Need help preventing flooding from sloped driveway

[Moxie]

Hello,

I wrote in a question a couple of weeks ago but didn't receive any responses. Maybe the title of my old post was confusing, so I'll try again. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335285

Here's the tl;dr summary: Below-ground garage is flooded from rain flowing down driveway. Channel drain has no exit pipe so fills up fast. How do we get the water out? Can we do it ourselves without too much money?

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Long version:

We recently moved into a 1950s house with a single-car garage at the bottom of a sloped driveway. The garage is lower than street level. It has a problem with rain or snow melt running down the driveway, then flooding under the door, creating puddles that extend to the far end of the garage. The wooden door was also rotting at the bottom.

I fixed up the door and surrounding trim, added weatherstripping, new bottom seal, and threshold seal. However, water was still leaking around the sides of the door. There's a short trench drain at the foot of the driveway so I dug as much dirt out of it as I could, though I couldn't find any drainpipe opening inside.

We had a big rainstorm recently and I watched what was going on: the channel "drain" filled up completely, then the water rose against the garage door until it mounted 4-5 inches high on the bottom of the door. We could have kept a few goldfish there! The water has nowhere else to go but into the garage, because there are concrete retaining walls on either side of the driveway. Over an hour, the water gradually sank back into the channel drain.

My husband and I concluded that further sealing the garage door was not the answer. The water has to go somewhere. But if we managed to run a pipe from the channel drain, where could the water go? Everywhere on our property is higher. Can we install a pump somewhere?

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[lakeroadster]

Welcome

Photo's... please post some that show the lye of the land surrounding the building, where the water is getting in, etc.

It would also be nice to add your location to your profile data.

A drain across the floor in front of the door and a sump pump might be a good addition.

 

[Moxie]

Right you are , I'll run out and take some after breakfast

 

[AnthonyJ124]

Sounds like you need to route the channel drain into a catch basin and pump the water up and out of the garage entrance.

Placement of the pit, wiring of the pump, and plumbing could be slightly above DIY skill... Or not depending on your ambition.

Google "driveway catch basin sump pump" and you'll get a lot of information including videos.

 

[readhead]

How about a sump just inside the garage to drain the trench drain into. Install a pump in the sump and daylight the drain somewhere in the yard. It would be similar to the systems used in basement perimeter drains.

 

[Astro-t]

Your driveway looks the same level as the garage floor! You may want to cut the asphalt back and pitch it away from the front of the garage to a new drain. Than you can take the drain pipe through the wall and out to the back yard....If not you need some kind of sump pump set up.

 

[tpierce]

The sump inside the garage is the way to go. My daughter has the exact type of sloped driveway to lower level garage. There is a trench drain the full width of the driveway, tied into a sump. They also added a secondary trench drain inside the garage as a secondary defense. It also is tied into the sump, where it is pumped out into the pvc downspout line which drains to street.
Be aware though that even that system may not be effective if both drains are not kept clean and cleared regularly of debris. Don't forget to keep the crock clean too, and regularly check that the pump and float are working.
My daughter and son in law recently had a foot of water in basement because he had neglected keeping everything clear. Lesson learned.

 

[Moxie]

Thanks so much for all the responses!! I am reading them carefully-- meanwhile, I've uploaded a photo so the rest of you know what I'm talking about.

 

[manwithtools]

That trench drain should span the entire width of the driveway between the retaining walls. tpierce is 100% correct with his comments, not sure you need the second trench drain inside the garage though. If the sump pump is in a pit inside the garage any water the would ever get in the garage should drain to the pit if it is placed properly.

 

[SALIV8]

Yup that trench drain needs to span the width of the driveway from the retaining walls to the other retaining walls.

I would double and triple check to see where that existing drain is tied into. Could it full of mud and leaves? Maybe you can just extend the existing trench drain the full width if the drain pipe is the correct size and working properly?

I would doubt the original builders just stubbed in that drain with a pipe to nowhere. That just wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Moxie]

Thank you again, everyone! A light bulb went on when it was suggested that the sump pump could be inside the garage. I have a temporary solution, at least.

There's an old laundry sink right inside the garage door by the leaky corner. I can put a sump pump under it, run a hose through that stupid gap at the edge of the garage door, and route water from the channel drain into the sink through some sort of filter to keep dirt and leaves out. We don't park in the garage so the hose won't get dislodged. It will look bad but at least our stuff will stay dry. Hopefully I can find some sort of water sensor that will detect when the channel is full. A little scared of trying to cut a pit for a sump in the garage, as that side of the garage may sit on solid rock.
[Edit: I found the following product https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006AU4L4U/?tag=atomicindus08-20 which may let us run this kludge until we can make a proper pit.]

As a long term solution, I did the search that AnthonyJ124 suggested and came up with the following handy video:

Hopefully we'll be able to extend that drain across the driveway, then cut a little channel for a pipe to connect the drain to the pump in the garage, which will still empty into the laundry sink. Does that sound like a good idea?

We dug some more today to look for a drain pipe in that trench. We went way down and found lots of roots and dirt but no pipe. The house was built in kind of a crazy way so it's very possible that there never was any pipe.

 

[Jay H 237]

How deep were you able to dig in that drain so far?

Most of those drains are normally less that 2' deep, even as shallow as several inches.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I noticed you mention the drain filled up with water. Is it draining properly or does it hold the water only to let it away slowly like the drainis plugged somewhere ?

If it's plugged, you need to rememdy that first of all. ...well I guess that's what you are working on now ?

How about an update photo od work in progress ?

 

[Kevin54]

You mention that you DON'T park in the garage.

We don't park in the garage so the hose won't get dislodged.

Have you gave a thought about having that complete area filled in? Take out the garage door and have either a solid wall or a block wall put up, sealed, and then have the drive taken out along with the side walls and have it backfilled? THEN......if you want a garage, figure out how you can have one above ground that you can enjoy.

The reason I say that is that no matter what you do to try and stop the water, without getting into a really big expense with a new French drain cut in, the drive redone so it has a slight hump in front of the French drain to slow the water down, and inside sump, blah, blah, blah, for a garage that you don't use anyways.....I'd just do away with the garage opening.

Can you show a better pic of the house from further back so we can see how things actually are from a distance?

 

[strutaeng]

OP, I have similar problem in my house: the driveway slopes into the home. My garage was converted by PO and the slab of the house sits about 8" from the lowest point. I get about 4" of ponding water during heavy rains, but my subgrade is free-draining and pooling quickly sinks in. I do have lower elevation at the rear of my property, but it is like 100' away, so installing a drain would be costly.

I have an existing large carport that I'm planing on installing a gutter and taking advantage of the elevation difference to drain rainwater to the street curb.

This is probably not what you were looking for, but what about building a carport, at least some portion of the driveway (probably limited by your setbacks) will help with rainwater.

Goo Luck!

 

[tonycastec]

Had a similar issue. Used "Permeable Concrete"aka Previous Concrete.
Mixed and poured myself. Added some nylon or PP fibers. Works perfectly for 5 years so fr. Looks awful! Commonly used in Europe.Not much interest in USA -yet.It is ' just ' normal concrete mix w/o sand but plus special latex adhesive/bonding agent. I also mixed in junk/old latex paint which seemed t help.
Ravelling is an issue for a few months after the pour.Look on You tube for more.

 

[brownbagg]

It would also be nice to add your location to your profile data.

why?

 

[jhelrey]

For a temp fix, you could put a sump pump with an internal float switch in the corner. Garden hose right over the wall.

 

[krcoomer]

I have worked in houses with similar problems. In one, the homeowner had an asphalt "speed bump" placed between the drain and his garage door. This held back the water until it could drain out. Of course his drain was not plugged up. I agree with others that a drain was not put there for cosmetic purposes and that it is likely stopped up somewhere. I have been in a garage where the drain was directed to a sump and discharged away from the house.

I noticed you mentioned draining the sump into your laundry tray. I would not do this for several reasons. Where I am located it is illegal to drain groundwater into the sewer system. If you are on septic this would also be a bad idea as it would cause an imbalance and overload in your tank. Also whatever grit and gravel is sucked up by the pump would then be going into your drain system creating a potential for a costly (and usually untimely) clog in your household plumbing.

 

[MoonRise]

Yup that trench drain needs to span the width of the driveway from the retaining walls to the other retaining walls.

I would double and triple check to see where that existing drain is tied into. Could it full of mud and leaves? Maybe you can just extend the existing trench drain the full width if the drain pipe is the correct size and working properly?

I would doubt the original builders just stubbed in that drain with a pipe to nowhere. That just wouldn't make any sense.

Pretty much this.

All except for the part about the builder doing something that "makes no sense".

I've seen the result of a whole bunch of things that 'builders' (framers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers, masons, tile guys, hardwood floor guys, drywall guys, I think I've covered just about all the trades there ) did that made no sense, made things worse, and/or were just plain stupid.

example: 'Builder' tried to say that a clothes dryer vent wasn't needed at all (try again buddy), and when he was told that was not acceptable he then 'proposed' to just run a dryer vent stub into the basement. Umm, nope, try again (heat, humidity and LINT going right into the basement? NFW! ).

Back to the OP's question.

The drain grate in the drive should go the full width of the driveway, and have drain pipe(s) that take the collected water that ran down the driveway towards the garage away from the house. That may involve putting in a 'catch basin' or a 'drain pit' (aka 'dry well') for the drain pipe(s) from the drain gate to drain into. Possibly a pump to take that drain water and pump it to a different location on the property if you can't just let gravity do the water transfer.

And as to running a sump pump (or other pump) and putting that water down a plumbing drain (you mentioned laundry sink in the garage), nope. Not allowed in most locations to take 'storm water' and put it into the drain pipes (whether sewer system or septic system).

As to why someone's location matters, because possible solutions that would work fine for Texas or Florida (no snow or freezing really) might not work too well in Minnesota or northern Maine.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Here is the CORRECT way to solve the problem, long term WITHOUT a pump.

Remove the driveway, full width, for about 8-10' in front of the garage. Gig down AT LEAST 4', 6' would be better. Lay in commercial grade landscape cloth making certain to cover all side with enough extra out the top that you can fold it over and cover the hole.

Fill with 2-3' of crushed concrete. Compact that as best you can. Then 2-3' of 3/4" crushed limestone, but do this in 4-6" lifts and compact well in between each lift. Last a layer of stone dust, enough to bring it up level with the grade AFTER you install the hard surface.

Either use brick pavers or some kind of permeable, REMOVABLE hard surface. It should be removable, because in 5-10 years you will get some settling. Remove the surface, add more stone dust, compact and level.

You may have to add a trench drain because during hard rain falls the water can not get through the cracks in the pavers very fast. I have puddles on my pavers while it is raining but they are gone within a couple hours after it stops.


Not cheap, not easy but it will handle your water problem for a long, LONG time !

 

[Rod N]

Some good ideas here.

Every time I see one of these below grade garages I think "why?"!

I wonder if yours was to code back in the day.

 

[dadsEH]

Carport.

 

[Moxie]

Eureka!!!!!!!

There were a whole lot of great responses over the weekend.

Earlier this week, we excavated the drain down about 18” , about twice as deep as the point where the concrete walls stop, without finding a pipe. I took some more photos and was about to send my response when I decided to test the drain to answer NUTTSGT's question

I noticed you mention the drain filled up with water. Is it draining properly or does it hold the water only to let it away slowly like the drainis plugged somewhere ?

I filled the drain with 10 gallons of water and timed how long it took to empty. Interestingly enough, it took only a couple of minutes for the top half to drain out, but the water was still standing in the bottom half, 30 minutes later. I looked closer.

Strangely, the standing water stopped where the concrete began. Could it be a pipe???

So I felt all along the sides of the drain under where the concrete ended and found a spot that felt just a little softer [can you see it in the photo?] I poked at it with the point of a pickax, and found a small hollow space that must be the opening of a pipe! We had dug right past it.

So THAT makes things a lot easier. I have no idea where the pipe exits, but if we can clean it out, maybe our problem is solved. I was doubtful because so many things around our house were installed in such a sloppy way.

That said, we need to dispose of between 30-40 gallons of water every storm, quickly enough to keep it from leaking into the garage. There were a lot of great, creative solutions. Will discuss in next reply.

 

[Moxie]

Here's a round up of the possible solutions to flooding from sloped driveway:

- Extending the storm drain across the driveway sounds more reasonable now that we have a pipe, though why didn't the builders do this in the first place? It might be that they hit an edge of the giant rock shelf that underlies our house. If that is the case, we can’t afford to mess with it either.

-The hump of asphalt between the garage door and channel drain sounds easiest, especially if we can get the pipe cleared.

- Permeable driveway is an awesome idea that I didn't think of before. Will keep it in mind when our driveway needs replacement in a few years. Like this idea a lot!

- I didn't think about the problem with disposing of stormwater in our city sewer system (even through a sieve) so we would have to check the code; a good argument against pumping water into the garage sink

- However, as another temp solution I guess we might be able to pump it up the driveway to run down the street

- Carport to prevent rain from falling on the driveway is also a clever idea, though I'm not sure what the rule would be about setbacks (we're sitting on a 6000 sq ft corner lot in a high population density area). Also, hard to find a carport that's both attractive and affordable.

- The suggestion about filling in the driveway, and turning the garage into a basement is very intriguing, but unfortunately way beyond our budget. Right now the garage is all our storage, since we don't have a basement or attic storage. We need it for bikes, stroller, lawnmower, etc. plus a workbench in the back. Finally, we just had the retaining walls repaired as they had been stupidly built without any drainage and were falling apart.

Plus, without a garage, how could I write in to this great forum?

Wow-- thanks so much, everyone!! You really came through with some great ideas. I'm feeling hopeful that we can beat the water problem and really make our garage into a useful space.

 

[manwithtools]

- Extending the storm drain across the driveway sounds more reasonable now that we have a pipe, though why didn't the builders do this in the first place? It might be that they hit an edge of the giant rock shelf that underlies our house. If that is the case, we can’t afford to mess with it either.

.

This was built decades ago. The builder had a budget and it probably worked okay for the first owners for several years before they moved away and the trench became plugged with the typical organics. You NEED to make that drain extend all the way across the driveway for maximum effectiveness. Now that you found the drain pipe, that is a no brainier - bedrock or not. Rent a demo saw or a concrete saw and open up that channel to reach both retaining walls (as close as you can get)

 

[theoldwizard1]

That said, we need to dispose of between 30-40 gallons of water every storm, quickly enough to keep it from leaking into the garage.

Get a dirty water submersible sump pump from HF. Let it sit on top of a couple of bricks. You will have to hold the float switch up so that the pump runs.

Moves a lot of water in a short period of time.

 

[Markfothebeast]

I had a similar problem. Except mine was not impeded by concrete or tar. I dug a 40" deep x 2' wide trench all the way around the area where the water build up happened. I put in 2 dump truck loads of rock with a cloth covered drain tube above a layer of river rock at a slope which drained water away from the area. This is known as a French Drain. In my situation the water run off from the roof was the actual culprit. Adding gutters and sloping drain tube away from the area helped. Never had water again.

However, seeing as the water is coming down the driveway, breaking apart the concrete and routing a drainage system with a grate for drainage seems like a more permanent solution rather than having to use a pump. I've seen similar homes that have that type of drainage system that run in front of the garage.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[davidhansen]

I was going to give you the trench and pump opinion as well, but you seemed to get it several times! I'll just add a note saying that I hope it works out for you. Sounds like the flooding was doing quite a bit of damage- what a pain. Good luck!