Need PEX help

[Walkers]

I am in the process of building a guest house and room addition. I just got my underground plumbing inspection, and am almost ready to pour concrete. I am not going to use the contractor who helped me with my underground plumbing as he lied about charges. So I am going to do the topout plumbing myself. It is not a huge job, bathroom, kitchenette and couple of hose bibs. I did not run underground water pipes though, and am planning to use pex in the walls/attic. The only problem is that I have never used pex. I have run miles of copper, black iron, PE gas pipe, just no pex water pipe.
I am looking to learn what I need to know to run it through my guest house, and what tool options are going to work best for a single project. Any advice is appreciated.

thanks,

 

[allinon72]

Recommend pex-a expansion, which seems to be the favorite these days. It will required the expansion tool. As far as working with it, it's far easier than any other traditional plumbing method.

 

[RivennHewn]

Do your self a favor, and buy the Milwaukee Pex tool.

 

[CoogarXR]

I have only used Pex B, with the crimp rings, and it's plenty easy too.

 

[cgrutt]

No experience with Pex A looks like biggest advantage is better flow (less restrictive fittings), more flexible tube, higher burst rating (mainly applicable in cold climates). Pex B is widely available in the big box stores and flow restrictions can be offset by upsizing (from 1/2 to 3/4 for example). I've worked with Pex B on a number of projects. Prefer the solid crimp rings over the ear type connectors. Believe my crimper was about $100 (which I bought a while ago) and has handled everything I needed it for.

 

[dmittz]

Pex is much easier than copper, just be sure to familiarize yourself with local plumbing codes. I also personally like to use just one brand for the pex, fittings, crimp/clinch rings, shut-off's etc and the manufacturers test with all their own products (versus mix and match).
I also in my workshop I personally chose to do all 'home run' style plumbing with a manifold block so I did not have any fittings (potential failure points) inside walls etc...but that was just a personal preference.

 

[mike93lx]

flow restrictions can be offset by upsizing

If you have a lot of fittings, the smaller sizing in crimp can matter, but half the point of pex is to not have tons of fittings. A few fittings doesn't make the whole run act like a smaller size though

 

[Citation]

It seems like most of the good pex installed I've seen use a manifold and direct runs to each point of use. I like that idea as it can result in hot water getting to the remote facets faster. I also really like that you can bend pex around corners. When I ran a new exterior faucet I made only 1 joint despite having to make a number of turns. It's really easy to work with.

 

[DGersic]

I am in the process of building a guest house and room addition. I just got my underground plumbing inspection, and am almost ready to pour concrete. I am not going to use the contractor who helped me with my underground plumbing as he lied about charges. So I am going to do the topout plumbing myself. It is not a huge job, bathroom, kitchenette and couple of hose bibs. I did not run underground water pipes though, and am planning to use pex in the walls/attic. The only problem is that I have never used pex. I have run miles of copper, black iron, PE gas pipe, just no pex water pipe.
I am looking to learn what I need to know to run it through my guest house, and what tool options are going to work best for a single project. Any advice is appreciated.

thanks,

My re-pipe the house with PEX thread may be helpful to you.

Plumbing Project - Re-Pipe the House

I’ve put a few pieces of this in other threads, but thought I’d do one with everything in it. Along the way, there’ll be a few WTF moments, and maybe a few useful lessons learned. I’ve been thinking about this project for about 20 years. Always too busy with work, life, and whatever. But I...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[DGersic]

I am in the process of building a guest house and room addition. I just got my underground plumbing inspection, and am almost ready to pour concrete. I am not going to use the contractor who helped me with my underground plumbing as he lied about charges. So I am going to do the topout plumbing myself. It is not a huge job, bathroom, kitchenette and couple of hose bibs. I did not run underground water pipes though, and am planning to use pex in the walls/attic. The only problem is that I have never used pex. I have run miles of copper, black iron, PE gas pipe, just no pex water pipe.
I am looking to learn what I need to know to run it through my guest house, and what tool options are going to work best for a single project. Any advice is appreciated.

thanks,

Also here, when I was researching PEX before starting.

PEX confusion - is this just marketing?

I’m planning to replace the plumbing here in my house, because it’s a ******* conglomeration of 1950 galvanized, 1970s copper, and some DIY **** done by somebody who should be kept away from tools. It seems that everyone is going PEX, and researching It, it seems like a good direction to go...

www.garagejournal.com

There is a lot of information available on PEX. Much of it is misleading, or wrong.

IMHO, PEX is pretty easy to work with. If you can do any other type of plumbing, you can do PEX.

 

[Justin James]

Redid our water line a few years ago ( builder used the worst plumber ever) with the Upnor Pex A and would never do copper again. Bought the tool and went to work, very forgiving system, though parts may not be locally available.

 

[nadogail]

Lowest price almost certainly guarantees Lowest Quality. Try to avoid the trap of always choosing the lowest possible price, those few cents you saved by substituting a lower quality product don't begin to pay for the costs of reworking a job.

 

[rayra]

Expansion tool is a faster process, with a little experience. Small job crimping works ok. You can rent the expansion tool for about the same day rate as the manual crimping tool costs to own.

Treat the job like any other rough-in work, get the bulk of the runs laid out, then go back and do all your connection work in one go (after some experimentation on some leftover bits.


Just an aside for folks messing with old established plastic plumbing, the pre-PEX gray butyl pipe is NOT the same diameters as equivalent PEX and you cannot mate the two with just PEX fittings. Sharkbite makes a butyl<->PEX connector, the end rings are gray on one side, copper colored on the other.

 

[Sumboodie]

Plumbing in the ATTIC? The attic heated?

 

[mike93lx]

Plumbing in the ATTIC? The attic heated?

Lol, yeah, it's called Arizona

 

[southalabama]

Use crimp rings the go/no go gauge is your friend.

 

[Walkers]

Plumbing in the ATTIC? The attic heated?

Not heated, but air conditioned!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have only used Pex B, with the crimp rings, and it's plenty easy too.

Same here with the exception of a few push lock connectors

I bought the Menards crimp tool.

 

[Walkers]

My re-pipe the house with PEX thread may be helpful to you.

Plumbing Project - Re-Pipe the House

I’ve put a few pieces of this in other threads, but thought I’d do one with everything in it. Along the way, there’ll be a few WTF moments, and maybe a few useful lessons learned. I’ve been thinking about this project for about 20 years. Always too busy with work, life, and whatever. But I...

www.garagejournal.com

Thanks, it really was.

 

[mike93lx]

i have a manual crimp tool and it works, but it ***** when you don't have a ton of clearance. it needs to open up all the way. i'd never want to use one for a whole house replumbing...you'll encounter situations where it will piss you off more than its worth.

 

[Jackfre]

As noted, buy the Milwaukee M12 Expander tool. I use Uponor pex A and have never had a problem. Use the 90* support brackets for the turns. Use as few of the brass fittings as you can manage. Use the copper sweeps for your hot/cold fixture supplies. Do not oversized your hot water lines as you will wait and wait for HW at the low flow rates of todays faucets. You can, but probably sell the M12 when done, but you probably won’t because it is such a cool tool. Set-up this way the job will roll along and you will feel as cool as your expander which your friends will discuss. That is, until you loan them the expander and then you will be very cool.

 

[gsmith22]

dewalt makes the same expansion tool if you have those batteries already (instead of the Milwaukee batteries). believe Uponor came up with the tool concept and licensed it to milwaukee and dewalt (and probably others)

 

[75gmck25]

I used PEX B and crimp rings, but PEX A and the expander tool is also a fine option. I just wasn't ready to spend the money for the expander too. I ordered the tools, connectors, and blue and red PEX from an online supply house. The local big box stores are okay in an emergency, but they are more expensive, and usually have a limited selection.

Try to make smooth bends in the PEX and avoid 90 degree connections as much as possible to improve flow. I bought PEX plastic hangars that are designed to support the 90 degree bends, and also insure you don't bend too tight and collapse the PEX. The hangars have nailing tabs on them, so they also serve as a support.

One catch with PEX B is that the crimper has relatively long handles, similar to a small bolt cutter. You have to think about your crimps and whether you have space to open the handles to a full 90 degrees to slip it over the crimp ring. For example, if the PEX is running parallel to a joist that means the handles have to open up to the left and right, toward the joists on each side. You usually have to pull the PEX down near the bottom of the joist, crimp the ring, and then slip it back up again. They do sell a tight space crimp tool, but I just learned to plan ahead for tight areas.

I ran 3/4" PEX and then used two manifolds with individual cutoffs for 1/2" feeder lines. The nice thing about this is that I have manifolds in the basement with individual runs to the sink, shower, washer, toilet, hose bib, and the kitchen sink above. If any of these devices need to be serviced (including something like the wall shutoff for a toilet or sink), I can turn off the water individually. This saves a lot of time and trouble in a busy household where nobody wants the entire water supply shut off for very long.

 

[Citation]

I used PEX B and crimp rings, but PEX A and the expander tool is also a fine option. I just wasn't ready to spend the money for the expander too. I ordered the tools, connectors, and blue and red PEX from an online supply house. The local big box stores are okay in an emergency, but they are more expensive, and usually have a limited selection.

Try to make smooth bends in the PEX and avoid 90 degree connections as much as possible to improve flow. I bought PEX plastic hangars that are designed to support the 90 degree bends, and also insure you don't bend too tight and collapse the PEX. The hangars have nailing tabs on them, so they also serve as a support.

One catch with PEX B is that the crimper has relatively long handles, similar to a small bolt cutter. You have to think about your crimps and whether you have space to open the handles to a full 90 degrees to slip it over the crimp ring. For example, if the PEX is running parallel to a joist that means the handles have to open up to the left and right, toward the joists on each side. You usually have to pull the PEX down near the bottom of the joist, crimp the ring, and then slip it back up again. They do sell a tight space crimp tool, but I just learned to plan ahead for tight areas.

I ran 3/4" PEX and then used two manifolds with individual cutoffs for 1/2" feeder lines. The nice thing about this is that I have manifolds in the basement with individual runs to the sink, shower, washer, toilet, hose bib, and the kitchen sink above. If any of these devices need to be serviced (including something like the wall shutoff for a toilet or sink), I can turn off the water individually. This saves a lot of time and trouble in a busy household where nobody wants the entire water supply shut off for very long.

I was given my crimping tool so I can't claim any insight when buying it but mine has a ratchet mechanism and short handles. This is similar to mine

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0053YCN5I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Sumboodie]

Not heated, but air conditioned!

That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

 

[Sumboodie]

dewalt makes the same expansion tool if you have those batteries already (instead of the Milwaukee batteries). believe Uponor came up with the tool concept and licensed it to milwaukee and dewalt (and probably others)

Yup. Wisbro, which is now called Uphonor.

 

[Sumboodie]

I used PEX B and crimp rings, but PEX A and the expander tool is also a fine option. I just wasn't ready to spend the money for the expander too. I ordered the tools, connectors, and blue and red PEX from an online supply house. The local big box stores are okay in an emergency, but they are more expensive, and usually have a limited selection.

What place? The ones I've checked are quite expensive for shipping.

 

[DGersic]

https://www.supplyhouse.com/

Very reasonable, and great support.

 

[liliysdad]

That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

We’ve had an unheated attic full of Pex for years now. We get temps below zero a few times a winter, but they don’t typically stick around more than a couple of days.

The cold side has frozen twice in the last eight years. It thaws out pretty quickly and life goes on.

 

[PossumDog]

I did one project with pex. I started out using the 100' coils and eventually decided the 10 or 20' sticks were easier to handle and manipulate, although you do have to use more fittings.

 

[LopezBart]

When we replumped our 1971 Airstream trailer some years ago, Pex was a big win over the original 3/8" copper lines & (lead of course) soldered connections. Pex is a big win in that it's quite flexible esp. in the 1/2" size, and pretty much freeze proof; I had few enough connections that did it all w/ Sharkbite push fittings. I'm also using it in our steam launch for the cold water runs for the same reasons.

 

[Walkers]

That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

There has been a paradigm shift here from insulating the walls and ceiling to insulating the walls walls and roof, then keeping your mechanical systems in conditioned space. It makes sense here, where we primarily cool space and the humidity is a non issue.

 

[Zeus36]

Make your PEX runs as long as possible with the fewest number of connections. We did a slab bypass through the attic and the plumber wanted to do all kinds of connections and angles. I had him do it my way and assisted with half the job. He charged more for his labor even though there was less cutting and installing connectors. Now have a continuous PEX run from the water heater in the garage to our crawlspace under the house. Only two connections in the PEX, one at the water heater supply, final connection to the existing plumbing.

 

[Sumboodie]

There has been a paradigm shift here from insulating the walls and ceiling to insulating the walls walls and roof, then keeping your mechanical systems in conditioned space. It makes sense here, where we primarily cool space and the humidity is a non issue.

Interesting.

It's uncommon to run plumbing in exterior walls here, and definitely not in attics.
When it's in exterior walls, usually end up framing out a wet wall that's against the actual exterior wall, but have seen that freeze too.

Even if freezing isn't an issue, a leak in the basement/crawlspace is generally less devastating than in the attic

 

[Pen & Wrench]

Obviously you are a good plumber if you've run lots and lots of copper and other types of pipe. I don't do a lot of plumbing, just our home, a rental and very little for friends and family. I like copper and I'm pretty good at it. I always said I was going to switch over to PEX at some point, and that came when I helped my daughter re-plumb some of her house. I went with PEX A Expansion and bought the Milwaukee Expansion tool. You can make anything work, but if you go with PEX, all you will say is "Why didn't I switch over sooner." You can use less fittings if you use the flexibility where you can, and it is so much faster and easier, you can't believe it until you do it.

 

[Walkers]

Interesting.

It's uncommon to run plumbing in exterior walls here, and definitely not in attics.
When it's in exterior walls, usually end up framing out a wet wall that's against the actual exterior wall, but have seen that freeze too.

Even if freezing isn't an issue, a leak in the basement/crawlspace is generally less devastating than in the attic

Basement and freezing are uncommon here.

 

[gsmith22]

I did one project with pex. I started out using the 100' coils and eventually decided the 10 or 20' sticks were easier to handle and manipulate, although you do have to use more fittings.

secret is to pull the coiled pex through a pipe with a slightly larger inside diameter than the outside diameter of the pex. I've used sch 40 pvc for this in 8' lengths. look up specs of pvc and pex online to find which pvc inside diameters fit which pex outside diameters. pulling through the pvc pipe straightens the coil significantly and the unusable coil becomes very usable. Won't be as straight as a purposefully purchased straight segment but coils are much cheaper and this gets you 90% of the way to 'straight'. i've anchord the pvc to wall studs and just pull the coil through for as much as you need keeping the coil intact for storage for what you don't need

 

[dcg9381]

You're going to love pex. It's easy. As others have noted, expansion pex is the "better" product for flow rate and maybe a few other reasons, but the initial tool is expensive and around here the expansion fittings aren't as common.

The shower valves may have several different PEX options, so watch that.. There is probably the "right" valve for whatever you choose. Adding a shower diverter valve - you can do some fancy looking things in showers that don't cost much.

I've done both stainless and copper crimp rings as standard. That worked for me. I have used expansion PEX - and I really like it, I just used it as I had a neighbor with the tool - once he sold the tool, I went back to crimp. If I was doing a house, it'd all be expansion.

Try to keep it out of exterior walls... Not because it's going break during a freeze, just because it might freeze in a real cold snap. Freezing is uncommon here also, but if you don't cover that option, it's a bummer to have the guest house without any available water.

 

[reader2580]

Even if freezing isn't an issue, a leak in the basement/crawlspace is generally less devastating than in the attic

Basements are very rare in places like Arizona too.

 

[75gmck25]

I used Pexuniverse.com and supply house.com for my PEX B supplies. Most fittings (T, splice, valve, etc.) prices were much cheaper than local, but it's hard to figure out ahead of time how much you need. IIRC, the crimp rings were 50 to a bag.

Pexuniverse price for 100 feet of 1/2" PEX B is currently $25.95, and if you buy 4 rolls the shipping is free. Depending on the size of your house you may need 200 feet of blue and 200 feet of red, which would get you free shipping. When I bought mine I was purchasing both 1/2" and 3/4" at the same time, and I don't remember what kind of deals they had on shipping.

You can also get reasonable shipping prices on 300 foot rolls.

The ratcheting crimper in one of the posts above might come in handy. My crimper is literally just like a bolt cutter, and it won't fit over the crimp rings until the handles are at a full 90 degrees. It came with the dies for multiple sizes of PEX, up to 1" IIRC, and they take just a minute or two to swap out. The long handles give it a lot of leverage, so its very easy to make the crimps.