Need Help With the Different Proto Brands

[Lesserstore]

I know that Proto had several brands: Proto, obviously, then Challenger, Fleet, P&C, and Penens. I know Proto was the highest tier, but what about the other brands, where did they stack up? I'm used to seeing either a good, better, best arrangement or an encomy line and a standard line. And why so many brands?

 

[Lesserstore]

Thanks!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think lugz has the exact timeline on it, but penens was the corporate parent, challenger was a sub brand established around 1940, though not used much until late 40s. Sets were marketed under penens, fleet challenger and plomb/proto p&c(acquired around 1940). Also supplied sets to retailers such as sears(circle u) wards (speedmaster) pep boys (artcraft) mostly late 40s early 50s.

 

[Provincial]

My impression was always that Challenger became Proto tools with less warranty. That is how they lowered the price. The tools seemed to be of the same quality.

 

[Lesserstore]

OTG: I think lugz has the exact timeline on it, but penens was the corporate parent, challenger was a sub brand established around 1940, though not used much until late 40s. Sets were marketed under penens, fleet challenger and plomb/proto p&c(acquired around 1940). Also supplied sets to retailers such as sears(circle u) wards (speedmaster) pep boys (artcraft) mostly late 40s early 50s.

Provincial: My impression was always that Challenger became Proto tools with less warranty. That is how they lowered the price. The tools seemed to be of the same quality.

Thanks guys, I got all the information I need. I recently came across a bunch of sockets that are Proto and their other brands.

 

[d42jeep]

There is information on Twertsy’s site. You may have to establish an account to view.
http://www.toolarchives.com/node/268
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This topic (I'll just call it 'Plomb Empire and its long complex quagmire of subsidiaries and brands') is not one that can be waded into this lightly and without being explicit about dates. For beginners, "Challenger" was not acquired. The "Challenger" name is actually older than the "Proto" name (1948) and older than "PENENS"/"Fleet", too, which was established in 1942 as a contracting arm of the company that didn't start commercial sales until the late 1940's. "Challenger" dates to 1939, when the Plomb Tool Company used it for the first time to market a 3/8-inch drive socket set. For another example, there never was a Proto Tool Company. "Proto" was also a Plomb Tool Company brand. The Plomb Tool Company never changed its name to the Proto Tool Company. The Plomb Tool Company changed its name to Pendleton Tool Industries, Inc. in 1957. When Ingersoll-Rand bought the whole shebang in the 60's, they made it a division of IR called Proto Tools. That division was bought by Stanley. All of the various brands and subsidiaries (e.g., Proto, PENENS/Fleet, P&C, Challenger, etc.) belonged to Plomb, then PTII. Frankly, I don't know squat about the quality of any of them or how they were marketed after the mid 1950's.

EDIT: We had developed an excellent, detailed timeline on the old TA. If Todd was able to save it, I am sure he plans to re-post it on TA 2.0 at some point.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

On one paper , he said the name Proto came from the Canadian subsidiary. And yes I've also read about some woman worker coming up with it on another paper. Both seemed very sure. Maybe both were right.

 

[DadsTools]

I have a mixed-brand set of larger combination wrenches my Dad gave me back in the day. I believe they were 1960s. Among the lot is both a Proto and a Challenger. There's a distinct difference in them that the Proto has a thicker oval beam and the Challenger a thinner rectangular beam, essentially having less metal in it. Both appear to be made with the same tool steel, but who knows. I've seen sockets marked differently, but I don't recall if there was much difference between them.

 

[Lesserstore]

Thanks guys this is a lot more responses than I thought I would get.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

These are Canadian made tools. The later '80s Challenger Proto wrenches only have a different names. Earlier ones, the Challenger finish chrome was heavy and shiny, but the under finishing wasn't as well done a matte finish of a Proto . I have Penens combinations as well, they are short , squareish, with the size heavily stamped into the open end. Very different than the Challenger Proto blanks.

I picked up a set of 3/8" Challenger metric deep sockets in the late'70s. They had only one dimple and a * on that side. No lead in chamfer either on the drive end.

 

[Lesserstore]

I have this Plomb 5249 ratchet and the gear is wobbly. Is it supposed to be this way or is it 75 years of wear?

 

[LNKMK8]

http://alloy-artifacts.org/proto-empire.html

 

[d42jeep]

Here are some Challenger marked wrenches followed by some Challlenger by Proto wrenches. Just to muddy the waters a bit the last picture is of some Tru-test wrenches.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These are marked challenger on one side and mfd. Penens on the other.

 

[d42jeep]

Proto wrenches early to late. Proto LA, Proto Mfd and Proto Professional.
-Don

 

[Lesserstore]

I have a few Tru Test sockets, were they lower quality than Proto, because the ones I have seem kind of chunky. I also have a breaker bar that doesn't look like anything proto made. Proto on left Tru Test on right.

 

[Plombob]

I have this Plomb 5249 ratchet and the gear is wobbly. Is it supposed to be this way or is it 75 years of wear?

Probably worn out. Get a repair kit from Proto. It will fit the Plomb.

 

[d42jeep]

These Plomb ratchets all needed repair and I used mostly parts from Proto donor ratchets.
-Don

 

[Lesserstore]

These Plomb ratchets all needed repair and I used mostly parts from Proto donor ratchets.
-Don

That's probably what I'll do. I looked up the price of a rebuild kit, it was way more than what I paid for the ratchet.

 

[d42jeep]

It’s much more likely that dual marked PR∇T∇ And PL∇MB T∇∇L C∇. tools were made in 1949.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7497933&postcount=15

-Don

 

[outofbounds]

Found this ratchet at a garage sale today for the equivalent of about $0.30 (when extrapolated with a hand-picked box of about 50 items for $15.) Interested to learn that its part of the Plomb/Proto heritage. The interesting thing to me is that they probably spent more money trying to make it a little different (Notice selector isn't recessed) than it could have been worth, especially to sell for a lower cost.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

They made a bunch of those ratchets and sold them under different names, even supplied them to wards and firestone.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Plomb tool company family tree-



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[Lesserstore]

Plomb tool company family tree-



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Thanks that's very helpful. Where did it come from by the way?

 

[Smokeshow69]

Thanks that's very helpful. Where did it come from by the way?

I knew someone would ask me... I think it came from the plomb Facebook page but I am not entirely sure? It was important enough that I have it saved on my phone!


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