Need some help with garage sizing...

[nperkins]

I am looking into doing an addition on my house including my man cave, aka two car garage... Oh yeah... And the wife wants 2 bedrooms above it...

Anyways, this is my current plan... 32'x24' addition...

(I've moved the garage doors more centered to have more room to exit the cars)

My dilemma is this... I need a variance to build this... The rule is 30', and this will bring it within 20'.. Getting the variance isn't a HUGE deal, mainly a time thing... But it made me think, what if I spin it so that the addition is 24x32 instead of 32x24... There would be a landing/stairway, which will bring the interior garage dimensions to about 19-20'... Is that wide enough to pull two cars in?

Does anybody have a similar setup they could possibly post pictures of?

(BTW... Longtime lurker, first time poster on here)

 

[MP&C]

A few thoughts....

The area at the foot of the stairs (still within the stairwell) is wasted space, due to the front porch. I'd suggest a set back of the garage addition similar to the other end of the house. It will bring the foot of the stairway closer to the proposed doorway. Otherwise, perhaps closing in the existing porch will bring this doorway to the stairwell closer to the front of the house. A reverse A extended over the front will replace the existing porch and expand your options inside.

The rear deck/stariway provides for adequate entry into the upstairs for moving furniture and other large items. A circular stariway may give you more room in the mancave. While it may still be tight at the door opening, it will open up farther inside where you'll need to open car doors.

24' wide for a garage is not very wide, but if we are talking smaller cars you may not see an issue. If you both drive large 4WD or SUV's, it will be real cramped. The plus is that the extra room at the end in this arrangement will make for a nice workspace.

Lastly, if all else fails, your lot and setback conditions dictate that this is either a nice roomy one car garage or a cramped two car. Check into the variances to accomodate the width, then add a couple feet in depth for more work area. They fill up quickly.

 

[kfosburg]

Depends a little on your choices in cars... Two suburbans would be very tight, but two smart cars would be spacious... Save your model and draw it up in a new file rotated as you suggest. A two car garage door is 16' wide and two normal size cars can fit through no problem. Biggest issue is going to be car door swing and if you have to get other stuff in and out through that door (kids bikes, lawn mowers, trash cans, etc...).

Aesthetically, it might actually look better by creating a little courtyard effect in your backyard and providing an alternate ridge line to the roof to break the slab side look.

Can you move the garage door to the side? (Although 20' depth is tight for trucks/mini-vans).

My two cents anyhow... Good luck either way!

Karl

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I don't really like the look of garage doors facing the street so here's my 2 cents. Turn the garage addition but leave the doors on the 32' side and route the driveway in from the side. Do you need a variance if your driveway encroaches on the 30' rule? If not then you are good to go.

 

[nperkins]

The way the elevation of my yard is, it would be quite a bit of work to move the doors to the side... I don't mind garage doors facing the street in the area we are in, since thats the way every other house on our street is..

I never thought of the circular stairwell though... What's the cost difference of a circular stairway versus a standard case?

As far as cars go, both the wife & I are into cars, but pretty much deal with smaller cars... She has an acura, and I drive a subaru wagon... The project once the garage is built will either be a 356 speedster with a subaru motor or a WRX with an LS1.. (Enough of my sidetrack)...

What do you mean a courtyard look?

My garage will also be my workshop, and will have a bridgeport, as well as my tools, cabinets, etc etc... I will also have a 4 post lift on my side of the garage (If she wants one, she can buy it herself for her side of the garage lol).

EDIT: I'm playing with my layouts, and going 24' wide instead of 32' just doesn't seem proportionate... And would pretty much need to be one 2 car door instead of two one car doors... I think the variance might be the better way to go...

But I'd still like to hear everybody's suggestions, since most of you probably know better than me...

 

[kfosburg]

By Courtyard look, I mean more of an area enclosed by the walls of your structure - in this case two sides as opposed to one. I am assuming that the shape of your structure would be an "L" shape after rotating it as you suggest. This gives you an opportunity to create a nice patio for example that is more comforting and private - like an outdoor room. Humans like enclosed spaces when sitting around enjoying time with friends/reading a book/morning coffee and paper...

I got a lot of great ideas from a book called "The Not So Big House". See http://www.notsobighouse.com . I would suggest heading to your local library and checking it out. House plan books are also good for getting ideas about how to orient stairs and other layout questions.

Karl

 

[nperkins]

hmm... i'll have to check it out on the kindle library...

We already have a back patio on the other side of the house that we plan on doing an overpour on...

Now i'm debating taking the 32x24 addition and pushing it back to match the other side.....

 

[Shadowdog500]

If you are going to have machining equipment in there you may want to make at a couple of feet deeper. I like to have a lot of room to move around.

Maybe you could plan for a 4 post lift in one bay and a two post lift in the other. I really prefer a 2 post over a 4 post when working on cars. Things seem to be a lot easier to get at with the suspension dropped out of the way.

Chris

 

[nperkins]

The majority of the work i'll be doing will be engine swap type stuff, and when its brakes/suspension, i plan on getting the center jack for the 4 post... I want to be able to easily get cars on/off the lift, and a 4 post is easier to get cars in the air.. I hate having to lay on the ground / find a place to put the pads everytime I want to lift a car...

I'm really thinking about the circular staircase just to buy back space...

The main reason i'm still debating the 24x32 instead of 32x24 is so that the main beam would run the length of the garage, and i wouldn't have to worry as much about the 10' ceiling clearance for the lift... As it is, i'm going to have the beam offset to either front or back to make clearance easier...

I'm trying to keep my budget for this addition at or under $50k.. doing some of the work myself...

 

[czeto]

I do'nt know what part of the country you're in but "under $50" is cutting it real close. My garage is 26x30 with a BMW, Chevelle, and a Oliver wood lathe and Rockwell metal lathe and the dog has to squeeze by. I'm planning on adding a 36x26 three car garage to make the present garage all workspace (with a little space for the wife) and the estimates are in the 50k range for just the garage. I recommend lots of thinking and planning before jumping in.

 

[nperkins]

I'm in CT... $50k isn't too far out for where I am...

$7k concrete
$10k framing
$10k insulation/drywall
$5k electrical
$10k plumbing/fixtures
$8k deck/flooring/misc

Obviously thats just loose, wide numbers right there, but also remember that a lot of the labor is being done by myself.. I have a much more detailed number that I have worked up, and came up with about $37k in materials... That leaves me with $13k of forgotten, which i'm sure there are..

 

[John in OH]

Couple of thoughts ….

1) I agree with Czeto, the $50k budget looks really tight … but, as points out, it is local sensitive. Just making a real rough estimate assume $30/ sq. ft. for the garage space and $65/sq.ft. for the finished rooms … and this assumes you doing some of the work … $30 x 768 sq.ft. = $23,040; $65 x 768 sq.ft. = $49,920. Total of $72,960.

2) Aesthetically, if you want to put in a lift, you will need, essentially, 12 ft. ceiling in the garage. I fear this is going to make the front of the addition have a rather gigantic front wall appearance. Give lots of thought to the outside appearance of the addition as I would thing that you want it to look good from the street. Larger windows may help, or floor to ceiling windows, or windows with transoms, etc., may mitigate this block appearance. Perhaps a false roof extension just above the garage doors.

3) What size garage doors are you planning to use? That selection will have a significant impact on the front wall appearance.

4) Give serious thought to a side entry. My last house had side entry with a 32’ concrete apron in front of the overhead door and, except for my F150, 32’ was most adequate for turning and entering the garage from the side.

5) If you use a side entry you can have the ridge line of the addition perpendicular to the existing ridge line and it will help with the aesthetic appearance of the front. Also, with a side entry you will be able to play with garage level window sizes on the front wall to help with street appearance.

6) A 24ft depth for the garage is not unreasonable. It will be tight for something like a full-size pickup, but for mid-size cars it should be OK. 19ft-20ft will be too tight and you will not be pleased with the result after having spent so much money. Is there any way to re-orient the stairs so they run at a right angle from what you show on your floor plan?

Good luck!

 

[nperkins]

hmmm... I spun the doors to the side... the front setup was using 9' doors, this is using 8' doors...

Moving the doors to the side will add to the cost some. It would be the additional brick work, as well as 4 additional windows... And i'm not sure that I like the look... I'll have to stare at it some more... And my side apron if i put the doors on the side as pictured will leave me about a 15-20' apron before hitting the property line...

As far as the 12' ceilings go, everything i work on is low race cars. I don't work on trucks... And if i do, I can use the other bay and do it on the ground.. I actually did quite a bit of research on that, and 10' ceilings should be good for 90% of the work i will do.

I also have a 13'x17' shed in my backyard that will be getting torn down, and rebuilt after this is done, which will be my kids/yard storage location, as well as my paint booth.

 

[MP&C]

I believe the suggestion for garage doors on the side of the building included rotating the addition....which may be needed for driveway entry radius

 

[John in OH]

MP&C is correct. I envisioned rotating the entire addition 90 deg. thus putting the garage doors on the side.

 

[nperkins]

Would you say to do it with or without a setback to mimick the other side?

 

[MP&C]

A buddy of mine did a similar addition (with the rotated option) but no longer owns the house. I'll try to stop this weekend for some pictures without attracting too much attention, it should help to visualize what it will look like....

 

[John in OH]

Pure opinion here, but I think it would look better set forward somewhat. Sort of mimicking a Western Reserve style.

 

[nperkins]

thanks MP&C... Here's a quick one without changing the setback...

Unfortunately, i can't really bring it forward anymore... The way the property slopes, if I go forward, i'll end up with 5'+ concrete walls in my garage..

 

[nate379]

All I have to say is 24ft isn't deep enough to put a truck in and have room to work.

If you want to have some walking room front and back plus have space for a bit of junk against the wall I suggest at least 30ft.

My garage is 24x26 and I really wish it was another 4-5 feet deep.

You say you don't work on trucks... well how about 10 years from now? Better to do it now and never need it vs don't and wish you had. You know as well as everyone on here that a garage can't be too big!

 

[toddmcdong]

Would you say to do it with or without a setback to mimick the other side?

Are the french doors the main entrance to the house? If yes, I would say a setback would help the entrance remain prominent. This would give you the opportunity to extend the porch across the garage.

 

[MP&C]

The large picture window is where the garage door used to be, this has been converted into a lawyers office, but is a similar addition to what you are doing...

 

[nperkins]

Thanks for the comments guys... As far as the working on trucks goes, The way the garage will be laid out, i'll be able to work on a truck by pulling it in across the bays... That won't be a problem. Plus my 4 post will be on casters so I can get that out of the way..

The french doors aren't the main entrance... The door to the left of the french doors is the main entrance. They aren't true french doors. With the slope of the property, I don't think i'd be expanding the porch.. Most of our time is spent in the backyard..

My other concern is the beams... Spanning 32' with trying to maintain a 10' ceiling in the garage was a little bit of a worry, but I have been told it doesn't need to be dead center.

I had a thought, and that is does the beam have to go the longer distance, or can i run multiple beams across the shorter distance? Say one beam in between the two garage bays, then another one between the garage bay & the work area towards the back?

Also, I was told that I should rotate the roof so that it is 24' across to maintain the same pitch as the existing house more easily, but I don't think I like the look of it..

Remeasured this weekend and found out I don't need a variance, which makes me really happy... Also found out that I don't need my property resurveyed, which makes me even happier.. Now I just need to get ahold of the health inspector so I can get a perc test done...

 

[nperkins]

bump... anybody have opinions on my roof setup, or beam questions?

I also have some driveway questions, but I need to get some aerial shots first...

 

[nperkins]

ok... Here's the driveway dilemma...

Grey is the current driveway before the addition... 3/4" crushed Stone...

Red would be my proposed driveway, most likely still crushed stone.. Sweeping from the old driveway, then where it sweeps over, it would have to have retaining wall built in front of the garage...

Green is my other thought... To move my driveway and make it more of a straight shot to the apron... There are two main obstacles with this.. #1. Those black dots are all trees that would need to be removed. The one to the right of the apron (red) will probably be removed anyways...

Here's a few current pictures to give some ideas of the elevations which will show some of the excavation required...

 

[Brad1234]

The front doesn't have much curb appeal. Try bringing the house roof across the garage above the doors. Maybe even look at laying the brick all the way to that roof line.

 

[John in OH]

Not sure what the issue is with regard to the beams ... I got lost in your description.

Personally, my wife and I like the configuration with the roof line of the addition as shown in the last set of renderings; ie., 24' dimension across the front & O/H doors on the side . However, Brad1234 is correct ... there is a lack of curb appeal. I've never been very good at architectural details, but it needs "something".

Possible things to try .... increase the roof pitch of the addition; perhaps add false shutters to the addition and to the existing windows in the center of the house; perhaps try extending the existing house roof line clear across the front of the addition ( I think this is a variation of what Brad1234 is suggesting) ... this could possibly be widened somewhat to make a covered porch from the driveway to the front door; perhaps add a decorative vent in the gable of the addition. Last suggestion ... all of the windows in your current house are either double side-by-side or triple side-by-side ... try this same pattern for the addition windows.

 

[Timido]

You said you work on race cars. My Garage doors are not a real straight shot in the way the driveway is on a 90 Degree angle. 90% of the time it is not a problem the times I have to try to get the trailer straight at one of the smaller doors it is a problem. I think you said 8 foot doors I have 2 9' doors and one 11ft. I would have built it with all of the doors bigger. On that part where the driveway turns 90 the smaller doors make it more difficult to get in. Not so much with a small car but with a truck it is a 6 point turn. My garage is 36wide 24deep. I just sold my Excursion if would fit but good luck getting around it. My mustang I had plenty of room with the 24ft depth even with a 2 foot deep work bench in front.

 

[nperkins]

Met with the contractors today... The roofline is going to go in the same direction as the existing house, and they are going to adjust the pitch to be the same as the house as well.

We are also planning for 3-4' concrete walls, so that the garage can be sunk down some, bringing the roofline down. Something like this..

I can't figure out how to do elevations in this software, so its hard to get the picture. There will probably be steps/sidewalk to the front porch...

This will possibly eliminate the brickwork as well and replace it with some garden work.

What I meant by the beams was instead of one beam going 32' long for the main support in the garage, run two or three 24' wide in between each of the garage bays.. This pic shows what I'm talking about.. The red beam would be lengthwise, but blue is how we will be running them, which makes lift access/use easier.

As you can see the floorplan was also rotated to allow more garage space at both the advise of the contractor & the people in this thread...

Eventually, we will be adding shutters to the entire house... I probably should throw them on there to see them... We most likely will use the sweeping driveway, and not move the entire thing...

As far as the working on cars/trailers... I'm not that concerned with direct garage door access... 99% of the time everything i work on will be drive in/drive out... Its a pain in the *** to get a trailer into my driveway now because of how the road is anyways...

I also might go 26' instead of 24' to get a hair more room... Also, if we end up with 4' concrete walls, I may end up with 12' ceilings, since the lumber is that long anyways...

Hopefully i'll have my quote from the contractors this week sometime so I can get my financing all set.

Anybody have guesses on the quote? It will be quoted with them doing everything, then they will be giving me kickbacks for doing things as we go.. (I'll probably do most of the siding, all the tile work, most of the drywall, insulation, and help with the framing...) I'm figuring $60-70k is gonna be the quote..

 

[Timido]

Those 4 foot concrete walls would be nice for weld splatter and spraying down the floors and walls

 

[John in OH]

Looks as if things are starting to take shape!

Couple of thoughts to consider ...
You might think about a linen closet for the central bath and the smaller bedroom. Also, when we remodeled our old farm house my wife wanted a laundry chute (laundry is in the basement) from the upper floor to the basement ... sure saves labor not to have to carry dirty clothes and linens down two flights of stairs. Last comment ... I'm afraid you are going to have a wicked hard time getting furniture around those tight corners at the bottom of the stairs ... any way to open up access at the bottom?

 

[nperkins]

Those 4 foot concrete walls would be nice for weld splatter and spraying down the floors and walls

Thats why I want them... I want to wash cars inside in the winter without worry...

Looks as if things are starting to take shape!

Couple of thoughts to consider ...
You might think about a linen closet for the central bath and the smaller bedroom. Also, when we remodeled our old farm house my wife wanted a laundry chute (laundry is in the basement) from the upper floor to the basement ... sure saves labor not to have to carry dirty clothes and linens down two flights of stairs. Last comment ... I'm afraid you are going to have a wicked hard time getting furniture around those tight corners at the bottom of the stairs ... any way to open up access at the bottom?

My original plans had a linen closet... The recess in the walk in closet will most likely turn into a linen closet/shoe rack for her...

Laundry chute was a thought too, but its only one flight of stairs... No basement. And there is almost 4' at the tightest spot of every intersection. And there will also be a deck with a sliding glass door so things can get brought up through there.

 

[Kevin54]

Personally, if it were me, I would go deep instead of wide. A fullsize in a 24' depth does not give you much room to work in front or back IF you would have to pull an engine, work under the hood, etc. And at 24' deep, your workbench will be at the side which means you have to walk back and forth. At 32' deep, your bench can be up front where it is easily accessible, you can pull your vehicle in frontwards or rearwards, whichever end you are working on, and if you have to work with the doors open, you can always leave on vehicle outside for a while. My house garage is 22' wide and I park my wife Solara and my Jimmy inside and have a bench off to one side but you have to watch opening the doors that you don't slam them into something. An extra 2' would be ideal. Also my fullsize Dodge Ram quadcab is close to taking up all the room on the 24' depth of my garage which is one side of it. The other side is 28' in depth with an aircompressor in front. I have room to work under the hood but not a lot of room behind the truck.

 

[nperkins]

Personally, if it were me, I would go deep instead of wide. A fullsize in a 24' depth does not give you much room to work in front or back IF you would have to pull an engine, work under the hood, etc. And at 24' deep, your workbench will be at the side which means you have to walk back and forth. At 32' deep, your bench can be up front where it is easily accessible, you can pull your vehicle in frontwards or rearwards, whichever end you are working on, and if you have to work with the doors open, you can always leave on vehicle outside for a while. My house garage is 22' wide and I park my wife Solara and my Jimmy inside and have a bench off to one side but you have to watch opening the doors that you don't slam them into something. An extra 2' would be ideal. Also my fullsize Dodge Ram quadcab is close to taking up all the room on the 24' depth of my garage which is one side of it. The other side is 28' in depth with an aircompressor in front. I have room to work under the hood but not a lot of room behind the truck.

I took that into consideration... But I need a "workshop" area as well... I have a bridgeport, as well as many other tools that I will need an area for. Most of my tools for working on cars will be in a roll cart... Most vehicles I work on are subarus, which average 15' long.. I'll most likely be using a BendPak HD-7p lift, which is also 15' long, leaving me 8' to pull an engine... I am debating expanding to 26' instead of 24, since it shouldn't effect costing too much..

 

[ddawg16]

I agree with Kevin.....deep.....it gives you more room for your tools and such.

We are getting ready to do a 2-story addition to our house.....here is what whe have desinged so far....the lower story is the existing house...we are adding a 2 story addition to the rear....

Rear veiw....second story is the master bedroom with a balcony...

My garage is detached in the rear....the second view is about how it would look as from the upstairs of the garage.

Look at the Garage Build link in my sig....I have a spiral staircase in my garage. My garage is also 20x25....and has a PSL beam down the middle.

 

[toddmcdong]

A couple of observations, for what they're worth -

the stair needs a landing on the first floor; it would probably be more functional if you enclosed the inset porch, removed the wall with the french doors and added a covered entry on the outside, directly in front of the french door wall. that would eliminate the jog you have to have to get up the stairs. That would also liven up the front facade for some "curb appeal", if that matters.

upstairs - I just moved the bathroom a little to reduce your hallway space and expand the closets. Also, you might just check to make sure you have the required headroom on the stair.

ken

 

[toddmcdong]

I forgot one thing when negotiating self performed work with contractors - in my experience, work costs more when it is bid than when you are getting it back. So you might add work to the contract rather than reducing the scope as you go.

 

[rsa]

Most articles on design bemoan the prominence of an attached garage's doors and how they detract from the aesthetics of the house.

I think your build is an exception and the garage doors seriously need to be moved to the 24' front side. The result is a familiar scene that most people accept as normal design. IMO, it adds to the curb appeal, defining what the big-box attached to your house is, an attached garage with a bonus room over it. That solves your driveway issue, gives room for trucks lengthwise, and leaves space in front of the vehicles for other purposes. I might want to bump what would now be the width to 26' or 28'. 24' is acceptable, but leaves little or no room for anything to the sides of the parked vehicles.

Let's see a rendering of the garage with the doors on the front?

 

[Carl B]

I am looking into doing an addition on my house including my man cave, aka two car garage... Oh yeah... And the wife wants 2 bedrooms above it...

Not what you ask for but - - - Just something to think about:
1. With the cost of building your addition estimated between $50,000.00 and $75,000.00.
2. Adding a Garage & Bedroom addition that is bigger than your house.
3. Having limited buildable area on your present property.
4. With mortgage interest rates the lowest I've seen them in 50 years
5. Lots of really good bargains on the market today - and in most cases it is far less expensive to buy existing sq. ft. of space, than it is to build new additional sq. ft.

I would spend the time to find a home that better suits your current requirements. All home values are down right now - but I'd put that extra $50K to $75K into a home with a larger garage to start with and more land for future expansion.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[nperkins]

A couple of observations, for what they're worth -

the stair needs a landing on the first floor; it would probably be more functional if you enclosed the inset porch, removed the wall with the french doors and added a covered entry on the outside, directly in front of the french door wall. that would eliminate the jog you have to have to get up the stairs. That would also liven up the front facade for some "curb appeal", if that matters.

upstairs - I just moved the bathroom a little to reduce your hallway space and expand the closets. Also, you might just check to make sure you have the required headroom on the stair.

ken

I'll have to consider that new upstairs floorplan. I did however move the french doors to the side at the request of wife so that when you open the doors its a little more private..

And eventually the porch will be enclosed. Its just not in the budget right now. The room behind those doors has bamboo hard wood, and is raised up about 3", so it would be quite a bit extra work to enclose that. I will most likely enclose it in the next year or two though... Just to make the living room bigger...

Not what you ask for but - - - Just something to think about:
1. With the cost of building your addition estimated between $50,000.00 and $75,000.00.
2. Adding a Garage & Bedroom addition that is bigger than your house.
3. Having limited buildable area on your present property.
4. With mortgage interest rates the lowest I've seen them in 50 years
5. Lots of really good bargains on the market today - and in most cases it is far less expensive to buy existing sq. ft. of space, than it is to build new additional sq. ft.

I would spend the time to find a home that better suits your current requirements. All home values are down right now - but I'd put that extra $50K to $75K into a home with a larger garage to start with and more land for future expansion.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Unfortunately, the way the market is right now, we can't sell. I've lived here for 6 years, and don't have enough equity to move. The housing market we are in here is **** right now. I'd take a major loss by moving (and we love where we are).. Trust me.. I tried that first. Found an AWESOME $400k house that was down to $199k... But couldn't sell our house...

And as far as the land goes, we have 3/4 acre of land... Just don't want to build backwards, and can't build on the other side due to septic.