor of closing this thread say I.....................
 

MrMark

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I'd like to know how he mixed it and screwed it up too. He stated he was very good at following directions and how he had built hot rods and crawlers. This thread leaves no resolution of what really is going on.

I agree 100 percent with kmact's posts and would like to hear from the OP.

This isn't rocket science and mixing up epoxy shouldn't be very hard. I am considering this product and it would be nice to get some finality to this saga. I'm not real big on thinking that a 'professional' would do it any different or better; probably not as good.

How did you mix this up Haughy if you would be so kind? If I purchase this I want to know the pitfalls.

Here's what Haughy stated before in the beginning of this thread:

"Here's where we derail the Happy Train. I walked all over the floor making sure it had time to cure. It had been 23 hours since we had laid it down. And it was solid, EVERYWHERE. I walked all over the floor, and even swept up loose flakes, and then used a leaf blower to clean it out again. So I was all over this floor for about 2 hours."

I assume this means dry, and afterall he is walking all over it. This does not jibe with a floor that has wet epoxy on it from poor mixing. Surely, he would have discovered the wet epoxy when he was all over the floor for 2 hours.

So what we have here is a disconnect from what Haughy is saying and what the manufacturer is saying. It would be nice to have some resolution.


I'd also like to know from Haughy why he couldn't get the clear coat to lay out right? Was this also application error? If so, what was done wrong? Again, not rocket science, but painting with a roller.

I'm also concerned about the outgassing of the first coating. That seems bizarre. What was the cause of this?

Was the real problem with the concrete?

These are some pretty big open issues with no resolution for the person considering this expensive product.

The other question I have is can this epoxy stand up to jacks and jack stands.
 
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