Need a plan review for workshop

[Radix2]

I am struggling a bit with the layout and need a sense check on the size for the workshop portions of a workshop-garage addition.

This is just the very preliminary first cut I have drawn up -

my needs are for a woodworking area and a metal working area.

the workshop is basically a 35 by 40 - and I am thinking I want several specific areas divided off

- a metal working shop containing machine tools - lathe, mill, drillpress, bandsaw and a worktable - currently at 16x15

- a dedicated area for really dirty work - grinding, welding, plasma cutting, rattle can spraying..? currently at 8x12

- a utility room for HVAC and compressor, etc. - currently 6x20

- the balance of the area is the woodshop, general assembly area.

I have tried to put some tools in the layout to get a better feel for it, but even though much of the stuff is being moved out of a smaller (13x34) space, it still seems a bit crowded - or I am not laying it out very well.

The stairway shown leads to a second floor with two bedrooms and storage - the storage portion is primarily accessed from the stairway in the garage area. There will be a large rollup door from the garage to the workshop.

The plans is for the garage side to be a bit shorter than the workshop side - say 40x50, with 14 foot walls.

Basically I am looking for sage advise on the sizes of the spaces, the arrangement, or any other advisory comments.

attached is a jpg that is not too good for details, as well as a PDF that makes all the dimensions clear.

 

[onthefence777]

So your shop is going to be 40X85? I think that will definitely be a good start. Just don't be surprised if you end up adding on to it later. Consider that in your plans...I just don't know the size or layout of your property.

One thing I will say - If I were you, I would switch the compressor/furnace room position with the grinding/welding room. You won't often need to enter the compressor room from the machine shop, but I am willing to be you will need to go directly from the machine shop to the grinding shop, or vice versa.

EDIT: Furthermore, I highly recommend that where ever you put the compressor room, insulate it well! Personally, I would put it in a lean to off of the interior floor space.

Also, cut one of the man doors from the woodshop into the garage out. You will thank me later for the extra wall space. I would cut the north (on the drawing) out. You can always use the roll up instead - the lost space of the doors swinging open are minimized being right next to each other.

2nd edit - Looking at it more, I would move the machine shop to the east side of the "work shop" - that will connect it to the grinding room, and get it closer to the "garage", just move the roll up connecting the wood shop to the garage further south to accommodate. that gives you more wall space as well.

 

[mike13u]

Looks like it is going to be a great shop. I agree with your walls separating the wood working from the metal working. Sawdust gets in the oils used in metal shop and the sludge you end up with is nasty. I tried to make it work once. Never again. Saw dust is fine enough that cleaning is a serious chore.
That said, I see no point in the other walls. Unless you are a CNC machine shop with a bunch of test equipment and computer hardware, I see no need in a dedicated grinding room. Just clean-up after a project like most fab shops do and you will be fine. Unlike sawdust, grind metal flies off the grinder but then stays down. Its messy, but not hard to clean.
You have a bunch of usable space if you knock the walls down between the metal shop, compressor furnace, and the grind area.
Usually, If your running the compressor with a tool you have hearing protection because of the tool noise. If the compressor needs to refill and you are in that area doing something like TIG welding or concentrating on machining a part, just walk over and shut the compressor down for a moment until you finish the part.

 

[onthefence777]

That said, I see no point in the other walls. Unless you are a CNC machine shop with a bunch of test equipment and computer hardware, I see no need in a dedicated grinding room. Just clean-up after a project like most fab shops do and you will be fine. Unlike sawdust, grind metal flies off the grinder but then stays down. Its messy, but not hard to clean.

Agreed ^^^^

You have a bunch of usable space if you knock the walls down between the metal shop, compressor furnace, and the grind area.
Usually, If your running the compressor with a tool you have hearing protection because of the tool noise. If the compressor needs to refill and you are in that area doing something like TIG welding or concentrating on machining a part, just walk over and shut the compressor down for a moment until you finish the part.

Partially disagree. Keep the compressor walled off. It will some day drive you nuts. I loathe having to ever shut off the compressor just to be able to concentrate. Not so bad if you have a properly sized compressor, but when it jumps on at the worst time you will be cussing up a storm, guaranteed.

 

[mike13u]

Agreed ^^^^



Partially disagree. Keep the compressor walled off. It will some day drive you nuts. I loathe having to ever shut off the compressor just to be able to concentrate. Not so bad if you have a properly sized compressor, but when it jumps on at the worst time you will be cussing up a storm, guaranteed.

Well said. But, as you mention, a properly sized compressor isn't going to be running much unless you are on a tool. Everyone has their own take on a dream shop, mine is that I'll take the shop space versus the chance my compressor kicks on when I don't want it to once a month.
Of course, as you allude to, my position is moot if your compressor isn't sized properly to your shop and the thing wants to fill five times a day.
If he knocks the two walls down between compressor and grinding area, he will still always have a wall between compressor and and himself in all but the metal /grinding shop. The only air tools he will be using in there (DA, angle, die, etc) all need hearing protection with the exception of the occasional blower. All other air tool use in shop will have the compressor in a walled-off area by design.

 

[Thumper68]

To add to what the others have said I think the doors into the machine shop and the grinding welding area are too small, kind of a pita to be moving heavy things in and out through small doors.

 

[SD396]

If it were me I would have the machine and welding areas together and next to your main garage area where the lift is. If you ever need to fab something or repair a tractor part it will be a lot closer. I would even have the roll-up door leading into it in case you need to move large objects in or out.

 

[astroracer]

A lot of stuff to think about huh? And all viable.
Another thought is to utilize the space under that stairway as your utility room. Opens up a lot more space for other things. Close it in and insulate and you will hardly notice when the compressor fires up. Doing that also puts your furnace and compressor in a central location which reduces runs to the far side of the shop.
Mark

 

[Radix2]

Wow guys, thanks for the great input !

I will definitely look at incorporating these ideas as I refine the plan. I am surprised that the idea for a dirty room is not supported, it does free up the layout to get that wall out - now I am thinking to combine it with the metal working area - but thinking of a worktable with side baffles and an exhaust fan.

I'll post updates as I work through details. The stairway kinda throws a wrench into moving the metalshop to the garage wall side, but I will work on it.

 

[Radix2]

Well the time is here to make final decisions on the workshop layout.

I have taken the advice here to heart and have made some changes to eliminate some of the original walls and doors.

My current issues are

1. is the welding/grinding room going to work as revised here? - it is 8 feet deep and will be open to the machine shop - but I am thinking a curtain to contain junk if required. Thinking of a hood of some sort to **** fumes out. Concerned it may be tight but I will have outlets to allow welding in the garage for big items.

- should I place the blast cabinet here? the compressor is now moved out of the workshop environment and under the stairs on the other side of the wall in the garage - better for noise and uses a wasted space - may need to reconfigure only 69" headroom. Alternative for blast cab is in garage

2. General layout of machines in shops - I have copied some of my work areas from other shops but does anyone see workflow/feed problems or have better suggestions?

3. Dust collection - the plan is to have lines run to the tablesaw area and the crosscut area and the collector in/near the boiler furnace room. Alternatively the collector could be in the south east or west corners

I am attaching a jpg - but the resolution is marginal, so I am also attaching a pdf that is clear when zooming in.

 

[TractorJeff]

Welding area 8 feet by (?) is too small in my opinion!
Run out of moving space real quick by the time you shove a couple of welders and supporting equipment in there! I would definitely have it adjacent to the lift area so that damaged or fabbed projects on the larger scale can be welded on.

 

[Radix2]

Welding area 8 feet by (?) is too small in my opinion!
Run out of moving space real quick by the time you shove a couple of welders and supporting equipment in there! I would definitely have it adjacent to the lift area so that damaged or fabbed projects on the larger scale can be welded on.

Yeah, it is tough to put up any walls since it takes away from being able to be flexible... I go back and forth thinking about use of more curtains or making a retractable wall at that end. I am also a little cramped on jointer feed length.

I do find Welding projects seem to be either small items which can be wired on a bench, or big stuff you have to take the welder to anyway. I will definitely have power in the garage for the big stuff.

 

[rsanter]

The welding room needs double doors to the outside. Ideally you will have a patio cover there. You will run into times where you have something bigger to weld or move in and out.

What if you need to weld on the frame of a car? A tractor implement?

Bob

 

[73RR]

If you haven't already done so, get some sidewalk chalk and layout your welding room. 8' is tiny. About the size of one of my bathrooms. Maybe your planned projects or what you 'usually' work are small-ish but 8' is small. If you had a 36" table in the center of the room then you would only have 30" on either side. If your welding projects are in the jewelry line then it will probably be ok since your equipment would also be small.
As for ventilation, I have used several of the 8" inline fans (ebay) that are often used by the pot growers. They work well on a 4-spd ceiling fan switch and move lots-o-air...cheap too.
Personally, I am still not a fan of living quarters above a working shop. Try to generate some positive air pressure upstairs to keep the air clean.

I also wonder about your local jurisdiction and what they will say about accessing the living space via the garage. Would not fly around here.

 

[Radix2]

the overall space is already built, the current step is to built out the electrical...so that requires a good handle on machine and workspace layout.

Thanks for the comments so far.

The small welding/dirty area is coming from having no dedicated area in my current shop and thinking it would be better to have some containment. I'd say a good portion of my welding is tig on smallish items that can set on a small table. For large frames or structural items, I would weld in the garage side.

Here is the build thread- I am currently updating it to get it up to date, the relevant interior pictures are coming soon.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331680

The workshop and garage have radiant in the floors, the upstairs living space has forced air.

The living space has a front stair from the great room, and the rear stair from the garage accesses a storage or multipurpose space, which does then have a access to the living space. More to come in the build thread on how the garage mezzanine evolved during construction.

 

[Radix2]

Well, I have decided to do full electrical hookup for welding in the back of the garage for bigger projects.

I am still on the fence about how to configure the area at the back of the shop. My current idea is to only build the wall behind the metal lathe and make a stub wall along the back . I could then make a sliding door or curtain to close off the area if it seems to be useful once I start working.

Anyone have any advice on locating a blast cabinet (other than put it close to the compressor) ? I am leaning to moving it out of the workshop to along the outside wall in the garage.

 

[tinysparky]

To add to what the others have said I think the doors into the machine shop and the grinding welding area are too small, kind of a pita to be moving heavy things in and out through small doors.

I agree with this. Moving a full sheet in at 4x12....really tough to get it in the table. if you are mainly doing small things...might be fine.

I would combine the two metal areas...move furnace room to the right...Then double door the metal room to allow easer moving in of material.

 

[bczygan]

I never design a building by itself. You must always look at the property first, and design the building to fit the property and relate to it and the other buildings and functions upon it.

In addition, it must relate to surrounding properties.

What is your lot layout and what are the zoning rules for your zoning.

Bill

 

[Ray916MN]

My two cents. There appears to be wasted space which can be eliminated and the layout for access to the storage and living areas are inefficient.

I would consider making the stairway to the living area and storage a single stairway with a short second floor hallway with access to the storage and the living area. I would locate the HVAC, compressor, etc, underneath the short hallway and stairway. I would end the stairway where the interior wall separates the garage area from workshop area, so you don't have to walk through the workshop to get to the garage from the living area and vice versa. This approach should keep the stairway cleaner and minimize the potential for tracking stuff out of the workshop areas into the living area. Combining the staircases into a single staircase will allow you to make the stairway wider while still saving space over the current layout. I would consider using double wide pocket doors or even a garage door to separate the workshop/garage. This minimizes the amount of space taken up to allow door swing, makes it easier to move large projects in and out and will really help with ventilation of your workshop spaces when you don't need to contain your workspace. Lastly I would not plan any workspace which can only be accessed by walking through another workspace.