yessireebob!
Need some ratchet advice
- Thread starter Wagz3
- Start date
yessireebob!
I don't think I could skinny down to two ratchets, but for what I have in-hand now I'd keep the following four:
- Icon 1/4" swivel (I just got the Snap On 1/4" swivel, but haven't really used it yet)
- Snap On F80 3/8" - 7.5"
- Icon 3/8" - 9" (though likely to be supplanted by what's in the mail...)
- Carlyle 1/2"
If I had to do three, I'd drop the Carlyle and use a 1/2"" breaker bar and an adapter for larger sockets. My 1/2" sockets are mainly used on impacts anyway...
- Icon 1/4" swivel (I just got the Snap On 1/4" swivel, but haven't really used it yet)
- Snap On F80 3/8" - 7.5"
- Icon 3/8" - 9" (though likely to be supplanted by what's in the mail...)
- Carlyle 1/2"
If I had to do three, I'd drop the Carlyle and use a 1/2"" breaker bar and an adapter for larger sockets. My 1/2" sockets are mainly used on impacts anyway...
Been appreciating all the input, so many views, I knew this would probably be the case.
So I decided to just go to where I could find some ratchets and check out the lengths and just play with the flex vs standard. So I went to the box stores and Napa. What I know is that the standard Nepros are pretty short, too short. They are 4.9" 1/4 and 7" 3/8. That was just the feeling I had in my hand. My hands are small and on the 1/4 my hand was either on the head or slightly off handle. They were close though, so just the ones that were 5.5" or 7.75 felt better. Some of the long handle seemed excessive. So Nepro might be out as the standards seem short and long versions are almost 7" and almost 11" which seemed on the long side when handled ones in that length.
So as mentioned the flex versions add length so that would help in that respect.
I did handle the flex versions in detent and locking flex. The cheap Chinese Huskies I hated immediately as they were loose and floppy and that would annoy me. The Taiwan ones were much nicer as expected. I could see how they could possibly be handy in certain situations. A lot of people have posted how it is their "go to" but I have a feeling, but could be wrong, they are auto mechanics and without knowing much I could see how flexes would be my "go to" trying to get a decent andgle and manipulate around parts. Still unsure, something about the solid feel of standard ratchets, but the flexes were intriguing too.
I know that the Taiwan stuff I handled will not compare to the top brands being discussed so those flexes would feel even better.
That Taiwan stuff did feel pretty good at the price point can't be argued with. That was just Taiwan Kobalt and Craftsmen and I know there are better TW out there. I know they would be plenty sufficient so I'm doing a little rethinking. I could get all the versions for less than the price of two premiums.
I know people have mentioned this. I think I still want two premiums and will back fill as needed.
Two things I now know is my preference is standard chrome handle vs comfort grip-didn't feel good to me. And for whatever reason (and I know there's some real love here for them) is the Carlyle from Napa did nothing for me. The finish was meh, moving the direction level was unimpressive in it's action/smoothness, and didn't really feel balanced. It may have not been their best stuff. I know they were pear head full polish and comfort grip ranging from $30+ to $65+
Side note, my Zephyr bit driver set came in and I used them to hang a mop/broom holder. Amazing difference, so much better. Bit set=done.
I'm overthinking this but I got the call to return to work today so I will have much less time to be neurotic and obsessive about decisions that are easy for most people. So with Corona phasing out I have to me sure there are cars to buy-I work at the Ford plant in Buffalo.
So I decided to just go to where I could find some ratchets and check out the lengths and just play with the flex vs standard. So I went to the box stores and Napa. What I know is that the standard Nepros are pretty short, too short. They are 4.9" 1/4 and 7" 3/8. That was just the feeling I had in my hand. My hands are small and on the 1/4 my hand was either on the head or slightly off handle. They were close though, so just the ones that were 5.5" or 7.75 felt better. Some of the long handle seemed excessive. So Nepro might be out as the standards seem short and long versions are almost 7" and almost 11" which seemed on the long side when handled ones in that length.
So as mentioned the flex versions add length so that would help in that respect.
I did handle the flex versions in detent and locking flex. The cheap Chinese Huskies I hated immediately as they were loose and floppy and that would annoy me. The Taiwan ones were much nicer as expected. I could see how they could possibly be handy in certain situations. A lot of people have posted how it is their "go to" but I have a feeling, but could be wrong, they are auto mechanics and without knowing much I could see how flexes would be my "go to" trying to get a decent andgle and manipulate around parts. Still unsure, something about the solid feel of standard ratchets, but the flexes were intriguing too.
I know that the Taiwan stuff I handled will not compare to the top brands being discussed so those flexes would feel even better.
That Taiwan stuff did feel pretty good at the price point can't be argued with. That was just Taiwan Kobalt and Craftsmen and I know there are better TW out there. I know they would be plenty sufficient so I'm doing a little rethinking. I could get all the versions for less than the price of two premiums.
I know people have mentioned this. I think I still want two premiums and will back fill as needed.
Two things I now know is my preference is standard chrome handle vs comfort grip-didn't feel good to me. And for whatever reason (and I know there's some real love here for them) is the Carlyle from Napa did nothing for me. The finish was meh, moving the direction level was unimpressive in it's action/smoothness, and didn't really feel balanced. It may have not been their best stuff. I know they were pear head full polish and comfort grip ranging from $30+ to $65+
Side note, my Zephyr bit driver set came in and I used them to hang a mop/broom holder. Amazing difference, so much better. Bit set=done.
I'm overthinking this but I got the call to return to work today so I will have much less time to be neurotic and obsessive about decisions that are easy for most people. So with Corona phasing out I have to me sure there are cars to buy-I work at the Ford plant in Buffalo.
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measuredtwice
Well-known member
Glad to hear that you are able to go back to work.
Harbor Freight/China/Taiwan gets heavily pushed by shills and trolls online but don't be discouraged from buying a ratchet made by fellow Americans, especially in this economy. 
Between your original choices of Snap-On and Nepros, I can only comment on Snap-On since I've never seen a Nepros except in photos. In answer to your question about handle length, I'd probably get the long handle or locking flex for the Snap-On 3/8. With 1/4, I'd get the Snap-On long handle... which actually isn't very long.So I emailed Frank from frankstools.com earlier today, and he relied pretty quickly.
He isn’t selling Nepros ratchets currently, but plans to again in the near future. In regards to the warranty, he said “They are warranted for life, and I am your POC.” I assume POC means point of care in this case? So that’s nice. Now I’ll have to pick up a Nepros ratchet or two to play with.
He isn’t selling Nepros ratchets currently, but plans to again in the near future. In regards to the warranty, he said “They are warranted for life, and I am your POC.” I assume POC means point of care in this case? So that’s nice. Now I’ll have to pick up a Nepros ratchet or two to play with.
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Wagz3 said:
Around the house and taking care of your small outdoor equipment a 7-8" 3/8" and 4" 1/4" ratchet is fine.
If i'm working on a vehicle its probably heavily corroded so I like my leverage there. As a result my most used ratchets are in the 12" range for 3/8" and and 6" range for 1/4". These aren't really feasible lengths for taking apart a household appliance or putting together some Ikea furniture though.
As far as flex vs non-flex, I like flex in longer lengths as you have the extra reach and leverage but sometimes there is something obstructing a straight shot. For a standard length ratchet I think flex is pretty much a waste.
Nepros are all quick release ratchets which I favor. Snap-on offers QR too but generally when people are talking about their ratchets its without QR. I prefer it, quite a few don't.
Nepros has no adjustable flex joint. Its a pad that presses against the head as it pivots but the actual joint is pinned. It works well but its something to be aware of maybe as time goes on. With Snap-on and most other US manufacturers the joints use a bolt so you can crank them down and basically make the head fixed in position.
Nepros in 3/8" drive have flush QR buttons, Snap-on's stick out a bit. In 1/4" drive they're both the same.
As far as locking flex, obviously Nepros doesn't have an option. Snap-on does but I personally don't like their locking flex. The button can be pulled down and latched to the right so the head can pivot but the latch notch is so shallow that a light tap re-locks the head. This is where Matco comes in. Matco mechanisms aren't as smooth, don't come in QR, but they have a great locking flex that can be either locked or unlocked and used as a standard flex (also with a bolt at the joint). Matco heads are also amongst the thinnest with their 3/8" ratchet being as thin as a Nepros or Snap-on 1/4" ratchet.
Koken Zeal is another option which also make nice ratchets. They're coarse tooth comparatively speaking but with super low back drag and small heads. The only oddity is the reverse lever direction is backwards compared to just about every other manufacturer.
Six in one, half a dozen in the other. I don't think you can go wrong with any top tier ratchet manufacturers be it Koken Zeal, Snap-on, Nepros, Matco, Mac/Proto, or even many of the newer Taiwan offerings like Tekton and Carlyle. I just happen to favor Nepros and Snap-on because they manufacture a top tier product that also caters to people who like quick release. If you told me I had to throw one away and live with the other for the rest of my life it would probably be the Nepros that gets the boot if only for the fact that I know i'll be able to warranty out or rebuild a Snap-on ratchet with a single phone call and not an extra dime spent for the rest of my life.
One other small detail worth mentioning is Nepros has awesome chrome handles that are actually designed for a human hand. Snap-on chrome handles are terrible, especially in 1/4" drive. If they didn't have comfort grips I probably wouldn't own their ratchets at all.
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How can a round handle be uncomfortable? Is a pen uncomfortable? A steering wheel before they started pointlessly shaping those too? The grip of a motorcycle handlebar? The handle of a suitcase or cantilever-style toolbox?
I am certain this is an imaginary problem for mechanics with hands tougher than a newborn’s.
While I’m at it, the length of the shaped part of the handle makes no difference. I’ve heard people complain that Koken or even Snap-on grips are too short, as if the tool is a tennis racquet. You practically never hold a ratchet handle in a fully closed fist. The tool is usually at an angle that prevents that, and the force is usually far lower than needs that. Often you’re pushing with the heel of your hand although you were taught otherwise. And when you do grasp it in a closed fist, it makes no difference if the innermost portion of your hand goes onto the tool’s shaft. That part has the least effect on torque at the fastener. Your force should be applied near the end of the ratchet where it does any good, as is positively encouraged by the short shaped section of Koken ratchets.
I am certain this is an imaginary problem for mechanics with hands tougher than a newborn’s.
While I’m at it, the length of the shaped part of the handle makes no difference. I’ve heard people complain that Koken or even Snap-on grips are too short, as if the tool is a tennis racquet. You practically never hold a ratchet handle in a fully closed fist. The tool is usually at an angle that prevents that, and the force is usually far lower than needs that. Often you’re pushing with the heel of your hand although you were taught otherwise. And when you do grasp it in a closed fist, it makes no difference if the innermost portion of your hand goes onto the tool’s shaft. That part has the least effect on torque at the fastener. Your force should be applied near the end of the ratchet where it does any good, as is positively encouraged by the short shaped section of Koken ratchets.
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Yeah that makes more sense. Maybe he means partner of choice? That would certainly be good for business.
Ton ton
Well-known member
The Carlyle chrome handle 15" 1/2" ratchet feel nondefinitive in my experience. It feels almost spongey. The head is nice and small. I took the ratchet mechanism apart and greased it. There's nothing wrong with the ratchet mechanism. Here's my experience with Carlyle, I am thinking about buying another long handle Carlyle ratchet.
When you push or pull on a handle every contour, detail, and change in diameter alters the pressure point distribution on the skin.
Then there is the diameter itself (Snap-on 1/4 handles are far too thin for leverage and the 3/8 isn't great either).
Unless you've lost all feeling in your hands there is no way you're going to not notice an improvement in feel with Nepros, Cornwell, or the new Proto 90 tooth.
The less surface area you have to grip the greater the force needs to be applied to the handle which also increases the discomfort since you have increased pressure on a smaller area. That's not imaginary it's basic physics.
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Ever picked up something and it just didn't feel right? It is not a theoretical statement to say that things that **** make work harder and make you feel worse/more-tired/etc., even when there aren't egregious flaws in design that can literally cause discomfort or injury (especially in a tool like a ratchet where repetitive use can literally hurt if the design is bad). I don't think there's any risk of that in any that have been suggested here, but the design/shape of the handle (and other things) can absolutely make a difference, and it's different for pretty much everybody.
So what works for you works.
Yeah - their chrome handles are fine, but a bit meh. It seems like it would be great to not really feel the ratchet, but it seems like it disappears a bit. My Snap On and Icon ratchets have a terrific shape. The handle of my Pittsburgh Pro 1/4" swivel is one of the things I don't like much about it, so it's a spare/travel one now. Interesting how different the handles are between the Snap On that replaced it and the Icon:
I see you're in France, so possibly the concept of ergonomics has been stricken from your mind by horrible French cars.
Ouch....
Besides being too small in circumference, you are correct, a plain round handle is not particularly uncomfortable. The Snap-on handle isn't simply round though; it has many machined areas of different radii some of which are actually sharp on your fingers especially the roll stamped part number, etc. In short if I pay over $100 (over $200 in 1/2" drive) for a machined steel cylinder it should feel 'good' when I pick it up.
I’m not saying they don’t feel different, I’m objecting to calling some arbitrary change an improvement.
Did anyone complain about the comfort of a steel handle when all ratchets had that?
Pressure is only a problem if it’s too high, something that is hard to imagine with any ratchet handle I’ve seen. What are you doing with a ratchet to hurt yourself?
And how do you cope with a combination spanner if a round ratchet handle causes injury?
As for me, I like a bit of pressure. Surface features or edges dig into the fleshy bits of the hand to give a secure grip. If this was uncomfortable I wouldn’t like it, but it’s not.
Grab an object right now, anything on your desk, and notice how it depresses your thumb pad. Ouch!
French cars are ergonomic masterpieces compared to the horrific interiors coming out of Germany these days, though they’re all bad alongside a Sacco-era Mercedes-Benz.
Which proves the point. Too many customers think a bit of swoopy plastic makes something ergonomic. That has nothing to do with ergonomics and often makes things worse … and less durable and ugly. But the marketing departments have convinced people these changes are improvements by calling them soft grip or giving them a bright colour.
Real improvement is harder to achieve, so it waits.
There’s less difference in human hands than that statement implies. However, there’s a great difference in people’s imagination. Plastic handles are sold on imaginary qualities, not objective function.
The different radii are to give axial grip and allow perpendicular force against some part of the handle across a variety of angles. A perfectly cylindrical handle relies on friction as soon as you’re pulling at an angle … which works fine too until you have oil on your hands and access is difficult.
I haven’t used a Snap-on ratchet but I’ve used ones with similar handles and cannot imagine the problem.
Thanks for the laugh. Since everyone clearly wants to know my opinion: I’m a simple guy. I like the looks of the all metal handles. I like the feel of the soft comfort grips. I’ll use either depending on the weather.
BrandoJames
Well-known member
Whoa. Unless you're from Japan, you shouldn't be lecturing Euros on "horrible cars". American vehicles (with the possible exception of a Ford truck) are overall horrible.
Uh...yeah. But there weren't much in the way of design alternatives, and the world was a harder place 50-75 years ago. The field of user experience and ergonomics has come a long, long way...
Repetitive motion
With the sorta-exception of the Nissan/Toyota contributions via partnerships, French cars are dumpster fires of design aesthetic and usability. I can understand the influences of Stockholm syndrome though.
I haven’t used a Snap-on ratchet but I’ve used ones with similar handles and cannot imagine the problem.[/QUOTE]
I was puttering in my garage, so some examples:
Snap On FL80 - the best overall feel. Perfect heft, full in the meat of the grip but the taper for the index and pinky give it a comfort and "sure" feeling I don't have with my other ratchets (Icon, Carlyle, etc.)
Icon 3/8" - Similar to the Snap On, but not quite the same level of oneness. I'm guessing it's the slightly-less-tapered index finger, but I doubt it translates to any discomfort. It's new, so I haven't used it enough to say.
Icon 3/8" swivel - A comfort handle that (unsurprisingly) offers a similar experience to the regular chrome model. I like the shape and feel of the rubber/whatever, and the transition at the top work well for me.
Carlyle 1/2" - A fatter, less tapered handle that feels a little awkward, but since I'm not doing a ton of 1/2" stuff manually (usually it's an impact, or the fastener is coming off with my 3/8" battery ratchet), it's not a big deal.
The commonality for what feels good to me is a taper for the pinky, meat in the middle (but not too much) and some relief for the index finger. The Cornwell, Wera and other styles of handles don't do it for me at all. I get that people are different and have different preferences though.
richfinn
Well-known member
I was puttering in my garage, so some examples:
Snap On FL80 - the best overall feel. Perfect heft, full in the meat of the grip but the taper for the index and pinky give it a comfort and "sure" feeling I don't have with my other ratchets (Icon, Carlyle, etc.)
Icon 3/8" - Similar to the Snap On, but not quite the same level of oneness. I'm guessing it's the slightly-less-tapered index finger, but I doubt it translates to any discomfort. It's new, so I haven't used it enough to say.
Icon 3/8" swivel - A comfort handle that (unsurprisingly) offers a similar experience to the regular chrome model. I like the shape and feel of the rubber/whatever, and the transition at the top work well for me.
Carlyle 1/2" - A fatter, less tapered handle that feels a little awkward, but since I'm not doing a ton of 1/2" stuff manually (usually it's an impact, or the fastener is coming off with my 3/8" battery ratchet), it's not a big deal.
The commonality for what feels good to me is a taper for the pinky, meat in the middle (but not too much) and some relief for the index finger. The Cornwell, Wera and other styles of handles don't do it for me at all. I get that people are different and have different preferences though.[/QUOTE]
I think Citroens (older ones at least) were very ergonomic, great comfortable seats and "magic carpet" ride suspension (used by Rolls-Royce in fact)
I'll grant you they were a bit eccentric and the switchgear and instrumentation was a bit crazy, but in todays bland automotive world they are sadly missed by many people who like quirky designs
Citroen DS/SM to my eyes are still very cool futuristic looking cars
I like old BMWs too, pretty advanced compared to British stuff from that era
Yea clearly many people did considering most European tool manufacturers offer mostly comfort handle ratchets these days. Snap-on has stuck screwdriver handles to their ratchets as an option for I don't know how many decades. Same with Cornwell and MAC.
Its just called work. Ever have a 17mm suspension bolt rusted in its bushing without only a few inches of clearance?
I didn't say injury, I said its not comfortable. Last time I checked combination spanners don't come in 18-30" lengths like 3/8" and 1/2" ratchets do and you don't get to 12" until you start getting to around 19mm or greater in size. However if I actually need a long wrench I use my extra long double boxes which greatly increase the leverage over a standard combo.
Also since you brought them up companies do market actual "wrench extenders".
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Carlyle 1/2" - A fatter, less tapered handle that feels a little awkward, but since I'm not doing a ton of 1/2" stuff manually (usually it's an impact, or the fastener is coming off with my 3/8" battery ratchet), it's not a big deal.
I don't have the 1/2" version but I do own the 1/4" Carlyle comfort grip. In that size, to me at least, the Carlyle comfort grip is much better than the S-o 1/4" comfort grip (longer, wider).
Back in the day Citroen was, arguably, ahead of its time with design and engineering. I can appreciate a lot of what they did. But often it ended up in overly complex difficult to maintain systems. Pretty cool though and very functional (when they worked).
The BMW S38 Engine is uber awesome. Also, the E24 M6 didn't have one single cup holder in the car. But between the rear seats they installed a 'drink' (beer) cooler that was chilled by the main AC system. Gotta love that German prioritizing, and engineering...
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richfinn
Well-known member
I liked the 80s 6 cylinder BMWs (especially the M cars)
The E30 M3 4 cylinder, was always my favourite though
thanks to the British Touring Car Championship and European Tarmac Rallying, such a great platform for a competition car
The E30 M3 4 cylinder, was always my favourite though
thanks to the British Touring Car Championship and European Tarmac Rallying, such a great platform for a competition car