need help on a shed build

[copmagnet82]

Hello all,

So I need some help with building a shed on an slope. It'll be a 16x12 due to regulations in my county and the costs involved if it's more than 200 sq ft. I really want to have a concrete floor, so I was thinking about putting down a footer, building up the foundation with cinder blocks, and then filling the floor with concrete. I'd use rebars in the footer, and to tie the cinder blocks to the footer to make it all as solid as possible. So, that is the game plan for now.

Now, here's my question/dilemma:

Frost line in my county is 42". Because my structure in less then 200 sq ft the county doesn't care about what I do and how I build it. I really don't feel like digging 42" on the low side in the back yard, but at the same time I don't want the structure to "fall apart". At the same time, my old home was build on a slab and from what I remember, the builder was not digging 42" down; they just poured the slab and put the walls up. I'm wondering, if I basically dig and pour the footer, digging let's say 18"-24" on the low side and about 36" on the high side, or even step the footer up on the high side so it's 18"-24", and then use the cinder blocks for 24"-48" foundation, if that will be sufficient and not cause me any headaches down the road?

Thoughts??? Ideas???

 

[73RR]

First question is.....do you want the slab at the low elevation or the high elevation....or somewhere in between?
Second question...post frame or stick frame?

 

[kbs2244]

Something you might want to check is if a concrete floor will make it taxable even if it is under 200 SF

 

[Franz1.0©]

Portable or stationary?
Taxable or Tax EXEMPT?
Permit or Bypass Permit & Zoning?

BUDGET?

Location- Outside AnnArundell County Maryland only.

 

[tjdux]

Why not just bring in fill dirt level the ground then pour then concrete pad on level soil instead of trying to level it with concrete and/or cinder blocks...

Dirt is cheap compared to concrete in my neck of the woods. Leveling and setting the drainage away from the pad kills 2 birds instead of worries about water getting trapped in the underside of the cinder block wall.

Last summer I built a 14x12ft garden shed and I just placed it on a 3.5 deep pad with rebar reinforcement. I live in Nebraska and the frost line here is at least 36 inches but for a building this small a full foundation isn't really required. Sure I may have some settling and cracked concrete in the probably far future but also good chance I won't.



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[copmagnet82]

First question is.....do you want the slab at the low elevation or the high elevation....or somewhere in between?
Second question...post frame or stick frame?

The way my backyard slopes it has to be at the high elevation. Essentially, imagine a ski slope, you're going down the slope and walk into a garage that's in the way does that make sense? I don't know how to explain it better.

I want a stick frame.

 

[copmagnet82]

Something you might want to check is if a concrete floor will make it taxable even if it is under 200 SF

I'll have to pay taxes on it no matter if it's wood, concrete, or gravel. In Illinois, when you take a dump you get taxed on it.

 

[copmagnet82]

Portable or stationary?
Taxable or Tax EXEMPT?
Permit or Bypass Permit & Zoning?

BUDGET?

Location- Outside AnnArundell County Maryland only.

Stationary.
Taxable.
Permit.
Don't really have a budget. It is what it is. Just want to get it done right.

 

[copmagnet82]

Why not just bring in fill dirt level the ground then pour then concrete pad on level soil instead of trying to level it with concrete and/or cinder blocks...

I would have to bring in about 2-3 feet of dirt to make it level with the high side and my fence is about 5-6 feet away from where the back wall would be, so it just doesn't seem practical in my situation.

 

[RVDan]

Hmmm. Around here if it needs a permit, the city will dictate how it's done. I'd just use a floating slab. Forget the footers and just let the building move.

I have a bunch of 98 square foot sheds, no permit required if they're under a hundred lol

 

[tjdux]

Stationary.
Taxable.
Permit.
Don't really have a budget. It is what it is. Just want to get it done right.

If you require a buikding permit have you talked to the local planning office? Setbacks and code can kill these projects in a hurry. You dont want to pour concrete and find you can't even use it.

If budget isnt a deal indont see why not level it. Is the fence your property line? Whats behind the fence? Also could you replace fence with retaining wall? Could you post up a few pics where you're planning to place the shed?

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[Franz1.0©]

I'll have to pay taxes on it no matter if it's wood, concrete, or gravel. In Illinois, when you take a dump you get taxed on it.

NOT necessarily.

Look around, are there Salvation Army drop boxes and covered cart return containments in area shopping centers? How about fabric hoop structures and canopies?

The Law and Rules can be your friend.. No Politician ever wrote a Law he didn't leave a hole in for himself and his friends.

NotAbuilding, featured monthly in Better Crates & Cartons, THE magazine for the homeless.

Guaranteed to drive Assessors & Code Compliance nuts.

 

[Dirtydan69]

I'll have to pay taxes on it no matter if it's wood, concrete, or gravel. In Illinois, when you take a dump you get taxed on it.

That's true only if they know about it.

 

[tjdux]

That's true only if they know about it.

Here in Nebraska do you know who is suposed to report those things when you love in a rural area? Your friendly post man.

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[couch67]

A photo, sketch or site plan might help with getting you more accurate feedback. One option would be to build a retaining wall so you can flatten an area for the slab, and build your shed sideways on the property.


I built a 12x16 last summer, although on flat land. Here's my build:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340070

couch

 

[copmagnet82]

If you require a buikding permit have you talked to the local planning office? Setbacks and code can kill these projects in a hurry. You dont want to pour concrete and find you can't even use it.

If budget isnt a deal indont see why not level it. Is the fence your property line? Whats behind the fence? Also could you replace fence with retaining wall? Could you post up a few pics where you're planning to place the shed?

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Yes, already spoke with the planning office.

The fence is my property line.

I'm working on the pictures

 

[copmagnet82]

Here in Nebraska do you know who is suposed to report those things when you love in a rural area? Your friendly post man.

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When I was building a patio, within 3 months I had an inspector and an assessor knock on my door and here's our conversation:

-"Hello sir, are you the owner of the property"
-"Yes, I am, how can I help you?"
-"Well, according to google maps, you are working on a project in your backyard. We would like to take a look at it."
-"sure, no problem"

 

[copmagnet82]

A photo, sketch or site plan might help with getting you more accurate feedback. One option would be to build a retaining wall so you can flatten an area for the slab, and build your shed sideways on the property.


I built a 12x16 last summer, although on flat land. Here's my build:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340070

couch

Looks good. This is exactly what I want, except for no windows and side door, and regular garage door

 

[copmagnet82]

Hopefully the pictures work. I know the quality is not the best, but should work for that.

Below is the profile view of the way I want the shed to be.

View media item 68077

Second picture is a bird's eye view. The arrow indicates where the "big gate" is at, so I can drive a car in there if needed. Red triangle indicates where no structures can be built due to county regulations.

View media item 68076

Again, thanks for all the help

 

[73RR]

Have you given any thought to a sea cargo container?
A small concrete pad under the front and a stem wall at the back and you're in business...assuming that you have 8'- at the side of the house for the delivery truck.

 

[lakeroadster]

You need to go below the frost line for the footer if you want to ensure there won't be future issues. That's the nature of the beast.

If the site was level you could do a monolithic pour, like couch67 did. But being so close to the property line... on an inclined site, that's not going to work.

 

[copmagnet82]

Have you given any thought to a sea cargo container?
A small concrete pad under the front and a stem wall at the back and you're in business...assuming that you have 8'- at the side of the house for the delivery truck.

The association that I live in won't allow that. Plus I don't think I would want a sea cargo container in my back yard

 

[copmagnet82]

You need to go below the frost line for the footer if you want to ensure there won't be future issues. That's the nature of the beast.

If the site was level you could do a monolithic pour, like couch67 did. But being so close to the property line... on an inclined site, that's not going to work.

Yeah... so you guys don't think that a "hybrid" of monolithic pour and a foundation that is tied into the floor would work, huh? Essentially, the back wall foundation would act as a retaining wall for the poured floor. It's almost seems like an overkill to dig that deep for a shed

What if I set cinder blocks directly on crushed gravel as opposed to a footer, sort of the way patio base is done, fill the blocks with concrete and use rebars to tie them together and with the floor? ...hmmm... even when I'm typing it, it doesn't sound like a good idea, but I figured I'll throw this idea out there .

 

[TractorJeff]

Up here Zoning rents an airplane to do fly overs in the early spring before the trees leaf out! GOOGLE Maps is an every couple of years photo, not good enough for them!

 

[tjdux]

Up here Zoning rents an airplane to do fly overs in the early spring before the trees leaf out! GOOGLE Maps is an every couple of years photo, not good enough for them!

There are pro versions of google maps mafe by other companies that update every 2 to 6 months also. My city plannong office uses one. When i buikt my shed they showed me the view of my house and ive actuslly been there to look at it a few times over the years and its always an image less than 6 months old. I can tell by the junk/projects in he yard and also seanal/garden.



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[tjdux]

Yeah... so you guys don't think that a "hybrid" of monolithic pour and a foundation that is tied into the floor would work, huh? Essentially, the back wall foundation would act as a retaining wall for the poured floor. It's almost seems like an overkill to dig that deep for a shed

What if I set cinder blocks directly on crushed gravel as opposed to a footer, sort of the way patio base is done, fill the blocks with concrete and use rebars to tie them together and with the floor? ...hmmm... even when I'm typing it, it doesn't sound like a good idea, but I figured I'll throw this idea out there .

So just to clairify for me.... You want to dig down a footer foundation a few feet below grade and construct a cinder block wall from that point below grade up to or maybe (recomend) above grade a few inches. Then back fill that cinder block box with fill soil. Then level the soil and pour the pad on that?

Or possibly it sounds like you want to back fill the cinder block box entirely with concrete?

Either way is structurally fine in my non engineering opinion. A few thoughts...That much concrete is going to be very expensive. Hence the cliche dirt cheap i would fill with dirt and rent a compactor/tamper machine.

Second i would do the foundation wall all the way around not just on the low elevation side if you're going to do one at all.

I think you probably have this figured out well and all our opinons ate casuing second guessing on your end.

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[tjdux]

Also are you planning to park a car in the shed? You may want 6 inch deep floor or good high psi concrete at 4 inches

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[Dirtydan69]

I installed or I should say had installed a prebuilt Amish shed (10x14) on my sloped lot at a house I rented before I moved here. The shed came with a floor and on runners. We leveled it in place with their fork lift. One Front corner on the ground the other a couple inches up and the rear anywhere from 9-12". It worked quite well for the 18 months I was there. I did have to adjust it a couple times as it settled.

 

[copmagnet82]

So just to clairify for me.... You want to dig down a footer foundation a few feet below grade and construct a cinder block wall from that point below grade up to or maybe (recomend) above grade a few inches. Then back fill that cinder block box with fill soil. Then level the soil and pour the pad on that?

exactly build a box few inches above grade to level the difference of about 2 feet between front and back of the shed

Or possibly it sounds like you want to back fill the cinder block box entirely with concrete?

no, level with dirt, then gravel, then concrete, compact between layers

Either way is structurally fine in my non engineering opinion. A few thoughts...That much concrete is going to be very expensive. Hence the cliche dirt cheap i would fill with dirt and rent a compactor/tamper machine.

that's the game plan

Second i would do the foundation wall all the way around not just on the low elevation side if you're going to do one at all.

yes, that was my game plan

I think you probably have this figured out well and all our opinons are casuing second guessing on your end.

no, not at all, I just want as much feedback as possible to prevent an "engineering" disaster

 

[tjdux]

Yeah i think when i first read your post i didnt quite get all those details but i cant see any problems with your plan.

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