Mystery tool, 1937

[Oregon Dave]

^ I've already notified several WWII collecting colleagues in the UK. One of them is a co-coordinator of an Air Museum, and I have sent him pounds and pounds of tools. Mainly wheeled vehicle guys, like me. But I am pretty confident that they will be able to run it down with the research and identification of the specific gun and tool.

Fantastic effort; only a matter of time - we'll see an image - many atta boys!

 

[four.cycle]

@Old Man Roger
^ exactly... right after we see what Atkinson's "cunning plan" might be.

 

[alfadan]

Here's a description of the gun including the hydropneumatic recoil system. Its easy to understand why adjustment would be needed to slow the barrel down at the correct rate, especially since this was bag gun, using seperate bags of powder. No pictures of the wrench though!

BL 4.5-Inch Medium Gun - Militaria

The 60-Pdr BL Gun was introduced into service in 1905 and served with distinction during WW1. It was upgraded in 1918 to the Mk II gun on a Mk IV carriage with a longer barrel and a hydro-pneumatic recoil system giving it an increase in range from 12,300 to 15,700 yds firing a 60 lb shell...

militaria.british-classic-motorcycles.co.uk

 

[Old Man Roger]

Here's a description of the gun including the hydropneumatic recoil system. Its easy to understand why adjustment would be needed to slow the barrel down at the correct rate, especially since this was bag gun, using seperate bags of powder. No pictures of the wrench though!

BL 4.5-Inch Medium Gun - Militaria

The 60-Pdr BL Gun was introduced into service in 1905 and served with distinction during WW1. It was upgraded in 1918 to the Mk II gun on a Mk IV carriage with a longer barrel and a hydro-pneumatic recoil system giving it an increase in range from 12,300 to 15,700 yds firing a 60 lb shell...

militaria.british-classic-motorcycles.co.uk

I saw one very similar at the North Florida Military Museum. I made pew pew noises while looking at it.lol

 

[Provincial]

According to Wikipedia, the last operational use of the 4.5 inch howitzer was in Malaysia in 1942. A 1937 date on a tool seems reasonable.

 

[Oregon Dave]

Is there any reason that this or any hydraulic buffer tool is unique to the 4.5; seems the logic of buffer adjustment is variation is barrel/tube press pressure from changing projectile weights or powder charges or both - can envision the adjustment having a relative set-point, but being tweaked in real time. Might not the tool be found in the tool box of other artillery pieces/equipment?

 

[Old Man Roger]

Is there any reason that this or any hydraulic buffer tool is unique to the 4.5; seems the logic of buffer adjustment is variation is barrel/tube press pressure from changing projectile weights or powder charges or both - can envision the adjustment having a relative set-point, but being tweaked in real time. Might not the tool be found in the tool box of other artillery pieces/equipment?

Oh I’ve looked.lol

 

[Old Man Roger]

Pack Howitzers seem to be somewhat modular, the tools, from what I’ve seen today, tend to be compartmented. The tools for the fuze seem to be in a tool box, while others, like prybars and special tools are packed with their corresponding equipment.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Is there any reason that this or any hydraulic buffer tool is unique to the 4.5;

Why would they give it a model number different than the model numbers given to the keys and spanners issued to other guns? If you just peruse the excerpts I've already posted you can see that variance.

Might not the tool be found in the tool box of other artillery pieces/equipment?

All the TMs and Handbooks for all the various British QF and BL guns had keys and spanners - including hydraulic buffer spanners, in their basis of issue lists, packing instructions, storage instructions, etc. But again, they all have different model numbers.

Having said that, I do believe there is likely an element and degree of commonality among hydraulic buffer spanners from different guns. Sizes might be different. Configurations might be a little different. But form, fit, function and general shape will probably be similar. Like the way the two different US Naval gun wrenches 3Bay posted look similar. Meaning, if we find a photo of one, even if it's not the same model number, for the 4.5-incher, I do believe it will likely be close enough. And I said so before right here....

due to the evolution of human industrial technical capacity to standardize, you might run into a version with a different number for a different gun that isn't so different, having to perform similar services on similar apparatuses.

I haven't found a TM or Handbook for a gun with a hydraulic buffer later than the 1929 4.5 incher. Hence, no illustrations of ANY hydraulic buffer spanner, even if it has a different number for a different gun.

But I'm no longer looking.

 

[Oregon Dave]

Why would they give it a model number different than the model numbers given to the keys and spanners issued to other guns? If you just peruse the excerpts I've already posted you can see that variance.

All the TMs and Handbooks for all the various British QF and BL guns had keys and spanners - including hydraulic buffer spanners, in their basis of issue lists, packing instructions, storage instructions, etc. But again, they all have different model numbers.

Having said that, I do believe there is likely an element and degree of commonality among hydraulic buffer spanners from different guns. Sizes might be different. Configurations might be a little different. But form, fit, function and general shape will probably be similar. Like the way the two different US Naval gun wrenches 3Bay posted look similar. Meaning, if we find a photo of one, even if it's not the same model number, for the 4.5-incher, I do believe it will likely be close enough. And I said so before right here....

I haven't found a TM or Handbook for a gun with a hydraulic buffer later than the 1929 4.5 incher. Hence, no illustrations of ANY hydraulic buffer spanner, even if it has a different number for a different gun.

But I'm no longer looking.

Excellent as it seems to be expected from you - Thanks.

From what you have researched, do you feel the hydraulic buffer used on the 4.5 could have been used elsewhere; providing another avenue/rabbit hole to explore.

As far British part no.'s, have no clue; U.S. FSN's, reasonably certain, at least during my service, meant US made and a match is the same product.

Thanks again for your extensive research and sharing of your work; we all have learned a lot - appreciate it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

From what you have researched, do you feel the hydraulic buffer used on the 4.5 could have been used elsewhere;

I don't know. I did not read the TMs with that in mind. I would think they'd likely scale in capacity with the recoil of the gun, necessitating different size fixtures etc, but I don't know. I keep trying to avoid what I think is an unnecessary rabbit hole and you guys keep luring me back in!

 

[Old Man Roger]

Did you find the video yet?

 

[Oregon Dave]

I don't know. I did not read the TMs with that in mind. I would think they'd likely scale in capacity with the recoil of the gun, necessitating different size fixtures etc, but I don't know. I keep trying to avoid what I think is an unnecessary rabbit hole and you guys keep luring me back in!

Don't mean too; just asking because I am researching that and will share what I find - trying to avoid re-discovering the wheel.

Take a more than well deserved break on this one; we all know you are accruing a backlog elsewhere.

Beer & BBQ time?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The first salvo from the first of my three colleagues on the other side of the pond to respond to my query did not produce a more definitive answer or a better illustration or photo of the OP's tool, but it did produce a funny anecdote in the meantime....

"During my school cadet days in the early 70's I remember attending an artillery demonstration at Larkhill Garrison in Wiltshire. We were given the opportunity to crew a 25 pounder which involved unpacking the projectiles, selecting the charge, loading, laying at some a distant tank target before finally pulling the cord & watching the projectile disappear onto its target, boom. It was mind boggling to be informed by the gunnery instructor 'we are still using WW2 ammunition from our stores'."

 

[Old Man Roger]

Guess we stocked up.lol

 

[Stubby1743]

I live only five miles from The Royal Armories Artillery Collection which is housed in the Victorian Fort Nelson. I dropped in this afternoon in the hope that they may have had a Q.F. 4.5 inch Howitzer on display which may have had all its tools in its toolbox. They didn't, but there was a smaller Q.F. 3.3 inch 18pdr, field gun from 1917. Being of a similar age, I think that we can assume that the recoil buffers would be similar in concept.









It's plain to see why a tool with a screwdriver blade would be required.

 

[Oregon Dave]

I live only five miles from The Royal Armories Artillery Collection which is housed in the Victorian Fort Nelson. I dropped in this afternoon in the hope that they may have had a Q.F. 4.5 inch Howitzer on display which may have had all its tools in its toolbox. They didn't, but there was a smaller Q.F. 3.3 inch 18pdr, field gun from 1917. Being of a similar age, I think that we can assume that the recoil buffers would be similar in concept.









It's plain to see why a tool with a screwdriver blade would be required.

Thanks; one can imagine the spanner/wrench size also - but to tell you the truth; as I scrolled down "I just knew" a tool picture was down here too.

I'm sure asked questions, it's not uncommon for parts & pieces to be sitting in some corner somewhere.

Thank-You very much; the pictures are very good and present a great perspective of what a hydraulic buffer adjust tool is and how it is used, appreciate your taking the time to go there and take pictures to share (G.J.'ers rule); l hope you found the trip worthwhile.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I dropped in this afternoon...

Mighty cool of you, Stubs!

It's plain to see why a tool with a screwdriver blade would be required.

 

[RTM]

It's plain to see why a tool with a screwdriver blade would be required

And they even painted them orange so we could find them. Well done.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I live only five miles from The Royal Armories Artillery Collection which is housed in the Victorian Fort Nelson. I dropped in this afternoon in the hope that they may have had a Q.F. 4.5 inch Howitzer on display which may have had all its tools in its toolbox. They didn't, but there was a smaller Q.F. 3.3 inch 18pdr, field gun from 1917. Being of a similar age, I think that we can assume that the recoil buffers would be similar in concept.









It's plain to see why a tool with a screwdriver blade would be required.

So funny, I did the same thing yesterday.lol I was driving by the North Florida Military Museum, but they were closed. They have an anti aircraft gun in the parking lot, but if I remember correctly they might have a howitzer inside.

 

[Oregon Dave]

Finally got into the document Manual of Hydraulics for Garrison Artillery-1895.
at: [https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15040coll1/id/468]

It contains a: List of Spanners Required for Use with the Hydraulic or Hydro-Pneumatic Portion's of Various Mountings.

For the: Carriage, Garrison, R.M.L., 12-5-Inch Small Port. on page 142

Spanner no. 146. Valve, release, also filling plug and pump plunger, hydraulic lift. Is listed.

I searched for other hits on 146 and a passel for an illustration/image; not saying it isn’t there.

Just to add a dribble to the data/information already in the pot.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Stopped by Camp Blanding Museum, no tools, but they had a few Howitzers. And some other cool ****.

 

[Old Man Roger]

 

[jd_1138]

Maybe it's a golf putter that's missing its shaft?

 

[Old Man Roger]

Maybe it's a golf putter that's missing its shaft?

Dammit, I drove by Bill Murray’s golf course a few times this month, I could have stopped in and asked.lol

 

[Junk&Disorder]

Big thanks to you guys. You are awesome. The search was captivating. I thoroughly enjoyed all the twists and turns.
Additionally, it looks like a relatively rare item given no other has been found, to date.

Lucky this was intercepted heading out for scrap

 

[Oregon Dave]

Big thanks to you guys. You are awesome. The search was captivating. I thoroughly enjoyed all the twists and turns.
Additionally, it looks like a relatively rare item given no other has been found, to date.

Lucky this was intercepted heading out for scrap

O.K; you now have a paint can opener with some "History"

 

[Karl_B]

I had emailed the Australian War Memorial back in August and finally received a reply.

"Thank you for your email and apologies for the time it has taken me to get back to you.

I am afraid you’ve got me on this one. I haven’t been able to find anything like it. I thought one of the comments were on to something with the take down wrench, but I can’t find one similar. The hydraulic buffer idea is certainly the most logical, but unfortunately I cant find one in our collection or anywhere else.

Sorry to have made you wait so long to not solve the mystery for you."

It looks like everyone's interest has died down, but I thought it was worth updating with this.