Need an electrolysis power supply

[pipsters]

I made an e-tank and have everything ready to go, down to the sodium carbonate. I keep going thru power supplies. The first one was an old desktop computer power supply. Unfortunately it only put out .4 ma so needless to say that wasn't going to happen (I figured that is why the computer wouldn't start...). Next up was a DC supply for an old set of speakers. Thought it was good to go, 12v 1.0 amp output, well when I hooked it up it was putting out 17.5v and 6.5 amps. It blew within a few minutes. Next up was an old battery charger I had acquired from an estate sale. Output was off the charts, well over the 15 amp range on the meter. It was a dud, in the trash. Next up was an RC car lipo battery charger. Voltage was good but output was very low, 4.5 ma this time. I guess it needs a battery hooked up. Last up was a 12v car battery trickle charger, output was supposed to be 600 ma but testing it only nets 1 ma with no battery hooked up. I have no unused, partially charged batteries, so hooking up a battery in series won't help.

Went to Wal-Mart, they don't have any non-automatic chargers. HF does offer one but it appears as though they have changed the design (Item 45005) and according to the manual it must be hooked up to a battery in order to output the amps.

I'm at a loss...no idea where to turn...don't want to spend $50 or $100 on just a stupid DC power supply...pulling my hair out.

Any suggestions?

Also, thoughts on my electrolysis tank? I wanted to use rebar because it was easily replaceable.

 

[Swan]

Look for a used one and/or put a WTB ad on craigslist, local paper etc to find one cheap. If you are buying new, I highly recommend Epsco http://www.epscoinc.com

PS Why are you using sodium carbonate? Sodium hydroxide is the preferred electrolyte.

 

[pipsters]

Look for a used one and/or put a WTB ad on craigslist, local paper etc to find one cheap. If you are buying new, I highly recommend Epsco http://www.epscoinc.com

PS Why are you using sodium carbonate? Sodium hydroxide is the preferred electrolyte.

I thought sodium carbonate i.e. Arm & Hammer "washing soda" was what I have seen in article after article...

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

I got mine in the pool department of Wal-Mart under a different name though

 

[bl00]

I use arm and hammer washing soda and it works fine. Baking powder works, too.

 

[Outlawmws]

Sodium Carbonate is fine for Electrolysis. Bicarbonate will work but not quite as effectively.

I've been using a 20A battery charger for this for years, often on low. I have measured the load and it's typically right around 1A even on slow charge.

How large of parts were you doing when the PS died? the larger the parts (more surface area) the more juice you need.


Get a roll of soft iron wire to go into the tank. You don't want the plated clip of the copper wire down in the soup.

What I do is use a piece of rebar across the top and hang parts from that using the soft iron wire.

 

[neonnblack]

I have this for it, but havent tried it yet.

 

[Outlawmws]

Neonnblack, does that box have a real transformer in it? solid state PS devices tend not to work for electrolysis (Although one guy found he could "trick" it into working, by getting the part closer to the anode (but not touching) until it started; then he could back it off. YMMV

 

[darkk]

I've modified several of those Radio Shack boxes and all of mine have had a transformer in them. I always had to move its location for my projects.

 

[JonBoy81]

I just moved out of fl, but in Orlando we had a place called skycraft that sold anything under the sun mechanical / electronic / robotic / surplus . They have a website that might be worth checking out. They always have old power supply / radar / military / medical items. Other than that, would a tattoo machine power supply work? Should be on a pot switch.

 

[coolreed]

I would listen to Outlawmws on electrolysis advice. He knows.

 

[pipsters]

I would listen to Outlawmws on electrolysis advice. He knows.

The problem is he suggested a battery charger. None of the ones you can buy these days will work, they are all "automatic" and sensing from what I can tell. If you or him has a link to one that will work I would appreciate it.

I tried an old one I picked up but it was bad.

Unfortunately I don't really have time to hunt garage sales every weekend (I work weekends).

 

[merr6267]

I tried a power supply exactly like neonnblack posted, and it worked great for a few hours, and then it started smoking.
Then I pulled out an old computer power supply, and modified it like show on other threads here and it worked for a few weeks and then quit working suddenly. The fan would turn, and the lights would come on, but there was no output.

I'm thinking that I'll try another, as I have a few more, but don't really want to fry all of them, as I still want to piece together a computer for shop tunes.

Are these power supplies sensitive to over current? Like, if the resistance in my tank is too little, will it overload or is there a limit to actual amount of current that it will output.

I had a lot of surface area in my tank . . .

Thanks,
Phill

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

Note to self, pick up an old school battery charger at a garage sale. I have one but spares are cheap and I don't want to get caught short.

Jim

 

[Outlawmws]

The problem is he suggested a battery charger. None of the ones you can buy these days will work, they are all "automatic" and sensing from what I can tell. If you or him has a link to one that will work I would appreciate it.

I tried an old one I picked up but it was bad.

Unfortunately I don't really have time to hunt garage sales every weekend (I work weekends).

Actually, there is a way around that someone posted:

Use the new type battery charger AND a battery. The battery keeps the thing running and provides a more stable current through the E tank.

 

[wrench]

I have been playing with electrolysis for some time. I use sodium carbonate from the pool supply store(Walmart has it in their pool supply dept also).I use a shumaker charger that I have had for 30 years.I use a 12 volt battery and connect the charger to the battery,seems to give better results than just using the charger direct .I have a 6 gallon tank,and a 55 gallon plastic drum for larger items. I use the same charger-battery combo for both tanks.

 

[jrlp]

Check my thread in my sig. Lots of good information posted.. I think you'll find what you're looking for.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Catalyze]

I use Arm and Hammer laundry soap...3 pieces of rebar....and either a Schumaker charger (12/6 volt....6/2 amp) or in my plastic 35 gallon barrel, I use a portable charger/starter from NAPA. For wire to the part, I just use a roll of mechanic's wire from some parts store back in the 70's.
Craig

 

[pipsters]

Actually, there is a way around that someone posted:

Use the new type battery charger AND a battery. The battery keeps the thing running and provides a more stable current through the E tank.

Interesting OK I do have an old battery that is completely kaput, I'll hook it up with jumper cables to give it some juice then hopefully one of the automatic ones will take it from there.

Barring something else that is the best option at this point, thank you!

 

[dadsEH]

My KMart 4 amp batt charger has worked great for the last 5 years...
You boys in the US of A got some kind of **** retentive batt charger laws happening?

 

[Outlawmws]

My KMart 4 amp batt charger has worked great for the last 5 years...
You boys in the US of A got some kind of **** retentive batt charger laws happening?

If it's an old school transformer type charger than generally no issues using them. The new "smart" solid state chargers have an issue getting started up unless they see a certain voltage...

 

[kindyr]

Would one of those old variable transformers from an old model train set work?

 

[CecilTheTurtle]

I've been in the same boat as the OP. I was using a 'smart' car charger for a while, but it just wasn't cutting it. I tried using an old laptop charger but it was too 'smart' as well. It only put out a few milliamps.

This weekend I had a chance to swing through the MIT Flea Market. I had a hunch I'd be able to find something there that I could use, and I was right. I was also surprised at the number of tool vendors there. Lots of good stuff to look over.

Found this home-made DC power supply for $15. It puts out plenty of amps, even on a big vise part. Took a peek inside, and it seems solidly built, but I refrained from digging too deep until I could have one of my buddies who's into electronics take a look at it. It's got 5v+ and -, 12V+ and -, and "24 for smoke" as the seller put it. Already used it to clean up my early Parker vise, and it worked a treat.

 

[MBeaty]

This thread is quite timely. I was just trying to figure out what to use as a power source for some small electrolysis work.

McMaster Carr has some small plug in transformers that output 12 vDC up to around 2A. I am not sure if something like this has much circuitry to sense what it is connected to, but the price is not bad.

They also have some larger power supplies that are not adjustable, but still "reasonably" priced.

Maybe someone with some more electrical experience can chime and and let us know if they would work. I have seen a huge range of amperages listed for use in electrolysis, but many swear by the low and slow method.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-dc-power-supplies/=jcoaxf

 

[pipsters]

This is a $20 w/ shipping DC power supply that should work...I'm looking on freecycle right now but might give this a shot if that doesn't work...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m3174X601276Xba9fb9f7f641af123d8b07114b843ea5

From my understanding the amp rating is an "up to" on these things, in other words it won't put out the rated 16 amps unless it's required...the higher the capability the better the unit and the less likely it will be to burn out.

 

[chris1280]

Hey Pipsters and everyone else reading, I have a 12" piece of railroad track that is very rusted. Do you think that power supply from newegg that you listed will cut it?

 

[pipsters]

An update. I bought the Harbor Freight 6/12 charger for $24 after coupon and it would not run without a battery hooked up in between. When I did run it like that, it checked out in under 15 mins. The load was not very high, as I monitored it with an amp clamp. Under 1 amp. It was just a POS.

I bought one from Autozone, a Schumacher brand, 6/12 same as the HF. Locally it was $40 although there is an online coupon where you can get $10 off that IIRC so $30.

It WILL run without a battery hooked up, it is a purely manual charger. In addition it ran for about 3 days straight with no hiccups on its part. Also made in Mexico not China, FWIW.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...humacher_5570271-p?searchTerm=battery+charger

After doing that I used it to charge up my car battery. I accidentally left it connected while trying to start and it pegged the amp load on it..shut the charger off. Thought I killed it. Waited about 2 hours and came back and it was fine and humming away. Good product for only $6 more than HF (with coupons).

 

[Outlawmws]

Pipsters, Is it solid state, or a transformer unit?

 

[pipsters]

Pipsters, Is it solid state, or a transformer unit?

I'm not too sure how to tell the difference, but it is pretty heavy. It's not really an electronic one with a computer in it. Although it won't put out say 6 amps if selected to that, it will vary it's load based on some sort of calculation. When using the electrolysis tank it was around 1 amp even when selected to 6 amps. When charging my battery it varied between 6 amps down to 1 amp as it got full.

But it won't shut off automatically...I left it too long and the battery boiled over a bit.

 

[shephd]

Pips terms, how is the Schumacher charger working?

 

[neonnblack]

Whatever you do, dont just use a power cord, spliced, plugged into the wall. Ask me how i know!

 

[airdale]

Whatever you do, dont just use a power cord, spliced, plugged into the wall. Ask me how i know!

I'm glad you are still with us

It has to be DC in order to work.

 

[neonnblack]

I dont think so. i plugged it up, came back about 10 minutes later cord was so pliable and hot i could have pulled it apart by hand. Water was boiling, it blackened the ratchet i had in it.

 

[racingtadpole]

Circuit diagram of a really basic unregulated transformer type supply for those of you feeling adventurous enough to have a crack at making one.

 

[airdale]

I dont think so. i plugged it up, came back about 10 minutes later cord was so pliable and hot i could have pulled it apart by hand. Water was boiling, it blackened the ratchet i had in it.

Did you mean one of those plug-end power supplies i.e. wall-wart?

 

[neonnblack]

No, i had a serious lack of judgment and used an appliance two prong chord that was cut off the appliance.

 

[pipsters]

Pips terms, how is the Schumacher charger working?

It worked fine. I only did that one vise and battery charge though. I would put it head and shoulders above the HF one.

 

[NHBandit]

Hey Pipsters and everyone else reading, I have a 12" piece of railroad track that is very rusted. Do you think that power supply from newegg that you listed will cut it?

If that's the only piece you have to do and you want to remove the rust on the cheap get a plastic windowbox in the garden section of your local Wally World. Fill it with water and add a jar of molasses from the food isle. Let sit for a couple days and the rust will come right off with a wire brush. Do this outdoors. It stinks.

 

[shephd]

It worked fine. I only did that one vise and battery charge though. I would put it head and shoulders above the HF one.

Thanks, and good on you for reading through the auto-mistake!

 

[oldtractors]

I have had better luck using flat sheet metal instead of re-bar for the electrodes. The process is line-of-sight and the more surface area the better. I currently have flat plates, probably 12x6x 14 gauge, one on each side of the tank.
My tank is a 250 gallon plastic tote with the top cut out of it. I has had the same water in it for 3 years now. I do have to add about 20-40 gallons of fresh water each year because of evaporation. However, there is also a lot of nastiness in the bottom of the tank at this point.

I use a standard 6 amp battery charger. It is 40 years old, but is similar to what was being talked about above. Here is a link to one that should work from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009IBJBM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

There really isn't any need to over think it or try to come up with a bigger power supply. The amperage you will see has to do with the surface area of the part more than anything else. I will see 3 amps or so with large parts.

Here is a picture of my setup.

 

[Kakivak]

Anyone ever try a tool battery charger? Dewalt, Milwaukee, skil, ryobi, etc.?